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| Hammer House of Airfix Horror; - 1/72 Mk22 Spitfire | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 29 2013, 08:27 AM (2,798 Views) | |
| desmojen | May 30 2013, 07:29 PM Post #21 |
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Iwata Goddess
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No, the Spitfire XIX was an early test shot, and I just finished the Dambuster Lanc, which was a late test shot. They were both moulded in a harder plastic. Similar to the sort of plastic Hobbyboss and Trumpeter use - still soft enough to cut nicely, but resists sanding well. Jen. |
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| peebeep | May 30 2013, 07:38 PM Post #22 |
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Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
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I disagree, I tend to think it is a QC problem, although you could also argue the case for poor production engineering. QC should root out rubbish sprues, whether they be shrunken, warped or short shot. The large attachment points are almost certainly there to make the injection moulding process easy peasy, but if the operator is not running correct temperatures and pressures you will get faulty moulding. This could be in the form of excessive flash - too hot, too high, or short shorts - too cool, too low. If the pressure isn't held until the plastic starts to set, that's when you get shrinkage and the little shrink divots on thicker pieces. If the sprues are ejected prematurely before the plastic has cooled down that's when you get warped parts. There's evidence of all of this on some of the kits that I've added to the stash recently, but not all of them. Of the three or four that I've actually built there have been no problems with fit, other than the kits are designed without any tolerance, so you have to ease some of the joining surfaces. At the same time I've seen others report fit problems with the same kits and I'm thinking how can that be so? But demonstrably it's the case. I'm convinced the main problem is rushed production, they're getting parts warpage and shrinkage because the sprues are ejected prematurely. The engineering should be fine subject to the machines being operated correctly and I think this is also demonstrable because a proportion of the kits are perfectly satisfactory. peebeep |
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| Mentalguru | May 30 2013, 07:52 PM Post #23 |
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Owned by Jen
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^^ I agree with most fof what you say- but the sprue should not be attached to the trailign edge at all- or more aptly- Idon't think I have a single kit in my collection where this is the case- so why do it on this kit? Please don't get me wrong- I am not an Airfix basher- but it leaves me uttelrly frustrated that kits of extremely interesting British flavour subjects, that should be an absolute breeeze to build- to be frank, are just not. I want them to be great again- they need to sit down and start building their own products- particularly through the eyes of an eight year old- becasue- to be frank again- if eight year olds, toy shops and air displays are not their target market place- then hey Airfix- give it to us large- let's have that Spitfire for £14.99, but it wants to be Tamigawa for sure then! |
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| peebeep | May 30 2013, 08:06 PM Post #24 |
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Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
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If you want a really thin trailing edge I'd guess you need an attachment point and the Spitfire 22 does have a wafer thin trailing edge. If Airfix are failing in their marketing strategy, it's not very apparent. You see stacks of red boxes at shows and my local Hobbycraft has dozens of them on their shelves and they seem to turn over at a healthy rate. When they do make and takes there always seems to be plenty of punters. My recommendation would be to buy Airfix, deal with the snags and have fun. Works for me. If dealing with the snags is too much trouble then you need to be looking elsewhere for your plastic fix and nobody is going to think the worse of you for doing so. ![]() peebeep |
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| Mentalguru | May 30 2013, 08:38 PM Post #25 |
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Owned by Jen
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^ Bang head against wall- of course it works for you- you are a middle aged hyper experienced modeller! I want these things to be great for the kids Who want instant gratification and to be able to take that kit back to Dad- and say "I really enjoyed making that. Not- "Dad can you help me- I can't get it to fit together.."
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| peebeep | May 30 2013, 08:53 PM Post #26 |
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Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
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Believe me mate, that simply never happens, they just nail them together however they come and have a blast. You can give a sprog a perfectly fitting kit and they'd never notice the difference. peebeep |
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| Jelly071 | May 30 2013, 08:55 PM Post #27 |
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Advanced Member
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I will like add to this I am a father of 2(age 7 AND 10) . My kids Build the odd model out of my stash they have built the old airfix kits and new molds kits. They do not give 2 hoots about fit issues the colour they are going to paint how many rivits the kit has or if they are in the right place. They just want to stick a model togeather and paint it. I do agree that Aifix need to sort out the QC issues |
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| Harriet | May 30 2013, 08:56 PM Post #28 |
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Advanced Member
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I am wondering whether injection moulding has gone the same way of automatic/CNC type machining, i.e. the actual amount of "operator input" is getting smaller (not including programming and setting up) with materials being fed in as required automatically. If that is so, then the actual machine times need fine tuning, if not, then backsides need to be kicked. It's fairly obvious that the manufacture of the moulds is good, so if no-one tells the manufacturer that the quality is variable, then they won't know. And more importantly they won't know what to do to put it right. I was going to leave these sort of comments until I had built another Lynx, but the one I am building at the mo doesn't have the 'fall together' feeling and I know from talking to a friend that that is the case with the one he built, but there you go. When I have some more info, I will email Airfix and tell them what I think. My current build has 'Made in India' on the box. Personally, I've paid far more and been severely disappointed before, and I try and be constructive in my comments, but there you go. Mental's right - we need to enjoy this, and probably more importantly make sure that the newcomers in this hobby aren't put off by trying to put crap kits together and struggling to get a reasonable facsimile of whatever they are building. Just my opinion mind |
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| Harriet | May 30 2013, 09:10 PM Post #29 |
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Advanced Member
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I've run the make and take at our show for two years now - and I have the following comments. 1. Never let a kid get led astray by a 'good modeller' in the make and take room 2. Never try and stop a five year old putting the numbers from the decal sheet on a model they've made. They will find out that they will fall apart, all on their own! 3. Don't try and ask them if they want a spit or a me 109 - ask them if they want to build a plane with or without a yellow nose. 4. Pink looks good with green on a Spitfire 5. If an adult who has never done any modelling ends up trying to finish a model for their child, HELP THEM! 6. Canopies look good with paint all over them. 7. Enjoy watching the smiles of all those who take part |
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| Edgar | May 30 2013, 11:34 PM Post #30 |
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IPMS member
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Plastic, as it enters the mould, is hot; this heat is transferred, more and more, to the mould; the hot mould keeps the plastic hot for longer, as the moulding process continues; as the hot plastic is ejected from the mould, it can distort, slightly, as it cools, unless the operative is experienced enough (or not being hassled) to allow it to cool slightly more, before ejection; a hot moulding can easily distort if it is dropped too sharply into the receiving container. |
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| Porschemeister | Jun 1 2013, 07:48 AM Post #31 |
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Advanced Member
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Well,an interesting debate! I recently bought the 1/72 P51 Mustang by Airfix,and it looks fabulous in the box, the mouldings look very crisp and nice wheels etc,the recent article in SAM mag by Karl Robinson found very helpful,and there was a problem with the canopy rails that needed to be filed or sanded. I think for the price of £4.99 pretty good value. The Airfix revival I think is great for the hobby and agree with Paul that some QC issues need addressing but this was also the case when Trumpeter started production,they had made a bad batch of canopies and warped fuselages. Personally am pleased Airfix are releasing new kits,but value modellers experiences and thoughts on the new releases! |
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| Walrus | Jun 1 2013, 07:52 AM Post #32 |
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A bristle short of a full brush
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I had a load of problems with the P-51 kit It fitted together really well. The problems were all mine! |
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| Mentalguru | Jun 6 2013, 08:27 PM Post #33 |
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Owned by Jen
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was at "a shop" (location denied) today, and saw a huge pile of Airfix Gladioli. Well, what can I say- on the sprue it looks orgasmic- but hey- this is how this thread started. |
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| Harriet | Jun 6 2013, 09:24 PM Post #34 |
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Advanced Member
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So ... did you ... ? When are you going to start it?
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| Mentalguru | Jun 6 2013, 09:31 PM Post #35 |
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Owned by Jen
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No I didn't! I told you- am waiting for the three blade prop jobbie. However- I would hve picked up a Typhoon if there had been one there. I DID pick up the Xtradecals in 1/72 for the Mk 22/24 Spit though- which is 98% ready for paint- of which I also got the new Tamiya Dark Green /Ocean grey/ Light Grey. Once tilted in with X-22 I imagine these will look good. I also picked up a set of revell pilot figures- got home home and realised without thining, had bought a 1/48 set- D'oohhh |
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| Harriet | Jun 6 2013, 10:00 PM Post #36 |
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Advanced Member
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Oh well ... guess I'll have to wait for tips on how to build one then - rats Can't you just glue another prop on there? |
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| Walrus | Jun 6 2013, 10:26 PM Post #37 |
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A bristle short of a full brush
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The irony Everyone chomping at the bit to get hold of a Gladdie, and the only bugger whose LHS has them in stock turns his nose up at the kit!
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| Mentalguru | Jun 7 2013, 07:02 AM Post #38 |
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Owned by Jen
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HAHA Actually, I brushed out the Tamiya colours last night- oh dear. No way these are going to look right on a teeny scaler. Stil lstruggling to get the underside colour right- I'm a bit of a dunce regarding the nuances of WW2 RAf colours, I will continue to struggle until something sorts itself out both in my head, and on the model.. Oh and BTW, it was Hannants shop. Must have had 20-30 |
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| desmojen | Jun 7 2013, 06:27 PM Post #39 |
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Iwata Goddess
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I used the Tamiya colours on mine Mental....... Jen. |
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| Mentalguru | Jun 7 2013, 07:25 PM Post #40 |
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Owned by Jen
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^^pics? |
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