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Another SM Codex?
Topic Started: 7 Jun 2008, 03:44 PM (773 Views)
☺Dave38x
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DubDubDubDubDub
Wow, i mean just wow. SM havent been updated for like, 12 years!!!! Not like those dark eldar for example, theyve been getting a new codex every 3 years.

Is this really necessary of GW? Whats wrong with the current codex?
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Daemon-Forge
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Major
yep i agree, why a new one? its only been 2yrs? from the last book.

but with a new codex comes new models which means More ££££ and as SM are there bread and butter then thats what they will update more.
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Merceus
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its not really a question though, like DF said, theyre GWs B&B, so they get updated first to match the new edition of 40k... its not cos GW think they need a revamp, its cos none of the codices match the new rules (apart from daemons), and it only makes sense (from a gw view) that marines should be updated first...
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# KayvaanShrike
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Marine Biologist
Quit moaning Dave, Dark Eldar will get done eventually, I feel sure.

And as has been stated Space Marines are GWs signature army, and I guess they are redoing them to coincide with the release of 5th ed.
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Sotek
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have to agree with you dave, i think the current codex is just fine (what with the awesome traits and stuff) but as has been said the space marines are a iconic image for GW and its what brings in the money.
Edited by Sotek, 7 Jun 2008, 04:11 PM.
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Brush Your Teeth
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Space Marines are the poster boys, and need to be kept 100% up to date with 5th ed.. simple as that really.

Although I'd guess Dark Eldar are in a bit of a vicous circle at the moment, sales are likely not high enough to validate a new codex for them, however, sales are probably low as the current model range is pretty shoddy, and the codex is out of date.

last thing i heard, GW will be releasing like this:
Marines
something else
Marines
something else (etc.)
so the chances are, Dark Eldar are nedxt in line for their (much needed) update.

If your going to play an army other than marines, your going to have to lean that GW dont love you quite as much - this is part of the reason im getting into Privateer Press games alot more, they have alot more regard for their current customers. GW are just focused on roping in new gamers so they can try and maintain the profits that they've become used to from Lord of the Rings (which they've now exhausted as they've covered the 3 books).
Edited by Brush Your Teeth, 7 Jun 2008, 04:18 PM.
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Tinners
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Doesn't it look like a face!
Dark Eldar are getting a codex, probably be 2009 before it shows its ugly mug tho. Guess what? So are Guard and Necrons...

As has been said, Space Marines are the Poster Boys, they have been there since the start, the game was founded around them pretty much, so yes they will get new stuff, yes they'll get more codex, yes they'll get more plastic kits.
They are the easiest army for beginners, so they will always get the shiney stuff to lure new customers, so it makes sence that they'd be kept up to date with the rules more so than a very specialised and rare army.

Would I prefer it if it wasn't so? Sure, but then it'd be the same story with a different Race as the center, then all you'd hear on other forums is stuff like:

"OMG GW sux they only update eldar! What about Space Marines!!1!!"
"More Eldar guardians? GW are stupid! I'm never giving them money again! I'm going to crush my models with a car!"*

It really does seem that GW can do nothing without pissing someone off these days.

Privateer Press will change to the same as this in a few years just as GW done, in the end it all comes down to the fact they are companies that need to meet standards and targets and what not.

GW want to make money? My god! You mean they are an actual Company ? Heresey!


*Based on a true story. Only names, dates and events have been changed.
Edited by Tinners, 7 Jun 2008, 04:42 PM.
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Schoolcormorant
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Well said Tinners, and with such a brilliant Irish brogue. If it weren't for your nation's history of terrorism I'd give you power of attourney. Lol.

The new Marine models are quite nice though...

SC
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☺Tepok
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Untermensch
The current codex is crap.

You can find more cheese in it than in a cheese factory, it needs fixing.


Tepok
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Merceus
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Tepok
7 Jun 2008, 06:29 PM
The current codex is crap.

You can find more cheese in it than in a cheese factory, it needs fixing.


Tepok
yes :blink: so if thats the way you (and others) feel, would it not be better to update it? which they are doing :P

*wonders if they'll be keeping the traits or going down the same path as the guard rumours... or just not bothering* :ermm:
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☺Tepok
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Untermensch
That's what I meant, kill the current one...


Tepok
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Brush Your Teeth
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Tinners
7 Jun 2008, 04:32 PM
Would I prefer it if it wasn't so? Sure, but then it'd be the same story with a different Race as the center, then all you'd hear on other forums is stuff like:

"OMG GW sux they only update eldar! What about Space Marines!!1!!"
"More Eldar guardians? GW are stupid! I'm never giving them money again! I'm going to crush my models with a car!"*


Privateer Press will change to the same as this in a few years just as GW done, in the end it all comes down to the fact they are companies that need to meet standards and targets and what not.




Sorry, to disagree (and go off topic), but Privateer Press [sorry to sound like a fanboy] is a living example that no single race has to dominate the field, they have 8 primary races all on an equal footing, and hopefully that will continue.

Where GW went wrong with the space marines is that the fluff they created to support 40k was primarily focused upon marines (horus heresy).

Maybe its not their fault, or maybe they wanted it that way. I dont know, all I'm saying is they never had to have a single dominant race. But they did, so we have to live with it.

As to meeting standards and targets, the problem there is making an agreement with New Line Pictures GW have riden their wave of success from that, and gotten used to it. However, its a finite source of funds due to the films limitations, and since 2004 (afaik) they've been loosing sales, hence their new approach to marketing. Im sure without Lord of the Rings GW would have happily continued as it was with a focus upon 40k and Fantasy, aswell as encouraging specialist games (this goes back to PP, aslong as they dont make any drastic changes, i think they'll remain as they are). But they decided that it would be too risky not to do Lord of the Rings, as if they didnt, someone else would, and now they've had to change to accomodate the reprocussions of that decision (namely, increased standards and targets).

For those of you who dont like reading, to sum all that up. I blame Lord of the Rings :D

Apologies if that sounded like a rant/argument.. i've had a long day, and dont mean to start anything (feel free to agree to disagree :) )

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Keravin
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Tinners
7 Jun 2008, 04:32 PM

Privateer Press will change to the same as this in a few years just as GW done, in the end it all comes down to the fact they are companies that need to meet standards and targets and what not.
Bollocks.

Privateer Press revised their Prime rules and managed to not invalidate any single miniature in their range.


GW has never managed to properly balance the various codexes against each other, because they don't do errata, they have piecemeal constructed these codexes and they are always playing catch up to the last codex they issued.

PP put out all their armies at the same time and all the rules for those armies get updated at the same time for each game.

I have no problem with a new Space Marine Codex. I just wish that GW would figure how to stop invalidating people's armies. Bye bye Infilitrating infantry Blood Ravens. I also wish they'd stop shoving Ultramarines down our throats.
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Brush Your Teeth
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Keravin
7 Jun 2008, 07:52 PM
Tinners
7 Jun 2008, 04:32 PM

Privateer Press will change to the same as this in a few years just as GW done, in the end it all comes down to the fact they are companies that need to meet standards and targets and what not.
Bollocks.

Privateer Press revised their Prime rules and managed to not invalidate any single miniature in their range.


GW has never managed to properly balance the various codexes against each other, because they don't do errata, they have piecemeal constructed these codexes and they are always playing catch up to the last codex they issued.

PP put out all their armies at the same time and all the rules for those armies get updated at the same time for each game.

I have no problem with a new Space Marine Codex. I just wish that GW would figure how to stop invalidating people's armies. Bye bye Infilitrating infantry Blood Ravens. I also wish they'd stop shoving Ultramarines down our throats.
Word ;) :D
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Right, time to sort this out.

First off, Dave you post this in the wrong section - 40k general please. Your not the only one whose done it recently.

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Although I'd guess Dark Eldar are in a bit of a vicous circle at the moment, sales are likely not high enough to validate a new codex for them, however, sales are probably low as the current model range is pretty shoddy, and the codex is out of date

But they were at the standard of the other models released at the time - the problem is no one took to them. Since then, they havent had any love and have generally gone down hill. You want that to change? Make a kick [arse] dark eldar army, send pictures into GW, post it here to encourage people to start dark eldar - I wouldnt mind doing a reaver jet bike themed army, but Ive yet to see a dark eldar army that looks really good. Ive seen two and thats it...

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GW are just focused on roping in new gamers so they can try and maintain the profits that they've become used to from Lord of the Rings

LOTR hasn't been the cash cow it was when the movies were released - seeing as though the last film was released 5 years ago (give or take six months), the fact that the range is still expanding shows that whilst its not generating massive revenues, it is generating a steady one. GW aren't stupid enough to release plastic set after plastic set (which cost a hell of a lot more then the metal sprues) on something that isnt going to last at least another five years.
Besides which, this is off topic.

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last thing i heard, GW will be releasing like this:
Marines
something else
Marines
something else (etc.)
so the chances are, Dark Eldar are nedxt in line for their (much needed) update.

Thats not set in stone, but its likely the DE are the second 'something else'. First half of 2009 I've been told, it depends how 5th ed release goes - theres been delays in the starter box which could effect other releases, as its already having an effect on Apoc reload.

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Sorry, to disagree (and go off topic), but Privateer Press [sorry to sound like a fanboy] is a living example that no single race has to dominate the field, they have 8 primary races all on an equal footing, and hopefully that will continue.

GW have 11 main races, and god knows how many subsections and variant armies - why? To satisfy its customers. Everyone wanted chapter specific codex for there chapter so GW gave them it. Everyone wants customisable guard, GW gives you that. And everyone wants a flexible army, which has led to some of the holes in current armies such as slaaneshi lash armies in the daemon codex, massed bikers in the Ork codex, massed assault cannons in the marine codex, Nidzilla, and BA veterans being as cheap as there normal counterparts.... GW have made list that DO let you have a cool army, but also abuse them to buggary.
I say, its a game. If your not happy with these occurances in the list (and I'm sure theres similar things in the Warmachine list, just no ones found them yet...

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Where GW went wrong with the space marines is that the fluff they created to support 40k was primarily focused upon marines (horus heresy).

Oh clearly, thats why the Horus Heresy material is some of there best selling - even ex-gamers are buying them. No, the fluff is extremely popular, and its more about the Imperium then the marines as the novels have been addressing.

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For those of you who dont like reading, to sum all that up. I blame Lord of the Rings

And wrongly. I used to, until I realised that actually, its got nothing to do with LOTR really - its been an issue because GW expanded too quickly too soon, using the LOTR cash. If you know anything about GW history they'd been expanding steadily right up to LOTR - as soon as it was release they had a ton of cash so they decided to move there expansion plans forward. When that money stopped, so did the expansion and GW projected for money that wasnt coming in. It was a risk that didnt pay off.
It has nothing to do with LOTR in the store, and more to do with GW getting giddy - I would have done the same.

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Privateer Press revised their Prime rules and managed to not invalidate any single miniature in their range

Do you know how many models are in the GW range... Privateer havent got a fart on GW in that regard. Even so GW rarely invalidate models, and even when they do there still useable. Old SM characters become captains for example. The only models that dont get used as much are older models - especially true with Nids but lets face it, if they didnt make the models better, people would complain...

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PP put out all their armies at the same time and all the rules for those armies get updated at the same time for each game.

Great - good for them. Small company so its totally viable. Thats what happened with Hordes right? The full armies werent released, just the starters. GW could do that no problem - instead they choose to release there armies in blocks so they all have the same style, same quality... both systems have there merits, niethers better then the other.

And finally...

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GW has never managed to properly balance the various codexes against each other, because they don't do errata, they have piecemeal constructed these codexes and they are always playing catch up to the last codex they issued.


The problem is, balance isnt possible when your trying to make armies to suit the vast sprawling range that is GW. Privateer is balanced... but so is LOTR to a large extent. Smaller range.
At the moment Keravin, you can play a Raven Guard army that looks like the fluff and plays like the fluff to a large extent. The new codex is going to redress this so marines play how they played in 2nd edition - five or ten man squads, no five man squads with plasma guns and heavy weapons, no razorbacks for all.
Then the chapter specifics will come that'll allow the craziness - Space Wolves being first which indicates that a lot of the flexibility of the current marine codex is gone.


Right, now I've ranted, Im done. But before I go Ill raise this point.

Tepok, our regular Orky bloke on skype, is a member of the Waaagh! (Ork specific forum). Hes noticed a massive increase in members when the Ork codex was released.- would the same be true of Marines? No.

The SM codex comes with four new plastic kits (LR crusader/redeemer, scout bikes, drop pod, and land speeder with variants) of which only the drop pod is likely to generate much money as the land speeder has been around since the beginning and the bikers have been around for years (so anyone who wanted lots has had the time to buy them already). The LR might generate some purchases, but not that many (who needs more then one..). Theres already been two sets of veterans within the past year or so, so only the assault veterans are like to sell well... basically, marines arent getting the kind of release that Orks and Eldar got, because theres no need to. If theres no need to, then you should be able to see that theres not that much money in them beyond the codex and one or two replacement kits, and even then people arent going to buy tons of em.

Moved to 40k general. Make sure it stays on tpoic.
 
Keravin
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Go post in someone's topic that you normally wouldn't
Quote:
 

Quote:
 
Sorry, to disagree (and go off topic), but Privateer Press [sorry to sound like a fanboy] is a living example that no single race has to dominate the field, they have 8 primary races all on an equal footing, and hopefully that will continue.

GW have 11 main races, and god knows how many subsections and variant armies - why? To satisfy its customers. Everyone wanted chapter specific codex for there chapter so GW gave them it. Everyone wants customisable guard, GW gives you that. And everyone wants a flexible army, which has led to some of the holes in current armies such as slaaneshi lash armies in the daemon codex, massed bikers in the Ork codex, massed assault cannons in the marine codex, Nidzilla, and BA veterans being as cheap as there normal counterparts.... GW have made list that DO let you have a cool army, but also abuse them to buggary.
I say, its a game. If your not happy with these occurances in the list (and I'm sure theres similar things in the Warmachine list, just no ones found them yet...


The difference is that GW gets surprised by how the tourney players misuse their lists. Now they finally seem to be dealing with it, by fixing the fluff (Codex construction, Tac squads being 5 and 10 men blocks rather than moveable numbers) into the lists.


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Privateer Press revised their Prime rules and managed to not invalidate any single miniature in their range

Do you know how many models are in the GW range... Privateer havent got a fart on GW in that regard. Even so GW rarely invalidate models, and even when they do there still useable. Old SM characters become captains for example. The only models that dont get used as much are older models - especially true with Nids but lets face it, if they didnt make the models better, people would complain...


No I've only been using Citadel figures from before Warhammer even existed so please tell me how many miniatures there are. :huh:

There have been many instances of GW making Codexes that invalidate figures they were perfectly happy for people to use prior. How many marine players are suddenly going to be left with mass Terminator heavy weapons they can't use shortly? If they'd set up the Codexes in the first place correctly then this would not be an issue. How many Chaos players feel they cannot play their armies at the moment? I saw a diorama of a Sanguinne Priest for Blood Angels with the title RIP 1991-2007.

Where are the rules for Dogs of War, Chaos Dwarves and god forbid Squats? Dwarf flamethrowers?

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PP put out all their armies at the same time and all the rules for those armies get updated at the same time for each game.

Great - good for them. Small company so its totally viable. Thats what happened with Hordes right? The full armies werent released, just the starters. GW could do that no problem - instead they choose to release there armies in blocks so they all have the same style, same quality... both systems have there merits, niethers better then the other.


The full armies were released. The rules all came at the same time and then over the course of the year the figures to represent the troops were put out.

It means that one set of players does not feel at a disadvantage to the others.

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GW has never managed to properly balance the various codexes against each other, because they don't do errata, they have piecemeal constructed these codexes and they are always playing catch up to the last codex they issued.


The problem is, balance isnt possible when your trying to make armies to suit the vast sprawling range that is GW. Privateer is balanced... but so is LOTR to a large extent. Smaller range.
At the moment Keravin, you can play a Raven Guard army that looks like the fluff and plays like the fluff to a large extent. The new codex is going to redress this so marines play how they played in 2nd edition - five or ten man squads, no five man squads with plasma guns and heavy weapons, no razorbacks for all.


Should have been done right in the first place. There never used to be marine hate and I do not agree that balance is not possible.

The reason 40k is not properly balanced is 1) the tourney issue where the playtesting does not look to see how beardies might misuse the lists, 2) that 40k does not operate a properly balanced points system and will never be able to unless they reset everything, but they won't because we still have codexes being released that have to wait 5+ years to get updated, and 3) GW cuts costs in the wrong places.

GW remain interested in keeping the edition roll going rather than actually getting a proper set of rules in place and then going from there. It suits their business practices. They screwed up the best chance they had to sort out 40k with 3rd edition and the army lists to hold over all races until their codexes came out.

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Then the chapter specifics will come that'll allow the craziness - Space Wolves being first which indicates that a lot of the flexibility of the current marine codex is gone.


Or rather that Space Wolves is almost 2 editions out of date.

I won't hold my breath for my Blood Ravens codex to come out. I just have to hope that the 13th Company are properly playable with the Space Wolves one.


The scout bikes are a different kit to the current ones and if GW were smart they will be useable easily for IG players to convert.



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The difference is that GW gets surprised by how the tourney players misuse their lists

Thats incorrect i feel - theres method in there madness.

If I wanted to do an under strength chapter, I could do without having to resort to complex rules. I can use the five man squad kitted out, more scouts and more termies. The lists are designed so that anyone can build the chapter they want. I'm chuffed that now, as its been from the start I'll add, I can build a chapter that suits my needs as a player. I can make massed infantry, a standard chapter organisation, or an all termie army.

The problem isnt the lists, its people sadly. If you find someone whose exploiting the lists, dont play them - I never used to.

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There have been many instances of GW making Codexes that invalidate figures they were perfectly happy for people to use prior


Aye and its a shame to see such things as electro-priests, harliquin land raiders, and blood axe commandos going. Do you not think this is part of this idea of a 're-set'. The Imperial list was sprawling and whilst it added a lot to the back ground and still gives me ideas, I'm glad to see its gone. Many Players would agree, whilst many painters wont care - If I want a unit of Ad Mech, Ill find a choice in one of the imperial lists so I can use them. Im currently planning to use my 20 odd servitors as a heavy weapons platoon until I get more tech priests/marines when it'll become a full platoon with carapace armour.
There's no such thing as invalidated figures - you can find a way of using every model within the lists as long as its not ridiculous (I refer to harliquin land raiders once again).

I'm not being a GW fan boy here, I'm trying to point out that you want a re-set which GW simply dont have the resources to do that for every unit and every codex without leaving 40k releases for around two to three years. In there current state, GW wouldnt survive that long without 40k releases,

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Where are the rules for Dogs of War, Chaos Dwarves and god forbid Squats? Dwarf flamethrowers?

1) In development as they weren't selling (because DOW dont - there additions to most peoples armies)
2) In development for a release within the next two years.
3) Gone and thank god - the epic list and 40k list had gone in completely different directions.

Having said that though, have you seen how much 2 and 3 actually sell for? That shows people are still using them and are happy to pay over the odds for them. In the DOW stuff sells for a fair amount so people ARE still using them and ARE adapting the lists.

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The full armies were released. The rules all came at the same time and then over the course of the year the figures to represent the troops were put out.

Right that doesnt make sense, and having bought one of the original boxes at release I know its not true.
The original range was the four race specific boxes (totalling around 12 models) with Nyss the mage hunter shortly after. Since then I've seen unit after unit be released and whilst each month is roughly themed, they have got a nice and even release schedule.
GW doesnt do it, but has now moved to even releases around specific releases (COD, Apoc). This is good.

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The reason 40k is not properly balanced is 1) the tourney issue where the playtesting does not look to see how beardies might misuse the lists, 2) that 40k does not operate a properly balanced points system and will never be able to unless they reset everything, but they won't because we still have codexes being released that have to wait 5+ years to get updated, and 3) GW cuts costs in the wrong places

I disagree on all points.
I'd go into details but its a matter of opinion and experience.



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The scout bikes are a different kit to the current ones and if GW were smart they will be useable easily for IG players to convert

Not by much.
The bikes are essentially cut down versions of the current ones with new style guns and thats about it. Any good modeller could probably make them without too much of a headache.
They already have attilan rough riders...

You've hit the key issue right on the head. If they do release bikes, they'l have to take attilans away from the stores which doesnt make sense as rough riders are a auxillary unit like Ogryns and Ratlings. There suppose to be different from the main army! If they remove attilans they outdate the models, and because bikes are better then horses and could mount guns like there marine counter parts, the whole entery of rough rider changes completely...

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Or rather that Space Wolves is almost 2 editions out of date.

I bought the codex on release and I still have it. I'm still happy to play with it and I think its one of the best list GW have ever done. I dont want them to do the new list, but then again they might do new space wolf models so... who am I to complain.

GW are trying to make the best of a bad situation, and whilst Privateer might be doing things differently I personally dont think there doing it any better - which is sad really as I always liked Mike McVey's stuff.
 
Keravin
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Quote:
 
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The difference is that GW gets surprised by how the tourney players misuse their lists

Thats incorrect i feel - theres method in there madness.

If I wanted to do an under strength chapter, I could do without having to resort to complex rules. I can use the five man squad kitted out, more scouts and more termies. The lists are designed so that anyone can build the chapter they want. I'm chuffed that now, as its been from the start I'll add, I can build a chapter that suits my needs as a player. I can make massed infantry, a standard chapter organisation, or an all termie army.

The problem isnt the lists, its people sadly. If you find someone whose exploiting the lists, dont play them - I never used to.


Given up until Apocalypse GW advocated tourneys as their main focus for the game then they should have spent more time dealing with how lists could be misused. Rather than realise 3 years later and then rejig yet again.

It hasn't been that way from the start. 1st and 2nd editions were both far more about the fun and about the fluff.

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There's no such thing as invalidated figures - you can find a way of using every model within the lists as long as its not ridiculous (I refer to harliquin land raiders once again).


Or as long as you buy some new figures to rejig them.

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I'm not being a GW fan boy here, I'm trying to point out that you want a re-set which GW simply dont have the resources to do that for every unit and every codex without leaving 40k releases for around two to three years. In there current state, GW wouldnt survive that long without 40k releases


No I agree. Might have been an idea to have done errata properly before now then.

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The full armies were released. The rules all came at the same time and then over the course of the year the figures to represent the troops were put out.

Right that doesnt make sense, and having bought one of the original boxes at release I know its not true.
The original range was the four race specific boxes (totalling around 12 models) with Nyss the mage hunter shortly after. Since then I've seen unit after unit be released and whilst each month is roughly themed, they have got a nice and even release schedule.
GW doesnt do it, but has now moved to even releases around specific releases (COD, Apoc). This is good.


You're talking about the situation WHEN THEY STARTED.

When Hordes came out as the new game the new boxes came out with an extra warlock for each race and the FULL RULES came out at the same time.

This means that everyone is at the same point and all the later stuff for that book can be proxied until they are released for sale.

It also removes gluts and giant tiredness that GW does. You know I miss having the Giant shoved down my throat each month in WD.

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I disagree on all points.
I'd go into details but its a matter of opinion and experience.


You mean that they haven't failed to update some codexes for 5+ years.
That they haven't admitted that there isn't a proper points formula in place.
That they fire people you can't fathom why they would and cut down on weird stuff.

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The scout bikes are a different kit to the current ones and if GW were smart they will be useable easily for IG players to convert

Not by much.
The bikes are essentially cut down versions of the current ones with new style guns and thats about it. Any good modeller could probably make them without too much of a headache.
They already have attilan rough riders...

You've hit the key issue right on the head. If they do release bikes, they'l have to take attilans away from the stores which doesnt make sense as rough riders are a auxillary unit like Ogryns and Ratlings. There suppose to be different from the main army! If they remove attilans they outdate the models, and because bikes are better then horses and could mount guns like there marine counter parts, the whole entery of rough rider changes completely...


Why? Given they got rid of the bits so keeping Attilans (even though I hate the models) means that the people who don't want to convert have something to use.

I don't particularly care about rough riders because I bought Krieg ones which are where the idea came from originally (WW1). We used to have bikes and jetbikes.

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Or rather that Space Wolves is almost 2 editions out of date.

I bought the codex on release and I still have it. I'm still happy to play with it and I think its one of the best list GW have ever done. I dont want them to do the new list, but then again they might do new space wolf models so... who am I to complain.


Except it ties into a codex 2 codexes again.

I just want the 13th company to be functioning.

I just wish GW would sort out its message. It communicates badly and whilst selling the 'hobby' at the same time as cutting things that helped make that 'hobby' for some people such as the bits, the website content, the inks etc.
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☺Dave38x
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I appear to have dropped a match into a barrel of nitroglycerine :P ....

my question just stemmed from the fact that since i started playing marines have had more updates that anyone else. I suppose this is fair as they are GW's flagship army (RT cover anyone?) but it annoys me. Nothing i can do about it though, except play the game. I suppose if it removes (some of) the potential exploitation of the list then it is a good thing.

Re the dark eldar, i just feel sorry for my mate who has just got into 40k, picked dark eldar and is immediately stuck with a relatively small and shoddy looking set of models.
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Keravin
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dave38x
9 Jun 2008, 09:14 AM
Re the dark eldar, i just feel sorry for my mate who has just got into 40k, picked dark eldar and is immediately stuck with a relatively small and shoddy looking set of models.
To be fair if he's just got into 40k then he should have been told the reality of Dark Eldar and that there will likely be revised next year.

I feel sorry for those of us who bought them when they were brand new and then got increasingly poor models foisted upon us.
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