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| SM Force / Team Typo; is it 5 in the Team or 5 in the Force | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 9 May 2015, 08:25 PM (316 Views) | |
| JimMacKay | 9 May 2015, 08:25 PM Post #1 |
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Corporal
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I'm about to start a tweaked KT Campaign at my local shop and I noticed a discrepancy that I can't seem to find clarification for. In the HoR Space Marine list, for the Tactical Marines, it says - For every 5 Tac Marines in your TEAM one can have a special/heavy weapon - But in the Campaign rules on pg6 under 'New Recruits' it specifically cites the same rule, but says - one weapon option for every 5 tac marines in the FORCE - This is a big distinction. TEAM would mean you'll always need to limit your options to 1 per group and if your group can't replenish its losses, you'll need another group of marines to be allowed to field that group in the first place. FORCE would mean you could buy up as many Tac Marines as you need, then give the weapon options to one Group. THen you could just field that group and leave the rest behind. Now this would emulate the 30K Tac SUpport team and Heavy Support team. I know we'd prefer it to be Force, but i'd like to know the intent and any opinions from more experienced players. |
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| Narmet | 10 May 2015, 04:25 AM Post #2 |
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Okay, so, I think the overriding rule is the Team one - when building a Team for a particular battle, only 1/5 of the marines you bring can have heavy weapons. So even if you "Grouped" all the heavies together in a campaign, you couldn't field them like that unless you also fielded the other 4 groups of normal marines so that you'd meet the SM list ratio. (On a total side-note, there might be advantages to "Grouping" the heavies - they'd get honours together... hmm...) I think the Campaign Rules quote is saying something subtly different than in the SM List which may not be a typo - that you need to have the same ratio in your Force as in your Team. Not for Core/Specials (if you look at the sentence right before the SM example), but for wargear. So no buying 3 Melta-marines without also having 12 other normal ones in your Force. This might be to avoid the Grouping shenanigans above, but I don't know. That said, on a purely meta level I might allow it - an Unbound list of sorts, with a ton of Heavies. In a campaign it'd be an odd sort of powergame since you'd essentially be paying for an extra 4 Marines in your Force list just to field a single heavy, plus the price of all their weapons, etc. so it'd be somewhat self-limiting. |
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| JimMacKay | 10 May 2015, 08:59 AM Post #3 |
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Corporal
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That's exactly my issue. And i had wanted to field my HH support teams, but we decided that was one of those times when mix and matching didn't work out so well. Grouping specials and heavies does let them share battle honors, making them potentially nasty for the price. Though it occurs to me, that the mechanic where if one model dies, another model in the group can pick up their dropped upgrade weapon, may not or may need adjustment when you have a team full of upgrade gear. And the group i'm with is decidedly casual and we are good for trying and testing anything, it's just a question of making a decision. Oh that's right, there's also the example of Command Squads, which can all have special weapons, or Sororitas command squads that can take all special or all heavy weapons. Though the command squad has a veteran profile, while support squads have standard troop profiles. So that may be a bollocks comparison. But yes, so to upgrade one model in a group with a new weapon goes from being like 5p to 75p As for balance, well that will have to be seen. If they allowed a limited number of assault marines but not a limited number of Devastators, there's probably a reason. Heavy weapons with suspensor webs in a kill team game… lascannons as assault weapons sounds horrifying. 1 or 2 of those on the field can be nifty, but 4 to 5 may be too damn much. |
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| Narmet | 10 May 2015, 08:08 PM Post #4 |
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Well, they do say each model in the Force can only hold one set of options at a time. So in a Group of heavies, trading off a weapon when a model died would potentially displace the other model's existing upgrade. And you have to field a "Group" together, all or none in a given Team, so that's also very limiting. You'd realistically only be able to field a Group of 2 or 3 heavies at a time, when you factor in having to bring along all the normal Tacs anyway in your Team. I'm glad your group is casual - experiment and let us know how it goes! It definitely would need a little house-ruling, though again, at roughly 30pts for a single plasma-marine it might not be so bad, even if you got rid of any Force/Team reqs. It'd be a powerful entry but still roughly a match for a squad of Gargoyles, a Power-Sword Chaos Terminator, or a Long Fang.
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7:34 PM Jul 11