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New Forthcoming Guard; Inc Valk & stuff from Design Studio Day
Topic Started: 8 Feb 2009, 09:53 PM (28,088 Views)
Penguin of Death
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Lieutenant
On the other hand a cheaper plastic Valk does open up a lot of conversion possibilities that you wouldn't consider witha resin FW one:

hack up and build a bigger transport
hack up and build something smaller (Vulture)
hack up and build something else
loot for Orks
etc
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☺The Antipope
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lavadude360
9 Feb 2009, 04:27 PM
highmarshaldave
9 Feb 2009, 02:25 PM
Hmmm, I'm still a little peeved at this one, to be honest (could you tell from my previous comment. . .). Much the same as I was when the plastic Baneblade and ShadowHammerBaneFaceBladeLol kit were relased/anounced. Why. Cos the prestiege factor is gone. Back in the day, it used to be an honour to face someone with the resources to get even a single Valkyrie or Vulture or whatever (and the patience to put together the sometimes god-awful miscasts). But now? Any 12 year old kid can pick up a Valk, butcher the kit and paint it badly. And if it is a perfect replica of the resin version, then all those lucky gits who went and bought and slaved over it to put it together correctly will just slip into the background.

Frankly, its just a silly idea.

Dave out.
QFT and I'm not just saying that because I'm a Fw snob Chris!! It would royally suck to be one of those guys!

LD
You are both being snobs in my opinion. For 'prestige' read 'I can afford one of these and you can't'. I've dreamed of doing an Elysian army for years but the prohibitive cost of the flyers has always made this an impossibilty. Now it's possible for me to run an army like that and if that means losing 'prestige' then so be it. Theres still plenty of kits out there that FW produce so that you can impress the chicks or whatever.

It isn't a silly idea to make things easily affordable. In fact I think you'll find that the majority of consumers would regard cheaper, more readily available goods as being a very good idea.

Also, not having to wash off mould release and drill a million pins to hold it togther sounds like good stuff to me. Bring on the plastic revolution.
Edited by The Antipope, 9 Feb 2009, 06:15 PM.
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# KayvaanShrike
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Marine Biologist
The other thing is that previously these "special" models were made my FW as they were not in the Codices/Army books and also the technology was no in place to cast such detail in plastic. I think the reason that these models are now being done in plastic is that the technology is now there to make them worthwhile. So in that respect I agree with it, I do however agree with what you say about these models that now when bought from FW in resin will not have the same "wow" factor that they did before. However there is still at least 2 entire armies that are FW exclusive in the DKoK and Elysians.

Tbh, I have not felt the need to get a Baneblade just because I now could, and I don't think I will feel the need to get one of these just because I can. And I for one, would still think that someone who does have the resin version is cool! lol
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# Marovian
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I couldn't agree less with those who say a plastic kit takes away from the wow factor. There will still be plenty of resin goodness for people to spend their money on, but it doesn't hurt if every so often GW take a good FW kit and do it in plastic. I think everyone is entitled to have the cool stuff in their army, not just those with a bit of spare cash.
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☺The Antipope
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Also, a FW kit on it's own does not equal 'wow'. You have to back that up with the skills to paint it.

A few years back at Newcastle Metro Centre GW ran a tank painting competition. I dutifully went to town on a lowly Chimera and did a pretty decent job of it. Competition day arrives and this ugly is letting everyone gawk over his Shadowsword, which would be all well and good if it didn't look like he had painted it by clenching a brush between his arse cheeks and then gyrating madly round the tank. Anyway, he laughed at my entry and said he bet I wished I'd painted a Super Heavy.

The smile got knocked off his spotty will never attract a mate face though, cause even with a lowly Chimera, I still won the competition.

I have seen plastic one piece starter set models have more 'wow' factor than FW kits because the person in question has put time and effort into a good paintjob. If I see someone plonk down an awful looking titan in a game, I'm not impressed, I'm appalled.
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Shadowphrakt
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Dave38x
9 Feb 2009, 06:05 PM
I have to agree with you HMD, it does kinda take the exclusivity out of it. While im all for cheap kits, You knew you were up against someone who wasnt an idiot when they had put the time, effort and money into making a fw flyer or superheavy, now everyone and their mums can use valks. AND WHY THE HELL IS IT A SKIMMER!!!

seriously, its a flyer. But that would be too complex to explain in a codex though wouldnt it?
Course it would. GW codexes have been reduced in complexity for ickle kiddies, and while they DO spend an awful lot of money, they need to take care of us with more than 4 brain cells.
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fiendil
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The Antipope
9 Feb 2009, 06:13 PM
Also, not having to wash off mould release and drill a million pins to hold it togther sounds like good stuff to me. Bring on the plastic revolution.
Hell. Yes.

And I would suggest to those the resin snobs that even if your favorite model is now being cast in plastic rather than resin, you can still obtain exclusivity by scratch building something unique instead. Nothing to stop you putting something on the table that no one else has got.

I'm quite happy to see the Valk become a skimmer (with Deep Strike, of course, to represent when it's actually flying...). I really don't like the IA flier rules, and the "hover" rules in particular, and think that true fliers are better suited to games of Epic and Aeronautica (and BFG), rather than in such small skirmishes as 40k covers. With the VTOL jets, it makes complete sense to allow the thing to act as a skimmer while it's not flying.
Edited by fiendil, 9 Feb 2009, 07:02 PM.
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☺highmarshaldave
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Where to begin. . .

Antipope: Apologies to you mate. I was merely trying to be objective. While I don't fully believe in what I said I was trying to pitch in the other ide of the argument for those who do own multiple resin Valks. I, for one, only owna single FW flier: a thunderbolt. I was as happy as a kid on crack when I got the thing and I know I'd probably send GW an angry email if they even thought of making a plastic one. I know that the "exclusivity" is a very snobbish and olde schoole way to think, but people do think like that and, as I stated, I was merely trying to mediate and pitch in an opposing argument. I'm also fookig skint and will doubtless pick up a fair few of them. . . Go on. Say it.

HYPOCRITE!

However, from a business stand point, it is probably totally moot. 4 plastic valks for the price of 1 FW valk, but the single FW valk represents a bigger profit in the short term, with the plastic one being far more profitable in the longer term. In all, I'm sure GW know what they're playing at but it is gonna cause a lot more arguments across the land.

Gav: Another fair point, the tech is available to do it (and has been for a wee while) but the main reason for the plastic valk is because some fool decided that the Imeprial Guard list needed a fast/skiming unit. Apparently the fast Salamnder wasn't Guardy enough to be added in officialy, so they decided to butcher their own fluff and include (as a skimmer, apparently) the valkyrie, which isn't technically part of the Guard organisation. I mean, really. . . What the fook?

Anyway, as to the skiming nature of the Valkyrie, I've still been unable to figure that out. Logically, if a valkyrie were to be skiming 15 feet off the deck in VTOL mode, it'd have to be moving rather slow. Why? Well, in my understanding a hovering valkyrie would use small amounts of directed thrust to move it around, producing a slowish drift in one direction rather than a zip around the field. To achieve zip factor, one would use the main engines but then physics and such kick in and you take off at severl hundred mph. So, in actually, a skiming valkyrie would move 6" per turn. Quite why they couldn't just copy/paste the flyer rules from apocalypse is totally beyond me. Never mind the fact that Imperial Armour 2 update includes the new Chimera statline (taken as gospel) and a new Valkyrie statline; a statline which says its a flyer. Supspect?

And anyway, the Imperial Guard have survived three codices without a skimmer, mainly because its not our way. If we need scouting we have senitels, salamanders or men with funky capes. If we need mobility we have VTOL transports, APCs and men with a different kind of funky cape.

Excuse my rant people, I know this is not my personal soap box but my apologies had to be said an then I thought "well, actually. . . "

So what do you think about that?

Dave out.

Edited by Gav as large text was giving scroll bar of doom!
Edited by KayvaanShrike, 9 Feb 2009, 08:20 PM.
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Brambleten
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The Red Hood
The Antipope
9 Feb 2009, 06:13 PM
Theres still plenty of kits out there that FW produce so that you can impress the chicks
I never ever thought i would see that sentence in that order :D

Antipope
 
Also, not having to wash off mould release and drill a million pins to hold it togther sounds like good stuff to me. Bring on the plastic revolution.

tis a very good idea
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# Digits
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Why not a skimmer? The Wave serpent travels at over 500kph at altitude and skims at 180 kph in skim mode, why not the Valk?
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☺highmarshaldave
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Cos the wave serpent has an antigrav plate to allow it to ignore both gravity and friction. The Valk is basically a harrier with a hollow fuselage. . .

Dave out.
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# Digits
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Shadowkin
All it needs is a good pilot.........
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☺Jasevx
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One reason and one only its a skimmer, the rules already exist. When I saw this model last Sept, they were discussing the arguments over flyer and skimmer rules, flyer rules would have OTT'd the rulebook and confused the hell out the average punter
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☺Grizz
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Gribbly Monster
Well, to slightly get back to the actual model, does anyone know if there will be a base for it? I'm not talking about a simple flying base, but something a bit more impressive. Much like when they made an oval base for the Mumakil for example.
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☺Jasevx
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Can't remember seeing it on the sprue, tho that sprue was scrapped due to problems, we might have to wait for WD to tell us.
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☺highmarshaldave
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An included base could be tasty, if it were a flyer :P That 12 rod of clear acrylic woulda gone down a storm!

Dave out.
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Arhalien
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ARGARHGARHjRHGA!HG!HG!!H!!

SCROLLING BAR OF DOOM!

*dies*
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Daemon-Forge
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now i can have 90% of my Elysian army in Valkyrie's, hmm all that airsupport!
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# KayvaanShrike
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Marine Biologist
Have fixed Daves large......... scroll bar of doom!

Size isn't important Dave, its how you use it!
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Arhalien
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KayvaanShrike
9 Feb 2009, 08:22 PM
Have fixed Daves large......... scroll bar of doom!

Size isn't important Dave, its how you use it!
Thanks Gav :)

But, looking at your avatar, I'm tempted to call you a hypocrite here..... :P
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