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Steve Francis; Why all the hating?
Topic Started: Feb 21 2006, 06:44 AM (1,185 Views)
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I don't get why so many people don't like Francis, and want him traded. If its because of his bad season then you should just stop right there. Kobe has had a bad season himself but that shouldn't make people jump him and trade him. When he killed last year with those stats posting a 7 asisst, 21 PPG stats I didn't hear no grumbling. Now he is doing some bad turnovers, is having a scoring low and etc. and you people hate him and want him to be traded. I think he should stay and we should keep him so he can shrug off this bad season. His stats are pretty sick, and thats no reason to say he's no good and should be traded. Half the PG's in the NBA don't have his numbers in scoring. He is a giant offensive boost in some games.

I say let him stay and work this off and then if he has another bad season then he should be in trade rumors. I mean with stats like this

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/steve_francis/index.html

2005-06
Statistics
PPG 16.3 RPG 4.80 APG 5.7

As bad as those are compared to his earlier stats they are still good. And don't give me the whole he has alot of turnovers because Steve Nash leads the league in turnovers but does that make him a bad player? Like I said earlier, just let him play through this slump because we have let go alot of good players( Shaq, C-Webb, B. Wallace ), and I don't want to see us let go of this guy and then he turns into a multiple time All-Star.
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Here are the basic reasons why a lot of Magic fans hate on Francis:

1. He has mental stability problems. He'll be all fine and dandy for a while, but then do something dumb like kick a photographer, refuse to enter a game, that sort of thing. He wants badly to be a team leader (which I applaud), but he just does not seem to have the right mind for it.

2. He has not improved much since his rookie season. Early in his career, people were more forgiving for his shortcomings, expecting him to improve in the areas that were his worst - turnovers, overdribbling, and defense. He hasn't made many strides...

3. He is not a pure point guard, nor is he anywhere close to being one. Again, I applaud Steve's efforts this year, improving his game and getting the ball in to Dwight more, but the major killer has been that he is not consistent. He started playing poorly once Jameer Nelson started getting minutes, and then later on once he started hearing the trade rumors. This goes with the first thing I mentioned - he seems to have confidence issues and he pays too much attention to what people are saying about him.

I like Steve Francis, and I think that he is a physically talented player. He just brings too many negative intangibles to the game that seem to be detracting from his own play and from the team, which means a trade needs to be looked at. It also doesn't hurt that we've got a young PG in Nelson who was putting up very impressive numbers before he got hurt, and also is more mature and has better leadership qualities than Francis.

But I will say this - if Francis were a more consistent player who didn't have so much emotional baggage, he'd be a much more liked player and probably wouldn't have any trade rumors surrounding him.
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MagicMadness
Feb. 21 2006 06:19 AM
Here are the basic reasons why a lot of Magic fans hate on Francis:

1. He has mental stability problems. He'll be all fine and dandy for a while, but then do something dumb like kick a photographer, refuse to enter a game, that sort of thing. He wants badly to be a team leader (which I applaud), but he just does not seem to have the right mind for it.

2. He has not improved much since his rookie season. Early in his career, people were more forgiving for his shortcomings, expecting him to improve in the areas that were his worst - turnovers, overdribbling, and defense. He hasn't made many strides...

3. He is not a pure point guard, nor is he anywhere close to being one. Again, I applaud Steve's efforts this year, improving his game and getting the ball in to Dwight more, but the major killer has been that he is not consistent. He started playing poorly once Jameer Nelson started getting minutes, and then later on once he started hearing the trade rumors. This goes with the first thing I mentioned - he seems to have confidence issues and he pays too much attention to what people are saying about him.

I like Steve Francis, and I think that he is a physically talented player. He just brings too many negative intangibles to the game that seem to be detracting from his own play and from the team, which means a trade needs to be looked at. It also doesn't hurt that we've got a young PG in Nelson who was putting up very impressive numbers before he got hurt, and also is more mature and has better leadership qualities than Francis.

But I will say this - if Francis were a more consistent player who didn't have so much emotional baggage, he'd be a much more liked player and probably wouldn't have any trade rumors surrounding him.

Well I can't say he has mental problems since I don't know him personally, and I doubt many do on this forum. He probably had a reason for the stuff he does do and doesn't do which we may never know only he will. The guy is just reaching his prime, as Kobe is so I can't say he isn't improving as I see small differences in his play style each year. In houston he liked to shoot alot of threes and he has changed that. He dishes it more often and not to mention he has been through a good sum of coaches. He just needs to settle in and dig in his roots. Give him one more season and at the end of that then start the trade rumors. As for him not being a pure PG, all I have to say is this, make him a SG and see how that plays out. He even said himself in that show Beyond the Glory that he doesn't like being a PG as much as shooting the ball. Like Kenny the "Jet" Smith said he is a PG with SG tendencies. Also in that show he said he had an ear problem so that may be the reason for alot of his miscommunication and mess ups, and I'm not talkin no ear iche. Like I said before though he is just getting into his prime and trying to find his stride, if people keep trading him, and giving him different coaches that want different things out of him he will never feel comfortable and find his good niche. His coaches included: Rudy Tomjanovich, Jeff Van Gundy, Brian Hill, and the one previous to Hill. Each of them want a different play style, as Tomjanovich let him play how he felt comfortable where he had some of the best stats of his season, to Gundy wanting him to be more of a PG, to the Magic coaches.

We really need to lay off the guy and give him a chance. BTW sorry for the length
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The problem with Francis wanting to be a SG is that he isn't tall enough to play that position correctly. We need a player who can run the point, set up plays, and get the ball in to his teammates. Francis is decent and doing so, but too many times he overdribbles and/or causes a turnover. It's not his fault that he isn't tall enough to play SG, but it is his fault that he won't ditch the SG tendancies and focus solely on doing the things that a PG is supposed to do.

A point guard can do his duties and still score. Steve Nash is a great example of this. Francis isn't even scoring much this season, but still isn't doing too well in the other categories (asissts, steals, etc.).
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MagicMadness
Feb. 21 2006 06:36 AM
The problem with Francis wanting to be a SG is that he isn't tall enough to play that position correctly. We need a player who can run the point, set up plays, and get the ball in to his teammates. Francis is decent and doing so, but too many times he overdribbles and/or causes a turnover. It's not his fault that he isn't tall enough to play SG, but it is his fault that he won't ditch the SG tendancies and focus solely on doing the things that a PG is supposed to do.

A point guard can do his duties and still score. Steve Nash is a great example of this. Francis isn't even scoring much this season, but still isn't doing too well in the other categories (asissts, steals, etc.).

We already have someone who can run the point and set up plays. Arroyo, Nelson, and heck if all goes wrong even Diener's no defense jack it up will do. As for him not being tall enough that isn't very valid since Diener sometimes play SG and alot of the SG's in the league now are like 6-8 or shorter, while Stevie is 6-3. Another thing is that Hedo is 6-10 and thats pretty big for a SF but he plays it effectively. Allen Iverson plays SG from time to time and he is SIX FOOT!!!!! :D And like I said before about him doing bad this season.....its just this season. He is just in a slump is all, just let him get out of it. I think he is a good player wasted if we put him in trades.
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Also look at his 2004-2005 stats compared to the rest, those are really good! Even people like Kobe have reached some lows in scoring and stuff and they bounced back.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/steve_francis/index.html
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MAGICMANEVAN
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Feb. 21 2006 06:32 AM
MagicMadness
Feb. 21 2006 06:19 AM
Here are the basic reasons why a lot of Magic fans hate on Francis:

1. He has mental stability problems. He'll be all fine and dandy for a while, but then do something dumb like kick a photographer, refuse to enter a game, that sort of thing. He wants badly to be a team leader (which I applaud), but he just does not seem to have the right mind for it.

2. He has not improved much since his rookie season.  Early in his career, people were more forgiving for his shortcomings, expecting him to improve in the areas that were his worst - turnovers, overdribbling, and defense.  He hasn't made many strides...

3. He is not a pure point guard, nor is he anywhere close to being one.  Again, I applaud Steve's efforts this year, improving his game and getting the ball in to Dwight more, but the major killer has been that he is not consistent. He started playing poorly once Jameer Nelson started getting minutes, and then later on once he started hearing the trade rumors.  This goes with the first thing I mentioned - he seems to have confidence issues and he pays too much attention to what people are saying about him.

I like Steve Francis, and I think that he is a physically talented player.  He just brings too many negative intangibles to the game that seem to be detracting from his own play and from the team, which means a trade needs to be looked at.  It also doesn't hurt that we've got a young PG in Nelson who was putting up very impressive numbers before he got hurt, and also is more mature and has better leadership qualities than Francis.

But I will say this - if Francis were a more consistent player who didn't have so much emotional baggage, he'd be a much more liked player and probably wouldn't have any trade rumors surrounding him.

Well I can't say he has mental problems since I don't know him personally, and I doubt many do on this forum. He probably had a reason for the stuff he does do and doesn't do which we may never know only he will. The guy is just reaching his prime, as Kobe is so I can't say he isn't improving as I see small differences in his play style each year. In houston he liked to shoot alot of threes and he has changed that. He dishes it more often and not to mention he has been through a good sum of coaches. He just needs to settle in and dig in his roots. Give him one more season and at the end of that then start the trade rumors. As for him not being a pure PG, all I have to say is this, make him a SG and see how that plays out. He even said himself in that show Beyond the Glory that he doesn't like being a PG as much as shooting the ball. Like Kenny the "Jet" Smith said he is a PG with SG tendencies. Also in that show he said he had an ear problem so that may be the reason for alot of his miscommunication and mess ups, and I'm not talkin no ear iche. Like I said before though he is just getting into his prime and trying to find his stride, if people keep trading him, and giving him different coaches that want different things out of him he will never feel comfortable and find his good niche. His coaches included: Rudy Tomjanovich, Jeff Van Gundy, Brian Hill, and the one previous to Hill. Each of them want a different play style, as Tomjanovich let him play how he felt comfortable where he had some of the best stats of his season, to Gundy wanting him to be more of a PG, to the Magic coaches.

We really need to lay off the guy and give him a chance. BTW sorry for the length

i dont know man but steve needs a change. hes just not trying here. and it was like VC, tmac, and now him. they will keep playing like that until they get traded. plus, we NEED to make dwight the #1 or possibly the #2 depending on nelson. but we HAVE to feed dwight constantly. he could turn out like shaq for gods sake. so steves gotta go, hopefully we get odom or some other player that can be the #1,2, or 3rd scoring option and wont cry over it. dwight is averaging like 15.6 ppg and 12.6 rpg. those #s are as the 3rd option behind steve-o, nelson and possibly grant when he was healthy. imagine if he was the #1 option the type of numbers he would be putting up and the teams we would be beating. hed be averaging like 20 ppg and 17 rpg. 3 bpg and 2 apg. thats crazy. i mean come on you can see the potential. trade steve so we can develop dwight into shaq2.
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I still like Francis, it is time to move on. I still have his jersey which I wear to Magic Games. Once he got suspended for refusing to enter the game, I went out and bought a Nelson Jersey, because the writing is on the wall. However, if the right trade come along, I am forward it and there will no hard feelings.
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But they do feed it to Dwight, and its time to move on? This is his second season here. All NBA players are spoiled with the ball and have HS mentalities *cough* Kobe elbowing Mike Miller *cough*. Dwight has so much potential which is true and which is why I'm saying let Steve be the SG and Jameer the PG, I mean that way they both get what they want. Yeah feed Dwight the ball but even Shaq doesn't get the ball constantly all game. Shaq sets people up with the double team and passes.
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MagicMadness
Feb. 21 2006 06:19 AM
Here are the basic reasons why a lot of Magic fans hate on Francis:

1. He has mental stability problems. He'll be all fine and dandy for a while, but then do something dumb like kick a photographer, refuse to enter a game, that sort of thing. He wants badly to be a team leader (which I applaud), but he just does not seem to have the right mind for it.

2. He has not improved much since his rookie season. Early in his career, people were more forgiving for his shortcomings, expecting him to improve in the areas that were his worst - turnovers, overdribbling, and defense. He hasn't made many strides...

3. He is not a pure point guard, nor is he anywhere close to being one. Again, I applaud Steve's efforts this year, improving his game and getting the ball in to Dwight more, but the major killer has been that he is not consistent. He started playing poorly once Jameer Nelson started getting minutes, and then later on once he started hearing the trade rumors. This goes with the first thing I mentioned - he seems to have confidence issues and he pays too much attention to what people are saying about him.

I like Steve Francis, and I think that he is a physically talented player. He just brings too many negative intangibles to the game that seem to be detracting from his own play and from the team, which means a trade needs to be looked at. It also doesn't hurt that we've got a young PG in Nelson who was putting up very impressive numbers before he got hurt, and also is more mature and has better leadership qualities than Francis.

But I will say this - if Francis were a more consistent player who didn't have so much emotional baggage, he'd be a much more liked player and probably wouldn't have any trade rumors surrounding him.

MM summed up my dislike for Francis quite well. Good job MM.
My #1 would have been about 10 pages long, as the laundry list of Francis hurting the team due to selfish and asinine decisions is quite long, but other than that it would have been the same. Nelson IS more mature than Francis, but then again, so is Nelson's son.

This guy on the right could be a more capable team leader:

Posted Image
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CLos
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Francis cant be a SG because he cant guard other guards in the league at that position. He is a smaller version of Rasheed Wallace. Although, Wallace can shoot 3s so. :) Francis doesnt know what to do at times and we constantly need him to help us out of a situation but he doesnt come through. :@ He need a guy like Luke Ridnour who is not selfish and can shoot as well.
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Man thats some fu*ked up stuff. You guys act like he runs around the court crying " gimme the ball, gimme the ball " and then just shooting it up. He isn't a leader your right but I would like to see him as a SG. He needs to be put as a SG and not a PG since your reasons stated exactly. I will laugh when Stevie gets traded and put into the SG position and has one of the best years of his career. I mean he had the best years of his career under Tonjanavich because he told him to play how he feels comfortable and he was doing so good. Thats when he made the All-Star game.
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slickkid1990
Feb. 21 2006 09:57 AM
Francis cant be a SG because he cant guard other guards in the league at that position. He is a smaller version of Rasheed Wallace. Although, Wallace can shoot 3s so. :) Francis doesnt know what to do at times and we constantly need him to help us out of a situation but he doesnt come through. :@ He need a guy like Luke Ridnour who is not selfish and can shoot as well.

He can guard other guards in the NBA. Then again no one can really solo guard another person which is why there are double teams and why people pick up. Luke Ridnour is wack always and forever with his 16 assists and 2 points ;)
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CLos
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The Magic dont like to play the way Francis plays. He throws a fit. For crying out loud he didnt want to be put in the Seattle game. He needs to grow up. McGrady wasnt necessarily mature either but we need a guy in the locker room to step up and become a leader. Dwight Howard in 2 years will be that leader.
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slickkid1990
Feb. 21 2006 10:00 AM
The Magic dont like to play the way Francis plays. He throws a fit. For crying out loud he didnt want to be put in the Seattle game. He needs to grow up. McGrady wasnt necessarily mature either but we need a guy in the locker room to step up and become a leader. Dwight Howard in 2 years will be that leader.

Like Kobe Bryant, Ron Artest, and Rasheed Wallace are so mature. Alot of people in the NBA throw fits and about him being the leader thats why I'm saying put him as SG and not the floor general. PG's are the guys that everyone looks up to, to make the big pass or play which isn't Francis' type of play style. He needs to move to SG where he can occassionally move the ball and shoot like he wants. Oh and of course Dwight will be that leader taking it up the court giving out plays :D
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