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Iwata vs Harder & Steenbeck; Choices, choices......
Topic Started: Mar 31 2010, 10:59 PM (13,064 Views)
cop
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Dirty Harry
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Ps. Yes Drewe, get it done. I for one would like to see it. Along with more stuff.
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Floyd
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I like to mottle things.
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which Itwata would be for 1/72 detailed work, as that is my main scale? ideally I would be looking at a 0.2/0.3mm nozzle size, large areas I have other brushes for.
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Drichc
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Banaaaaana
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The Revolution is outstanding as Jen says, and punches way above its price point. You can get a 0.3 tip for it and I can't imagine wanting anything smaller for the paints we use.

The next step is the Eclipse which I think Mike R has. The advantage there is the tips are quicker to change (0.5 & 0.35), so if you only have one brush it'll be quicker to swap about. I may get one myself later.

Next up are the HP-Plus and Hi-Line which are virtually the same apart from the Hi-Line having a built in MAC valve. they can only take a 0.2 and 0.3 tip, which means large area coverage is compromised for slightly better fine line ability (almost certainly not a problem with your intended scale).

Micron - forget it, unless you bump into Nige and he convinces you :deadhorse: . It has something special about it that I can't quite place, but it's really only an option if you want to sell a kidney :frantic: . Also don't entertain the 0.18 tip, apparently struggles with modelling paints due to pigment size.

Me - if doing this again - only buying one brush, it'd be a toss up between the Eclipse and Revolution. From there it's down to you, and your needs. Pushed I think I'd go for the Eclipse for the ease of tip change, but that's me. You need to play with them at a show, and have a clear idea of what you need out of the brush.

richc
Edited by Drichc, Sep 6 2012, 06:36 PM.
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desmojen
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Iwata Goddess
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It depends on your budget of course, but the two options that stand out for me are the Revolution BR and the Hi Line HP-BH.

The Revolution is around £100, comes with a 0.3mm needle and will do pretty much anything you want.

The Hi Line HP-BH has a 0.2mm needle as it comes, along with an integral MAC valve and a preset handle. These cost around double what the Revolution does. As far as what it will do - I once shaded the trousers on a 1/48 figure with mine...

The MAC valve is available now as a separate part which you can put into the airline before the airbrush, and if you are bothered about a preset handle, you can buy them separately as a spare part. I don't like them myself, and swapped all mine out for the basic kind.

Jen.

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Drichc
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Banaaaaana
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:D

Just beat you Jen.

Oops I see she means the preset handle. Must admit I used that a fair bit on the Infinity, so a matter of personal preference.

MAC valve, I picked one up with the brushes. Never used it yet.

rich
Edited by Drichc, Sep 6 2012, 06:40 PM.
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desmojen
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Iwata Goddess
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I'll echo Rich C as well, having a clear idea of what you want from an airbrush is really handy. You may be picking up on a theme here, but all of us have gone through several iterations of airbrush before ending up where we are now.

My Revolution CR has been with me from the start. I bought a 0.3 set up for it and effectively converted it into a BR. I used that along with an HP-BH for fine stuff for ages. I did find though, that I missed the 0.5 needle for Alclads and Klear, and also the two brushes were too far apart in feel and use. So I had another reshuffle recently, and have converted the Revolution back to a CR which is fitted with an inline MAC valve.
I sold my BH and the TR1 that I never got on with at all, and now have The Revolution CR as the staple brush, backed up by a 0.3 HP-CH for fine work. I do have a 0.2 CM-C+ as well, but so far I haven't felt the need to use it........

Jen.
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peebeep
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Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
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Mine's an Eclipse, love it, but due to excessive tension in the old index finger I've been playing with an el cheapo trigger action brush, which solves the problem. So that's what I'll be looking for next in branded hardware - after I've sold me spare kidney.

peebeep
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Floyd
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I like to mottle things.
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cor this is tricky. Been doing some digging and looking around and I must say I keep getting drawn to either the Eclipse CS, The 0.35mm nozzle that I can change to a 0.5 is most encouraging. However the real daddy is the HP-C Plus, that thing just looks like a beast, a perfect 0.2mm nozzle and the option if I wish to purchase a 0.3mm nozzle. Now my main scale is 1/72 and I do like fine detail. My current hack brush is a paasche VSR-90. Nothing amazing mind,it comes with a 0.2mm nozzle and a 0.5mm. sprays ok, can be a tad troublesome with the 0.2mm nozzle, and Ive yet to really get a nice fine line out of it, but it serves its role nicely as I can change to the much larger 0.5mm for larger areas and glossing.

Questions to the masses as I can find the HP-C+ from littlecars for near makes no difference £160 and the CS for £130, with only £30 in it, and when we are dealing with stuff this pricey makes littler difference at this stage, I am curious which brush will handle certain paints better.

I.E out of the two, which one will deal with Alclads better, I really only use acrylics, But I use a fair amount of alclad microprimer and I run some pretty mean cellulose based thinners through my brush, this stuff is pretty caustic, the paasche handles it well, with no degradation of the o rings, or any other parts, will the two Itwata brushes stand up to this sort of abuse, also if I do want to spray the odd enamel which one would handle those heavy pigment paints better. bearing in mind again 1/72 is my main building scale.

Finally, how often do itwata update there brush line, last thing I want to do is pick up a brush, only to find out it is no longer current and getting spares for it will become a nightmare, I don't plan on changing brush's often, so the next one I buy will stay with me for a good 10-15 years unless I utterly kill it (doubtful)

Lots of questions, sorry about that, but this really is a minefield. My first brush (the paasche) was given to me, so really I have no clue on these matters.
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peebeep
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Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
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It's my understanding that acrylic paints have coarse pigments, therefore you should be looking toward using larger needle/nozzle combinations rather than smaller. I use Alclad airbrush cleaner which smells like it should strip paint at ten paces, so far no bother with seals and 'o' rings. I think Iwata use Teflon or some-such for these. When I was going through the same process of umming and aahing, the CS seemed to press all the right buttons so I bought one. Apart from the finger trouble, which is down to my personal anatomy, I have no reason to regret my choice.

peebeep
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desmojen
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Iwata Goddess
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I think you'll find they will both handle any paint you throw at them. If you look at the range, and parts diagrams, you will see that they are all pretty much the same inside. I've seen some people moaning recently about Iwata's not being able to cope with cellulose thinners. All I can say to this is, ahem, bollocks. I use cellulose as a thinner and cleaner almost exclusively and have never had any problems at all. They must be soaking the entire brush in the stuff, or leaving it in a bath of thinners or something - which is not a brilliant idea really.
When I talk about my Revolution handling Alclad I'm on about particle size - not the solvent base.

I would check if I were you about the needle/nozzle options. The reason I say that is that my Revolution has to have the packing O ring changed when I change from 0.3 to 0.5 as the needles are not the same diameter. I have no experience with the Eclipse range so I don't know if they are able to swap back and forth without that. Other than that, the only major difference I can see is the self centering nozzle on the Eclipse. Whether you find that important or not is up to you.

The range doesn't change very quickly. Although new brushes are being released regularly of late, all the older ones are still current, and all have full spares backup. I wouldn't worry about that aspect at all.

Lastly, have a look on e bay and a google around. There are quite a few independents selling Iwata's (with full warranty etc) for a fair bit less than some of our staple modelling merchandisers.

Jen.
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Drewe
Amused To Death
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I use lacquers and other "hot" paints the majority of the time. I use A LOT of cellulose thinners (I buy it by the gallon from a local car spraying shop - Tetrosyl standard thinner it's called) and also put acetone through my Iwatas from time to time. They have never had the slightest problem with either. The one thing I'd be wary of is using a too small needle and nozzle if you use the Euro-acrylics (Xtra, Life, Vallejo. . those types), as they spray more coarsely than the silkier Asian types (Tamiya, Gunze etc.) and can cause problems with small needles and nozzles. Freehanding any sense remains next to witchcraft with the Euros, and is easily accomplished with the Asians.

These are my experiences, others may vary!
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Mentalguru
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Owned by Jen
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Phreak
Apr 1 2010, 07:12 PM
Good advice, thanks Mike and Drewe.
I'm now looking at it from a slightly different perspective and need a chat with the guru fom Ickle cars!

Thanks for all of your inputs...much appreciated.
Well there you have it- looks like you have to buy both Rich!

But it's not so bad- you can send me* the one you don't like as much

*poor Badger 200 top slot user that needs complete rebuild/replace as it has done so much work.

Currently using a double action Chinese thing that my mate Osher bought me for Christmas- it ain't pretty, it ain't clever, but an airbrush is like penis size apparently**

**it's not the size of the brush- it's the way you use it :wooo: ***


***(obviously my airbrush is "adequate.")
Edited by Mentalguru, Sep 7 2012, 10:10 AM.
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Phreak
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Advanced Member
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Tough do dos Mental, got an Iwata HP-CS yonkers ago!

Want to buy a 200?
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Mentalguru
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Owned by Jen
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Phreak
Sep 7 2012, 08:06 PM
Tough do dos Mental, got an Iwata HP-CS yonkers ago!

Want to buy a 200?
"Buy" huh?

What sort is it?
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Phreak
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Advanced Member
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Mentalguru
Sep 7 2012, 09:50 PM
Phreak
Sep 7 2012, 08:06 PM
Tough do dos Mental, got an Iwata HP-CS yonkers ago!

Want to buy a 200?
"Buy" huh?

What sort is it?
I'll dig it out and let you know matey.
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Floyd
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I like to mottle things.
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Ok.. I get it now. I fully understand why everyone raves about Iwata, before I was somewhat sceptical, but now....wow. See today the postie dropped off my very own, brand spanking new Iwata HP-B plus and blimey, the quality is on a whole different plane to my Paasche and the fineness of the lines. Easy to clean and assemble. Overall I am extremely happy. Like I said, I get it now, hell of an airbrush.
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