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Arroyo MVP; CC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME
Topic Started: Aug 13 2007, 07:47 AM (2,432 Views)
TheFalcon
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Air Gortat
Panam
Aug. 22 2007 05:44 AM
YES!!!! and it was Arroyo's fault for not following coach's instruction to foul Canada's player (PR had a foul to give)on an inbound pass with 0.4 sec to go in the game and PR ahead by 3...........instead Arroyo went for a steal ...failed to do do so... and Canada scored a 3pt desperation shot and won in overtime.....

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Way to go, Arroyo!

In all honesty, I wasn't even aware Canada had a team.
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Pitbullz EP
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Magic in 5
TheFalcon
Aug. 22 2007 06:16 AM
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Way to go, Arroyo!

In all honesty, I wasn't even aware Canada had a team.

Great.................. that one play will make him the worst PG in the NBA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

The only player that when he tries to play defense catches heat. Such hate!
For the record this isn't a knock on your post Falcon I was supposed to quate the other guy. and addressing all the haters!! :lol:
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Ben Q Rock
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3QC
Tonight against Mexico, Arroyo scored 4 points on 0-for-10 from the field.

I will say no more about the subject.
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Panam
Sixth Man
Ben Q Rock
Aug. 22 2007 09:22 PM
Tonight against Mexico, Arroyo scored 4 points on 0-for-10 from the field.

I will say no more about the subject.

Lets wait for the tournament to be over......if Arroyo doesn't play any better we are in deep trouble and the powers to be better start looking for another PG for the coming season........I don't hate Arroyo.......I defend him....and flew to Orlando just to attend the Majic vs Chicago game,March 8 2007, last year to see him play.........but I cannot close my eyes to his lack of dicipline when he doesn't follow coach's instructions........so I say so!!!!!!
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Pitbullz EP
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Magic in 5
Ben Q Rock
Aug. 22 2007 09:22 PM
Tonight against Mexico, Arroyo scored 4 points on 0-for-10 from the field.

I will say no more about the subject.

Billups had 5 points vs. Venezuala......God what a loser. I feel bad for Detroit. Speaking of judging a players entire career based on one game.....


It's very typical, People tend to focus on a particular players bad games in order to justify hating them for having a fan base and ignore the good games. If your going to judge his game based on his numbers in this contest, then compare him to Dooling's numbers last year which are basically the same, but for whatever reason dooling is more liked and it's okay if he has a bad game. Okay so the Dooling playes better defense, but if he is that much better than arroyo he should be averging more especially getting a little more PT, but he didn't. If this were Jameer he'd also be given a pass, or if Jameer was from the Dominican republic and had a dominican fan base he would be hated too. Ahhhhhh racial biased in sports I love it. Especially the denial that I assume is going to be posted very soon.

All three PG's (If thats what you want to call Dooling) have they're flaws yet guys like Jameer, or Dooling seem to be brought up less. Maybe if Arroyo didn't have a small country rooting for just him instead of the team he would be more liked.
Damn you Arroyo it's all your fault for being puerto rican.

Look the guy isn't the best player ever, but he's a good PG, put in a bad system under Hill. Nobody chooses to see that for fear that he will actually be good under SVG then who will you have to hate on? Gortat? b/c of his polish fans.
If he was horrible this hatred of him would be justified but there is nobody coming off the bench that has really done anymore or less than Arroyo. Give the guy a break.
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zuppafly
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Drafting Marbury + Foyle = Championship. \o/
It has nothing to do with being a Puerto Rican, please stop with that argument.
I saw B&B bash the hell out of Turk during last season, was it because he's turkish? No, it was because he sucked hard. People bash players who play badly and Arroyo played worse than Nelson or Dooling last season.
Did you saw Arroyo play against Mexico? I saw bits of the game (through streaming) and he was horrendous. Yes, it was just one game, but he couldn't make a good pass, he couldn't hit a single jumper and he showed the exact same flaws people got mad at last year.
Now, I do want to see what can he do under SVG coaching and I do believe he has some talent that can help us. But if he can't it a single shot in a team where he's supposed to be (by far) the best player against the Mexican team... things don't look so well so far.

But please, stop with that "you only bash him 'cause he's from Puerto Rico". It's ridiculous and annoying.
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TheFalcon
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Air Gortat
Why do you assume that we all dislike Arroyo because he is Peurto Rican? I have nothing, at all, against Peurto Ricans, hispanics, or anyone else. I'm sure most of the other posters feel the same way. If anything, the fact that Arroyo has a large Peurto Rican fan base works in his favor. I love the energy his fans bring to the game, the tickets they buy, and the increased attention paid to the Magic.

Ethnicity aside, I still don't "hate" Arroyo. His particular style of play is not my cup of tea, if you will, but I am always willing to give him a fair shot. At points last year, and at many points in the past, he has been horrible. At many points, he has been good. Lately, however, it seems that he has been bad more often than he has been good. The fact that Arroyo is not playing well against teams from Canada and Mexico is never a good sign.

We can debate his value to the team forever (and I'm always willing to), but please stop trying to work the race card into the argument. I can't stand Garrity either, but it's not because he's Irish, it's because I don't like him as a player. Same goes for Arroyo and several other players over the years. Tim Duncan has a huge Caribbean fan base, yet nobody hates him. Steve Nash has a huge Canadian fan base, yet nobody hates him. Tony Parker has a huge French fan base, yet nobody hates him. I could go on and on. Your argument for racial biases against players with ethnic fan bases is completely illogical, and rather insulting.

Just accept that people criticize him because he isn't very good, and stop trying to make it more than it really is.
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Pitbullz EP
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Magic in 5
First of all I wasn't talking to all of you so calm down.

Second, I was talking about hating on him b/c he has a fan base that aren't fans of the team, but fans of Carlos, and that there are people that think he's such a great player b/c he's puerto rican. I wasn't implying that any of you are racist so please spare me the lectures.

I understand that Carlos had bad games last year, but nobody talks about his rift with Hill and how similar it was with his problems with Sloan, and how that probablly affected him last year. There is just so much more wrong with this team than Carlos having an off year in a crappy system. He doesn't play well in a half court offense, and thats okay. It doesnt make him any worse of a player.


The only thing I accept is that he put up the same numbers that Dooling did, So Dooling isn't very good either.

Comments like this from DHoward
Quote:
 
first of all...you can't tell me my opinion is wrong...its an opinion
and second off..no i'm not wrong. arroyo is still an idiot ball hog, ball hacker upper (theres a good word...hacker upper) piece of crap. :] have a good day


Don't tell me thats based on his game.

I just don't understand how someone so "awful" could have this much impact on the outcome of a season or a team. He's is supposedly such a bad player yet some people wanted to Deiner to actually play, what a joke. Where does this come from , it makes no sense.
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Pitbullz EP
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Magic in 5
zuppafly
Aug. 23 2007 10:45 AM
It has nothing to do with being a Puerto Rican, please stop with that argument.
I saw B&B bash the hell out of Turk during last season, was it because he's turkish? No, it was because he sucked hard. People bash players who play badly and Arroyo played worse than Nelson or Dooling last season.
Did you saw Arroyo play against Mexico? I saw bits of the game (through streaming) and he was horrendous. Yes, it was just one game, but he couldn't make a good pass, he couldn't hit a single jumper and he showed the exact same flaws people got mad at last year.
Now, I do want to see what can he do under SVG coaching and I do believe he has some talent that can help us. But if he can't it a single shot in a team where he's supposed to be (by far) the best player against the Mexican team... things don't look so well so far.

But please, stop with that "you only bash him 'cause he's from Puerto Rico". It's ridiculous and annoying.

People are allowed to have bad games right? Or is that not acceptable because it's Carlos. AGAIN Billups had 5 points against Venezuala? What a mediocore player. I've decided based on that game. Billups career is fluke. :yes:

It's not a question of if. He will be better player under SVG if he implements an uptempo offense, and Arroyo steps up.
Why because he's an uptempo basketball player. See how easy that is. Look at the whole picture not one game. Realize that not all players fit in ANY system. Only great players IMO can do that and Carlos is not great.
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zuppafly
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Drafting Marbury + Foyle = Championship. \o/
You commit a mistake in your judgement of Billups. You are talking about a one time champion, finals MVP, unanimously considered one of the best 8if not the best) PG playing in a slow half-court offense. He has a history behind him that allows him to have some bad games once in a while without people doubting his value.
On the other hand is Arroyo. Couldn't play well with Sloan, couldn't play well with Brown and couldn't play well with Hill. Well, I won't say it was his fault with Hill... I mean, it's Brian Hill's offense we're taliking here. But the fact is that Arroyo has had many more downs then ups in his career.
As you said, one game means nothing, but when was the last good NBA game from Arroyo? Lets pick up his last 4 career years and compare the ups and downs. You got the point.
And I sincerely hope you're right about him having a good year under SVG coaching. I'm also expecting all of our PGs to have a much better year than last due to the change in offensive style, but that doesn't change the fact that Arroyo is the weakest of our current 3 PGs and that if 99% of the fans were to choose which PG they would trade right now it would be Arroyo. And that says it all.
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Panam
Sixth Man
zuppafly
Aug. 23 2007 06:05 PM
You commit a mistake in your judgement of Billups. You are talking about a one time champion, finals MVP, unanimously considered one of the best 8if not the best) PG playing in a slow half-court offense. He has a history behind him that allows him to have some bad games once in a while without people doubting his value.
On the other hand is Arroyo. Couldn't play well with Sloan, couldn't play well with Brown and couldn't play well with Hill. Well, I won't say it was his fault with Hill... I mean, it's Brian Hill's offense we're taliking here. But the fact is that Arroyo has had many more downs then ups in his career.
As you said, one game means nothing, but when was the last good NBA game from Arroyo? Lets pick up his last 4 career years and compare the ups and downs. You got the point.
And I sincerely hope you're right about him having a good year under SVG coaching. I'm also expecting all of our PGs to have a much better year than last due to the change in offensive style, but that doesn't change the fact that Arroyo is the weakest of our current 3 PGs and that if 99% of the fans were to choose which PG they would trade right now it would be Arroyo. And that says it all.

You have right to your opinion....and I have a right to mine!!!!!I do not agree at all with your opinion about Arroyo...... with coach Sloan....as a matter of fact he played for him after Malone and Stockton retired and Utah was supposed to be last in his division,,,,,,Arroyo playing PG for Sloan had Utah within 1 game of qualifying for the playoffs that year..........and as far as Brown is concerned he said to the national media ,after Detroit loosing the 7th game of the playoff against San Antonio that his only regret was and I am quoting him "my only regret was that I did not give Arroyo more playing time"As far as BH everybody knows what happened.....so if you are not properly informed.......dont give us your opinion.
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zuppafly
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Drafting Marbury + Foyle = Championship. \o/
So, you start saying I have the right to my opinion and then you end up saying "don't give us your opinion".

Nice.

And from what you say in your post Detroit lost the finals to SA because of Arroyo not playing enough and he and only he carried the entire Utah team to an almost presence in the playoffs and you didn't mention the fact that he was traded from Utah because they were a bit sick of watching the same mistakes from him that we are.
Ok. There's no use in keeping this argument.
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Pitbullz EP
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Magic in 5
zuppafly
Aug. 23 2007 06:05 PM
You commit a mistake in your judgement of Billups. You are talking about a one time champion, finals MVP, unanimously considered one of the best 8if not the best) PG playing in a slow half-court offense. He has a history behind him that allows him to have some bad games once in a while without people doubting his value.
On the other hand is Arroyo. Couldn't play well with Sloan, couldn't play well with Brown and couldn't play well with Hill. Well, I won't say it was his fault with Hill... I mean, it's Brian Hill's offense we're taliking here. But the fact is that Arroyo has had many more downs then ups in his career.
As you said, one game means nothing, but when was the last good NBA game from Arroyo? Lets pick up his last 4 career years and compare the ups and downs. You got the point.
And I sincerely hope you're right about him having a good year under SVG coaching. I'm also expecting all of our PGs to have a much better year than last due to the change in offensive style, but that doesn't change the fact that Arroyo is the weakest of our current 3 PGs and that if 99% of the fans were to choose which PG they would trade right now it would be Arroyo. And that says it all.

:lol: I think you guys are misunderstanding me here
Carlos is a career backup Pg I understand that, I do however think he's better than most here think he is.

I know that most fans here would trade this guy instead of the other 2 pg's on this team. (If you count Dooling as a PG) but comparing Dooling and Arroyo who avg the same numbers, how does that make sense? Especially when Dooling can't run an offense. You can't sit there and tell me that Dooling is a good PG and Carlos is not. that's just retarded. Dooling has never been a real PG and Carlos has always been a pass first play making PG. How can you deny that when he's been that his entire career and you've actually seen him do that here when orlando was a successful uptempo team at the begining of the season. For christ's sake the guy avg 10 ppg in 27 games while playing here. Off the bench!! but of course we stay away from that b/c that would totally end this argument right here. :lol:

I'm also convinced that b/c he has a fan base that aren't Magic fans, that it influences alot of peoples thoughts about the guy. I know people are "sensitive" about the subject so I'll leave that one alone. I can't stand the denial. ANYWAY!

First of all Arroyo played ok as a starter in Utah under Sloan, Hill ran a half court offense like sloan. How do you not see pattern here. It's really not that hard, and The people that are saying he struggled under Brown are the same ones that said Brown didn't give Ariza a chance. Who doesn't struggle under Brown. Look at the entire knicks squad. That's not an argument.

I by all means can and will doubt Billups value based on one game and pick apart why he struggled, when he does struggle, if a guy like Arroyo's career can be so can a guy like Billups, Who can tell me my opinion is wrong?

How the hell does arroyo have "many" more downs in his career than ups. he's a career 7ppg 3apg player, which he did here.Dooling is a career 6ppg scorer and pretty much nothing else. What has Dooling done to make him THAT much better than Arroyo? A better defender? OKay, Carlos is a better PG. You guys know Carlos's game and know that he's always been a pass first PG.

He has a bad run in a poorly run offense and now he's the worst PG in the league. What doesnt make sense is that most in here agreed that our PG rotation struggled under Hill. But one person makes a comment about how well Carlos is doing in some no name tourney, and everyone hates on the guy. It's like nobody wants him to do well. If Ariza did that everyone would be talking about him being a starter :lol: How do you talk about a guy like he's the downfall of the whole organization He's a second string PG avg 7 PPG,
Sorry about the book :)
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Pitbullz EP
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Magic in 5
Oh by the way 16 points 5 rbs 8 ast against panama. I figured noboby wanted to see that posted so here it is. I'm sure someone will find a way to twist that into a negative. LOL

Damn you Carlos........Damn you. Your making Dooling look bad.
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Panam
Sixth Man
Hill2Howard
Aug. 24 2007 11:23 AM
Oh by the way 16 points 5 rbs 8 ast against panama. I figured noboby wanted to see that posted so here it is. I'm sure someone will find a way to twist that into a negative. LOL

Damn you Carlos........Damn you. Your making Dooling look bad.

And against Argenina Friday.....32 PT...7/17..20pts 1rbd and 4 asists
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