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Space Marines trouble in 6th edition
Topic Started: 5 Feb 2013, 01:17 PM (458 Views)
deffberf
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Second Lieutenant
Hi Ammobunker, now have just started back to the hobby after xmas and have played 2 games with my guard against friends Imperial fist marines. Both times were win for guard although one was lucky with all the high objectives on my side in the scouring.

So not so bad but prior to that last year after 6th release my guard or my other forces like necrons or chaos wiped the floor with the marines 10 games to 0. We had a long hiatus over xmas so my marine mate could recover but now we got back its the same old again.

He has tried many many different force compositions as he has almost every model produced. There has been 2 stormtalons, 4 rhinos, 2 drop pods, oodles of marines and all sorts all chucked at me to no avail.

Is the marine codex having trouble with 6th? Are there any other marine players suffering out there? My friends main gripe is poor scout stats and that the marines are expensive to field.

I am asking as he is pulling his hair out and will be bald by the summer for sure !

Would any of the bunkerites have any tips for marines when going up against guard?

We usually play 1500 pt games. Any advice would be greatfully appreciated.

Just FYI here is approximately last weeks marine list with points removed...

Librarian

Dreadnought with plasma cannon

Squad 1 ten marines missile, plasma gun in Rhino
Squad 2 ten marines missile, plasma gun in Rhino
Squad 3 ten marines heavy bolter, flamer in Rhino
Squad 4 ten marines heavy bolter, flamer in Rhino

Landspeeder Typhoon with CML and heavy bolter.

Predator with autocannon and lascannon sponsons.

Aegis defence line.

So wheres he going wrong?

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# dean
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Grandmaster of Librarians
What is the Guard lists he is facing? What is the terrain like? How is he deploying? That looks like a Gunline list and gunline doesnt do very well with assault. I would add:

Vets (sternguard) with some power weapons as a counter assault unit

A vindi to chew big holes in hordes.

My preferred option tho is a LRC and Lightning claw Termies. Wont work against MeQs but will blenderize guard very well... The trick is to assault two units and direct most of the attacks into one so you have another one you are locked in combat with to survive the Guard shooting next turn.

Termies are very broken in 6th due to the AP adjustments on power weapons.
Edited by dean, 5 Feb 2013, 02:21 PM.
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deffberf
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Second Lieutenant
Thanks Dean for reply, heres my last two lists one stinky one filthy...
List A
lord commisar
ratling squad of 8
penal legion squad of 10
penal legion squad of 10
Veteran squad of 10 with 3 melta gun
Vendetta w h/bolter sponsons
Leman russ punisher w h/bolter all round
Avenger Fighter from Forgewrold Aeronautica
Aegis Defence Line
Allies...
Saint Celestine
10 battle sisters with special weapons and power axe
penitent engine

List B
3 Medusa artillery
ratling squad of 8
Aegis Defence Line

Vendetta w h/bolter sponsons
Chimera w m/laser
Chimera w m/laser
Captain Al raheem
Platoon with 1 PCS and 2 infantry units all with vox and auto cannon
Mortar Squad
Veteran squad of 10 with 3 melta gun
lord commisar

What do you think are my lists ok or cheesey?

Edit: Just to add other answers.
The terrain is standard 6x4 table with random density terrain usually 1-3 pieces in each 2x2 square, consisting of different types of cover save from 3+ to 5+.
Deployment was rhino rush on sunday, all up front save for a few combat squads at back with missile launcher. Last week was 2 drop pods with one arriving on turn 1 and other on turn 2 and an assault unit combat squadded arriving via deep strike. Rest of stuff milled at back.
Hope that helps!
Edited by deffberf, 6 Feb 2013, 01:33 PM.
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☺spikyjames
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I am the Eightfold Path
Not read any of the posts below the list posted but straight off of the bat he hasn't got anywhere enough fire power in there, this edition seems alot more focused of being able to shoot (alot) with decent strength weapons.

If anything vanilla marines have got slightly better in 6th, combat tactics is now pretty good!

From that list I'd straight up drop the dread and 2 of the tactical squads and probably drop the pred for a vindi (as dean has already suggested) look at getting a couple of storm talons in there (either with missile or las) and look at multi meltas and flamers on the land speeder and possibly give the speeder a couple of friends.

I'd maybe go with something like this if you can squeeze it in;

Libby, termi+Sshield (Null zone/gate of infinity)
5x TH/SS termies

2x tac squads, only one with a rhino

2x storm talons, arm as above
3x speeders, multimeltas/flamers

vindicator or 2

should give him alot more punch.

I qualified for the Indy GT Final with something not too dislimilar, had a couple of shooty contemptors, the armies were 1850 points.

James
Edited by spikyjames, 7 Feb 2013, 06:43 PM.
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deffberf
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Second Lieutenant
Thanks Spikyjames, thats a very helpful post. Might even use it myself for my marines :D

This weekend was a shocker my gaming partner turned up with tau and a little bit of guard allies and kicked my butt.

I lost focus and forgot to keep a troops unit on my objective had I done that I would have won. So it was mine to lose, shame on me :D Nevermind though there will be a next time.

The most successful unit in the tau was a unit of 2 broadsides with 2 gun drones. These guys did most of the damage. Am now retraining my guard to shoot these chaps as a priority.
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Brother Vogt
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Captain
I'd agree with your friend throwing one or more Storm Talons in. As a Guard player thats something I always fear seeing.
Also, some form of Land Raider would be very helpful to him. It's high armour and high HP is gonna help it survive and it'll churn out kills too. Esp the crusader or redeemer.
And for the most part rhino's just dont seem to do the job these days imho. They get glanced to death and you cant rhino rush any more. Just drive up, jump out and shoot in the hope you can take whatever comes back....

Hope this helps.
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deffberf
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Second Lieutenant
Thanks Brother Vogt but I am sure he is not reading this post after showing it to him. This week he went back to marines and failed. More through poor judgement than army selection in that he did my trick and didnt claim his objective with troops 1/4 inch too far away from objective! Then in the game Land raider redeemer got stuck out of range of flame cannons "oops" the 2 rhinos and vindicator behind the land raider went pop too. So you are right Rhinos arent what they used tio be.
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Penguin of Death
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Lieutenant
Haven't used my Marines yet so I'll soon be trying a variety of tactics, though lookingat what's available I definitely want to be podding some Sternguard onto an unsuspecting army, possibly with a teleport homer to bring in termis afterwards
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Rebis_uk
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Corporal
Now Death from the skies is out, he could now take a stormraven with some TH/SS Termies inside for a bit of a deathstar unit. Im not sure how that would work out against IG though.

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