| We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Feel no Pain, and Pinning.... | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: 14 Oct 2008, 07:45 PM (591 Views) | |
| Chapel | 14 Oct 2008, 07:45 PM Post #1 |
|
So these questions have come up in our local gaming group, and I'd like to get clarification.... Pinning/Feel No Pain and application: If a plague marine for example gets shot by plasma, does it ignore FNP? Technically FNP states if you aren't allowed an Armor Save, then you don't get FNP. But i've seen people argue that since plasma is AP3 you still get FNP. If a unit with FNP takes hits from a pinning weapon, they fail thier armor save, but survive with thier FNP roll, do they still take a pinning check? Technically they failed thier armor save and took a wound. If a unit is shot by a unit of 5 sniper weapons, and 3 cause wounds that are failed....does the unit take 3 pinning saves? It states in the Rulebook that multiple pinning checks might be needed, but up until now I assumed it meant from different units firing pinning weapons (IE: two units of snipers firing on the same squad), but some have argued that each failed save results in a pinning check. Looking for clarification on these issues. |
![]() |
|
| Brambleten | 14 Oct 2008, 08:07 PM Post #2 |
![]()
The Red Hood
|
as usual, i may be completely off, but heres what i think anyway. 1) if a plasma is AP3, and you have a 3+ save, then thats no save, therefore no FNP 2) if a model fails an armour save, but still has FNP, unless the FNP save is failed, no wound is taken, therefore no pinning test. 3)i think that if 3 wounds were taken from the same squad, its just one test, but if its 3 weapons from different squads, then its 3 tests. hope that helps, anyway |
![]() |
|
| Chapel | 15 Oct 2008, 03:35 AM Post #3 |
|
Actually I agree with your opinion, however, the rules as written produce a little bit of ambiguity on the matter. And so differening opinions in our gameing group seem to be divided. |
![]() |
|
| ☺Tepok | 15 Oct 2008, 03:12 PM Post #4 |
|
Untermensch
|
Not entierly right.. Plasma weapons are AP2 - they ignore FNP , however, AP3 weapons do not ignore it. As far as AP is concerned, only AP1 and AP2 weapons ignore FNP. To clarify the pinning by multiple weapons: If 5 sniper rifles from one sniper unit cause casualties to a Guardian squad, the Guardians take one pinning test. If two sniper units fire at a Guardian squad, and each unit causes more than one casualty, then the Guardians take 2 pinning tests, it's done by squads, not weapons. And if FNP saves someone, it means that no pinning test is necessary. Tepok |
![]() |
|
| Chapel | 15 Oct 2008, 07:58 PM Post #5 |
|
So Tepok, lets just take some good old space marines as an example. We'll use Plague marines. They have an armor value of 3. If an AP3 weapon fires on them and wounds them, they don't recieve an armor save, because the AP3 weapon is enough to punch through thier armor. By definition of the rules for FNP, a model that cannot take an armor save, doesn't get FNP. It's being somewhat contradictory to say that because the weapon isn't AP1 or AP2 that they get thier FNP roll. I'm not sure what AP3 weapons there are, but there's gotta be one somewhere. It works the same for AP4 or AP5 against say, orks with FNP. If you don't get an armor save, you can't take FNP. |
![]() |
|
| ☺Dave38x | 15 Oct 2008, 08:12 PM Post #6 |
![]()
DubDubDubDubDub
|
Ion cannon for tau is str6 ap3. I would agree with you chapel, an ap3 weapon prevents a marine from geting his save, therefore no FNP surely? |
![]() |
|
| Brambleten | 15 Oct 2008, 08:21 PM Post #7 |
![]()
The Red Hood
|
Dave Ion cannons are str 7. but yeah, they are AP3, as are the new redeemer flamers IIRC |
![]() |
|
| ☺Tepok | 15 Oct 2008, 10:43 PM Post #8 |
|
Untermensch
|
It doesn't say that weapons which ignore armour saves ignore FNP. The only weapons that ignore FNP are: Instant death Ap1 Ap2 Close combat weapons that ignore armour saves (i.e. power weapons, rending etc. etc.) Perils of the warp The line "any other wound against which no armour save can ever be taken" - should be ignored, but, if you're going to be pedantic.... : AP3 weapons do not fall into that category, because 2+ armour saves can be taken against them, therefore "no armour save can ever be taken" does not apply to them, as 2+ saves can be taken. Tepok |
![]() |
|
| Chapel | 16 Oct 2008, 04:55 AM Post #9 |
|
Ignoring a line spicifically stated in the rules is an intresting way of looking at things |
![]() |
|
| zealot | 16 Oct 2008, 07:01 AM Post #10 |
|
Warrant Officer First Class
|
lol |
![]() |
|
| ☺Tepok | 16 Oct 2008, 10:20 AM Post #11 |
|
Untermensch
|
But the other lines specify what is meant by such weapons... AP3 does not ignore it. Tepok |
![]() |
|
| Mawa | 16 Oct 2008, 10:49 AM Post #12 |
|
Lieutenant
|
You've gotta love the rules like this, GW are masters at writing things which can be taken in multiple ways. I personally agree with Tepok on this though. |
![]() |
|
| ☺Dave38x | 16 Oct 2008, 07:23 PM Post #13 |
![]()
DubDubDubDubDub
|
i agree with you tepok. That makes sense now lol.. And bramble: It kills eldar and guard on a 2+. thats all i care really.... esp as i never use them
|
![]() |
|
| Chapel | 16 Oct 2008, 07:40 PM Post #14 |
|
If you have a model with an armor save of 3+, then technically the line "any other wound against which no armour save can ever be taken" directly applies to your armor save. Simply ignoring it becuase it doesn't list out every weapon, thier AP's, Str's, and such doesn't seem like the way to go. It is correct to say that it doesn't spicifically list AP3 weapons in determining FNP. However, since in this situation an AP3 weapon would never allow you an armor save, I believe it would apply. I'll have to ask the Rouge Trader guy when I see him soon. Regardless of my opinion, it's his that'll count. =) |
![]() |
|
| WiganUltra | 17 Oct 2008, 07:42 AM Post #15 |
|
Warrant Officer First Class
|
Tepok is correct. When shooting a model with FNP, it is ignored by AP1, AP2 and weapons double the users toughness. It has nothing to do with whether the model gets it's save or not. FNP is also ignored by close combat weapons that allow no save. As for pinning, there's no way I'd ever consider playing it anything other than if you actually take a wound off the model after FNP, it takes a pinning test. You don't remove the model from play, roll FNP, then put the model back, so it hasn't taken a wound. You could argue that the model took a wound on the to-wound roll, and failed their save, thus making it unsaved, but I'd just ignore you ![]() EDIT: What FNP models are you trying to pin BTW? Because Plague Marines are Fearless... Edited by WiganUltra, 17 Oct 2008, 07:44 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Brambleten | 17 Oct 2008, 06:12 PM Post #16 |
![]()
The Red Hood
|
tau battlesuit commanders can be given FNP. dont know any others, except perhaps possessed with their weird table |
![]() |
|
| Death Korp | 19 Oct 2008, 07:14 PM Post #17 |
|
Lieutenant
|
A Nob (Orks that is :D) squad can be given FNP if a Doc is in the squad i believe... DK |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
![]() Our users say it best: "Zetaboards is the best forum service I have ever used." |
|
| « Previous Topic · Warhammer 40,000 · Next Topic » |









8:36 AM Jul 11