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Orlando at Cleveland Thread; 12/23, 7:30 pm
Topic Started: Dec 23 2006, 05:54 PM (2,155 Views)
magiclive
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#1 Magic Fan
Magic333
Dec. 23 2006 10:35 PM
Keeping it real
Dec. 23 2006 10:16 PM
Few things:

-either Jameer is still hurt

-or didn't care about the game tonight

-he does not play with any sense of urgency

If he is a so called leader, then take it upon yourself and tell BHill that you are not 100% to play becasue of the injury.  That to me is selfish, and not a leader.  Arroyo needs to develop  his confidence in crunch time to keep him in the court.  I see more potential in Arroyo than Jameer, however Diener is playing good ball as well.  Will see what happens.

Wait a minute sir.... He wasn't being selfish, he wanted to take the shots for the Magic to get back into the game. He was the one taking the shots. Leaders lead their team to victory, and that's what Jameer has been doing for the past years. I saw Jameer trying to do that in the end with those shots he took. I didn't see anyone else doing that. That isn't being selfish, that's just him leading his team. And this is the few times I seen him fail to be clutch in the end.

I like Arroyo. But Arroyo is no scorer Jameer is. He is an average scorer at best.

we hear all the time about players that are "fighting through the injury" and "playing with pain." those players are considered leaders and heroes, even though i find that idea silly. and if jameer was in fact playing through pain (which i dont believe he was), why isnt he considered a leader? sounds like we are flip flopping a bit.
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MAGICMANEVAN
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Magic333
Dec. 23 2006 10:35 PM
Keeping it real
Dec. 23 2006 10:16 PM
Few things:

-either Jameer is still hurt

-or didn't care about the game tonight

-he does not play with any sense of urgency

If he is a so called leader, then take it upon yourself and tell BHill that you are not 100% to play becasue of the injury.  That to me is selfish, and not a leader.  Arroyo needs to develop  his confidence in crunch time to keep him in the court.  I see more potential in Arroyo than Jameer, however Diener is playing good ball as well.  Will see what happens.

Wait a minute sir.... He wasn't being selfish, he wanted to take the shots for the Magic to get back into the game. He was the one taking the shots. Leaders lead their team to victory, and that's what Jameer has been doing for the past years. I saw Jameer trying to do that in the end with those shots he took. I didn't see anyone else doing that. That isn't being selfish, that's just him leading his team. And this is the few times I seen him fail to be clutch in the end.

I like Arroyo. But Arroyo is no scorer Jameer is. He is an average scorer at best.

I totally agree with you and magiclive. Jameer is anything but hurt or not caring or trying. In fact, i think he did a better job tonight than his stats show. He took the big shots when others passed it up. Hes not afriad to take crunch time shots, even if they dont go in.

Arroyo is not better than Jameer. We know that and so does B-Hill. Ill prove it to you... HE STARTS OVER ARROYO. And B-Hill wants to keep his job so he will put the BEST product on the floor to start every night. We know that is Jameer.
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TheFalcon
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Air Gortat
Before the season, if I was told that the Magic would have injuries to Hill, Bogans, Turkoglu, and Nelson, but would still be sitting at 17-12, I would be thrilled. Some people need here need to settle down a bit. We are a young team, and if you think we are not going to struggle, then maybe you are watching the wrong sport.

Brutal, as much as I enjoy reading your opinions, I can't take them seriously anymore. It doesn't matter who we played or why we lost, I know before I come on here that it is somehow Jameer's fault. We score 81 points - it's Jameer's fault. We score 108 - it's still Jameer's fault. Part of this loss can be accredited to Jameer, I'll agree. But I didn't think the loss to the Hornets had anything to do with Jameer. Your argument on that thread was so inane, I couldn't even muster up the energy to respond to it.

I will briefly, here, however. You repeatedly said that Jameer wasn't moving the ball. However, your only support of this is that he didn't pile up assists, like Kidd or Nash. But getting assists isn't the same thing as moving the ball. Each trip down the court, he got the ball into a rotation. He was not always the one making the pass into scoring position - but he was definetly moving the ball. Which is why our starters had 15 assists (to the bench's 5). Grant Hill had 7 assists, Ariza 4, and Howard 2. If the ball wasn't moving, our forwards certainly wouldn't be getting assists.

Jameer had a bad game tonight, as I expected. Playing the second game after a back to back after coming back from injury is never easy. His shot was off, going 1-8, and he only had 4 assists. I can understand blaming him for this loss (if you are into placing blame on one player, which I am not). But blaming him for every loss really puts a stain on your self righteous attire.

By the way, I love your signature. Less Jameer equals more wins. I have to agree, we were outstanding without him. Averaged a whopping 85 points a game, and loss to the Raptors (without Chris Bosh) and Bobcats (7-19). In the loss to the Raptors without Jameer, our team had a total of 10 assists (Dwight led us with 3 assists), but I'm assuming that's what you want. In the next game without Jameer, we had 14 assists (led by Milicic). Again, I'm assuming that's the kind of offense you want, right? Less Jameer equals an offense that couldn't outscore my highschool team. 13 total assists the next game, and 15 the next. That's an average of 13 a game. The last game before Nelson left, we had 18. His first game back we had 19. The next game - 18.

For someone who seems particularly interested in assist numbers, I'm suprised you want Jameer out. Statistics seem to show that the ball moves better with him in the game. If you have stats to support your argument, I would love to hear them. If your just want to say "I know everything because I'm a genius, blah blah blah," then save your breath. Just so you know, I don't have nearly as high of a regard for you as you do for yourself (or any 50 year olds on message boards, for that matter). If you want to have an intelligent converstion about why you think the ball moves better without Jameer, then I'm all ears. If you want to preach on your own self worth, then take it elsewhere.
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Magic.Man
Legend
We can all talk about Jameer missing his shots, which he did, but we cannot blame him entirely for this loss. They had 23 offensive rebounds!
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BRINGthaMAGIC
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All-Star
TheFalcon
Dec. 24 2006 08:18 AM
Before the season, if I was told that the Magic would have injuries to Hill, Bogans, Turkoglu, and Nelson, but would still be sitting at 17-12, I would be thrilled. Some people need here need to settle down a bit. We are a young team, and if you think we are not going to struggle, then maybe you are watching the wrong sport.

Brutal, as much as I enjoy reading your opinions, I can't take them seriously anymore. It doesn't matter who we played or why we lost, I know before I come on here that it is somehow Jameer's fault. We score 81 points - it's Jameer's fault. We score 108 - it's still Jameer's fault. Part of this loss can be accredited to Jameer, I'll agree. But I didn't think the loss to the Hornets had anything to do with Jameer. Your argument on that thread was so inane, I couldn't even muster up the energy to respond to it.

I will briefly, here, however. You repeatedly said that Jameer wasn't moving the ball. However, your only support of this is that he didn't pile up assists, like Kidd or Nash. But getting assists isn't the same thing as moving the ball. Each trip down the court, he got the ball into a rotation. He was not always the one making the pass into scoring position - but he was definetly moving the ball. Which is why our starters had 15 assists (to the bench's 5). Grant Hill had 7 assists, Ariza 4, and Howard 2. If the ball wasn't moving, our forwards certainly wouldn't be getting assists.

Jameer had a bad game tonight, as I expected. Playing the second game after a back to back after coming back from injury is never easy. His shot was off, going 1-8, and he only had 4 assists. I can understand blaming him for this loss (if you are into placing blame on one player, which I am not). But blaming him for every loss really puts a stain on your self righteous attire.

By the way, I love your signature. Less Jameer equals more wins. I have to agree, we were outstanding without him. Averaged a whopping 85 points a game, and loss to the Raptors (without Chris Bosh) and Bobcats (7-19). In the loss to the Raptors without Jameer, our team had a total of 10 assists (Dwight led us with 3 assists), but I'm assuming that's what you want. In the next game without Jameer, we had 14 assists (led by Milicic). Again, I'm assuming that's the kind of offense you want, right? Less Jameer equals an offense that couldn't outscore my highschool team. 13 total assists the next game, and 15 the next. That's an average of 13 a game. The last game before Nelson left, we had 18. His first game back we had 19. The next game - 18.

For someone who seems particularly interested in assist numbers, I'm suprised you want Jameer out. Statistics seem to show that the ball moves better with him in the game. If you have stats to support your argument, I would love to hear them. If your just want to say "I know everything because I'm a genius, blah blah blah," then save your breath. Just so you know, I don't have nearly as high of a regard for you as you do for yourself (or any 50 year olds on message boards, for that matter). If you want to have an intelligent converstion about why you think the ball moves better without Jameer, then I'm all ears. If you want to preach on your own self worth, then take it elsewhere.

same thing i said about arroyo when he started. in his first game as a starter he had 22 point (9-17) i would say he shot the ball to much but no one was was hiting thier shots we shot 37% some said arroyo did not move the ball, so started to keep track of the movement of the ball next game he started he passed the ball 39 time all before the shot clock go to 17 and only got the ball back 5 times we had the most TO in that game he only had 3 out of the 23 that were made. now the way we play the game if shooting 49 to 50 something % from the field our ast will go up but not allways for the pg b/c they pass the ball to the side and that person is the one that gets the ast giving it to the post. now arroyo had one very bad game where he went 0-4 only played 19 min. we got the w b/c they shot just 36%.

we are winning some games but still not playing magic basketball.
the team went 2-2 when arroyo started and playing without most of the starters i think the team did good playing with the bench even wiht the arroyo bashing.
diener had one good game and it came with the horrible game arroyo played thank God we have good bench player that can step it up when needed.
and to finish we have a good 3 point player in jj and i dont understand why he does not get the playing time he should be getting.

just my 2 cents!
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Guardian
Rookie
Hi everyone. Although I haven't posted here I read the forums all the time. The Magic are fine at 17-12 at this point in the season. I am sure that if I would have told you that we'd be in first place in our division, everyone would have been ecstatic. We will continue to struggle as we are a fairly young team. The only thing I see this club lacking is a good coach. We have shooters sitting on the bench who should at least be getting acclimated to the pro game with some playing time. I see no reason why JJ and Denier are just after thoughts, considering the struggles we are having shooting the ball. People blame Jameer and Carlos but the fact of the matter is that you can pass the ball all day long and if no one can make a shot you will never register an assist. We don't move the ball around enough but I believe it's coaching. Shake up the lineup, do something. I also wish Dwight would sit down one day and watch films of Amare Stoudemire. Amare is always the first man down the floor on offense and just sucks in the defense. Dwight is always the last man down. Very lazy in my opinion. Again we can attribute this to youth. Hopefully it will change or we'll get a coach who will change it.
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