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| 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayans insist | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 11 2009, 10:46 AM (200 Views) | |
| Kamalam | Oct 11 2009, 10:46 AM Post #1 |
Santa's Helper
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LINK By MARK STEVENSON, Associated Press Writer Mark Stevenson, Associated Press Writer – Sun Oct 11, 3:58 am ET MEXICO CITY – Apolinario Chile Pixtun is tired of being bombarded with frantic questions about the Mayan calendar supposedly "running out" on Dec. 21, 2012. After all, it's not the end of the world. Or is it? Definitely not, the Mayan Indian elder insists. "I came back from England last year and, man, they had me fed up with this stuff." It can only get worse for him. Next month Hollywood's "2012" opens in cinemas, featuring earthquakes, meteor showers and a tsunami dumping an aircraft carrier on the White House. At Cornell University, Ann Martin, who runs the "Curious? Ask an Astronomer" Web site, says people are scared. "It's too bad that we're getting e-mails from fourth-graders who are saying that they're too young to die," Martin said. "We had a mother of two young children who was afraid she wouldn't live to see them grow up." Chile Pixtun, a Guatemalan, says the doomsday theories spring from Western, not Mayan ideas. A significant time period for the Mayas does end on the date, and enthusiasts have found a series of astronomical alignments they say coincide in 2012, including one that happens roughly only once every 25,800 years. But most archaeologists, astronomers and Maya say the only thing likely to hit Earth is a meteor shower of New Age philosophy, pop astronomy, Internet doomsday rumors and TV specials such as one on the History Channel which mixes "predictions" from Nostradamus and the Mayas and asks: "Is 2012 the year the cosmic clock finally winds down to zero days, zero hope?" It may sound all too much like other doomsday scenarios of recent decades — the 1987 Harmonic Convergence, the Jupiter Effect or "Planet X." But this one has some grains of archaeological basis. One of them is Monument Six. Found at an obscure ruin in southern Mexico during highway construction in the 1960s, the stone tablet almost didn't survive; the site was largely paved over and parts of the tablet were looted. It's unique in that the remaining parts contain the equivalent of the date 2012. The inscription describes something that is supposed to occur in 2012 involving Bolon Yokte, a mysterious Mayan god associated with both war and creation. However — shades of Indiana Jones — erosion and a crack in the stone make the end of the passage almost illegible. Archaeologist Guillermo Bernal of Mexico's National Autonomous University interprets the last eroded glyphs as maybe saying, "He will descend from the sky." Spooky, perhaps, but Bernal notes there are other inscriptions at Mayan sites for dates far beyond 2012 — including one that roughly translates into the year 4772. And anyway, Mayas in the drought-stricken Yucatan peninsula have bigger worries than 2012. "If I went to some Mayan-speaking communities and asked people what is going to happen in 2012, they wouldn't have any idea," said Jose Huchim, a Yucatan Mayan archaeologist. "That the world is going to end? They wouldn't believe you. We have real concerns these days, like rain." The Mayan civilization, which reached its height from 300 A.D. to 900 A.D., had a talent for astronomy Its Long Count calendar begins in 3,114 B.C., marking time in roughly 394-year periods known as Baktuns. Thirteen was a significant, sacred number for the Mayas, and the 13th Baktun ends around Dec. 21, 2012. "It's a special anniversary of creation," said David Stuart, a specialist in Mayan epigraphy at the University of Texas at Austin. "The Maya never said the world is going to end, they never said anything bad would happen necessarily, they're just recording this future anniversary on Monument Six." Bernal suggests that apocalypse is "a very Western, Christian" concept projected onto the Maya, perhaps because Western myths are "exhausted." If it were all mythology, perhaps it could be written off. But some say the Maya knew another secret: the Earth's axis wobbles, slightly changing the alignment of the stars every year. Once every 25,800 years, the sun lines up with the center of our Milky Way galaxy on a winter solstice, the sun's lowest point in the horizon. That will happen on Dec. 21, 2012, when the sun appears to rise in the same spot where the bright center of galaxy sets. Another spooky coincidence? "The question I would ask these guys is, so what?" says Phil Plait, an astronomer who runs the "Bad Astronomy" blog. He says the alignment doesn't fall precisely in 2012, and distant stars exert no force that could harm Earth. "They're really super-duper trying to find anything astronomical they can to fit that date of 2012," Plait said. But author John Major Jenkins says his two-decade study of Mayan ruins indicate the Maya were aware of the alignment and attached great importance to it. "If we want to honor and respect how the Maya think about this, then we would say that the Maya viewed 2012, as all cycle endings, as a time of transformation and renewal," said Jenkins. As the Internet gained popularity in the 1990s, so did word of the "fateful" date, and some began worrying about 2012 disasters the Mayas never dreamed of. Author Lawrence Joseph says a peak in explosive storms on the surface of the sun could knock out North America's power grid for years, triggering food shortages, water scarcity — a collapse of civilization. Solar peaks occur about every 11 years, but Joseph says there's evidence the 2012 peak could be "a lulu." While pressing governments to install protection for power grids, Joseph counsels readers not to "use 2012 as an excuse to not live in a healthy, responsible fashion. I mean, don't let the credit cards go up." Another History Channel program titled "Decoding the Past: Doomsday 2012: End of Days" says a galactic alignment or magnetic disturbances could somehow trigger a "pole shift." "The entire mantle of the earth would shift in a matter of days, perhaps hours, changing the position of the north and south poles, causing worldwide disaster," a narrator proclaims. "Earthquakes would rock every continent, massive tsunamis would inundate coastal cities. It would be the ultimate planetary catastrophe." The idea apparently originates with a 19th century Frenchman, Charles Etienne Brasseur de Bourbourg, a priest-turned-archaeologist who got it from his study of ancient Mayan and Aztec texts. Scientists say that, at best, the poles might change location by one degree over a million years, with no sign that it would start in 2012. While long discredited, Brasseur de Bourbourg proves one thing: Westerners have been trying for more than a century to pin doomsday scenarios on the Maya. And while fascinated by ancient lore, advocates seldom examine more recent experiences with apocalypse predictions. "No one who's writing in now seems to remember that the last time we thought the world was going to end, it didn't," says Martin, the astronomy webmaster. "There doesn't seem to be a lot of memory that things were fine the last time around." |
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"Duct tape is like the force: It has a dark side and a light side and it holds the universe together." - Carl Zwanzig | |
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| Sean_ | Oct 11 2009, 12:32 PM Post #2 |
Darkman
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Found it! This explains everything.  |
| I am everywhere and I am no where. I am everyone and I am no one. | |
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| Skookum | Oct 11 2009, 04:02 PM Post #3 |
~**~
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:D |
.....'cause......I'm a pothole  ...
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| Kamalam | Oct 11 2009, 04:46 PM Post #4 |
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Santa's Helper
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Sean, I think your post is the best explantion I've seen! The sky is falling, the sky is falling! 
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"Duct tape is like the force: It has a dark side and a light side and it holds the universe together." - Carl Zwanzig | |
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| Morgana | Oct 13 2009, 02:05 AM Post #5 |
Advanced Member
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That is the article I was talking about a few nights ago. People are so silly. If the Mayans think it is all hooey, then we should too. It is kind of like Christians trying to tell people what the Old Testament means, instead of asking someone of the Jewish faith. After all, the Hebrews wrote it and passed it down to their descendants, I think that they know what it is about. So, same with the Mayans, they wrote it, they know what it means. And they say nope, world's not ending. |
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| Cody | Oct 13 2009, 04:02 PM Post #6 |
Seeker
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I think the post pointed out the big fallacy. There is only one known Mayan Calendar that ends in 2012. There are many, many more that keep going. I think eventually all calendars have to run out, it is how calendars are made. We use calendars that are good for thirteen months - the year we are currently in, or are about to enter and usually the month of January for the following year. They have end dates that don't mean anything except we need to get a new calendar. Who knows why this one was only written to the 21 of December 2012. Maybe it is like the comic above, there just wasn't enough room to keep going. Or maybe the person thought it was long enough, or he couldn't see beyond that point, it just seemed too far into the future. The point is, based on one fragment of a calendar we are prophesying the end of the world? Even though there are more Mayan calendars that keep going? How superstitious we still are as a people in the western countries of the world. |
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"Some people can learn by watching others. Some people can learn by reading books. But most people just have to pee on the electric fence for themselves!" ---Will Rogers | |
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| BeanBoy | Oct 13 2009, 06:33 PM Post #7 |
Pushing the Limits
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Y2K all the way! I don't think Noory will be able to promote the 2012 scam like Bell did the Y2K money grab. Bell is the C in con man! :lol: |
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| Kamalam | Oct 13 2009, 10:35 PM Post #8 |
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Santa's Helper
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Hey, Beanie... say it isn't so! Bell is the Dude! I'm the first to admit the guy went a little wackadoodle... but man, can he do radio! Only Knapp comes close in creating that same buzz and excitement, but for some reason his topics lately have been a little flat. Not sure what's going on there... Getting back to the Mayan thing... Cody, I had never heard that other Mayan calendars went past 2012 until this story came up. I'd like to know more about that if you find any other info... |
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"Duct tape is like the force: It has a dark side and a light side and it holds the universe together." - Carl Zwanzig | |
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| BeanBoy | Oct 14 2009, 07:15 PM Post #9 |
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Pushing the Limits
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I agree Art is / was the man! Many a day I went dragging ass into work in the morning because of listening to him all night. It was great! I just question his motives. Can't blame him for that I guess but I think he really did take us for a ride in more ways than one. He sure put the C.Crap Company on the map! :lol: |
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| Cody | Nov 14 2009, 06:55 PM Post #10 |
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Seeker
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Here is more on the continuation of the Mayan Calendar beyond 2012 Experts debunk Maya doomsday predictions But that hasn't stopped books, movies from cashing in By Scott LaFee Thursday, November 12, 2009 at 1:06 a.m. If the ancient Maya and filmmaker Roland Emmerich are correct, the apocalypse will happen very fast, maybe quicker than his new 2½-hour movie. In “2012,” which opens tomorrow, a volcano virtually pops out of Yellowstone National Park. Tsunamis race across continents in seconds. Bottomless chasms gape suddenly, not unlike the mouths of anyone watching. Or anyone who's been listening lately. Predictions of global ruination are rippling around the globe with seismic force, all loosely based on a 5,000-year Maya calendar that ends Dec. 21, 2012. Countless Web sites and blogs anticipate the end of days, as do various New Age groups and would-be prophets offering guidance and how-to tips. On Amazon.com , you can peruse hundreds of book titles combining the year 2012 with terms such as “apocalypse,” “catastrophe” and “end of the world.” As always, doomsday sells — and a lot of people are buying it. “There's the psychobabble aspect,” said Robert Epstein, former editor of Psychology Today magazine and a lecturer at the University of California San Diego. “It's the Sigmund Freud/death wish idea: People glom onto doomsday predictions because there's some small part of them that wants to die, and die spectacularly. I don't believe it, but it's one way to look at this.” It's Emmerich's way. The German director specializes in wreaking havoc on an epic scale, from climatic cataclysm in 2004's “The Day After Tomorrow” to angry aliens and reptiles in “Independence Day” and “Godzilla.” In “2012,” he finishes the job. The digitized disasters of “2012” are oversized, overwrought and sometimes literally over the top, as when a humongous tsunami washes over the Himalayan mountains, whose average height exceeds 20,000 feet. Meanwhile in Los Angeles, a 10.5-magnitude earthquake — a temblor at least 30 times more powerful than any real quake ever recorded — yanks the city apart like a giant zipper, sending chunks sliding into the Pacific Ocean. That's not physically possible, of course. Nor is a 10.5-magnitude quake, said Thomas Rockwell, a geologist at San Diego State University. To generate that much energy, “you'd need a rupture that extends all around the planet.” “(A 10.5) quake is probably not physically possible on our planet from normal plate tectonic processes,” Rockwell said. A gigantic meteor impact might do it, Rockwell said, but Emmerich's cosmic culprit is the sun, which suddenly and monstrously flares, blasting the Earth with waves of formerly massless, now mutated particles called neutrinos. The planet's core is irradiated like a bag of overcooked microwave popcorn. Astronomers do say the sun appears to be entering a new, but expected, cycle of heightened activity. But the increased radiation poses a threat primarily to unprotected satellites, power grids and people in high-flying aircraft, not the Earth itself. All of that other stuff “is pure Hollywood bunk,” said Bernard Jackson at the UCSD Center for Astrophysics and Space Sciences. Entertaining, though, unless you happen to believe the Maya really predicted the end of the world. They didn't, said Geoff Braswell, a UCSD anthropologist. The long-count calendar doesn't signal the end of anything except the end of that particular calendar. “It's just like a car odometer. The calendar clicks over to a new set of numbers. The Maya certainly didn't expect the world to end. They wrote about stuff happening 400 million years from now.” Unfortunately, hardly anybody reads ancient Mayan. Modern media hype, on the other hand, is almost inescapable. “If all around us we are hearing messages, and sometimes being shown in spectacular fashion, that a huge disaster might occur on such-and- such a date, then that alone might be enough to persuade some people,” Epstein said. Nicholas Christenfeld, a professor of psychology at UCSD, suggests a more elemental human need. Being swallowed by the Earth or incinerated in a giant fireball “fits neatly with the idea that people want to believe there's a plan, that existence isn't random and pointless,” Christenfeld said. “We all missed creation, but if we can bear witness at the other end, be part of some grand cosmic destruction, that gives life meaning,” he said. It helps, too, not to think very hard about the facts, said Lou Manza, a professor of psychology at Lebanon Valley College in Annville, Pa. “Such as the fact these claims have been around forever, and they have all been false, 100 percent wrong,” Manza said. Of course, prognosticators usually have an explanation for that, Christenfeld said. “They might say it was a misinterpretation,” he said. “They got the date wrong. They might claim humanity acted in time to prevent the destruction. Or faith came to the rescue because people believed something bad was going to happen, it didn't have to happen.” William Gladstone, who has an anthropology degree from Harvard, is the author of “The Twelve,” a new novel about the Maya calendar and a planet in peril. Gladstone said he wrote fiction “because the story doesn't work as nonfiction.” Unlike the doom-and-gloomers, Gladstone doesn't believe the world will end soon, but he does think the Maya anticipated something. He said his investigations, buttressed by the work of a largely unknown 77-year-old Hungarian philosopher named Ervin Laszlo, point to Dec. 21, 2012, as a likely moment of metaphysical transformation in the human species. “I don't know exactly what will happen. It may be very subtle, a vibrational shift that probably can't be measured,” said Gladstone, who lives in Cardiff. But if the change can't be measured, Gladstone is asked, how will anyone know something happened? “That's a good question,” he replied. LINK |
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"Some people can learn by watching others. Some people can learn by reading books. But most people just have to pee on the electric fence for themselves!" ---Will Rogers | |
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| Sean_ | Nov 14 2009, 08:06 PM Post #11 |
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Darkman
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That's pretty much the equivalent of nothing happening. :rolleyes: |
| I am everywhere and I am no where. I am everyone and I am no one. | |
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| Cody | Nov 14 2009, 08:38 PM Post #12 |
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Seeker
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I was wondering what nothing happening in 2012 will do to Coast to Coast. In fact, I wonder what just passing that date will do to the show. |
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"Some people can learn by watching others. Some people can learn by reading books. But most people just have to pee on the electric fence for themselves!" ---Will Rogers | |
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| Sean_ | Nov 14 2009, 08:41 PM Post #13 |
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Darkman
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Same thing that happened with Y2K. Nothing. There's always another apocalypse around the corner. :) |
| I am everywhere and I am no where. I am everyone and I am no one. | |
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| BeanBoy | Nov 14 2009, 11:46 PM Post #14 |
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Pushing the Limits
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I wouldn't count 2012 out yet. |
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| Skookum | Nov 15 2009, 12:08 AM Post #15 |
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~**~
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Nor Y2K; I'm still waiting. :D |
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.....'cause......I'm a pothole ...
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4:38 PM Dec 5
