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The tragedy in Arizona; Homegrown Terrorism strikes again
Topic Started: Jan 9 2011, 08:09 PM (861 Views)
beatlechick
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In Paul's Arms!
I don't often agree with Keith Olbermann but we need to listen, really listen to what he is saying here. We not only have to truly listen but act upon this regardless of what country we all live in. We are all HUMANS and should act like HUMANS.

I know he mentions certain Fox commentators but he is also talking about all of us - you and me, himself included.


This whole shooting, as well as others that we don't hear about because it isn't a politician or celebrity, is upsetting. A 9 yr old child was murdered here, a child born on the day of the worst terroristic act on American shores (9/11/01) and dies as a result of homegrown terrorism. She was interested in how the American gov't runs.

Keith Olbermann's comments on the shooting in Arizona

This the beautiful 9 yr old angel Christina Taylor Greene

RIP 9/11/01 - 1/8/11 (ironically 1+ 8= 9 9/11)

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I have to say that if this act of terrorism, or any other act of terrorism for that matter, doesn't move you to do your part to end the violence than we are truly a lost nation, a lost world, a lost people.


Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one







Edited by beatlechick, Jan 9 2011, 08:21 PM.
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BlueMolly2009
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Why did he go after all the right wing anchors and politicans and not name the left wing politicians who have said violent things? I agree what he said but he should have named the other side and not just focus on the other. Both sides are at fault, IMHO.
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wackadoo
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BlueMolly2009
Jan 9 2011, 11:18 PM
Why did he go after all the right wing anchors and politicans and not name the left wing politicians who have said violent things? I agree what he said but he should have named the other side and not just focus on the other. Both sides are at fault, IMHO.
Molly, I totally agree with you. We can't just blame one side. There is fault on both sides. People have been hurt on both sides. I don't think it necessarily relates to this story but it is a lesson to be learned. When I saw the reading material and the groups he associated himself with, I think it's a racial crime. He was anti-semetic and a white supremiicist. He was also mentally unstable. I won't be surprised if we find ut that he was a loner and just wanting to be noticed.
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beatlechick
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You weren't paying attention, he called himself out. He said we all should cut the rhetoric and not just a few chosen individuals. Yes he named certain names but then again so are most other media outlets. Palin's crosshairs target, which was finally pulled last night, was a major glare.
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beatlechick
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Funny thing is, seeing some people calling him a leftist because his favorite book is Meine Kampf as well as being an anti-semite. Don't understand that at all.
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BeatleBarb
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I thought it was an excellent commentary and yes, Cathy, he used himself as an example of bad judgment and apologized for it.
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BlueMolly2009
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Yeah, he used himself, but there are probably others he could have named. That's the only thing that bothered me about the editorial, he named all the Conservatives and just apologized for himself, he didn't call anyone else out on his side.
I did agree with what he said. :)
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beatlechick
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Unfortunately, or fortunately, the left side doesn't have the media outlets that Fox gives to the right so the voices aren't as vocal. I can tell you that moveon.org has never talked in veiled insinuations about wanting people they don’t believe in or like targeted or eliminated. They just try, by phone calls and protesting, to get people out there to vote them out.
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Aimee Wilbury
STOP CHANGING THIS ADMINS
beatlechick
Jan 10 2011, 12:02 AM
Funny thing is, seeing some people calling him a leftist because his favorite book is Meine Kampf as well as being an anti-semite. Don't understand that at all.
From what I understand, he didn't have any clear political views, just a crazy mishmash of everything. But either ways, shooting politicians aint very nice at all even if you really, really, really disagree with them. An attack on a politician is basically an attack on the populations right to choose who'll lead them.
Edited by Aimee Wilbury, Jan 10 2011, 02:44 AM.
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beatlechick
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You're right, Aimee, just a lot of insinuations.
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BeatleBarb
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I guess as time goes on we will learn more about the shooter. What is known is that this is an extremely disturbed young man. Who knows what fuels insanity? What cannot help is violent rhetoric and referring to opponents as enemies and terrorists. There must be some responsibility for our words.
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wackadoo
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"You guys see Live and Let Die, the great Bond film with Yaphet Kotto as the bad guy, Mr. Big? In the end they jam a big CO2 pellet in his face and he blew up. I have to tell you, Rush Limbaugh is looking more and more like Mr. Big, and at some point somebody’s going to jam a CO2 pellet into his head and he’s going to explode like a giant blimp. That day may come. Not yet. But we’ll be there to watch. I think he’s Mr. Big, I think Yaphet Kotto. Are you watching, Rush?" -- Chris Matthews

Are you referring to this kind of rhetoric? If so, then I agree.
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BeatleBarb
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"Get on target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M-16 with Jesse Kelly" -Jesse Kelly

Yes, this type of bullcrap and your example as well, Mary Ann.
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wackadoo
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I am tired of it as well and yes, we agree, Barb.
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fab4fan
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I don't think there is anything scuzzier than political partisans trying to make hay out of senseless murders before the bodies have even grown cold.

Unfortunately, Mr Olbermann, who said some very true things, crossed the line when he started naming people he disagreed with. You don't say I apologize, now you have to, you have to and you have to.

Sorry Keith, your special comment really wasn't very special at all.
Mnisthiti mou Kurie!
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BeatleBarb
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Hi John - Don't you think Olbermann is speaking of the violent political landscape and that there are opportunities to speak up and say something, apologize, etc?
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BlueMolly2009
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But why does he have to name names?
I'm personally getting sick of this. The shooter (won't name his name) was mentally unstable and THAT'S the reason why he shot those people. He was against the US governement in general, not against one party over the other.
Both sides need to stop accusing one another and treat each one civily. The Republicans AND the Democrats. What ever happened to civility? You can disagree with people, but when you start saying you HATE one person because their political views or you want that person hurt isn't right. Both sides need to own up and stop this nonsense. Enough finger pointing and the bullshit (sorry). Anger doesn't work, but it seems like being civil these days means you're weak, which IMHO doesn't. I'd rather be in a civil discussion about something than getting in someones face screaming how their opinions and beliefs are wrong.
Okay, I'm getting off my sandbox. Man, I'm riled up tonight. :lol:
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BeatleBarb
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Sand box or soap box - in any event, take your own advice Molly and take it down a notch. We know the shooter was unstable - just suggesting that violent rhetoric only add to an already unstable situation.
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fab4fan
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BeatleBarb
Jan 11 2011, 04:15 PM
Hi John - Don't you think Olbermann is speaking of the violent political landscape and that there are opportunities to speak up and say something, apologize, etc?
Hey Barb,

I'll play. Who should apologize, the guy who said if they bring a knife we bring a gun?
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beatlechick
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John and Molly, I did not intend for a big debate to break out. If you can't see what he is trying to say than forget it, we have already lost. After what I have heard Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and another not so well known conservative say on their shows on Monday - yes I heard it for myself on their shows - live, we don't have a leg to stand on. If we can't tone down the rhetoric on this thread, it shows a lot of where this country is.

We need to stop this and we need to stop this now!

As I said before, he only named those names because they have the biggest forum for their mouths. If only they can retract what was said, this discussion would be done.

BeatleBarb is correct, however I did hear one liberal commentator - Ed Schultz (sp?)(a conservative and on the extreme right person on fb called him a legless pig - so much for trying to be nice) say he was doing a lot of soul searching and apologizes for taking part in the rhetoric and Pete Dominic - a centrist do the same. The only 2 of the 4 I listened to that were calming and actually trying to talk to their listeners were the last 2. Wish I could've said the same for the 1st 2.

We all have a lot to atone for, from here on out STOP THE VITRIOL RHETORIC AND STOP IT NOW!

Now back to your rooms and don't come out until you've written a bajillion times that Cathy is Paul's new LOVER!!!!

Edited by beatlechick, Jan 12 2011, 07:10 AM.
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BlueMolly2009
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I've been listening to a lot of NPR and their shows and I've heard nothing but how they want the right to stop the violent speech, but someone did bring up (I think it was on Talk of the Nation or On Point, can't remember) that back when Bush was President there were some Democrats who spoke violently. I know Tom (can't remember his last name, he hosts On Point) was basically pleading for both sides to stop the violent speech.
And Cathy, I did agree with a lot of what Keith said and I dislike what I saw from Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh. They don't want want to listen and it made me sick what I saw from Glenn Beck (watched a video from his show that a friend on Facebook posted). Both him and Rush were basically saying that the "liberals" were trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Sorry, this isn't a mole hill, it is a mountain.
And Barb, I didn't mean to sound aggressive, and I'm sorry if I did. I just both sides to stop the hate and get more civil, but after what I saw from Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh, it's going to be tough.
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BeatleBarb
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John - it wouldn't be a bad idea.

Molly - I know you're just getting riled up. Passion and healthy debate is a good thing as long as it doesn't get scary crazy.

Cathy - I think we're still just having healthy debate, but I agree with you 100% that the hostility, especially from those in power and with an audience, is not healthy and does not contribute to a healthy country. Oh, and silly girl, your last statement is the most deranged of all - everyone knows its me!
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Aimee Wilbury
STOP CHANGING THIS ADMINS
BlueMolly2009
Jan 12 2011, 03:18 AM
But why does he have to name names?
I'm personally getting sick of this. The shooter (won't name his name) was mentally unstable and THAT'S the reason why he shot those people. He was against the US governement in general, not against one party over the other.
From what Ive heard, the shooter specifically targeted the judge.
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beatlechick
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Barb? YOU?!? BWAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
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BlueMolly2009
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Watched Obama's speech in Arizona tonight and it was very moving. And good news, Sen. Gabby Giffords opened her eyes for the first time, according to Obama, who saw the Sen. earlier today. That's wonderful news that I started crying with joy. Also, I cried when he talked about the other victims.
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wackadoo
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I agree, Molly. It was all pretty incredible. I loved Daniel Hernandez' speech as well as Jan Brewer's. I liked all that Eric Holder and Janet N. had to say. President Obama was excellent and I thought all that he said was very positive and inspirational. He made it all so personal for the victims and their families. I got choked up as well.
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beatlechick
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So did I. You could see Michelle wiping her eyes and see that he had trouble maintaining his composure when he talked about Christina. Sad to see her grandfather cry but how excited he got when the President said she wanted to become the first female baseball player!
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BeatleBarb
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I wasn't able to see the speech, but I've heard positive feedback that Obama said the right things.
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Bill
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I am sick of this nonsense that there is equal responsibility for the hateful tone on both sides. There is not. I'm not saying either side is blameless, but you'd have to be deaf, blind and stupid to think each is as hateful as the other.

I have two questions:
How many Democrats have used gun imagery and metaphors in their rhetoric?
How many Republicans have been shot, shot at, or had their offices vandalised?


edit:
I'll repeat something here that I said on Facebook. This is NOT a "tragedy." That word implies something that could not have been avoided.
The Queensland floods are a tragedy. The Arizona shootings are a crime, and possibly terrorism.

Edited by Bill, Jan 14 2011, 05:48 AM.
Put a puppet on it.
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beatlechick
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Bill, not possible terrorism - terrorism period!
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BeatleBarb
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I agree with you Bill about the amount of imagery, etc. I do believe there is much more of an atmosphere of violent rhetoric on one side more than the other and it seems to be increasing. There is extreme and outrageous vocal media that constantly targets and bashes gays, Latinos, immigrants, antiwar activists, Muslims, etc. It becomes dangerous when alienated people latch onto this and become convinced that their problems are because of these persons. But blaming and keeping score is unproductive and further perpetuates the negativity and hate.

And the floods in Australia are a real tragedy, Bill. I am so sorry. I sure hope you and our other friends are far from the danger and devastation.
Edited by BeatleBarb, Jan 14 2011, 03:40 PM.
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BlueMolly2009
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But does anyone remember how the Democrats were talking when Bush was President? It got pretty heated too.
I'm not a Conservative, but I think both sides are to blame and we NEED to start being more civil towards one another. But sadly that's probably not going to happen anytime soon. :(
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fab4fan
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A picture is worth a thousand words.

GET A CLUE

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BeatleBarb
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While I agree with many of the statements in the above picture and not sure of some of them, we cannot say with certainty what causes a person to act in such a way that he did. I have to believe that there are some contributing factors that compound the problem. For one, there are far too many guns in the reach of the mentally ill. Since we don't know if hate speech fuels insanity, why not put an end to it. Is this the type of free speech we want? What about responsible speech?
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beatlechick
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BeatleBarb
Jan 16 2011, 04:45 PM
What about responsible speech?
Took the words right out of my mouth!
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Dorfliedot
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My opinion this guy acted on own mind well. He was not a right winger or lift. He was just a guy who wanted attention and didn't know how to get it. So, He was selfish and shoots up innocent people. I say, stop giving this guy the attention. Let us focus on other things. Like how this girl lived her life. What where her hopes and dreams. And, how we can make our nation a better place for all of us.
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Monkey Chow
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
Dorfliedot
Jan 17 2011, 05:59 AM
My opinion this guy acted on own mind well. He was not a right winger or lift. He was just a guy who wanted attention and didn't know how to get it. So, He was selfish and shoots up innocent people. I say, stop giving this guy the attention. Let us focus on other things. Like how this girl lived her life. What where her hopes and dreams. And, how we can make our nation a better place for all of us.
Brilliantly stated.
Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey.
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wackadoo
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Dorothy, I could not have said it better myself. You nailed it.

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fab4fan
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beatlechick
Jan 17 2011, 12:56 AM
BeatleBarb
Jan 16 2011, 04:45 PM
What about responsible speech?
Took the words right out of my mouth!
Would those words be these,

Cathy K: Just ask that grizzly gun toting hockey mom bitch "the guerilla from wasilla!"

or these,

Cathy K: Isn't that why the new stupid is spelled Sarah Palin? And the new dumbass fuckhead is spelled Glenn Beck?

Can we really hold others to a higher standard then ourselves? On what plane of what universe... :ponder:
Edited by fab4fan, Jan 18 2011, 01:51 AM.
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fab4fan
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Bill
Jan 14 2011, 05:41 AM
...I am sick of this nonsense that there is equal responsibility for the hateful tone on both sides. There is not. I'm not saying either side is blameless, but you'd have to be deaf, blind and stupid to think each is as hateful as the other...

Spoiler: click to toggle


I agree. :whistle: :innocent: ;)
Edited by fab4fan, Jan 18 2011, 02:05 AM.
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fab4fan
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Monkey Chow
Jan 17 2011, 12:28 PM
Dorfliedot
Jan 17 2011, 05:59 AM
My opinion this guy acted on own mind well. He was not a right winger or lift. He was just a guy who wanted attention and didn't know how to get it. So, He was selfish and shoots up innocent people. I say, stop giving this guy the attention. Let us focus on other things. Like how this girl lived her life. What where her hopes and dreams. And, how we can make our nation a better place for all of us.
Brilliantly stated.
Hear, hear ("Hear, all ye good people, hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say!" )
Mnisthiti mou Kurie!
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wackadoo
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I've always hated the name calling and I have expressed that opinion on here many times. I agree with you, John.
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beatlechick
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fab4fan
Jan 18 2011, 01:45 AM
beatlechick
Jan 17 2011, 12:56 AM
BeatleBarb
Jan 16 2011, 04:45 PM
What about responsible speech?
Took the words right out of my mouth!
Would those words be these,

Cathy K: Just ask that grizzly gun toting hockey mom bitch "the guerilla from wasilla!"

or these,

Cathy K: Isn't that why the new stupid is spelled Sarah Palin? And the new dumbass fuckhead is spelled Glenn Beck?

Can we really hold others to a higher standard then ourselves? On what plane of what universe... :ponder:
Just stating my opinion nothing was violent other than what Sarah Palin uses to kill her prey.

I'm sure if I looked on somebody else's facebook page, these were from Shannon's I believe, than I can find quotes from just about anybody but I won't go that direction.
Edited by beatlechick, Jan 23 2011, 01:31 AM.
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BeatleBarb
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Sounds like Ms. Giffords is doing quite well. I guess only time will tell, but this is good news.
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Bill
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fab4fan
Jan 18 2011, 01:50 AM
Bill
Jan 14 2011, 05:41 AM
...I am sick of this nonsense that there is equal responsibility for the hateful tone on both sides. There is not. I'm not saying either side is blameless, but you'd have to be deaf, blind and stupid to think each is as hateful as the other...

Spoiler: click to toggle


I agree. :whistle: :innocent: ;)
Oh dear! :whistle:

I can't be bothered looking up what I said about that film at the time - anyone who cares to can. Was it actually advocating the assassination of Bush, or was it merely an interesting (to some) fictitious premise... A "second amendment solution" according to some teabaggers?

But if you want to compare and contrast, then let's go there:
How many Republicans have been shot at lately? How much gun imagery has used by Democrats? And yes, there is a difference between "targets" and gun sights. Palin's people later tried to say that crosshairs represented surveying equipment. GIVE ME A BREAK! Do I look that stupid? If they were so innocent, why were the images and tweets scrubbed?
If the only "equivalent" to all the noise about "reloading," "watering the tree of freedom," gun imagery, actually carrying assault rifles to rallies and THIS, is a movie that nobody saw, then I think that says it all. ;)

I accept the likelihood that this killer was a completely freelance lunatic. But either way, the right needs to answer for the violence of their rhetoric.
Put a puppet on it.
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fab4fan
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIJORBRpOPM
Mnisthiti mou Kurie!
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pood for paul

Nice... :-/
"Hey Jude, don't make it bad...
Take a sad song, and make it better..."
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theonlyfab4fan
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
Sometimes a pissing contest can be quite entertaining. Other times, not so much. :nono:
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand
John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' !

I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN

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beatlechick
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Sad video, that is. Old next door neighbors of mine, more liberal than I, used to be a part of the NRA - the wife was, until they got political and endorsed candidates. Was kind of shocked to hear that as I have always hated guns with a passion but was glad to hear she left the organization and guns.
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