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Scale effect painting; Is there a general rule of thumb?
Topic Started: Sep 19 2012, 06:53 PM (1,074 Views)
harrierdoug
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dogsbody
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Hi all.

keep reading about this "Scale effect" when searching through painting model articles, but not quite sure what it means other than "lightening" or "darkening" a base colour depending on the scale of the kit.

Is there a general rule of thumb, I.e 2 parts white to base colour, as regards this "lightening" & "Darkening" if so can you give me some ideas as to 1/144, 1/72, 1/48 and 1/32?

I take it that you use white or pale grey to lighten grey's, tan to lighten brown's and yellow to lighten green's?

TIA

Doug
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The Hooded Claw
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Advanced Member
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My rule of thumb is its all bollocks.

THC
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Floyd
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I like to mottle things.
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^ above seconded, I research the paint scheme, make sure I have accurate paints, such as RLM colours that match up to RLM chips, then I simply paint with them, on the occasion I do a post shade I use a few drops of white to the mix, other than that straight from the pot so to speak.
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Mentalguru
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Owned by Jen
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This is one of modelling's weirdest vices.

I have had too many ups and downs with people about this one, but to give you an idea of what you should be looking for- try this;

Go to a carpark, and take a photo of a car in a nice colour, maybe a green, or red, or graphite. Make a firm mental note of exactly how that car appears- take photos, light in front, light behind, different exposures etc..


Now go to the dealership, find out the exact colour code for the car, and then go to a paint shop, and get a colour swatch.
Now compare to your photos and mental recall of the colour.

Now Laugh
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Drewe
Amused To Death
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It's certainly not bollocks as far as I'm concerned, but it IS massively subjective. Me? For the most part I do tend to lighten and postshade to a degree, but for me (and in reference to Mental's post) it's almost exclusively about MY mental image of what I'm trying to represent. It's one of the most divisive and yet, to my mind, pointless and long running arguments in modelling. I barely even pay any attention to actual standards any more, such is my belief in MY mental image being the one that matters.
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Walrus
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A bristle short of a full brush
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How is it in any way ballcocks? I think it is nonsense to try and paint a 1/72 model expecting the colours to appear like they would on the real thing.

However a lot of people, myself included, do so as is our prerogative. But if someone asks how it might be done that is a fair question that should be the issue to be addressed.

Drewe has called it absolutely correctly imho

Doug, it isn't something I have looked into so can't really help.
I have enough problems even getting to the painting stage so am just glad to slap some paint on.
The one thing I would say is that I don't like adding white to lighten colours for modelling

One way to do it would be to have a lighter base colour than the standard colour and build up thin layers.
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Seamus
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Advanced Member
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Must admit, I don't really get this either. As an example, I regularly see people mentioning they replace black with a dark grey on 1/72 cockpit, something I've done myself, but to be honest I'm not entirely sure why, other than perhaps to make the interior more visible through the canopy. Surely a black object is black, no matter what scale it's in? :hmm:

Hypothetically speaking, what if we took an object at 1:1 and increased it's scale? Would it really look darker? :hmm:
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desmojen
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Iwata Goddess
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I'm afraid I'm firmly in the bollocks camp on this one.

Lightening of things far away is a standard technique used by landscape painters to aid the sense of depth and distance on a flat canvas.
Somewhere back in the no doubt lightened for scale effect mists of time, some modeller somewhere jumped on this and over the years it has become an accepted truth.

The things I am painting are neither flat, nor far away, they are simply small.

Jen.
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Walrus
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A bristle short of a full brush
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Standing close to an aircraft will give a different experience of its colour than if it is seen 100 yards away.
If someone wishes to represent that I fail to see how it is bollocks.

What I really don't understand is the absolutist positions people take about painting bits of plastic.
Good grief people can't even agree about the sodding colours in the first place!
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Mentalguru
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Owned by Jen
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Jen, you're talking bollocks LOL

Ok- black surface- in direct sunlight will appear dark grey.

Dark grey surface in direct shadow will appear black.

I have one of those funny eye trick pictures somewhere, but not on this lap top- when I get home I will post it.

But as far as the original post goes- one thing has to be remembered- CONTEXT!

Worst thing a modeller can do is place a 1/72 model alongside a table full of 1/48 ones- in a way, the lightening and toning of colours is a similar discipline, whatever you do, it has to match whatever else you do.

I also use different surface patina on my models- gloss on places that catch the light, semi matt on "normal" areas, and flat on heavily trafficked or anti glare- it all adds up to style, and in effect it is another form of detail- one which most people happily ignore.

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Harriet
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I rather thought it meant the thickness of the applied paint - but then, what do I know? :slaphead:
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Floyd
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I like to mottle things.
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Scale effect is a tricky thing, take my airfix 109 for example, many on here said it could be mistaken for a 1/48 example, painting was done in my usual way of primer with black panel line pre shade, then life colour acrylics straight from the bottle, then some simple post shading with the same colour lightened. If yo put it next to the real thing would it look the same, I highly doubt it, but then again, would any model?

End of the day, it is your model, if it looks like the desired subject, then you are golden, as for dark grey in a black cockpit, I use that all the time, as in 1.72 a full black cockpit will look like a coal hole. It is all about your own perceptions of what you want.
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peebeep
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Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
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I don't buy the whole scale effect thing and over the years have seen some beautifully painted models, except that the colours looked washed out and lifeless. The theory is that the intensity of hue dissipates with distance due to the atmosphere and that a scale model is the equivalent of looking at the real artifact from a scaled distance. :hmm: It could be a good thing for 1/144 or smaller scales, all you would need is a few grey paints...

The other thing that can look very weird is washed out paints with bright decals. :hypnotised:

I like to slightly flatten the colours with the finishing coat. Add a tiny drop of pale grey to your varnish and build it up in layers to get the required effect. That deals with both the paint job and the decals.

peebeep
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AndyT
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Sound the klaxon twice and dive the Submarine!
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Sorry but I just paint it as I see it ~ if that be in realism or surrealism - Escher rocks ok?
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Floyd
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I like to mottle things.
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PeeBeep, that is a cracking idea adding a small drop of grey to the final varnish colour, will have to try that on my next build.
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MikeC
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Too many SIGs for my own good
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All very interesting. Just to add to the debate, for those of us who build aviating things, I read somewhere once that colours tend to appear different at higher altitudes due to the different light quality. Then add in the effects of weathering, and there is of course no absolute "correct colour" for anything.

Surely this debate is but one example of the engineering vs artistic approach to modelling?For my part, as long as it looks "right" and plausible for the subject/time/theatre/use of subject/particular colour scheme/user/whatever, then it's fine by me.
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desmojen
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Iwata Goddess
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I think Peebeep probably understands my standpoint. My models aren't representations of the real thing a long way away. They are representations of the real thing but smaller.

On that basis, I see no validity in scale effect whatsoever.

I'm not saying no-one else should do it, I am firmly of the opinion that modellers should model as they see fit and for their own enjoyment. I am just offering my own opinion :shrug:

Jen.
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foxy
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Happy modeler
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Nice topic and most seem to go for the well if it looks right then thats fine.

Thats how I look at it.

I to add grey as a mist on my armoured vehicles, this tones down all the colours and decals.
To me that looks right in any light.
I should add, I have never tried the paint with Varnish, ditto to Floyd.

Just me two penny worth. :D
Edited by foxy, Sep 20 2012, 01:05 PM.
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peebeep
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Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
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One word of warning Floyd, the effect doesn't become apparent until the overcoat has dried, which makes it very easy to over-do.

peebeep
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Floyd
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I like to mottle things.
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Right cheers for the heads up, will have a test or two on some scarp material.
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