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Enamels; What's the crack?
Topic Started: Jan 21 2012, 10:08 AM (259 Views)
desmojen
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Iwata Goddess
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As most of you are no doubt fully aware, I mostly paint my models with acrylics, or laquer based paints. The acrylics I use are the laquer based Asian style ones (Tamiya and Gunze) rather than the European kind which are mostly latex based and only thin with water or derivatives of the same.

So anyway, I'm building a Spitfire PRXI at the minute, which is of course PRU Blue overall. Not a colour I have in my acrylic or laquer collection. So I bought a pot (tub?) of Xtracrylix. I sprayed the model with it, using Drewe's top tip of Morrisons window cleaner to thin it. It was horrible. So I thinned it with Xtracrylix' own brand thinner and tried that. No better. Fish eyes and a spotty finish abounded, and it took a lot of time to build it up micron by micron to a proper colour.
Having wasted over an hour trying to do something that would take ten minutes with Gunze, I gave up and left it to dry.

While it was drying I went to my local toy shop and bought a tinlet of Humbrol enamel, mindful of the fact that so many modellers swear by the stuff, I figured it had to be better than the Xtrapoo experience. With the model suitably rubbed down, I tried again with the Humbrol. It is a brilliant colour match to the Xtraclog, so that's a good start thinks I.
But no, as I built up the colour, the model began to take on a horribly grainy appearance. It was like spraying thinned down sand! Even with a little gloss varnish mixed in to smooth things out, the finish is absolutely horrible!

This morning things looked better. Now fully dry, the finish looked nice and smooth and I thought I'd cracked it, so I got out the Klear to ready it for decals. As soon as I started spraying it, the horrible sandtastic finish returned and it looked nasty again. I can see that I am going to have to try and carefully rib it down to make it smooth, but if I go through the colour the whole damn cycle starts again! What a faff!

So my point is, after that long rant, what on earth do all these other modellers see in enamels? They stink, they take ages to dry, and judging by this, they have pigment particles the size of peas! :blink:

Jen. (now off to ebay to see if I can get some Mr Color!)
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peebeep
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Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
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As a die hard enamels bod I must admit to using Tamiya acrylic more frequently, but even that can still suffer from the one thing that puts me off spraying acrylics, tip clogging.

Humbrol matt almost invariably needs smoothing down, I think the graininess is due to the matting agent, not the pigment particle size. You should find that the gloss and satin Hu's don't suffer the same problem.

I've never used any of the Gunze stuff, will have to give it a whirl some time.

peebeep
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AndyL
Sean's little piggy ''squeal piggy squeal''
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Jen,

If you're stuck, I think I have some Aeromaster PRU Blue knocking about if you need it. Some of it has been used, but it keeps very well indeed. At times, I'm darn glad I bought a load of Aeromaster before they stopped doing it.

I have sprayed some Extcrylix this week...but thinned it with Vallejo airbrush cleaner. Went on beautifully. Which for me, is a surprise :)
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foxy
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Happy modeler
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I have a feeling that the two Xtracrylix and the Humbrol do not mix even when dry.
If you had tried Humbrol on its own you would have had no problem me thinks, as Beepeep say.s the clogging is the biggest problem with Humbrol paints, I do thin them down to near water and use a few coats before useing Klear for decales.
I find you have to clean spraygun regular like after each spray which is a pain but gets good results in the end.

I to use mostly water based Acrylics now but have a big stash of Humbrol!!!!!.

Hope you got sorted Jen ok :thumbsup: .
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Mike W
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Hook down, wheels down... call the ball
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What are you thinning the Humbrol enamels with , Jen?
I found they go on with ease when thinned with cellulose thinners.
Still stinky though.
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peebeep
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Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
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The cellulose trick works OK, although you can make up a soup by using a proportion of white spirit and just tickle it with some cellulose. The most recent white spirit I got from B & Q works fine on its own.

I've never felt there was any particular problem with the smell of enamel, maybe my olfactory's are deficient!

peebeep
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desmojen
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Iwata Goddess
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Sorry, I should have mentioned I was thinning it with cellulose. I find cellulose thinned enamel dries a bit quicker, and it usually sprays nicely. I think it might just be the latest batch of Humbrol, as all my old ones spray nicely :shrug:

Jen.
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peebeep
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Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
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I don't know where the paint is currently manufactured, but when it was outsourced to China there were definitely a lot of QC issues.

peebeep
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Mike W
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Hook down, wheels down... call the ball
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I must admit it is probably years since I have bought any Humbrol enamels.
All mine are years old, and although get a bit lumpy if left untouched for long periods, they always stir and mix up well and thin down easily.
Maybe it is as you say, Jen, that it is a new batch manufacturing problem. Do they still smell the same as the old ones?
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Seamus
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Advanced Member
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Get yourself some Xtracolor Jen. I try to use them almost exclusively and they are a joy to use, spraying beautifully when thinned with Humbrol enamel thinners, never clog and dry to a smooth, glossy sheen. I also find their range of colours to be largely spot on (there are a couple of exceptions), a major plus point for me when compared to the equivalent Gunze and Tamiya paints of certain colours. Drying time isn't an issue for me as I'm never in a rush, but you can add some Rustin's driers to them and they're dry in an hour or so I believe.

Out of interest, being lacquer based, aren't Gunze and Taimya a bit pongy themselves? Certainly the few pots of Tamiya I have lying around are a bit smelly, though I've not sprayed.
Edited by Seamus, Jan 21 2012, 06:25 PM.
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Walrus
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A bristle short of a full brush
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Humbrol do PRU Blue in acrylic which I thought was rather good but I did use a hairy stick rather than a spritzer
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les
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Advanced Member
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Extracolour thined with White Spirit, Bloody amatuer :thumbsup: Come and see Neil and I at Yeovil :D
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Rory
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Advanced Member
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I use only enamels and mostly xtracolour or humbrol. I use cellulose for thinning and if needed to retard the drying time a touch of white spirit. No hard and fast rules regarding mixing ,if too thin add paint if too thick add thinners an all sprayed at about 2 bar. Painting the Ju52 topside took about 30 minutes including mixing paints and all done in one sitting..
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foxy
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Happy modeler
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I should have said I thin with Humbrol thinners and this works well, but stinks as all do :wooo: , plenty of air seems to work weather permiting :D .
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desmojen
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Iwata Goddess
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More answers :)

Well, no they don't smell like the old ones Mike. Old Humbrol smells nice!
Seamus, I do have the odd pot of Xtracolour, and White Ensign as well, but I must admit I've never been all that impressed with them either to be honest. Although they do at least go on smooth! Tamiya and the laquer paints do smell, but I find they don't linger like Humbrol seems to.

Les, I would come and see you two regardless. I need to take the mickey out of Neil for being so old don't I :fool:

The overwhelming impression I'm getting is that I must have a shoddy tin of Humbrol, because although I generally don't enjoy spraying enamels much, I have never had this much trouble with them before.

Jen.

P.S. I managed to smooth the little Spitfire out, so all's well that ends well :)
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