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| Have Stupid Questions - Need Obvious Answers; Particularly about wargear | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 15 May 2010, 04:00 AM (2,196 Views) | |
| Justedd_233 | 15 May 2010, 04:00 AM Post #1 |
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Warrant Officer First Class
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Okay everybody, here is my situation. I started playing Chaos Space Marines about a year ago, and I have a lot of dumb questions on how they work, but every time I ask a question I get a different response, so here goes. Question 1: The wargear section for most troops (here is the IG infantry squad entry for example) reads like: "Wargear: flak armor, lasgun (Sergeant is armed with a laspistol instead) frag grenades and CCW" However, the wargear entry for Chaos Space marines reads: "Wargear: power armor, bolt pistol, frag-krak grenades, CCW, bolter" Now for the longest time I thought that meant (much like the IG infantry squad) that the sergeant had a pistol and CCW, and the marines had bolters. But then I was told that it meant that the whole squad could have either bolters, or pistols and CCW's to make some kind of diet-assault squad. And then another guy told me that CSM have both options, meaning they count as having bolters and pistols and CCW's. Simply put, I want to know just how all the CSM's I have in my Word Bearers army work. Can I have a gunline of bolters in turn 1, then pull out the pistols and chainswords in turn 2? Or does the pistol and CCW only apply to CSM's who are already stuck in combat? I would greatly appreciate any input on this one. Question 2 is about berserkers, but I'll save that one for later as this post is already waaay too long. Thanks in advance! |
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| # Marovian | 15 May 2010, 11:33 AM Post #2 |
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Ginger Law Enforcer
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I would read that as CSM have a bolter, a bolt pistol AND a CCW. Makes them pretty nasty. |
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| ☺Dave38x | 15 May 2010, 11:35 AM Post #3 |
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DubDubDubDubDub
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i would read that the same way. in other words they are rather powerful... |
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| Brambleten | 15 May 2010, 12:21 PM Post #4 |
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The Red Hood
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yep, they have all 3, to suit whichever situation they find themselves in, whether shooty or combat. simply put, you can use any of the wargear you want in any given turn. if you want to fire bolters turn 1 and then fire bolt pistols turn 2, its OK ![]() so what was question 2? |
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| Justedd_233 | 15 May 2010, 12:44 PM Post #5 |
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Warrant Officer First Class
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Great! Thanks for the simple answers guys, on to Question 2, the even simpler one. Question 2: How many attacks do Berserkers actually have? It seems like an easy question, but again I get different answers to everyone I speak to. The codex says they have two attacks, but they also have a pistol and CCW, so logically they have three attacks, four on the charge, five for the Aspiring Champion on the charge. (Sheesh) But another fella I spoke to said they have one less attack, since the mark of khorne and the pistol CCW are both included in the stat line, which once I thought about sounded like a berserker starts with 0 attacks and ends up with two by virtue of his wargear. His words. Can AB set the record straight? Edited by Justedd_233, 16 May 2010, 12:19 AM.
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| Zaamel | 15 May 2010, 10:34 PM Post #6 |
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Second Lieutenant
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The way I read it, they have 3 attacks, and 4 on the charge, 5 for the skull champion. |
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| ☺highmarshaldave | 15 May 2010, 11:11 PM Post #7 |
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Urban Leg-End
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Yep, unless implicitly stated, like Terminator honours, wargear attacks are not included in a standard stat line. Dave out. |
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| Justedd_233 | 16 May 2010, 12:19 AM Post #8 |
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Warrant Officer First Class
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Again thanks for the great answers you guys! Now Question 3 (insert ominous music here) Question 3: Firing heavy weapons from a transports firing points. Now I was always under the impression that a fire point (in this case, lets say a chimera firing point) was something the infantry fired their lasguns out of (after all, thats why chimera kits have lasgun ports, right?) But I have been told that heavy hitters like heavy weapon teams and devastators can fire their heavy weapons from the fire points on their transports (as long as they stay still in the moving phase, being heavy and all), is this true? Can a chimera fire a lascannon(s) out of its top hatch? In a similar but different situation, I was told that a Psyker Battle Squad can fire its psychic powers from the firing points as well, since the soulstorm power is an assault power, does that mean a chimera can move then fire off a S:1-9 AP:D6 large blast? |
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| Silent Gallows | 16 May 2010, 10:59 AM Post #9 |
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Lieutenant
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You can fire any weapons from a firing point (except on the chimeras lasgun ports where you can only fire lasguns, but can fire anything from the top hatch) So yes you can fire heavy weapons and I guess you can fire the Psykers powers from it too as it is a ranged attack. i think it might also be the case that if you fire weapons from the top hatch of a chimera it becomes open topped for that turn (inc opponents turn) although that might just have been in the old rules. Also in answer to question 2 I don't think they gain an extra attack from pistol and ccw as they are also carrying a bolter. But you can fire the pistols and then charge so thats the bonus of carrying pistols. Again that might have just been in the previous rules edition (I am a little rusty on rules like that) might have a read of the rules later and edit this post.
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| Roesor | 16 May 2010, 02:16 PM Post #10 |
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Warrant Officer First Class
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Yup, you can fire anything out of it, like a Rhino can have say a dev' squad in it fire two of their heavy weapons O.o It means you can move the veichle 12 and then still have the heavy weapons range too, shiny as hell. CSM Have all three weapons, and this is indeed because they are nasty mo'fo's O.o basically they can fire their boltguns, then strap it to their leg and draw for close combat for the next turn. It is one of the reasons why I'm considering taking them for my next army, and I'm hoping when templars are updated they will get the same. |
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| Justedd_233 | 16 May 2010, 08:18 PM Post #11 |
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Warrant Officer First Class
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But if they fire their boltguns in their shooting phase, then get assaulted in the opponents assault phase, do they keep their boltguns for 1 attack or yank out the pistol and chainsword for 2 attacks? Once again thanks for the great answers you guys! Now on to Question 4, another light one. Question 4: Do Chaos Rhino's come equipped with a hatch mounted twin-linked bolter? A Chaos Rhino's wargear states that it has a twin-linked bolter, and can be upgraded with, wait for it, a twin-linked bolter. Does this mean that rhinos come standard with a twin-linked bolter, and buying another one means you have two? And if so, how is that representable? I've tried fitting two of those top hatch bits to a rhino, and they do not fit. Keep the obvious answers coming- I've got plenty of stupid questions! Edited by Justedd_233, 16 May 2010, 08:20 PM.
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| ☺Dave38x | 16 May 2010, 08:29 PM Post #12 |
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DubDubDubDubDub
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they are armed with a boltgun, a bolt pistol and a close combat weapon. If they shoot with their boltguns and are then assaulted, they still have a bolt pistol and a close combat weapon in there wargear, therefore they get a bonus attack for having two CCWs. If the wargear states it has one then it has one. If there is an upgrade for one, i guess it can take two. I'd model one as a remote gun in the other hatch if i were to take that approach. (use a blank plate or something, stick a gun and an aiming lense to the top of it sort of thing) |
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| Brambleten | 16 May 2010, 09:03 PM Post #13 |
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The Red Hood
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Answer 4 - if it starts with one twin-linked bolter and you can buy another one, you can have two of them ![]() as for where to put it on a model, as there 2 cupolas at the front on the top of the rhino? you should be able to mount one on a stationary platform (as if automated) and the second should fit on a pintle with a guy firing it. if not, then some random chaos mutation conversion may be needed to give it a way of staying on |
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| Justedd_233 | 19 May 2010, 03:04 AM Post #14 |
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Warrant Officer First Class
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Thanks for all the answers! This thread is really clearing up some foggy rules for me. Onto Question 5! Question 5: What are standard / icon bearers armed with? Does the standard count as a close combat weapon? What about the power sword that the Vostroyan standard bearer has? Is that even legal? I've been playing it as having just a pistol, so my CSM icon bearers have 1 attack, and 2 on the charge. Is this right? |
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| ☺highmarshaldave | 19 May 2010, 06:27 AM Post #15 |
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Urban Leg-End
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My understanding (as an ex staffer ) has always been that a model had to use the same wargear combination in your opponent's subsequent turn as you used in your own turn meaning, in the example stated, the CSM wouldn't get a bonus attack if charged.Dave out. |
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| Roesor | 19 May 2010, 07:46 AM Post #16 |
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Warrant Officer First Class
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That's what I was thinking, there has to be negatives after all, I'd play it safe and if twelve inches away after movement have half rapid fire and half use pistols, or ask for a house ruling on it beforehand. As for the rhino, it has what it says it has in the codex. But maybe take a look at the FAQ on the GW website to see if it's a printing error or somesuch. |
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| J.D | 19 May 2010, 03:26 PM Post #17 |
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Corporal
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Standard (and icon) bearers are armed with the same armament as the rest of the squad as the option entry says "One model may be given one of the following Icons:" Which means the Icon is taken in addition to his standard equipment/wargear. Also with Chaos Marines having bolt pistols, Close combat weapons and Bolters if they fire their bolters in your turn they can still use bolt pistols and close combat weapons in combat if charged. ( Its how I have always used mine in tournaments and against GW staff ) Hope that helps J.D p.s the vostroyan standard bears are selected though a series of duels and competitions so I'd say it's a dueling saber not a power weapon. |
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| donanton | 19 May 2010, 04:56 PM Post #18 |
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Warrant Officer First Class
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Question for the answer to question 1 But doesn't it say in the rule book that you only gain an extra attack if you have 2 of the same ccw? Aren't pistols counted as pistols, not something to hit someone with? |
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| Brambleten | 19 May 2010, 10:09 PM Post #19 |
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The Red Hood
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no, pistols count as a CCW. as far as i know, its power fists, thunder hammers, lightening claws (and varients) only that require 2 of the same weapon to get the extra CCW bonus. power sword and pistol would give you the extra attack, for example |
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| Justedd_233 | 20 May 2010, 09:40 PM Post #20 |
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Warrant Officer First Class
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Guess that means that CSM's with flamers and heavy bolters also get the attack, right? Conversely, does that mean that the Aspiring Champion has a bolter? Because I don't think mine can fit his powerfist around the grip
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) has always been that a model had to use the same wargear combination in your opponent's subsequent turn as you used in your own turn meaning, in the example stated, the CSM wouldn't get a bonus attack if charged.
8:25 AM Jul 11