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Hornets @ Magic Thread; 12/20, 7:00 PM, Amway Arena
Topic Started: Dec 17 2006, 10:49 PM (2,968 Views)
adamosthegreek
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Kings of Europe
Chuck Arroyo is killing us, GOD BLESS DIENER FOR BAILING US OUT AGAIN!!! :) :D :yes: 8-)
1-0 on the season. :yes:
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magiclive
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#1 Magic Fan
lol. how did arroyo kill the team tonight? he shot 4-8 and had 1 turnover. if you want to blame someone, you can blame dooling or darko. i dont see how you can fault arroyos play tonight. he was actually running the offense better in the first half than diener. oh no! did i just say someone played better than diener in the first half? uh oh. please forgive me guys. i didnt mean it, lol. look at brutal. sounds like he wants to have man-sex with diener. hes so in love with him, jk. lol. i like the support though. a few good games from diener and brutals starts drinking the kool-aid. a few good seasons from jameer and hes still not drinking. can you say "favoritism?" haha. love you brutal.
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Panam
Sixth Man
magiclive
Dec. 21 2006 12:42 AM
lol. how did arroyo kill the team tonight? he shot 4-8 and had 1 turnover. if you want to blame someone, you can blame dooling or darko. i dont see how you can fault arroyos play tonight. he was actually running the offense better in the first half than diener. oh no! did i just say someone played better than diener in the first half? uh oh. please forgive me guys. i didnt mean it, lol. look at brutal. sounds like he wants to have man-sex with diener. hes so in love with him, jk. lol. i like the support though. a few good games from diener and brutals starts drinking the kool-aid. a few good seasons from jameer and hes still not drinking. can you say "favoritism?" haha. love you brutal.

How about Arroyo's 6 assists......is that killing us?????
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BRINGthaMAGIC
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All-Star
wow did not see the game but grant played 36 min was this necessary or he could have sit a bit more. just curious
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TheFalcon
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Air Gortat
Heres my thoughts on the game, for those of you who care:

Carlos had a good game overall, much better than his last few. Personally, I'm not in favor of no-look passes to guys who are wide open. It just makes mistakes more likely. It would have been okay for him to look, because hes passing to guys who have nobody near them. While I thought he played much better, I have decided that he may just be the least "clutch" player I've ever seen. In the last minute of quarters (and espescially the last minute of the game), he struggles mightily.

Diener had another solid game. His shots are falling, his passes are crisp, his defense is mediocre, and the fans love him. He spreads the court and keeps the ball moving - much more so than some of our other point guards.

Grant had a good game. He looked rested and energetic. Nice to see.

I am absolutely puzzled as to why Garrity comes in before Outlaw. Outlaw had a wonderful game yesterday. Even at his old age, he still out-works everyone on the court. Garrity looks a guy from the stands who just won a contest and gets to play with an NBA team.

Ariza is ever-improving, and ever-impressive. Maybe Turkoglu will get to keep the spot on the bench which he has said he prefers.

Tony Battie is Mr. Consistent, and I still enjoy watching him play. His jumper is looking smooth.

Darko looks like a pathetic excuse for a man. He constantly has the ball ripped out of his hands, he gets blocked out by guards, and he stands around and watches the game way too much. He needs to toughen up and start playing physical.

Chris Paul's dunk on Dwight Howard is being blown out of proportion, in my opinion. It wasn't like Dwight was in position, or even in front of Paul. He picked Paul up at the free throw line, tried to chase him down, and tried to prevent a layup. It was a very nice play by Paul, but by no means do I think Dwight was "dunked on." If you see the replay again, and I'm sure you will, watch Milicic as he stands just outside of the lane and decides not to play any help defense.

The refs are a joy to watch.

All in all, a win is a win, and I'll take it.

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Keeping it real
Sixth Man
TheFalcon
Dec. 21 2006 09:31 AM
Heres my thoughts on the game, for those of you who care:

Carlos had a good game overall, much better than his last few. Personally, I'm not in favor of no-look passes to guys who are wide open. It just makes mistakes more likely. It would have been okay for him to look, because hes passing to guys who have nobody near them. While I thought he played much better, I have decided that he may just be the least "clutch" player I've ever seen. In the last minute of quarters (and espescially the last minute of the game), he struggles mightily.

Diener had another solid game. His shots are falling, his passes are crisp, his defense is mediocre, and the fans love him. He spreads the court and keeps the ball moving - much more so than some of our other point guards.

Grant had a good game. He looked rested and energetic. Nice to see.

I am absolutely puzzled as to why Garrity comes in before Outlaw. Outlaw had a wonderful game yesterday. Even at his old age, he still out-works everyone on the court. Garrity looks a guy from the stands who just won a contest and gets to play with an NBA team.

Ariza is ever-improving, and ever-impressive. Maybe Turkoglu will get to keep the spot on the bench which he has said he prefers.

Tony Battie is Mr. Consistent, and I still enjoy watching him play. His jumper is looking smooth.

Darko looks like a pathetic excuse for a man. He constantly has the ball ripped out of his hands, he gets blocked out by guards, and he stands around and watches the game way too much. He needs to toughen up and start playing physical.

Chris Paul's dunk on Dwight Howard is being blown out of proportion, in my opinion. It wasn't like Dwight was in position, or even in front of Paul. He picked Paul up at the free throw line, tried to chase him down, and tried to prevent a layup. It was a very nice play by Paul, but by no means do I think Dwight was "dunked on." If you see the replay again, and I'm sure you will, watch Milicic as he stands just outside of the lane and decides not to play any help defense.

The refs are a joy to watch.

All in all, a win is a win, and I'll take it.

I disagree with you with one thing, the Arroyo clutcth part. What can you expect from him coming into the game with a minute left in the 4th quarter. He has been sitting for almost 15 minutes, and to set a play at the end against guys that have already been playing 10 minutes plus. How many games has Arroyo closed games in the season when Jameer is on a funk, or during that big wininng streak we had a few weeks ago. The reason Arroyo left in the 3rd was because he fouled Paul. The refs. were calling everything. What you all think!!!
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melbournemagic
Starter
Bad game...but we win.

I'm sure that all the scouting reports say that the MAGIC FALL APART UNDER ZONE DEFENSE. Whoever the Magic face in the first round of the playoffs (if we get that far), all they have to do is play ZONE DEFENSE. The Magic have yet to find a way to solve it and look totally lost.
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TheFalcon
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Air Gortat
Keeping it real
Dec. 21 2006 10:05 AM
What can you expect from him coming into the game with a minute left in the 4th quarter.

I expected a shot. Whatever he did (driving into the lane and throwing it to the Hornets) was probably the worst thing he could have done. It got the Hornets going on fastbreak, down by only 3, which could have ended very badly for us. He needed to get a decent shot, which would have taken more time and allowed our team to get back on defense.

And I'm not just talking about the end of the game, I'm also talking about the end of the half. In a single sequence, he missed a technical free throw, turned the ball over with some sloppy dribbling, and took a very weak foul on the other end (still allowing Jackson to get up a layup, which he missed).

I just think we would be better served by having the ball in someone elses hands when the pressure is on.
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Keeping it real
Sixth Man
TheFalcon
Dec. 21 2006 10:22 AM
I expected a shot. Whatever he did (driving into the lane and throwing it to the Hornets) was probably the worst thing he could have done. It got the Hornets going on fastbreak, down by only 3, which could have ended very badly for us. He needed to get a decent shot, which would have taken more time and allowed our team to get back on defense.

And I'm not just talking about the end of the game, I'm also talking about the end of the half. In a single sequence, he missed a technical free throw, turned the ball over with some sloppy dribbling, and took a very weak foul on the other end (still allowing Jackson to get up a layup, which he missed).

I just think we would be better served by having the ball in someone elses hands when the pressure is on.

How about the tought shots he made with the defenders on top of him in the second quarter. You have to understand that he is not perfect. How many times has that happen this season. Not many! I understand what you saying, on the oder hand you are making sound like Arroyo is a turnover machine in crunch time when in reality he is not, my opinion.
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adamosthegreek
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Kings of Europe
Chuck got most of his assists in the first minutes of the game and disappeared completely.
JUST LOOK AT THE LAST PLAY and you'll see why I hate Chuck hogging the God damn ball so much. That last play for us was meant to be a double screen for Pulp and instead of passing it to him (Pulp was wide open on that entire far side) he decides to take on the double team on his own, drive to the hole and get bombarded. He's lucky that didn't cost us (you could see B-Hill after the end of the game was pissed off at Chuck for that bullsh*t). :(
Diener is the only point guard passing the ball (NOT WANDERING AROUND THE GOD DAMN COURT GOING BEHIND THE BACK, BETWEEN THE LEGS AND STALLING THE OFFENSE AND FORCING UP A SHOT WITH HANDS IN THEIR FACE).

Now, as always it seems of late, the refs seemed to be playing for the other team, oh well. :lol: :)

That Chris Paul dunk has been taken out of proportion (all night on SportsCenter and during that NBA doubleheader). He didn't dunk over Dwight, and I love how there's no mention of us winning the game when it's just the highlight reel they're showing. :lol:
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iceveins333
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Rocks blocking shots on guys with dreadlocks
adamosthegreek
Dec. 21 2006 11:29 AM
(NOT WANDERING AROUND THE GOD DAMN COURT GOING BEHIND THE BACK, BETWEEN THE LEGS AND STALLING THE OFFENSE AND FORCING UP A SHOT WITH HANDS IN THEIR FACE).


finally somebody has figured out that our team isn't a proving ground for practicing for your try out for the AND 1 tour. I like carlos as one of our pg's, but not the way he is playing this year, he was much better last year when he had just gotten traded and he wasnt always trying to do his fancy and 1 bulls**t all the god damn time
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TheFalcon
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Air Gortat
Keeping it real
Dec. 21 2006 10:44 AM
TheFalcon
Dec. 21 2006 10:22 AM
I expected a shot.  Whatever he did (driving into the lane and throwing it to the Hornets) was probably the worst thing he could have done.  It got the Hornets going on fastbreak, down by only 3, which could have ended very badly for us.  He needed to get a decent shot, which would have taken more time and allowed our team to get back on defense.

And I'm not just talking about the end of the game, I'm also talking about the end of the half.  In a single sequence, he missed a technical free throw, turned the ball over with some sloppy dribbling, and took a very weak foul on the other end (still allowing Jackson to get up a layup, which he missed).

I just think we would be better served by having the ball in someone elses hands when the pressure is on.

How about the tought shots he made with the defenders on top of him in the second quarter. You have to understand that he is not perfect. How many times has that happen this season. Not many! I understand what you saying, on the oder hand you are making sound like Arroyo is a turnover machine in crunch time when in reality he is not, my opinion.

Arroyo was fine in the 2nd, that's not what I'm talking about. In the final minutes of quarters and games, he has a tendency of making really stupid decisions. He tries to do everything himself, and dribbles himself into a little hole and then turns the ball over (this happened at the end of the first half, AND at the end of the second half). I don't think he is a "turnover machine," he just tries to hog the ball at the wrong moments in the games.

I understand that he is not perfect.
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TheFalcon
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Air Gortat
iceveins333
Dec. 21 2006 11:48 AM
adamosthegreek
Dec. 21 2006 11:29 AM
(NOT WANDERING AROUND THE GOD DAMN COURT GOING BEHIND THE BACK, BETWEEN THE LEGS AND STALLING THE OFFENSE AND FORCING UP A SHOT WITH HANDS IN THEIR FACE).


finally somebody has figured out that our team isn't a proving ground for practicing for your try out for the AND 1 tour. I like carlos as one of our pg's, but not the way he is playing this year, he was much better last year when he had just gotten traded and he wasnt always trying to do his fancy and 1 bulls**t all the god damn time

Are you actually saying that you don't think no-look passes to guys who aren't being covered anyways are a bad idea? ;)

Because I think they are.
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Brutalfacts
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All-Star
OK...OK....after absolutly gourging myself on the Travis Diener Kool-Aid I got a belly ache and have come back to earth. Tip....do not try the Travis Diener Kool Aid facial, it stained my face red and I now look like BHill after watching Arroyo handle the ball in the closing minutes of (pick one, quarter, half, game).

Now my take on the Magic Point Guards.....what a muddled mess. Jameer will get the starting nod when he comes back, which he should. I would hope that Jameer, after watching for several games has noticed that a moving basketball seems to portend to better shots...and that a stagnet basketball being beaten into the floor as the shot clock ticks away means bad shots, even if he takes em. Diener has his flaws for sure, but perhaps, just perhaps his flaws are easier for the team as constructed to endure. Yes, he is defensivly challanged, but when right this team plays great TEAM defense and that masks lots of one on one defensive flaws. What I do know is...

Diener takes care of the basketball better than our other PG's
The ball seems to move better when he is in the game.
He is a better outside shooter (at least at the moment) spacing the floor much better.

But..

He does not have a great penatration game, not a draw and kick guy.
He is not real athletic (see defense)

However

I think he has a better knack for the game then the others. A right place, right time kinda thing that is hard to teach, and often is devloped by those challanged in some areas to make up for the lack of natural ability. Steve Nash has it. Someone on this board I have quit even reading his posts favorite player Steve Kerr had it. Even all time great John Havlicek (Brutals boyhood hero....former Buckeye you know) had it.

Bottom line...I do not know for an absolute fact right now which of the PG's is the best suited for this team. Jameer is probably a better leader, Arroyo probably possess the best basketball skills (but also possesses the worst judgement) and Diener possesses the intangables. What I want is the team (managment and coaches) to evaluate the best FIT. Who makes this team better....not who is the cornerstone, or who satisfies an ethnic fan base....I think I know the answer if the evaluation is totally objective.

Brutal
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Magic333
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McGrady and Howard... What could have been
Keeping it real
Dec. 21 2006 10:05 AM
TheFalcon
Dec. 21 2006 09:31 AM
Heres my thoughts on the game, for those of you who care:

Carlos had a good game overall, much better than his last few.  Personally, I'm not in favor of no-look passes to guys who are wide open.  It just makes mistakes more likely.  It would have been okay for him to look, because hes passing to guys who have nobody near them.  While I thought he played much better, I have decided that he may just be the least "clutch" player I've ever seen.  In the last minute of quarters (and espescially the last minute of the game), he struggles mightily.

Diener had another solid game.  His shots are falling, his passes are crisp, his defense is mediocre, and the fans love him.  He spreads the court and keeps the ball moving - much more so than some of our other point guards.

Grant had a good game.  He looked rested and energetic.  Nice to see.

I am absolutely puzzled as to why Garrity comes in before Outlaw.  Outlaw had a wonderful game yesterday.  Even at his old age, he still out-works everyone on the court.  Garrity looks a guy from the stands who just won a contest and gets to play with an NBA team.

Ariza is ever-improving, and ever-impressive.  Maybe Turkoglu will get to keep the spot on the bench which he has said he prefers.

Tony Battie is Mr. Consistent, and I still enjoy watching him play.  His jumper is looking smooth.

Darko looks like a pathetic excuse for a man.  He constantly has the ball ripped out of his hands, he gets blocked out by guards, and he stands around and watches the game way too much. He needs to toughen up and start playing physical.

Chris Paul's dunk on Dwight Howard is being blown out of proportion, in my opinion.  It wasn't like Dwight was in position, or even in front of Paul.  He picked Paul up at the free throw line, tried to chase him down, and tried to prevent a layup.  It was a very nice play by Paul, but by no means do I think Dwight was "dunked on."  If you see the replay again, and I'm sure you will, watch Milicic as he stands just outside of the lane and decides not to play any help defense.

The refs are a joy to watch.

All in all, a win is a win, and I'll take it.

I disagree with you with one thing, the Arroyo clutcth part. What can you expect from him coming into the game with a minute left in the 4th quarter. He has been sitting for almost 15 minutes, and to set a play at the end against guys that have already been playing 10 minutes plus. How many games has Arroyo closed games in the season when Jameer is on a funk, or during that big wininng streak we had a few weeks ago. The reason Arroyo left in the 3rd was because he fouled Paul. The refs. were calling everything. What you all think!!!

Even though I'm a Magic fan, and a Big D12 fan. Paul dunked on him. That was a nice play by paul. It was just nasty!!!!

arroyo has played in the end of 5 games atleast. And Jameer has been in for the rest. And yesterday showed me that is why Arroyo is on the bench most of the time in those sitiuations. Reason that he is in those situations is that he is hottest player for the Magic, and you got to keep the hot player going. Arroyo is not that type of end of the game player. Jameer Nelson is. He has taken the last shot for the Magic and has made them all. He is one of the go to players at the end of the game. He makes good decisions with the basketball. He is the team leader. I'm not dogging arroyo. But thats why he isn't a starter over Jameer.
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