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| Why Is It The Invcitus Get Screwed; Ok so maybe not screwed.... | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 9 2011, 10:44 AM (182 Views) | |
| Phillip Torelli | Feb 9 2011, 10:44 AM Post #1 |
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Keen
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So other then the whole small...*Phillip Torelli coughs... OATH thing.....(ok this can be rediculously OP) but other than that... its is some times really hard to be a well placed invictus... "Mortals are the road to power" ok that is a bold text in the invictus section of the R:tV.. and the next bit goes on bout retainers... which is good..... wait no they are fricken great.... but it feels sooooo cheezy... i need access to a bank.... so I could get allies banks... or contact branch manager... both which will cost me 30 xp...each.... or a retainer bank manager 5 dot for 15 xp..... but for flavour some times i just really want to be the guy... you know..... its just so hard being green.....actually i think i am just in a whingey mood.... WHy do carthians get contacts/allies..... that is super gay! ![]() well no i would say contacts is super justified... you know the whole theme of the carthians as some sourt of try-hard social movement.... so yeah contacts are easy.... Allies...over how blocks of ppl..... Allies police...... really....? the invictus just never thought of that? Look at your own characters and the stuff they have built...the plans they have put in motion... what were the invictus before me doing..... None of them though.... ummm cops would be shit hot.... wait now i have them i will introduce them to my childe?.... now i go all cyclic.... here childe you have them.... actually cyclic houses are semi lame too.... there is no real kick to them...from what i can remember.... yeah you get to talk to the torpored kindred ...a bit.... it should say.... "once the kindred goes in to torpor all of their belonging are given over to whom ever they select to next lead (with the idea that they will get it back in a 100 yr or so.) mechanically it should read..... new kindred gets all the contacts, resources property and allies, haven, that the old one got.....but minus 1 dot.... or something... or all these dots become half cost (to represent the taking over...) yeah that would then make sense for the invictus to matter... oh also... resources.... 1-5 half cost...once you get to 5 it no longer matters..... same as herd.... unlike say haven ...which i know you can buy over and over and over .... so victs have mentor...... (lame) Resources... a one hit wonder retainers (which is awesome...) herd Carthians have Contacts...awesome... allies....even more awesome Haven... still awesome - so this is potentially size location security Herd..... one last thing well for now... Carthian devotions...shit over the everything else in the world... My bro were up over the last couple of nights....making 2013 cam sanctioned characters..... and we make our new ones...... holy crap..... i am dumbly stupidly...OP as a carthian.... So re-set...when Alder V is finally ended... Australia will see the return of Joshua...as a dirty carthian..... For those playing at home....my pcs name is Sloth...and you all thought wyrm was bad.. ![]() |
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| Hassan | Feb 9 2011, 10:49 AM Post #2 |
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Keen
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Are you going to do what Paul did in Mage? His character had the vice of Sloth and he'd just fall asleep on couches and the floor all the time. ![]() But yeah, Invictus got dicked. They really should get Allies. I can see why WW didn't give them Allies, 'cause they want it to be a unique selling point for Carthians, but yeah. It's not so bad in troupe, where your retainers can have allies, but in Cam it's sort of crap. Also, yeah, Mentor is sort of irrelevant in MET. |
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Hassan the Moor Hassan ibn Aysu bint Tierzibijan ibn Ishmael ben Al-Amr ibn Alexia bint Mohammed ibn Hassan | |
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| Phillip Torelli | Feb 9 2011, 10:55 AM Post #3 |
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Keen
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wait.......what...... we can have retainers with allies.... *Phillip Torelli eyeballs shannon..... and shakes fist.... |
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| Hassan | Feb 9 2011, 11:01 AM Post #4 |
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Keen
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Uhh, I thought so. Haven't tried it myself. Maybe that's an incorrect assumption on my part, though. |
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Hassan the Moor Hassan ibn Aysu bint Tierzibijan ibn Ishmael ben Al-Amr ibn Alexia bint Mohammed ibn Hassan | |
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| Laraqua | Feb 9 2011, 11:15 AM Post #5 |
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Administrator
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You can-ish! It's not as good as having your own allies though as the degrees of separation make it a pain. The main thing is, to have allies in the cops, you have to go to cop bars, you have to help the cops out, you have to talk to them about their wives.... Sure you can blackmail them to make them 'ally with you' but really that just allows you to have the dots plus penalties. Dirty cops are all good but at higher levels it'll also clash with the crim allies you get and you can take a hit to your underworld status if not crucially maintained. Invictus don't hang with cops. They don't pat constables on the back and learn their names and pass them $50. They take hold of the infrastructure. They grab the police commissioner, or whoever he's called, and use his 5 dots in Police STATUS to control the administration. The average cop on the street won't know your name, won't help you, but when you call that commissioner and go "Hey, man, I need to get out of jail" he'll bust you out. He'll just say 'do this' and throw red tape around and you're out. Allies are really only useful when you want to be able to approach anyone in an area and have a chance of getting help. One dot in taxi driver allies is great for getting around for free and at higher dots they'll hope out of the taxi and have your back buuuuut what are the odds Invictus would groom that kind of relationship with them? Allies function on social and real capital but they demand stuff back. Would your average Invictus appreciate a beat cop demanding you get a petty crim off their tail? No. That beat cop, if he's yours, belongs to you and should be making your life simpler, not the other way around. You pay him or you blood bond him or you dominate him and that's all the repayment he's going to get. One thing I'm toying with is allowing Invictus to get Status at half-price, though. What do you think? They're very good at stomping on people. Hmm..... |
| OOC: Shannon O'Farrell | |
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| Hassan | Feb 9 2011, 11:19 AM Post #6 |
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Keen
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This. |
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Hassan the Moor Hassan ibn Aysu bint Tierzibijan ibn Ishmael ben Al-Amr ibn Alexia bint Mohammed ibn Hassan | |
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| Laraqua | Feb 9 2011, 11:22 AM Post #7 |
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Administrator
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This. means what? |
| OOC: Shannon O'Farrell | |
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| Hassan | Feb 9 2011, 11:24 AM Post #8 |
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Keen
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It means that it's awesome. Sort of an abbreviated "Now this's what I'm talking about! *enthusiasm*" |
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Hassan the Moor Hassan ibn Aysu bint Tierzibijan ibn Ishmael ben Al-Amr ibn Alexia bint Mohammed ibn Hassan | |
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| Phillip Torelli | Feb 9 2011, 11:32 AM Post #9 |
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Keen
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that would work...coz other wise....i made my character badly.... allies is lame... I should have gone to town... more with retainers....and status.... so ..... retainer. lawyer QC.....5 (15xp) status court judges..... 5 (15xp) now i control the courts.... ....i like it...and it seems must more true to the setting...but..... just keep that in mind was 30 xp...... At making a 200+ years guy we start with what......170 xp...? so after start dots....to just say round out i get 140 xp on owning 5 spheres of society.... plus have 30 xp for others stuff.... now i think it is more true of the WOD canon... but do we want fair game system or canon...coz they arent ment to be the same.... personally i like canon.... invictus are ment to scare others not coz they will fight you...that is the carthian deal.....(they lose their cool...) We are scarey coz...next week you are evicted from your house and you are wanted for questioning in conjunction with the girl that was raped in the parkland. not to mention your own resources have just been seized.... yeah that is the world we should play in.... |
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| Hassan | Feb 9 2011, 11:36 AM Post #10 |
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Keen
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That said, I don't think the influence game is anywhere near as canonically important in Requiem as it was in Masquerade. Vampires don't rule the world anymore, they depend a lot more on personal power and their covenants. |
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Hassan the Moor Hassan ibn Aysu bint Tierzibijan ibn Ishmael ben Al-Amr ibn Alexia bint Mohammed ibn Hassan | |
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| Laraqua | Feb 9 2011, 11:36 AM Post #11 |
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Administrator
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Yeah, basically. You know how the Invictus NPCs manage it? No, I don't either. Have you seen their sheets? They have fuck all dots in any social merits. It's all disciplines, attributes, and skills. You're lucky to see one retainer or ally mentioned ever. Remember, cash can also work where you don't have allies or retainers and you have the cash. So yeah, half-price Status. Be aware that you won't be able to buy status in multiple domains often. It's hard to maintain two let alone more than two so no Doctor / Lawyer / Private Eye / Businessman for you! But remember, full-price Allies are still useful. It beats the Carthians at their own game and denies them a resource. Plus, it means you can get access throughout the chain. Retainers are key to the Invictus but well-chosen allies are golden. |
| OOC: Shannon O'Farrell | |
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| Phillip Torelli | Feb 9 2011, 12:29 PM Post #12 |
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Keen
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That said, I don't think the influence game is anywhere near as canonically important in Requiem as it was in Masquerade. Vampires don't rule the world anymore, they depend a lot more on personal power and their covenants. what .... no!! look i didnt play owod.... so dont give me that old wod did x.... world influence is the most important part of the game.... If it isnt coming across that way then some one is mistaken...... and it isnt me ![]() hell i blame.......... you! now that said this is only appying to requiem..... point is... if you dont have wolrd influence, you cant fix stuff....(if you have been watching at home cam had the super bowl plot...some will rush to call it dumb...but if you have read the Amst write up it makes heaps of sense.... but wait what was i saying...... oh yeah... with out influence you only have powers..... and that leads back to the combat game..... coz....you have powers i have powers.... your powers are better then mine...so i just skip it all and kick you in the face.... see combat game.... now i am happy for combat game... just let me know so i can be CARTHIAN!!!!! |
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| Gary Dodd | Feb 9 2011, 12:39 PM Post #13 |
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Eager
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Go read V:tR. Regardless of how it should be, it's not written as a world influence game. Most of the NPCs rely more on personal power and influence in Vampire society than on real-world influence. And I'm not saying influence shouldn't be important, it should. Just that vampires don't rule the world, they're not even the puppet-masters. They've each got their own little slices of influence, but as Shannon pointed out, it's as much about personal capability as controlling hordes of minions. I think influence is a lot of fun, and quite important to the way we play the game. But it shouldn't be taken for granted.
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Gary Dodd Respected of the Ordo Dracul Valued of the Nosferatu Recognized of Adelaide 'Fixer and Black Marketeer' Andrew Watson | |
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| Gary Dodd | Feb 9 2011, 12:42 PM Post #14 |
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Eager
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Have you ever seen Rome? Requiem politics is heavily inspired by it. Most of the movers and shakers don't have a huge amount of pull over society. They're respected, sure, but their power comes from small groups of close allies or retainers. |
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Gary Dodd Respected of the Ordo Dracul Valued of the Nosferatu Recognized of Adelaide 'Fixer and Black Marketeer' Andrew Watson | |
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| Laraqua | Feb 9 2011, 02:58 PM Post #15 |
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Meh, I'd say it'd depend on the city. Some cities are more about the smash-face, down-in-the-muck combat ... others work society smarter and harder. Kindred aren't on top of society but some of them have their fangs in its throat and those ones have control over the big dumb animal that is the masses. Really, you don't NEED international politics to make the game gold. A shadow war can be kept quite personal and quite close to home by looking to the local city. You guys are in poorer shape because Adelaide is so small, that's why I'm working to make it more interesting and that's why Adelaide is bumped up to 1.8 million and not 1.3 million. Basically, I'm assuming that all of the 2025 plans have largely come to fruition. Really, the thing with a LARP is, it's as much of an influence war as the PCs and NPCs are willing to make it. I guess that's why there's so many NPC vampires here. They're meant to plug the gaps by showing the PCs what can be achieved and muddying the waters. Some of them have rivalries and issues with each other. I haven't been great at it and some NPCs are just talking heads but it's getting better. Eventually I'll have my finger on each one of their pulses and that should bump the influence war up a notch. There's also other creatures on the streets. Werewolves, for example. Aware humans (a.k.a. hunters). The odd well-positioned Thaumaturge. Then there's just the Underworld figures that I'm starting to mobilise. Political parties with their own urges. Local councils that might want to re-develop your haven all on their own. I'm hoping to build up a portfolio of regular humans that can cause influence problems for kindred. What do you do if they want to increase CCTV control? Hell, who mans those CCTV cameras in Glenelg, anyway? How do we know it isn't compromised? Still, most of it is between vampires in their gilded cage. The trouble with PCs is that things that would infuriate an NPC (you burned my painting?) might not register to a PC because it wouldn't be beneficial to the player to get drawn in or perhaps they wouldn't think of it. Button pushing is hard when not all of them are connected to anything. What it all boils down to is: What does your character want? Your character SHOULD have at least 5 major goals and 5 minor ones. Where does your character want to be in 5 years time? And.... What is your character's pet peeves? Trouble is, a lot of players will answer that with 'mine' and that shouldn't be strictly accurate. Even if, say, Josh can't stand Gary Dodd's weird way of talking, Torelli might find him more reasonable. What is the difference between the perceived and the real self? If there isn't one, you aren't trying hard enough. If you could roleplay a 2-dimensional stereotype of your character, a photocopy as it were, and no one could tell it apart from your character? Well, you're doing it wrong. What makes Torelli more than a well-prepared, eloquent politician who uses a lot of words to say very little? What makes James Tyler different than yet another arrogant Invictus Daeva with a sexual kink? What makes Seamus O'Baoill different to an eccentric and harmless old man? What makes Vinnie Celino more than a Gangrel thug? What makes Amity Fine more than a pretty face with a biting wit? What makes Gary Dodd different to any other dodgy dealer? What makes Terrence Williams more than a creepy Crone? What makes Danny more than a soft-hearted anime chick? What makes Hassan more than a gentleman thief? What made Dimloch more than an alien elder? What makes Persephone more than a mobile-phone-focused accountant? What makes Dominic more than another stiff-necked librarian? What makes Zafir more than a carnie with a heart of gold? What makes Yzador more than a mysterious sage? What makes Checkers Pockets different to a Victorian chimney sweep? What makes Daniel Ferth-Hallett more than a selfish favored son? |
| OOC: Shannon O'Farrell | |
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10:33 AM Jul 11