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Enamels v Acrylics
Topic Started: Nov 23 2010, 09:45 AM (1,069 Views)
Steve
Member
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Hi All

Forgive my ignorance but taking the fumes issue aside, is there an advantage in using enamels through the airbrush other than acrylics

I generally use Tamiya or Model Air but note from other posts on here that a lot of you use enamels. Does an enamel give a better finish?

Thanks

Steve
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peebeep
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Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
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Until recently I was a die-hard enamels person - still am up to a point. I've always found enamel to be more durable and is easier to apply with airbrush or good old fashioned hairy stick. My biggest issue with acrylic was that the damn stuff never used to stick properly. This is still the case with some acrylic varieties, but I've been having a go at using Tamiya stuff recently and I'm quite impressed, probably because Tamiya is spirit rather than water based. I've not had any issues with airbrush tip clogging and it lays down very nicely.

I will continue to use enamel, unless it becomes impossible to obtain. It seems possible they may either be outlawed eventually or manufacturer's may phase them out voluntarily.

peebeep
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Mike W
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Hook down, wheels down... call the ball
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I use acrylics almost exclusively, especially when airbrushing. In fact , if I have to use enamels for whatever reason, then I seem to have all kinds of problems as I only spray them on occasion.

The biggest advantage acrylics have over enamels, for me, is the drying time or lack thereof. Enemals have to be left overnight to really dry out/harden before they can be handled

I use Gunze or Tamiya acrylics, and contrary to popular belief, they ARE intermixable , both being spirit based as Paul alludes to. I thin them with IPA (Iso Propyl Acohol not as some might think, India Pale Ale - what a waste!) and have superb results. I rarely if ever have problems with acrylics not adhering to bare plastic, they do work just as well over a primer coat if that is your wont. If i'm using a bright colour such as yellow or red, then a white undercoat is preferable to give some solid backing to the colour and save adding multiple coats.

Acrylics dry with 15-25 mins as a general rule and can be handled, with care, almost straight away. They can also be masked within the same time frame providing you're using low tack tape such as Tamiya or Trimaster.

Personally speaking, I would use acrylics over enamels everytime, so to answer your question, no, there is no advantage to either medium. Its purely a personal choice or preference. As with most things, there will be naysayers for each. I wouldn't say enamels give a better finish, this is down the correct thinning and air pressure, if you get those right the finish will be perfect every time.

Ultinately its your choice!
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desmojen
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Iwata Goddess
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I wholeheartedly agree with Mike, I also have problems with enamels on the rare occasions that I use them.
The only thing I would say is that all acrylics are not equal. Like Mike, I use Gunze and Tamiya pretty much exclusively. Revell, Humbrol, Vallejo, Lifecolour and Xtracrylix all suffer from varying degrees of the nastiness that puts people off acrylics, so I use only rarely and only when I have to. They are workable with patience, Drewe has proven that Xtracrylix can even be quite nice if thinned with the right things.

The only paint that I prefer even to Gunze and Tamiya acrylic is Gunze Sangyo Mr Color laquer - that stuff is the dogs :)

Jen.
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Seamus
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Advanced Member
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I'm an enamel user, so in the interests of fariness and balance, here's my view of them. I use them for a number of reasons, mainly due to the fact that having tried acrylics and lacquers (Alclad) I've always struggled with them, so keep going back to enamels. I almost exclusively use Xtracolor, which I find spray beautifully, dry nice and glossy (a big plus for me) and have most of the colours in the range I need which, to my eye, are pretty accurate for the most part. Sure, they have longer drying times, but that doesn't really bother me (though if it did, there are driers that can be added to speed things up to an hour or two).

I've no doubt the reason I haven't got on with the acrylics are down to me, so I suspect in time I'll give them another go. These two above keep banging on about Gunze and Tamiya :P so I'll have a play with those at some point. One thing I don't like about Tamiya is the apparent lack of accurate colours. I've seen several models finished in their dark green/dark earth scheme and they just look plain wrong, something that IMHO isn't true of Xtracolor.

It's swings and roundabouts really, people find different ranges to suit their style and needs better than others, so it comes down to the individual as to what option they should choose. For the meantime, enamels tick the right boxes for me, so i'll be sticking with them :)
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Mike R
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Advanced Member
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I will always prefer enamels over acrylics until they take away my ability to use them. I prefer the pigments and the durability of them. Unlike the others here, I have never had any issues with airbrushing them. In fact my experience is exactly the opposite. I find almost all acrylics a PITA not only to paint with contstant clogging but they are also near impossible to clean out of the airbrush.

Sure you get a faster drying time but drying is not the same as cureing time. Just because acrylics are dry to the touch does not mean they are dry. I also do not like the fact that almost every acrylic I have ever sprayed dries a different color than what they are while wet. Enamels do not do that to me.

That all being said, I have used Gunze's Acrylic based Laquer (isn't that confusing?) with some success so will continue to experiment with them.

I guess my preference to enamels really boils down to the fact that I have always used them and they are in my personal wheelhouse.

Cheers

Mike
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Steve
Member
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Great advice and much food for thought.

Thankyou all

I will give the Gunze a go as well as an enamel

I knew i had come to the right place

:bow:
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The Hooded Claw
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Advanced Member
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I've battled for a long time with Tamiya and Revell's Aqua Colour acrylics. I just found them too inconsistent in spraying ratios. Now I'm using the Mr Hobby acrylics almost exclusively. I use their proprietry thinners (comes in great big bottles).

Far and away the best Acrylics I've ever bought and used.

THC
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osher
Advanced Member
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Basically, we're doing ourselves a mis-justice by these terms, as they're too general. There are 3 types of paint, maybe 4 if we labour the point:

1. Enamels. These are excellent for brush painting, and produce a better finish than acrylic. However, they don't 'spread' as well, unless thinned down. They also are good for airbrushing, but, are less forgiving if you get the thinner ratio wrong. The end result can be superior to acrylic, and indeed, it can good to a point that acrylic can get. However, it takes a lot more time and practise to be able to spray to that point. Still, if you can do it, the results are impressive. I find that enamel sprayed is less good than acrylic for hiding errors, but that's just me.

2. Japanese acrylics (Tamiya and Gunze Sangyo). These acrylics produce stunning results, time after time. Just a little thinner, and away you go! The finish is always good, unless you totally muck it up. However, it's far more delicate than enamel, and probably requires better prepared plastic. Whilst I've seen some stunning results with these, ultimately, they probably have to give way to enamel. Still, for 99% of people, the results are great!

3. Western acrylics (Humbrol, Revell, Xtracrylics, etc). These tend to be good for hand painting, and in some ways, better than enamels, because, out of the pot, they 'spread' better, don't smell as bad, and dry quickly. Also, the oils in enamels stinks, and, if you touch it raw, it's difficult to shift (Revell are the worse for this, leave a pot upright for a long time, weeks maybe, then open it. All the oil is at the top. Don't touch it!). These can be airbrushed, but... they will clog quickly, very quickly. I've not tried them with an external mix, but, in a Badger or Iwata, it's a pain. Still, they look good! I've read here that flow-enhancer helps though.

4. Spanish style acyrlics (Vellejo, Color of Eagles, Alcad II). These are designed for airbrushing, and can only be used in small areas brushed. Some love them, some, not. I find them nice, but don't use them that much.
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Drichc
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Banaaaaana
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I think you'll find that Alclad II is not an acrylic Osher, it's a VERY hot lacquer. Just brush some neat onto plastic and see what happens. The only exceptions to this are the Chrome and a couple of the 'Polished' finish range. As to those I have no idea!

rich
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snipersmudge
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Release the hounds!
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Acrylics for me, I used to use a mixture of the two, acrylics for main painting and enamels for detail painting, especially on figures but about 4 years ago I made the change to acrylics only. I have found with practice I can get the same if not better results with acrylics. So now the only solvent based paints I use are alclad and the occasional zero paint.
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osher
Advanced Member
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richc
Nov 30 2010, 05:19 PM
I think you'll find that Alclad II is not an acrylic Osher, it's a VERY hot lacquer.

I stand corrected!
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Biggles
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At last the Luddite replies! For me, enamels every time. I find them more robust, more predictable, more versatile and far less 'fiddly' than acrylics. I concede that they are smellier, but I thin and clean with good-quality cellulose ('lacquer') thinners, and provided you're sensible about ventilation and/or protection, I quite like the smell. I use mainly Humbrol and WEM. but Xtracolour, Precision, Gloy and Compucolor are all in the arsenal. I do use Citadel acrylics for detail brush painting.

One other thing - just because acrylics are low-VOC paints, and are water-miscible, don't assume that ingesting/inhaling them is any less dangerous than with enamels. Indeed, because they are not 'smelly', it's possible to ingest higher levels without being aware of it. They won't give you the headaches that prolonged exposure to High-VOC' gives you, but you need to be just as careful with regards to long term damage
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Drichc
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Banaaaaana
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Biggles
Dec 1 2010, 09:52 PM
At last the Luddite replies! For me, enamels every time. I find them more robust, more predictable, more versatile and far less 'fiddly' than acrylics. I concede that they are smellier, but I thin and clean with good-quality cellulose ('lacquer') thinners, and provided you're sensible about ventilation and/or protection, I quite like the smell. I use mainly Humbrol and WEM. but Xtracolour, Precision, Gloy and Compucolor are all in the arsenal. I do use Citadel acrylics for detail brush painting.

One other thing - just because acrylics are low-VOC paints, and are water-miscible, don't assume that ingesting/inhaling them is any less dangerous than with enamels. Indeed, because they are not 'smelly', it's possible to ingest higher levels without being aware of it. They won't give you the headaches that prolonged exposure to High-VOC' gives you, but you need to be just as careful with regards to long term damage

That's very interesting Biggles. Do you have any more info? Is it a respirable thing where the paint particles can cause issues within the lung structure?

I like most people I'm sure have always assumed that acrylics are generally 'safer'. :unsure:

I'm also now really confused about Alclad. All of the metallic bottles smell of MEK and all the other nasties in them, except for the Chrome. This is still called a lacquer, but smells very different with no sign of the chemicals used on the bottle.

Anyone know what the chrome is?

rich
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Steve
Member
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Thanks for additional info

I had always assumed that acrylics were much safer than enamels when spraying

:o :o
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Eric2020
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Advanced Member
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I use mostly Humbrol and Revell paints. I have bought NEW tin of Revell paint and it is terrible to work with. This is what happend to the paint. I thinned it down their own thinner as normal. Paint thins down good, but.... <_<

I can brushpaint the colour i need, but after realy minutes I had to thin down the paint again, again and again.

After few days took the parts painted and guess what? The paint is very sticky and not even dry after 3 full days of drying. I noticed that Revell use new tins as well. That can be seen on the lid as that is white. Where the tins in the past perfect for use and to store the paint, these new tins have become terrible.

Also you can never trust in the paint anymore, as one time you have new tin the paint is very thin, or the paint is very thick not only due to the pigments of the paint.

I like to hear if that is the case with more users, and perhaps all together make an complaint to Revell, as I know they like to hear it as well. ;)
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peebeep
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Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
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Revell enamel sprays OK but it needs a lot of thinning as all the tins that I've had are very gooey. I've found it useless for brush painting, it sets too rapidly, can't be brushed out into a thin layer and it is impossible to feather the edges to get smooth coverage.

peebeep
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osher
Advanced Member
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Revell enamels reqiure a lot more mixing than Humbrol enamels. However, I find them good to use, and, they have a lot diversity in black/dark greys, reds, and whites. In my MiG-15 I'm building, I've painted some parts Humbrol RLM65, and some Revell RLM65, which makes a nice contrast. I think Humbrol is closer, but Revell seems more like the Russian stuff.
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ratch
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Advanced Member
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I was a die-hard enamel user. I had every colour in the Humbrol range and quite a few that had been deleted. Great for brush painting, but hit and miss when airbrushing. Some tinlets would go on perfectly while others would instantly clog the airbrush. Each tinlet would require a different thinning ratio. I found Xtracolor behaved in a similar manner except I didn’t like how they brush on. I’ve never been keen on Revell enamels (except for Anthracite), Matchbox and Airfix enamels were fine with a hairy stick.
Then I discovered acrylics and was almost instantly converted. Drying times are incredibly quick (compared with the 3 hrs to overnight of enamels). I find Tamiya work better through an airbrush than off the sable. Revell Aqua brush nicely, as do Airfix Gift Set acrylics – I’ve not tried to airbrush either of these. I’ve only ever used Andrea flesh tones through the airbrush and I’m just about getting the hang of them. I find Vallejo suit me best. The Air paints spray superbly and the Colour range can be applied just as well with a stick. I like the range of colours; I just need to work out which Vallejo description matches well-known paints (Duck Egg Blue/Ocean Grey etc).
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