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Football Hooliganism; West Ham v Millwall
Topic Started: 26 Aug 2009, 02:15 PM (337 Views)
owentillier
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Warrant Officer Second Class
Chaps,

I spent a lot of last night dodging missiles, police batons and vast crowds of Millwall whilst attempting to watch some footy at Upton Park. Pretty horrendous stuff, lots of lunacy etc.

My question is this; is it ok to suggest a 'wargame' based upon football hooliganism?

The games we play at the moment are based upon war and killing anyway so is a game based upon simply fighting with the occasional death any worse?

Discuss!
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☺lavadude360
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Owen I have to say that because people can "distance" themselves from the legions of dead and superhuman nazi's etc. They can accept "Blood for the Blood God" and Slaanesh the lord of porn. But Once you start making thing with a relevancy to what the majority ((read idiots in the public)read public) can/have experienced then you raise ethical issues.

For example: If I re-inact the battle of hastings thats fine and dandy but if I go to vietnam and do the same thing then it stirs up bad memories. In just the same way that saying "The vikings raped and pillaged their way across Northern Europe" is fine and you can joke about it, because people aren't thinking about actual norsemen raping actual people, they imagine ginger fellows with spikes on their helmets and women from a carry-on film.

It's all about distance, if the general public are distanced from the event then it's perfectly okay to set something there but if it's close to them then "oh no sonny jim!" See my point?

Now I am not against you doing this as it's only a game and life is too short to get worked up about these things. But some people will object.

And as a closing statement I was at St.James' Park last season and got my forehead split by a coin. :'(

Emboldened Dave
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Corrupt
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Pffft. Am sure a real riot would be bloody scary, but whats fun is helping the RAF regiment do their "public order" training. Get paid to turn up, throw flour, eggs, bricks, tvs and everything else within a mile radius and a sheild line then brawl.
And afterwards go for a beer with the guys you were hitting and have a laugh about it!

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Silent Gallows
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I almost got caught up in Milwall rioting when they were playing southampton a few weeks ago. I didn't even know there was a match on until me, my gf and another friend were stood in a eerily quiet high street when suddenly about 100 milwal fans came round the corner and started running down the road towards us throwing chairs/ bottles etc. A pub landlord took pity on us and let us into his closed pub to hid for an hour! Was quite scary!
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Daemon-Forge
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this is why i think football should be banned! that would soon stop people running around smashing things because there team was shitter than the other.

a game based on it tho sounds intresting
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Schoolcormorant
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owentillier
26 Aug 2009, 02:15 PM

My question is this; is it ok to suggest a 'wargame' based upon football hooliganism?
Well why don't we have a game of Kerplunk based on 9/11?

I think you'd have to be careful, a lot of people are killed/maimed/injured as a result and I don't think having a special edition of White Dwarf with "The Hillsborough" expansion pack is the best way to honour the memories of these people...

SC
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Brambleten
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The Red Hood
It is horrific, but then there is the fact that worse things go on at football matches around the world. i was reading about some Argentinian football teams that are pretty much bankrupt because the local mafia's are scaring everyone away from the grounds. no people = no money = no footy :(
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☺charlie_c67
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Plus we are no where near as bad as in Italy, the throw flaming mopeds at each other. Yet they're allowed to continue in european events....
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# Digits
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Shadowkin
Would it be any different to say Grand Theft Auto or any of a dozen games based on glorifying the worst dregs of society?

Anyway Owen, you don't need to make a game based on mindless violence, you'll be taking to the field this weekend against our glorious boys won't you? lol
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☺The Antipope
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Why not just play Bloodbowl?
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THX_1138
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Is it OK to wargame football hooliganism?

Someone seems to think so!
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☺The Antipope
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The more I've thought about it the more the idea repels me. Coming from Sheffield where Hillsborough is still very much in the public consciousness then....no. Just no.

I'm surprised having witnessed such violence yourself recently that you'd wan't to take that experience and make it into a game. Some people are lucky to get out of situations like that with their heads still on.
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owentillier
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Good advice guys

Im not really saying i personally want to, rather putting forward the idea as a hypothesis. In fact reading the reasoned responses here im pretty sure i dont want to. The point about injuries doesnt really follow though as many people here play games based on the horrific violence of actual war rather than street fighting. Also, having witnessed the stuff up close and personal made me realise how futile and ridiculous it is.

Perhaps turning it into a game is the best way to showcase it for the ridiculous 'game' that it is. Albeit a game that involves injury and death.

So, no, i wont be starting up a 'firm' of miniatures, ill stick with the greenskinned hooligans! I agree with lavadue, its too raw. Whereas WW2 probably isnt for most of us here including me and my panzer division.
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☺The Antipope
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I do know what you are getting at when you say boundaries are blurring. After all, if games are made of WW2 in which millions died then why not a hooliganism game? I'm sure the number of people dead through football violence can't top a thousand so it's the lesser evil in theory...

It goes back to the death of one soldier being a tragedy, but the death of millions being a statistic. WW2 and indeed nearly all wars have had gigantic death tolls that are beyond any real human comprehension, whereas a smaller incident of random violence which affects dozens, perhaps hundreds is all the more comprehensible.

It says something about us as human beings I suppose. Interesting.
Edited by The Antipope, 27 Aug 2009, 12:03 AM.
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Shadowphrakt
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Daemon-Forge
26 Aug 2009, 04:11 PM
this is why i think football should be banned! that would soon stop people running around smashing things because there team was shitter than the other.

a game based on it tho sounds intresting
Then they'll move onto to Tennis riots :D Could you imagine that!?
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# Marovian
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Ginger Law Enforcer
I personally see no reason why you couldn't produce this game, although how it would be received is anyones guess. I do believe there was a computer game a few years ago where you controlled hooligans and no one liked it - some places wouldn't even sell it.

Of course, if you approach it right, you can help this. If it was just about hooligans, that is bad, but if you included say Police as a "Codex" or other good guys, you could market the hooligans as the bad guys. That takes the sting out of it slightly. Imagine 40k if all the sides were say Khorne and just about killing. It wouldn't be half as agreeable as it it. If you have a foil for the bad guys, and the chance to play someone noble and hammer the bad guys, it becomes more of a game rather than something gloryfying violence.


As a side note, I'd play the police, because clearly I don't get enough of it at work.
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☺The Antipope
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Marovian
27 Aug 2009, 09:33 AM
I don't get enough of it at work.
Who does darling?
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