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6th Ed changes; Little things you like
Topic Started: 10 Jul 2012, 06:51 PM (651 Views)
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Lieutenant
Firstly, this is not intended to be a slagging thread for the new rules. Please fell free to discuss the points raised, but at the end of the day it is just a game.

So, having finally taken the time to read through the new rules rather than picking bits up from the online community, there are a few points which I like. Overall I think that this is the closest to the fantasy ruleset that it has been, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Overwatch: seems like a nice new addition, BS1 shouldn't make it too overpowering and it should add a new element.
Characters: needs a little clarification about whether it is characters in a traditional sense, or all sgts etc. The rules for hits on a 6 seem cool and challenges could be interesting, especially if you turn down the challenge.
Weaponry: snap shots could be good and makes the prospect of moving your units around for best effect a little better. The changes to power weapons make things a little more complex- they are less all powerful and character weapons may need an FAQ of their own, but hey, not too much work. Hopefully it will make combats a little less one sided or force people to balance lists a little more.
Psychics: having a save against powers regardless should stop them being too powerful, be interested to see if that means more or less use.
Vehicles: hull points should give them a little more survivability, but the changes to AP rules mean that I think we will see more of these in regular use.
Charging: the option for 2D6 charges makes gun line armies have to think a little more, but you don't want your prized assault unit to find themselves stuck in front of the enemy for an extra turn. Need to give this a go.

Little tweaks to other things such as Feel No Pain could be good, though I think that by comparison the number of little special rules thrown in, plus the addition of flyers means that it will take people a little longer to grasp things effectively, bt hopefully this means that there will be more flexibility in armies rather than the same list just in differing colours.


So, what do we all think?
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Brambleten
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The Red Hood
currently in the process of reading it cover to cover and havent started the special rules yet, but the basic stuff so far that has caught my eye -
Overwatch and Snap-shot, as mentioned above. nice additions.

The closest model dying first. If there is a lot of variation in the squad this could get quite tedious (wolf guard all with different weapon combos get x wounds on them, since they will all be different you need to roll the dice one at a time to see if you kill the first man until you kill him, rather than rolling x dice killing the first x men). at least thats the way i understand it, but i think it should work well (and makes sense)

Look out sir - havent seen this before in 40k (probably because its new, but i didnt really read the old rules back to front, more just adjusted as i played), but its a nice feature of fantasy and it makes sense to have it here as well.
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# Digits
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Hull points actually make them less survivable, with glances being cumulative, meaning lower strength weapons are now more effective against vehicles is how I read it.

The number of hull points or a land raider seems low to the fluff. There is a definite move to make it more of an infantry game and they are pushing flyers. It does force people to use more infantry in support of vehicles ie screening, and will force you to think about hugging cover. Most vehicles will prove useful for the first turn or two, being able to fire more often than before as shaken / stunned is nerfed but will begin to die about turn three / four. This does mean you will have to use your chimera or rhino to barrel you across the table and into combat early.

Probably will suit today's collector as tanks are expensive, but it does Smart a little as I love tanks. I will have to get used to it.


I'm personally annoyed that they are making it too much like the fantasy game. It's a little insulting to think we cant manage to master two differing game systems. Saying that, I'll give it a go before getting too wound up.
Edited by Digits, 10 Jul 2012, 07:10 PM.
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Lieutenant
Digits- fair points on HPs, hadn't looked at it that way.

The idea of pre-measuring all of your targets in the shooting phase is new to me, only offset by the fact that you can only assault those you shoot, and then only with the correct weaponry.

Look out sir is the most fantasy addition to me, could be fun.

The idea of starting with the closest enemy for wounds should make people think more about their movement rather than just piling forward, and does reduce trying to apply all of your wounds, but could make the whole process rather drawn out
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# Marovian
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Having played only one game, I did find the vehicle rules get balanced. Yes, you lose a little survivability, but on the plus side you don't keep losing the ability to move/shoot. Too often in the old edition my tanks just ended up moving around because they were stunned/shaken until that lucky shot finally took them out.

Hull points are ok, but I find it odd that a Leman Russ (main battle tank according to the fluff) has the same as a marine Dreadnought. Ok, I know Marines are tough, but that is a little odd to me. I think the Russ should perhaps be one higher (or perhaps extra armour could now add an extra point).

Challenge wise, if you look in the appendixs, then yes, sergeants are characters. This allows you, if your unit is attacked by a powerful character to sacrfice your weak IG sgt to negate multliple killer blows from a hero.

Snap fire works well, good idea of firing from the hip. I think you will start to see more short range fire fights. Overwatch is intersting as well, makes your opponenet thinks twice.

Random charge lengths I like. We had the classic "anything but a double 1" moment for my mates GK to make the charge. They failed and died horribly as a result.

Interactive terrain I can see being uself (although I think it's clearly been written to sell more terrain!). Ruins for example give you +2 to going to ground. So stick an IG squad in ruins, hide a command squad behind it, and with orders, voila, you have IG termie equivalents. IG players - put your objectives in ruins!

Haven't played with the flyers yet, so can't really comment. Looking forward to large scale apocalypse with flyers zooming around though. Still annoyed they have ignored the fluff and made Hydras snap fire only at ground units.

I think that the closest unit first rule makes you think a bit more carefully about where you place your models. However, it does mean with multi wound models getting shot at from different directions, can you end up with wounds spread all over the place?
Edited by Marovian, 10 Jul 2012, 07:26 PM.
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vincent1989
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played and watched a few games now and on the whole it's currently leagues ahead of 5th however 5th was ruined by codex creep, the same may yet happen to 6th.

Like the changes to power weapons, like the changes to shooting, the addition of fliers, snap fire, hull points, decreased cover saves, changes to combat and the changes made to psychic powers (casting of and, perils and psychic hoods in particular!), like how blasts vs units in buildings are no longer wasted just because they don't hit the level you initially aimed at, like that characters can not be singled out in CC (other than challenges), like allies.

not a fan of pre-measuring but having played many different systems I'm pretty used to it now, dislike how wound allocation works, it's too clunky, not a fan of challenges.

the reason I don't like the last two is that they disrupt the flow of the game too much as far as I'm concerned.
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Brambleten
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Having had more of a look through the rules, more things have come to my attention.

Power Weapons - Overall i like the changes so its not just one bog standard thing and that terminator armour can now be something more than a 5+ invul giver against them. It just means i need to look more closely at what i arm my men with in future, as rule of cool might not always be the best option now.

Precision shots - with the changes to wound allocation this is nice.

Challenges - This I like the concept of. especially the unit v 1 model type with the re-rolls for the units chosen champion given by having a lot of men cheering him on.
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# the_great_gonzo
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Brambleten
10 Jul 2012, 07:01 PM

Look out sir - havent seen this before in 40k (probably because its new, but i didnt really read the old rules back to front, more just adjusted as i played), but its a nice feature of fantasy and it makes sense to have it here as well.
Didn't this use to be a rule for IG commander bodyguards? (might just have been Nork).

Decreased cover saves makes some sense, I never understood how a man in a flak jacket could stand behind a wall and be better protected against high strength weapons than a marine in termie armour was.

Random charge lengths are always a good laugh in WFB, nothing more enjoyable than the Uber-unit-of-doom charging and falling short by a couple of inches....whoops!
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Lieutenant
Little things like movement only applying to figures that move, rather than units a s a whole seem to be getting a lot of use. Leave the heavy still, conga line the rest and still get full effect
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little brother
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Warrant Officer First Class
I like the little details like overwatch, look out sir and jumping/falling down from terrain.

The variation in power weapons is good because I have a few axes and spears in my wolfguard and now they can fight differently as well as look cool.

The hammer fall for cavalry, bikes and jumptroops is good.

Beasts can now move as fast as bikes.

I have just spotted GUNSLINGER. A model equiped with 2 pistols can fire both. I already had a couple of Space Wolves armed with 2 bolt pistols just for the look of it, now I can have them with a 2 plasma pistols, or a plasma and a bolt pistol and blast away.
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deffberf
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Question came up this weekend during a game. Is it possible to use rapid fire when shooting overwatch at chargers? I just assumed it was just one shot unless it was a weapon with assault 2 or 3 or something.
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# El Diablo
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Yup, weapon fires normally (unless it's normally restricted by overwatch or snap fire) it just fires at BS1 as per snap fire rules - rapid fire gets 2 shots, assault/heavy get their number of shots etc.
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