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3 skyrays why not?; unsportsman like? probably.
Topic Started: 9 Apr 2009, 09:20 AM (508 Views)
15W
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Corporal
I've never seen an army go f#%k it 3 skyrays, deal with 18 seeker missiles. the general feel of the army was going to be
HQ crisis suit commander and two buddies

troops X2
6 fire warriors marker drones and devil fish

elites
x2 10 pathfinders with devilfish.

heavy
x3 skyrays.

note that each devilfish may have 2 seekers so at around 1500 i believe i can get 26 seeker missiles at 13 or so on the first turn.( i believe they can fire 2 seekers per vehicle per turn the wording is a little fluffy)

in concept the army is a little weak for actual fire and troop stances but heavy on marker lights and scoring units with a really quite nasty barrage of missiles that i would like to see an army take standing up.

those missiles could easily be spaced out to break most units causing panic.

in theory at least so I've never heard of an army with more than one skyray its not listed as a 0-1 and its pretty cheap for the bang so why doesn't anyone play it? unsport man like??

thoughts welcome i don't have the prices nailed down but im pretty sure its wiggleable.

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# Digits
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If you played them like this, my concern would be that the enemies initial targets would of course be the rays. Don't be fooled that their shield thingies would be much help against concentrated fire. Against guard for example, they would be decimated by ordnance.

Saying that, I will always encourage someone to collect unique one horse armies just to show something different on the field. I don't play Tau, but I've beaten them a few times ( :P ) and I would advise with that many missiles, you need to split up your pathfinders a little and maximise the number of markerlights.

In answer to your question, the reason you don't see so many fielded is probably because the hammerhead is pretty lethal.
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Brambleten
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The Red Hood
Digits
 
In answer to your question, the reason you don't see so many fielded is probably because the hammerhead is pretty lethal.


what Digits said. also theres the fact that Sky Rays are 1 trick ponies. their missiles take out tanks (or try to) and on anything else (apart from termies and other elites) they seem pretty wasted just firing one missile at a unit. however, the Hammerhead gives you (if you go railcannon) a very good anti tank weapon, and a very good anti infantry weapon.

besides, after your missiles run out, what do you do with them? ram them into enemy tanks?
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fiendil
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Brambleten
9 Apr 2009, 01:01 PM
what Digits said. also theres the fact that Sky Rays are 1 trick ponies. their missiles take out tanks (or try to) and on anything else (apart from termies and other elites) they seem pretty wasted just firing one missile at a unit. however, the Hammerhead gives you (if you go railcannon) a very good anti tank weapon, and a very good anti infantry weapon.

besides, after your missiles run out, what do you do with them? ram them into enemy tanks?
Normally, an expended Skyray gives you two very mobile Markerlights that can light stuff up for the rest of your army, but, that list doesn't have much of a "rest of the army". Tbh, I'd personally rather 2 Railheads backed up by 1 Ray, rather than 3 Rays.

I've also had fun with SMS on the thing, as, if something else is providing Markerlights, then the Ray can be sat behind blocking terrain launching SMS and Seeker fire indirectly into the enemy. That works less well in 5th though, due to the lack of blocking terrain.

(15W: Pathfinders are Fast Attack, not Elite.)
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Lt.Gregor
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Interesting Idea, but you better unload those missile really, really, really fast cuz If I were playing you thos things would be the frist to drop, concertrated fire from almost any army....... except probly Dark eldar (then it's CC you got to worry about) will smoke those things fast. Then you've lost the whole point behind the army, plus the lack of marker lights with the rest of the army you might not be able to unload the amount your after. If your looking for Tank Kill power, you for Hammer Heads with a Rail gun or a broad side team, both have a better punch and can smoke tanks easy. If you want anti-horde fire power, prehaps look at hammer heads with Rail Guns and use the secondary fire option.

IF you got any questions I know a little about Tau.
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fiendil
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Lt.Gregor
9 Apr 2009, 03:54 PM
the lack of marker lights with the rest of the army you might not be able to unload the amount your after.
The 2 units of Pathfinders and 2 of FWs make somewhere in the region of 24 Markerlights...
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15W
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its really just a what if? as i build my initial few units i already bought. from my understanding ( i don't think im allowed to post exact rules am i?) the seekers are actually not bad at all versus infantry i read a few reviews and one on advanced tau tactics was saying that " firing one ore two at an infantry unit gives the tau player the ability to say " please remove half of those models" a small blast with pretty good power and great range seems like it could do it but i haven't played 5th yet or any warhammer in a few years actually. im just getting back into it.
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darkseer
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Hi 15W,

As a competitive Tau player, I can tell you with great certainty that all you need is 1 Sky Ray.

The Sky Ray is a support unit that comes in handy, but can never form the back bone of a Tau army.
Also, this list has so many markerlights, but not enough actual guns to back it up.

The Tau are probably the most balanced army in 40K, which is both good and bad, but this means that you need to take a hollistic approach and take a little bit of everything.

What I will suggest is that you read my Warhammer Tau Blog and in particular the post about my time at a recent tournament and the tactics I learned (feel free to borrow the army list) HERE.

Tau are not an easy army to play and while I'd love to type out all the tactics behind them here, it's much easier to point you at my blog.
Edited by darkseer, 10 Apr 2009, 07:53 AM.
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15W
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wonderful articles darkseer and good advice.
i had been weighing that rail guns might be a better tactic. maybe taking a pair of seekers on devil fish and just one skyray will provide all the missiles i need since i find it hard to find enough targets to shoot with that amount of marker squads running about.

so two heavy support choices are free the rail head is a good mobile platform but if i took a team of broadsides Id get allot more total railings and a better chance for kills since they were twin linked and more numerous.

i have a stealth team and a kroot squad i wouldn't mind using but really don't love the kroot that much. i can see their use in holding up an enemy while u aim guns at the area.

mostly it seems to me that in tau you want an abundance of destructive guns and a good set of mobile market lights to facilitate them. Or at least that's one approach.
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darkseer
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Yes you need markerlights, but only to eliminate key threats.
You'll never meed more than 4 markerlights at most uin 1500-1750pts game.
I find I only need 2 with the Sly Ray because the tank is so survivable (mostly because people ignore it).

Seeker Missiles are RUBBISH. Do not buy them.
They come as a freebie on the Sky Ray and I am STILL yet to fire one! lol

Yep, the Tau need lots of mobile guns and a couple of mobile marker lights to give the units that need a boost the extra ballistic skill, or reduce cover saves.
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fiendil
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darkseer
11 Apr 2009, 06:22 AM
Seeker Missiles are RUBBISH. Do not buy them.
You don't rate em on Piranha, for cheeky hits on side armour?
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darkseer
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Piranhas are only good for getting fusion blasters in close, but even then they give away 2 kill points (1 for vehicle, 1 for drones)

I'm still yet to play mine. But seeker missiles are far too costly for what they do.

railguns are your main source of anti tank with markerlights to boost BS and reduce cover save.
For example, I often get 2 markerlight hits on an enemy tank (targeting array on Sky Ray).
I then give my Broadside team +1 to hit and give the enemy tank -1 cover save.

So now my Broadsides are pretty much guaranteed 2 hits (due to boosted Ballistic Skill and rerolls from win linked railguns). My opponent's tank gets a 5+ cover save, instead of 4+, so he WILL fail at least 1 of those rolls unless he's extremely lucky.

Then the Strength 10 shot should go straight through the armour and as you get +1 to your roll on the vehicle damage table because a railgun is AP1 you should destroy whatever you're shooting.
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fiendil
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darkseer
11 Apr 2009, 09:35 PM
they give away 2 kill points (1 for vehicle, 1 for drones)
Gah. I'd not twigged that.

So the only sensible way to throw in Piranha would be as a big unit of 3-5, so the drones can be split off as one unit, making the kill point cost a little less horrible.
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☺Dave38x
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DubDubDubDubDub
aaah, you make a good point darkseer of reducing the oppenent vehicle's cover save :) hadnt thought of that one before!

And personally i find seeker missiles arent that good, i'd rather employ markerlights for the boosted BS/reduced coversave etc... I'm a hammerhead man, cant go wrong with two of those and lots of suits and fire warriors :)

And fiendil, two units of pathfinders and two FW squads makes 18 MLs (two 8 man squads of PF, one ML per FW squad) And believe me those pathfinders will be wiped out rather fast by anyone who knows the markerlight rules...
Edited by Dave38x, 13 Apr 2009, 02:48 AM.
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fiendil
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Dave38x
13 Apr 2009, 02:47 AM
And fiendil, two units of pathfinders and two FW squads makes 18 MLs (two 8 man squads of PF, one ML per FW squad)
Ah, I didn't spot that. The OP has 2 x 10 Pathfinder, when the squad limit is 8.

Each FW leader can take 2 drones with his Drone Controller tho, can't he?
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15W
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heh i look quite the fool its been a while since i built an army list ill check my markins more carefully in the future as appose to just what ifs. yes a drone controller states a control of 2 drones. so is the mobility of hammer heads better than the firepower of broadsides? If i want maximum rails id take 2 broadside units and a railhead or maximum mobile fire id take 2 railheads and one broad side? are sniper teams any good for tau they really dont seem that great
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☺Dave38x
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Fiendil: Yes he can, but at 25 points (iirc) per drone, its a waste of points. for two drones you could field five more fire warriors, which is 5 more pulse rifles, which is not a bad thing...

15w: the mobility and adaptability is, certainly in non competetive games vastly superior, especially when facing guard or eldar. The reason being that Submunitions blast is just fantastic for killing squads, and having two hammerheads on task to do that is wicked, because you can switch between armour and infantry targets. However, when something absolutely has to be killed, broadsides are the way forwards due to the twin linkedness and rock hardness that they have :)
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15W
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twinlinkeness and rock hardness? i love it. well i love the railguns, guess for now ill just order one of each a railhead and a broadside team :). and if you ask me the "when something just has to die" applies to everything not dressed like me.
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