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Lakers @ Magic Thread; 12/27, 7 PM, Amway Arena
Topic Started: Dec 24 2006, 10:50 PM (2,033 Views)
Magic333
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McGrady and Howard... What could have been
Brutal, your about to lose your argument. Jameer Nelson did not make us lose this game. Yes he did allow Smush Parker score 18 points in the 3rd quater. But happened in the other 3 quaters. Parker was only held for 2 points in all 3 quaters. what the hell.

Still in the 4th quater, we were only down by 6 points. You make it seem like Jameer caused us to lose the game. But you fail to Mention how the Magic Team failed to score at all or stop any of Lakers roll players. Besides Smush Parkers 20 points. Other players killed the Magic. Walton, Brown, Radmanovic, Bynumm, Cook. Suppose it's Jameers fault that he couldn't gaurd all those players at once huh?

The Lakers Team killed the Orlando Magic, not the Orlando Jameer's. Also us not able to score killed the Magic. What else could Jameer do to make you happy? He is only one player. The team has to play better. Because this is how this team wins, by working together. That's how this team one at the beginning of the season. Everyone was playing well. Unlike now were a few players are only playing good. Brutal, Get your fact's right before you start talking.
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Cyclonus
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What I dont understand is why we continue to run pick and rolls with Battie and Howard you need to set picks with shooters like Hedo or Reddick so they can actually shoot if they dont rotate.
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magiclive
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#1 Magic Fan
i did promise everyone here that the back and forth wars between members would stop. so im not going to get involved. all i am going to say is that jameer had 7 assists to 3 turnovers. a solid assist to turnover ratio. a stat that some people have been complaining about with jameer. now that he did well in that category, some people on this board find something else to blame him on. this loss didnt come from jameer. if you think it was all about him, then i think you are biased. dwight howard is still not the player that some of us think he is and he still has a lot of growing to do. i think this is a really solid team and once howard becomes the player that everyone expects him to be, then i think we can start getting consistant wins.

howard does the following that contribute to this teams losses:
1. his turnovers
2. dribbling the ball in traffic constantly and getting stripped or forcing him to shoot a bad shot
3. lack of low post moves

i know that hes still young. thats why i keep saying to give this team some time. we are a young team and are not going to go from a 36-46 season to a 50 win season with the same roster. its very unlikely. i think we will have a better record than last year and we will continue to grow. yes, we are playing terrible right now, but lets see what hill does in the next few games. you can call it an excuse, but this teams youth is whats hurting us. the only cure is time, not trades.
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magiclive
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#1 Magic Fan
bad game. hopefully we can bounce back. good night all.

btw, does anyone here have metal gear solid for psp? if so, id love to play online. i just got the game today
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Keeping it real
Sixth Man
Here is my take:

I think that the real problem is that every team in the NBA are taking us seriously now, since we had a hot start. At the beggining of the season there were teams taking us for granted. Now they Know that they have to play good basketball in order to beat us, which is apparently working for them.

I don't want to point finger at anybody for the continuous losses. It's not Jameer's fault, Arroyo's etc... Bottom line is that we need to make new plays, and run a different kind of offense, and that will be BHILL job for the next few games. Other teams seems to be reading our offense quite well which is resulting on a high turnover game. Somehow we have to incorporate Bogans and Hedo into the rotation, as well as Ariza.


Once we get Hedo going with his 3's, it will spread out the floor, and will make easier for others, because even if he doesn't make them it pose a threat on the floor. But first we have to get going.

We need to find some answers for oue new team image. Our new image is that we are a hot young team, and NBA teams are stopping us, and we need an answer for that:

The answer in my opinion is to set new offensive plays/

What y'all think.
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JAnthony019
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Sixth Man
Good game guys! Why Jameer was on the bench for that long in the 4th is beyond me :/
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Brutalfacts
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All-Star
You know I just love needling you guys with the Jameer stuff, and I am no fan of Jameer but last night was not his alone. The third quarter defense against Parker was an total embarressment, but he did move the ball a bit in the first half and take the ball to the basket from time to time, in some ways it was his best game in a long time.

This is a very forgiving board with low expectations. I am not forgiving and have high expectations in just about everything I do. This may not be a 50 win team, but it should be close. So far on the board I see its the coarch, rotations, plays, etc that breed the Magic problems. Here is my take...

I will quit beating a dead horse, but our front two PG's are not a good fit for the rest of the talent. I find it interesting that the last two Magic wins came with Travis Diener playing big minutes including strong 4th quarters. Is that lost on everybody?

Dwight Howard needs to find a 10-15 jumper to be truly effective on the offensive end. Its no secret you play the Magic inside out. Dwight will not find that shot overnight, therefore this team must stop trying to feed him the ball when he does not have position. Its like this Dwight, you work hard and get on the low block, you get rewarded, if not the offense goes elsewhere and you work on rebounding. If I see him put the ball on the floor in traffic one more time (which I will, again and again) I will probably throw up.

This team does not control tempo. We could point the fingers as to why but then I sound like a broken record. Some suggested that the team run more, I suggest that the personell in the backcourt are not running type players. Ariza is, the team should rebound well enough to be effective running the court, Hill could be effective though his age and health would probably mean fewer effective minutes. Can you honestly say the rest of the "smalls" have a game that is condusive to running?

This team plays best when it plays defense, and keeps scores in the 80's. Last night the defense was bad, at times real bad. If this team does not defend, the rest really does not matter.

I say this still not happy about the drafting of Reddick, and still not convinced that he will be any kind of NBA player other than a Jason Kapono typs shooter, but its time to get him in the games on a regular basis. This team needs to spread the floor in the half court given the limitations of the playmakers. Perhaps JJ surprises me, but at the very least, short term he will allow the bigs to operate more freely. This will be tough, if Diener and JJ are dressed, who goes inactive? Lots of egos at play here. Its time however.

I fully expect the Magic to lay another egg in Washington, and perhaps bounce back with Miami. I will be interested to see if at least Diener is dressed Friday night. Since this team cannot control tempo it will take at least 100 points to stay in the game vs the Wiz, and 100 points are not going to happen unless we see some rotation changes.

Brutal
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Guardian
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Brutalfacts
Dec. 28 2006 08:30 AM
You know I just love needling you guys with the Jameer stuff, and I am no fan of Jameer but last night was not his alone. The third quarter defense against Parker was an total embarressment, but he did move the ball a bit in the first half and take the ball to the basket from time to time, in some ways it was his best game in a long time.

This is a very forgiving board with low expectations. I am not forgiving and have high expectations in just about everything I do. This may not be a 50 win team, but it should be close. So far on the board I see its the coarch, rotations, plays, etc that breed the Magic problems. Here is my take...

I will quit beating a dead horse, but our front two PG's are not a good fit for the rest of the talent. I find it interesting that the last two Magic wins came with Travis Diener playing big minutes including strong 4th quarters. Is that lost on everybody?

Dwight Howard needs to find a 10-15 jumper to be truly effective on the offensive end. Its no secret you play the Magic inside out. Dwight will not find that shot overnight, therefore this team must stop trying to feed him the ball when he does not have position. Its like this Dwight, you work hard and get on the low block, you get rewarded, if not the offense goes elsewhere and you work on rebounding. If I see him put the ball on the floor in traffic one more time (which I will, again and again) I will probably throw up.

This team does not control tempo. We could point the fingers as to why but then I sound like a broken record. Some suggested that the team run more, I suggest that the personell in the backcourt are not running type players. Ariza is, the team should rebound well enough to be effective running the court, Hill could be effective though his age and health would probably mean fewer effective minutes. Can you honestly say the rest of the "smalls" have a game that is condusive to running?

This team plays best when it plays defense, and keeps scores in the 80's. Last night the defense was bad, at times real bad. If this team does not defend, the rest really does not matter.

I say this still not happy about the drafting of Reddick, and still not convinced that he will be any kind of NBA player other than a Jason Kapono typs shooter, but its time to get him in the games on a regular basis. This team needs to spread the floor in the half court given the limitations of the playmakers. Perhaps JJ surprises me, but at the very least, short term he will allow the bigs to operate more freely. This will be tough, if Diener and JJ are dressed, who goes inactive? Lots of egos at play here. Its time however.

I fully expect the Magic to lay another egg in Washington, and perhaps bounce back with Miami. I will be interested to see if at least Diener is dressed Friday night. Since this team cannot control tempo it will take at least 100 points to stay in the game vs the Wiz, and 100 points are not going to happen unless we see some rotation changes.

Brutal

Very well said.
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melbournemagic
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If we keep loosing like this I hope Hill mixes up the lineup. Diener (and maybe JJ) and more minutes for Bo could be part of the answer. I don't think its that teams are now taking us seriously...its because team scouts are doing thier job. Thats wy things are predictable. I can see things like these on an opponents scouting report:
1) Be physical with Howard, don't let him get in the paint, hard double team
2) Control the offensive glass
3) If all else fails play ZONE defense

So far Hill hasn't figured out the answer yet and its very frustrating. I can see the players getting frustrated as well on simple low post entry plays or pick and rolls. Everything about the offense needs some improvement. Take for example SETTING A SCREEN: Did anybody notice how wide- open guys were when Bo Outlaw sets a screen? THATS THE WAY ITS DONE. Seems like when Howard or Darko set one they are either letting the guy through too early wanting to get set for the rebound or not in position before the cutter moves (which is his fault). This is just ONE area that is pretty obvious. All the little things add up and there you have our sucky offense.


AND HOW COME WE CAN SEE IT BUT BRIAN HILL CAN'T????

"Like many players, a grim Coach Brian Hill had no explanation for his team's slide."

"I just don't think, mentally, our guys just are playing with the same sharpness, energy and focus. I don't have an answer," he said. "It's just something we have to get back."

"With their offense struggling and starters Hill, Howard and Nelson out of the game, Coach Brian Hill was asked if he regretted not getting them back in the fray earlier to perhaps turn the tide.
"I'll have to look at the game to see if that was a deciding thing," Hill said. "I had to get Dwight some rest. . . . The main thing is that we're not a very good team right now."
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dhoward541524
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Love_Is_The_Movement
i was at the game and i have never seen so many fans leave with 4 minutes left in a game.
the big thing tonight was that i thought substituting, once again, was so horrible. Brian Hill always seems to be late on his substituting. i don't really know how to explain it. Also i think both Arroyo and Dooling have been playing like complete crap as of late. hill shouldn't of sat Deiner out. we need him and his 3 right now! brian hill needs to stop being a moron.
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NYCMagicFan
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Old School
Staff Members
How the hell did they let Smush Parker dominate them in the 3rd quarter?? Kobe didnt even score in the 3rd, but Smush Parker scores 18?? Unacceptable!
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Magic333
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McGrady and Howard... What could have been
Brutalfacts
Dec. 28 2006 08:30 AM
You know I just love needling you guys with the Jameer stuff, and I am no fan of Jameer but last night was not his alone. The third quarter defense against Parker was an total embarressment, but he did move the ball a bit in the first half and take the ball to the basket from time to time, in some ways it was his best game in a long time.

This is a very forgiving board with low expectations. I am not forgiving and have high expectations in just about everything I do. This may not be a 50 win team, but it should be close. So far on the board I see its the coarch, rotations, plays, etc that breed the Magic problems. Here is my take...

I will quit beating a dead horse, but our front two PG's are not a good fit for the rest of the talent. I find it interesting that the last two Magic wins came with Travis Diener playing big minutes including strong 4th quarters. Is that lost on everybody?

Dwight Howard needs to find a 10-15 jumper to be truly effective on the offensive end. Its no secret you play the Magic inside out. Dwight will not find that shot overnight, therefore this team must stop trying to feed him the ball when he does not have position. Its like this Dwight, you work hard and get on the low block, you get rewarded, if not the offense goes elsewhere and you work on rebounding. If I see him put the ball on the floor in traffic one more time (which I will, again and again) I will probably throw up.

This team does not control tempo. We could point the fingers as to why but then I sound like a broken record. Some suggested that the team run more, I suggest that the personell in the backcourt are not running type players. Ariza is, the team should rebound well enough to be effective running the court, Hill could be effective though his age and health would probably mean fewer effective minutes. Can you honestly say the rest of the "smalls" have a game that is condusive to running?

This team plays best when it plays defense, and keeps scores in the 80's. Last night the defense was bad, at times real bad. If this team does not defend, the rest really does not matter.

I say this still not happy about the drafting of Reddick, and still not convinced that he will be any kind of NBA player other than a Jason Kapono typs shooter, but its time to get him in the games on a regular basis. This team needs to spread the floor in the half court given the limitations of the playmakers. Perhaps JJ surprises me, but at the very least, short term he will allow the bigs to operate more freely. This will be tough, if Diener and JJ are dressed, who goes inactive? Lots of egos at play here. Its time however.

I fully expect the Magic to lay another egg in Washington, and perhaps bounce back with Miami. I will be interested to see if at least Diener is dressed Friday night. Since this team cannot control tempo it will take at least 100 points to stay in the game vs the Wiz, and 100 points are not going to happen unless we see some rotation changes.

Brutal

I shouldn't take anything from Travis. But look. Diener was playing againts 2 teams who are having a hard time to score. The Hornets. They don't have Bobby Jackson, David West, and Peja. They alll account for 50 of New Orleans points. It's not like their going to blow anyone out of building without them. But they are a low scoring team without them. Them struggling to score, and them not having their 3 big guys, and us able to win low scoring games. we were able to beat them.

Cleveland also is a struggling offensive team. They can't score also. and the reasons I stated with new Orleans they are not able to score. and we are able to win low scorin games of course.

not to knock Travis. But this is true.
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Guardian
Rookie
It doesn't matter. Our strong point is not defense at the guard position. Defense is about moving your feet anyway. Ask Mugsy Bogues who was pest on defense and had absolutely no height. Travis can shoot on anyone, period, and his defense is as good as Jameer or Carlos. I'm telling you Brian needs to somehow incorporate both JJ and Denier into the rotation to get us some shooting in there.
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efenell
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DA - Magic Legend
Can somebody make me a 'Fire Hill' sig???
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Brutalfacts
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All-Star
efenell
Dec. 28 2006 06:28 PM
Can somebody make me a 'Fire Hill' sig???

Boy....how quickly they turn. Last month he is coach of the year material around here, now he is garbage. Brian Hill will not be going anywhere, he has the full support of ownership and the GM. And Brian may not be done tinkering, he has played a pure shooting non defensive SF before (Dennis Scott), he has not be afraid to give minutes to players that earn them even if it means benching a supposed fixture (Darrell Royal), and he is not afraid to piss off players if need be (the classless Penny Hardaway saga, Penny won the battle but lost the war).

If we see the same problems with the same personell two weeks from now I will be surprised. A major message has to be sent, and I suspect Brian will send it. You know who I would tab as the "messenger" but lets see who BHill chooses to use.

Brutal
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