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Arroyo MVP; CC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME
Topic Started: Aug 13 2007, 07:47 AM (2,431 Views)
Panam
Sixth Man
Panam
Aug. 25 2007 06:49 AM
Hill2Howard
Aug. 24 2007 11:23 AM
Oh by the way 16 points 5 rbs 8 ast against panama. I figured noboby wanted to see that posted so here it is. I'm sure someone will find a way to twist that into a negative. LOL

Damn you Carlos........Damn you. Your making Dooling look bad.

And against Argenina Friday.....32 PT...7/17..20pts 1rbd and 4 asists

That is Argentina....sorry for the misspelling!
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MAGICmanSAM
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God is LOVE
Arroyo can be very good given the right situation. Hopefully SVG can maximize Arroyo's talent and use him at the right time.

Carlos is a streaky player, but so is 75% of the league, so it's a matter of using him at the right time and benching him and the right time as well.
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Pitbullz EP
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Magic in 5
I'm done with thia argument. I would be fine if they traded him, but to pretend that he's any worse a player than Dooling is not logical. They both bring something to the line up that can help this team. Looking at last years numbers these guys did basically the same thing. even with Arroyo's problems with Hill.
Damn this is hilarious!

Arroyo 20pts 4 ast in a loss to Argentina, What a horrible player :lol:
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TheFalcon
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Hill2Howard
Aug. 26 2007 07:33 AM
I'm done with thia argument. I would be fine if they traded him, but to pretend that he's any worse a player than Dooling is not logical. They both bring something to the line up that can help this team. Looking at last years numbers these guys did basically the same thing. even with Arroyo's problems with Hill.
Damn this is hilarious!

Arroyo 20pts 4 ast in a loss to Argentina, What a horrible player :lol:

Dooling and Arroyo averaged about the same numbers, as you've said many times. And, Dooling is clearly a much better defender than Arroyo. So, how is Arroyo not worse than Dooling?

And what's worst for Arroyo is that he got the same numbers as Dooling when his sole focus was on producing offense. Dooling goes into games with defense as his biggest contribution, and still managed to produce Arroyo's numbers.

I really don't hate Arroyo, and I think he is going to have a wonderful season this year under Van Gundy. I just think, at this point in time, Dooling is a better all around player.
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MAGICMANEVAN
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Hill2Howard
Aug. 26 2007 08:33 AM
I'm done with thia argument. I would be fine if they traded him, but to pretend that he's any worse a player than Dooling is not logical. They both bring something to the line up that can help this team. Looking at last years numbers these guys did basically the same thing. even with Arroyo's problems with Hill.
Damn this is hilarious!

Arroyo 20pts 4 ast in a loss to Argentina, What a horrible player :lol:

The stats dont tell everything and you know that. Anyone can look at stats and compare players but you know who is better and who isnt. Dooling is better than Arroyo and you ask everyone here and they will agree. He is worth more to this team also.. We know Arroyo would be traded first, based on talent, before Dooling. Come on you know that stats dont tell much only 50%, the other 50 you have to watch the games and know the impact the player has on the team.
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Pitbullz EP
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Magic in 5
TheFalcon
Aug. 26 2007 09:26 AM
Hill2Howard
Aug. 26 2007 07:33 AM
I'm done with thia argument.  I would be fine if they traded him, but to pretend that he's any worse a player than Dooling is not logical. They both bring something to the line up that can help this team. Looking at last years numbers these guys did basically the same thing. even with Arroyo's problems with Hill.
Damn this is hilarious!

Arroyo 20pts 4 ast in a loss to Argentina, What a horrible player :lol:

Dooling and Arroyo averaged about the same numbers, as you've said many times. And, Dooling is clearly a much better defender than Arroyo. So, how is Arroyo not worse than Dooling?

And what's worst for Arroyo is that he got the same numbers as Dooling when his sole focus was on producing offense. Dooling goes into games with defense as his biggest contribution, and still managed to produce Arroyo's numbers.

I really don't hate Arroyo, and I think he is going to have a wonderful season this year under Van Gundy. I just think, at this point in time, Dooling is a better all around player.

When your hired as an assistant and sitting next to SVG then I can believe you when you tell me what Arroyo's focus was, until that happends then I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with that. You or I have any clue what the coaches wanted Arroyo to do. and since your next response is going to probablly talk about how arroyo "did what he wanted to do, b/c he as an attitude problem," I'll address that ahead of time.

Nobody here liked coach Hill's style and probablly would've wanted the guys to do what ever the hell they wanted anyway, Now I have to agree that Arroyo's game was inconsistant and he uncharateristically took alot of shots. None the less he did show an ability to score the ball, which can't be denied. So what is everyone's hatred steming from? It sounds as if you expected him to carry the damn team.

I couldn't wait to get to this part. I can't believe someone used te words all around player in the same sentence as Keyon Dooling's name. The guy is an avg ball handler for a kid that has to run the pG on occasions, not to mention I tremble when Dooling has to run a play. He had 2 plays drawn up for him. that was the lower your shoulder and drive past a guy off a screen and hopefully get 2 or dump the ball to dwight and run back door for a hand off. Which I must admit worked very good alot of times. I pray to god that your not about to tell me that he can create shots for him self off the dribble better than (or has better handles or basketball IQ) Carlos. If that happends Ill have to go throw up.

It's not like there's alot to this guys game although his 3point shooting improved, at 32% along with his career 1 rpg and 1 apg does that really make him a more all around player than arroyo. Maybe slightly with is defensive ability. Or to benefit your side of the argument. but come on we're talking about the same player here. He's not going to be the one to put us over the top, and neither is arroyo. But there is no logical explanation why Dooling is a way better player than arroyo. It's just opinion. So whatever.
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Pitbullz EP
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Magic in 5
MAGICMANEVAN
Aug. 26 2007 10:09 AM
Hill2Howard
Aug. 26 2007 08:33 AM
I'm done with thia argument.  I would be fine if they traded him, but to pretend that he's any worse a player than Dooling is not logical. They both bring something to the line up that can help this team. Looking at last years numbers these guys did basically the same thing. even with Arroyo's problems with Hill.
Damn this is hilarious!

Arroyo 20pts 4 ast in a loss to Argentina, What a horrible player :lol:

The stats dont tell everything and you know that. Anyone can look at stats and compare players but you know who is better and who isnt. Dooling is better than Arroyo and you ask everyone here and they will agree. He is worth more to this team also.. We know Arroyo would be traded first, based on talent, before Dooling. Come on you know that stats dont tell much only 50%, the other 50 you have to watch the games and know the impact the player has on the team.

Impact? What impact did Dooling have on this team? How many games did you see any of these guys win for this team? And no stats don't always tell the story. but why is he way better? Because he can jump? He has the PG ability of Jon Koncak. He's just an energy player not a skill player sorry to burst everyones bubble, but the guy cant and hopefully wont run the point for this team ever again.

Give me his energy at the sg all night, then we wont have to worry about all this. Just Jameer and Carlos running the show.

And you guys still refuse to give him props for his good games. Unbel......well believable actually. Just keep proving my point guys bring it.
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TheFalcon
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Air Gortat
Hill2Howard
Aug. 27 2007 09:08 PM
TheFalcon
Aug. 26 2007 09:26 AM
Hill2Howard
Aug. 26 2007 07:33 AM
I'm done with thia argument.  I would be fine if they traded him, but to pretend that he's any worse a player than Dooling is not logical. They both bring something to the line up that can help this team. Looking at last years numbers these guys did basically the same thing. even with Arroyo's problems with Hill.
Damn this is hilarious!

Arroyo 20pts 4 ast in a loss to Argentina, What a horrible player :lol:

Dooling and Arroyo averaged about the same numbers, as you've said many times. And, Dooling is clearly a much better defender than Arroyo. So, how is Arroyo not worse than Dooling?

And what's worst for Arroyo is that he got the same numbers as Dooling when his sole focus was on producing offense. Dooling goes into games with defense as his biggest contribution, and still managed to produce Arroyo's numbers.

I really don't hate Arroyo, and I think he is going to have a wonderful season this year under Van Gundy. I just think, at this point in time, Dooling is a better all around player.

When your hired as an assistant and sitting next to SVG then I can believe you when you tell me what Arroyo's focus was, until that happends then I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with that. You or I have any clue what the coaches wanted Arroyo to do. and since your next response is going to probablly talk about how arroyo "did what he wanted to do, b/c he as an attitude problem," I'll address that ahead of time.

Nobody here liked coach Hill's style and probablly would've wanted the guys to do what ever the hell they wanted anyway, Now I have to agree that Arroyo's game was inconsistant and he uncharateristically took alot of shots. None the less he did show an ability to score the ball, which can't be denied. So what is everyone's hatred steming from? It sounds as if you expected him to carry the damn team.

I couldn't wait to get to this part. I can't believe someone used te words all around player in the same sentence as Keyon Dooling's name. The guy is an avg ball handler for a kid that has to run the pG on occasions, not to mention I tremble when Dooling has to run a play. He had 2 plays drawn up for him. that was the lower your shoulder and drive past a guy off a screen and hopefully get 2 or dump the ball to dwight and run back door for a hand off. Which I must admit worked very good alot of times. I pray to god that your not about to tell me that he can create shots for him self off the dribble better than (or has better handles or basketball IQ) Carlos. If that happends Ill have to go throw up.

It's not like there's alot to this guys game although his 3point shooting improved, at 32% along with his career 1 rpg and 1 apg does that really make him a more all around player than arroyo. Maybe slightly with is defensive ability. Or to benefit your side of the argument. but come on we're talking about the same player here. He's not going to be the one to put us over the top, and neither is arroyo. But there is no logical explanation why Dooling is a way better player than arroyo. It's just opinion. So whatever.

My point went right over your head. Do you agree, yes or no, that Arroyo is an offensive-minded player? Do you agree, yes or no, that Dooling is a defensive minded player? See, I consider these fairly basic assumptions. I'm not talking about attitude problems or anything like that, just basic mentalities. I would venture to say every poster on this board (minus you, possibly) would agree with me that Carlos is offensive minded, and Keyon is defensive minded. My point was that Dooling managed to get the same numbers Carlos did (as you are prone to flaunting, for some reason) without his focus being on the offensive side of the ball. You would think, if Carlos was as effective a point guard as you suggest, that he could average better numbers than our defensive specialist.

It was a small comment, but worth explaining for those who couldn't comprehend. But due to the fact that everything I say gets twisted into "you hate Carlos," I'm not going to respond to any further posts.
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Pitbullz EP
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Magic in 5
TheFalcon
Aug. 28 2007 06:47 AM
Hill2Howard
Aug. 27 2007 09:08 PM
TheFalcon
Aug. 26 2007 09:26 AM
Hill2Howard
Aug. 26 2007 07:33 AM
I'm done with thia argument.  I would be fine if they traded him, but to pretend that he's any worse a player than Dooling is not logical. They both bring something to the line up that can help this team. Looking at last years numbers these guys did basically the same thing. even with Arroyo's problems with Hill.
Damn this is hilarious!

Arroyo 20pts 4 ast in a loss to Argentina, What a horrible player :lol:

Dooling and Arroyo averaged about the same numbers, as you've said many times. And, Dooling is clearly a much better defender than Arroyo. So, how is Arroyo not worse than Dooling?

And what's worst for Arroyo is that he got the same numbers as Dooling when his sole focus was on producing offense. Dooling goes into games with defense as his biggest contribution, and still managed to produce Arroyo's numbers.

I really don't hate Arroyo, and I think he is going to have a wonderful season this year under Van Gundy. I just think, at this point in time, Dooling is a better all around player.

When your hired as an assistant and sitting next to SVG then I can believe you when you tell me what Arroyo's focus was, until that happends then I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with that. You or I have any clue what the coaches wanted Arroyo to do. and since your next response is going to probablly talk about how arroyo "did what he wanted to do, b/c he as an attitude problem," I'll address that ahead of time.

Nobody here liked coach Hill's style and probablly would've wanted the guys to do what ever the hell they wanted anyway, Now I have to agree that Arroyo's game was inconsistant and he uncharateristically took alot of shots. None the less he did show an ability to score the ball, which can't be denied. So what is everyone's hatred steming from? It sounds as if you expected him to carry the damn team.

I couldn't wait to get to this part. I can't believe someone used te words all around player in the same sentence as Keyon Dooling's name. The guy is an avg ball handler for a kid that has to run the pG on occasions, not to mention I tremble when Dooling has to run a play. He had 2 plays drawn up for him. that was the lower your shoulder and drive past a guy off a screen and hopefully get 2 or dump the ball to dwight and run back door for a hand off. Which I must admit worked very good alot of times. I pray to god that your not about to tell me that he can create shots for him self off the dribble better than (or has better handles or basketball IQ) Carlos. If that happends Ill have to go throw up.

It's not like there's alot to this guys game although his 3point shooting improved, at 32% along with his career 1 rpg and 1 apg does that really make him a more all around player than arroyo. Maybe slightly with is defensive ability. Or to benefit your side of the argument. but come on we're talking about the same player here. He's not going to be the one to put us over the top, and neither is arroyo. But there is no logical explanation why Dooling is a way better player than arroyo. It's just opinion. So whatever.

My point went right over your head. Do you agree, yes or no, that Arroyo is an offensive-minded player? Do you agree, yes or no, that Dooling is a defensive minded player? See, I consider these fairly basic assumptions. I'm not talking about attitude problems or anything like that, just basic mentalities. I would venture to say every poster on this board (minus you, possibly) would agree with me that Carlos is offensive minded, and Keyon is defensive minded. My point was that Dooling managed to get the same numbers Carlos did (as you are prone to flaunting, for some reason) without his focus being on the offensive side of the ball. You would think, if Carlos was as effective a point guard as you suggest, that he could average better numbers than our defensive specialist.

It was a small comment, but worth explaining for those who couldn't comprehend. But due to the fact that everything I say gets twisted into "you hate Carlos," I'm not going to respond to any further posts.

I would agree that Carlos is a better offensive player than Dooling and that Doolng is a better Defensive player. I would also have to say that, Like some of the other players on this team, that Hill did not use Carlos the right way.
At least that seems to be the excuse for all the other players mediocore performance last year, but for some reason it doesnt apply to Carlos. You're so called explanation proved my point that both guys bring something to the table.

I would think that if utilized correctly Carlos would be a better PG He doesn't have to prove anything else, dooling on the other hand is still going to be a high energy guy off the bench. Who will never more than average. Sorry. :rolleyes:

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Ben Q Rock
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3QC
Arroyo won't ever be more than average either. They each have their strengths, but neither of them are excellent.
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Pitbullz EP
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Magic in 5
Ben Q Rock
Aug. 29 2007 12:27 AM
Arroyo won't ever be more than average either. They each have their strengths, but neither of them are excellent.

Thank you Ben .....My point exactly!! :lol: Avg players that can help our team if used the right way. It's almost as if a weight has been lifted from my chest.

arroyo 12 pts against NBA talent I'd take that.
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Panam
Sixth Man
Hill2Howard
Aug. 30 2007 05:36 PM
Thank you Ben .....My point exactly!!  :lol:  Avg players that can help our team if used the right way. It's almost as if a weight has been lifted from my chest.

arroyo 12 pts against NBA talent I'd take that.

And....6 rebounds...only 1 turnover in 25 min playing time....how about that!!!
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Panam
Sixth Man
Panam
Aug. 30 2007 06:14 PM
Hill2Howard
Aug. 30 2007 05:36 PM
Thank you Ben .....My point exactly!!  :lol:  Avg players that can help our team if used the right way. It's almost as if a weight has been lifted from my chest.

arroyo 12 pts against NBA talent I'd take that.

And....6 rebounds...only 1 turnover in 25 min playing time....how about that!!!

30/08/2007
Puerto Rico 72 vs. Canada 66

Boxscores | Photo Gallery | Quotes

LAS VEGAS (2007 FIBA Americas Championship) - Carlos Arroyo's game-high 22 points, including four three-pointers carried surging Puerto Rico to a 72-66 victory over Canada in each team's Second Round Finale at the FIBA Americas Championships 2007.

With the win, Puerto Rico advances to face the winner of United States vs. Argentina.

Canada connected on just 6-of-23 from three-point range on a night when Puerto Rico connected on 12-of-30 triples.

David Thomas posted 18 points and Samuel Dalembert collected 18 rebounds in a losing effort for Canada.

Notes: Canada completed tournament play with an overall mark of 4-4

David Cooper
USA Basketball

Pretty good for an average PG.......and he is our PG!!!!
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Panam
Sixth Man
http://www.2007lasvegas.fibaamericas.com/ Here's FIBA link in case you guys are interested in stats.
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zuppafly
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Drafting Marbury + Foyle = Championship. \o/
Nice stats. I've been away in the last days and I'm now checking the stats and reports. Seems like Arroyo is doing a good job.
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