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The Stimulus Package...; less controversial than Peter's shorts?
Topic Started: Feb 19 2009, 09:52 PM (654 Views)
wackadoo
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I know it's still a very new package, but what is your opinions so far? Do you think it's going to help? Are you concerned with the size of the bill and that no one had time to read it fully before voting on it? I want it to work but I am worried that it will just mean more spending and not really hitting the problem areas. I've been watching analysts on all of the major networks and no one seems to feel a lot of confience in the effectiveness of this action. On a poll released today, the confidence level of the American people on this being a solution has dropped. The stock market isn't reacting positively either. It's a scarey time for our economy.
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Dorfliedot
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Happy aboutit to extent. :yes:
Why, I have my reasons.
There is a god. :magic: :wub:
Edited by Dorfliedot, Feb 19 2009, 09:55 PM.
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wackadoo
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Is your mind going in the wrong direction, Dorothy? You are funny!
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Dorfliedot
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wackadoo
Feb 19 2009, 10:06 PM
Is your mind going in the wrong direction, Dorothy? You are funny!
My mind is always on money.. :lol:
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temptresss
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are you getting something that we are not?
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Dorfliedot
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temptresss
Feb 19 2009, 10:08 PM
are you getting something that we are not?
A headache..
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My $250 stimulus check is going directly onto my credit card and with any luck at all will help pay for tickets to see Eric Clapton and Steve Winwood in June that go on sale tomorrow morning. They are only playing 14 concerts together this summer.
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Bill
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So it's being spent on imports?

Firstly, I have to say it's very refreshing to see these things analysed and debated so hotly. I wish as many people were paying this much attention a few years ago and perhaps things wouldn't have been allowed to spiral out of control. :whistle:

I'm not smart enough to understand the opposing economic theories but I think most people accept that you spend your way out of a recession and that it takes money to make money.

I do find it curious that the bill that's designed to help real people is getting so much more scrutiny than the bill that bails out the banks that caused the mess in the first place. (and yes, I know the bank bailout was intended to protect the small victims, but it also absolved a lot of fat cats too) I do know that regardless of its wisdom, this trillion dollars is being spent trying to help people and not kill people, and that's got to be a step forward.

Now I dare someone to say, "It will be up to history to judge." :P :peace:
Put a puppet on it.
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temptresss
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are we getting stimulus checks?
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beatlechick
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Bill
Feb 19 2009, 11:44 PM
So it's being spent on imports?

Firstly, I have to say it's very refreshing to see these things analysed and debated so hotly. I wish as many people were paying this much attention a few years ago and perhaps things wouldn't have been allowed to spiral out of control. :whistle:

I'm not smart enough to understand the opposing economic theories but I think most people accept that you spend your way out of a recession and that it takes money to make money.

I do find it curious that the bill that's designed to help real people is getting so much more scrutiny than the bill that bails out the banks that caused the mess in the first place. (and yes, I know the bank bailout was intended to protect the small victims, but it also absolved a lot of fat cats too) I do know that regardless of its wisdom, this trillion dollars is being spent trying to help people and not kill people, and that's got to be a step forward.

Now I dare someone to say, "It will be up to history to judge." :P :peace:
Okay, it'll be up to history to judge!! :P
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temptresss
Feb 19 2009, 11:51 PM
are we getting stimulus checks?
I am wondering the same :innocent:
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beatlechick
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temptresss
Feb 19 2009, 11:51 PM
are we getting stimulus checks?
News to me, too!

Look, I think a good deal of us knew going in for the new administration that we would be fighting a slippery uphill slope. Unfortunately to many people thought they were getting fat off the stock market only to find out that it wasn't necessarily so. To many people sought a high profit margin when selling their houses. What did people think? Did they think that their so-called good fortune would last forever at the expense of the little guy? This took years to get into and it's going to take years to get out of.

Have we hit rock bottom yet? I don't think so. We still have a ways to drop before we hit bottom. Until we do, we will not see the light of day like we did 9 years ago when our collective economies were a helluva lot better than they are now. What needs to happen is that our thinking needs to change. Instead of the fat cats thinking how they can seem to be helping the little people, while screwing them in the end so the fat cats can get fatter, they need to actually help the little people achieve some sort of financial independence.

This is going to take us a long time with a lot of effort to get back on our global feet again. When we do, we can not go back to our comfort zone. We have to start to think about not just our own future but the futures of everyone on this earth.

At least this stimulus is a start. Had the prior administration admitted there was a problem than perhaps things would at least look better. Instead 50% of the American workforce are afraid of losing their jobs. My company told us that if we don't start reaching our monthly financial goals, we will be closing our doors. 10% of the Los Angeles workforce have lost their jobs. That isn't going to end anytime soon but there is always hope and this stimulus package, even though there isn't a lot of confidence in it right now, may at least give a glimmer of hope when it starts to be shown to the general public worldwide.
Edited by beatlechick, Feb 20 2009, 12:24 AM.
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temptresss
Feb 19 2009, 11:51 PM
are we getting stimulus checks?
Yes. Mine is only $250 because I am on SSI for beig poor and disabled.

Obama’s famous plan for a middle-income tax relief was reduced from $500 for individuals to $400 and $800 credit for families, down from the originally intended $1,000. Students will get $2,500 tuition tax credit and Social Security recipients will receive a check for $250 lowered from the original $300.
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wackadoo
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beatlechick
Feb 20 2009, 12:04 AM
temptresss
Feb 19 2009, 11:51 PM
are we getting stimulus checks?
News to me, too!

Look, I think a good deal of us knew going in for the new administration that we would be fighting a slippery uphill slope. Unfortunately to many people thought they were getting fat off the stock market only to find out that it wasn't necessarily so. To many people sought a high profit margin when selling their houses. What did people think? Did they think that their so-called good fortune would last forever at the expense of the little guy? This took years to get into and it's going to take years to get out of.

Have we hit rock bottom yet? I don't think so. We still have a ways to drop before we hit bottom. Until we do, we will not see the light of day like we did 9 years ago when our collective economies were a helluva lot better than they are now. What needs to happen is that our thinking needs to change. Instead of the fat cats thinking how they can seem to be helping the little people, while screwing them in the end so the fat cats can get fatter, they need to actually help the little people achieve some sort of financial independence.

This is going to take us a long time with a lot of effort to get back on our global feet again. When we do, we can not go back to our comfort zone. We have to start to think about not just our own future but the futures of everyone on this earth.

At least this stimulus is a start. Had the prior administration admitted there was a problem than perhaps things would at least look better. Instead 50% of the American workforce are afraid of losing their jobs. My company told us that if we don't start reaching our monthly financial goals, we will be closing our doors. 10% of the Los Angeles workforce have lost their jobs. That isn't going to end anytime soon but there is always hope and this stimulus package, even though there isn't a lot of confidence in it right now, may at least give a glimmer of hope when it starts to be shown to the general public worldwide.
Our housing problems started with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. That wasn't the Bush administration but Clinton's. I know it's the easy way out to blame Bush for every problem we have ever had but it's not always true. Time will prove he was a better president than people want to believe. Go ahead with the attacks...I'm ready.
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FamousGroupie
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Obsessive Saddo Fangirl
wackadoo
Feb 20 2009, 07:47 AM
Go ahead with the attacks...I'm ready.
Oh please God no. No more attacks on anyone for anything. I just don't know if I could cope.
Edited by FamousGroupie, Feb 20 2009, 07:52 AM.
I don't believe in Bondi. I don't believe in rugby league. I believe in Yoko, John Lennon, the Lost Weekend and me.
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wackadoo
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FamousGroupie
Feb 20 2009, 07:50 AM
wackadoo
Feb 20 2009, 07:47 AM
Go ahead with the attacks...I'm ready.
Oh please God no. No more attacks on anyone for anything. I just don't I could cope.
I'm kidding, Clare. Healthy debating is a good thing. I don't want to be attacked, believe me! Yes, we have had enough of that kind of thing here.
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They will both to be found to be idiots. Though alot of the blame will lie at the doors of the Treasury. Marco economists love nice big long equations and they all end with the same letter which actually negates the rest of the equation, the letter is C standing for Confidence. This is total lacking everywhere in the world at the moment, will this stimulus do anything to restore it, I don't think so. It will take time. Is this stimulus a good thing, I think so but I havent read all the details nor sat down and thoroughly studied it.

But one thing I am sure of, the issuing of checks in one lump sum, is bad. It will only lead to stock levels of goods being reduced by sales. The retailers etc will not necessarily use the incoming cash flow to restock and therefore get not manufacturing, house building etc on the up again be it by US based firms or by imports. I would have raised the amount that Americans can earn before paying income tax considerably, thereby giving them the money over a longer period of time direct in their wage packets. This would have a two fold effect, one that the US Treasury does not have to borrow all the money and once or indeed print it at once. Printing money is inflationary now if we are heading to a deflationary spiral a little of that shouldn't do any harm, but economists , financial journalists and governments should not be looking at Japan and Sweden in the 90's. They were the exception not the rule, the rule is today the WORLD is heading into a depression.

I do not like comparisons being made with Roosevelt's New Deal, economically it was a failure but it did stop a revolution of either the right wing ( ok some people will chuckle at that thought in the USA) or left wing variety.

A free market economy is what we ideally would like but we don't have that on the streets, we have laws to stop you from walking into some one's house to take their telly. The financial institutions were allowed to go out and basically rob people and by no means where they all rich. It wasn't as if the US government had not been warned, vigilance is paramount to ensure investor ( consumer ) confidence, think leverage and Exxon.

Here it has been another interesting week, well it would be funny if it wasnt depressing. The garbage that came out of the mouth of the Deputy Governor of the Bank of England produced a reaction of duh and you only figured that out now.
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Monkey Chow
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
I think you make some astute points, Peter. Confidence is key. People invest if they are somewhat confident better times are coming. One thing FDR and Reagan both did was put on their sweaters, sat by the fire, and told America things are going to be ok.

The one thing that I hope will have a positive impact that survived in the stimulus is a tax credit for home buyers who have not owned a home in the past three years of $8,000.00. I hope that gets young people buying instead of waiting for prices to drop more which will in turn help stabilize home prices which will in turn jump start the housing market altogether.
Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey.
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wackadoo
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From the L. A. Times
1. 40 % of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people)are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L. A. are Spanish speaking.
10. In L. A. County 5..1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L. A. County ).

(All 10 of the above are from the Los Angeles Times)

This is pretty shocking. Note that it is NOT referring to hard working U.S. citizens but to people who are here illegally. I guess that's one reason why California is in the mess we are in.
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Old Brown Shoe
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Yeah if our jobs arent going overseas.the illegals are getting them!!~!! :devil:
Rest in Peace Mom!!!!4/7/38-2/8/09 I Miss You!!!
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Dorfliedot
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Old Brown Shoe
Feb 20 2009, 10:00 PM
Yeah if our jobs arent going overseas.the illegals are getting them!!~!! :devil:
Hey! I came legal at the age of 18 :lol:
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Bill
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It is a mistake to assume that every black-market job held by an illegal immigrant is a job taken away from an American worker. Because they're illegal, many of these jobs are done under appalling conditions for very low pay. If illegals weren't doing that work, it's more likely that the jobs wouldn't exist at all because Americans would need decent pay and conditions. I would guess that less than a third of them would translate into real US jobs. Either that, or the cost of goods and services would go up accordingly.

Ironically enough, illegals still need to eat, so some of those black market earnings do go back into the local economy. Which is the lesser of two evils? I don't know.

The problem with illegal workers is not the immigrants themselves. I cannot blame anyone for doing whatever they can to have a marginally better life. The answer is to make employing illegal immigrants a felony and to actually police and enforce those laws. Of course, whether that would actually benefit American workers and the US economy is a different question and one that I'm not clever enough to speculate on.

Just remember that illegals wouldn't come if there wasn't work for them. Don't blame the illegal immigrants, blame the illegal employers.
Put a puppet on it.
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temptresss
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as i stated on a different thread a month or so ago...they should just give us po' folk $250,000 each to buy a house. that'd help everyone. create jobs, give the banks back their strengths and maybe even stop homelessness!
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Bill
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That's Jon Stewart's idea. Instead of rescuing the banks and leaving their customers ruined, bail out the mortagees. That way they can keep their homes and the banks still get their money.

Instead, the banks get bailed out, people are foreclosed on and their houses are sold to people taking out loans from the very same institutions that made the bad loans that were foreclosed on in the first place. Is that a con or what?
Put a puppet on it.
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beatlechick
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wackadoo
Feb 20 2009, 07:47 AM
beatlechick
Feb 20 2009, 12:04 AM
temptresss
Feb 19 2009, 11:51 PM
are we getting stimulus checks?
News to me, too!

Look, I think a good deal of us knew going in for the new administration that we would be fighting a slippery uphill slope. Unfortunately to many people thought they were getting fat off the stock market only to find out that it wasn't necessarily so. To many people sought a high profit margin when selling their houses. What did people think? Did they think that their so-called good fortune would last forever at the expense of the little guy? This took years to get into and it's going to take years to get out of.

Have we hit rock bottom yet? I don't think so. We still have a ways to drop before we hit bottom. Until we do, we will not see the light of day like we did 9 years ago when our collective economies were a helluva lot better than they are now. What needs to happen is that our thinking needs to change. Instead of the fat cats thinking how they can seem to be helping the little people, while screwing them in the end so the fat cats can get fatter, they need to actually help the little people achieve some sort of financial independence.

This is going to take us a long time with a lot of effort to get back on our global feet again. When we do, we can not go back to our comfort zone. We have to start to think about not just our own future but the futures of everyone on this earth.

At least this stimulus is a start. Had the prior administration admitted there was a problem than perhaps things would at least look better. Instead 50% of the American workforce are afraid of losing their jobs. My company told us that if we don't start reaching our monthly financial goals, we will be closing our doors. 10% of the Los Angeles workforce have lost their jobs. That isn't going to end anytime soon but there is always hope and this stimulus package, even though there isn't a lot of confidence in it right now, may at least give a glimmer of hope when it starts to be shown to the general public worldwide.
Our housing problems started with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. That wasn't the Bush administration but Clinton's. I know it's the easy way out to blame Bush for every problem we have ever had but it's not always true. Time will prove he was a better president than people want to believe. Go ahead with the attacks...I'm ready.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was accepting the sub-prime loans that Congress passed but unfortunately their problems started looooooong before that, during Reagan's admin but that was not what I was talking about. I was simply stating that Bush hardly acknowledged that we even had a financial problem. Not one word until he was forced to say something when the financial wizards said we have been in the recession for nearly a year, this was back in November. Had he acknowledged that there was even a hint of a problem in 2007 I could bet that those so-called stimulus checks would've gone for more than just paying the bills.

I really don't think that it's totally fair to bring in the illegal alien problem. They do contribute to our society, money-wise, more than you think. Where else are they buying their clothes, food, rent, etc. Would you want to bend over for 10-12 hours a day picking strawberries at wages per day less than what I make in half a day's work? Until that problem gets solved, than we can talk. Bill's right, it is not the illegal alien that is causing problems, it's their employer.
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ogoble
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:-/ I like getting my package stimulated... :hyper:
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beatlechick
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In Paul's Arms!
Shame on you! :devil: I forgot what that's like! :giggle:
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Queenbee
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wackadoo
Feb 20 2009, 08:54 PM
From the L. A. Times
1. 40 % of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people)are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L. A. are Spanish speaking.
10. In L. A. County 5..1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L. A. County ).

(All 10 of the above are from the Los Angeles Times)

This is pretty shocking. Note that it is NOT referring to hard working U.S. citizens but to people who are here illegally. I guess that's one reason why California is in the mess we are in.
And why does our government let all this happen? I can't get free medical ~ heck I'm willing to pay, but I'm not a vision of perfect health so the insurance company's won't insure me. But illegal aliens get free medical, food stamps, and don't pay into the system.

Our government needs a major overhaul.

PEACE and love to my friends, Judy

When the Power of Love over comes the Love of Power, the world will know Peace.
-Sri Chinmnoy Ghose

Till me meet again ~ I Love you Mike! You were one of a kind.
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Bill
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http://www.cringely.com/2009/01/how-to-end-the-recession/
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Don't blame the illegal immigrants, blame the illegal employers.


Because of illegal employers, legal immigrants can't get a job.

If I didn't have the job I have, I don't know if I'd get a job here, a city where more than 60% of people are Mexicans. Why would someone hire me, a person who doesn't speak fluent Spanish if there are people who can do the same job for less money and can speak Spanish and English?

Employers here want Mexicans working for Mexicans. They are proud to say the city is bilingual but it isn't. Spanish is the first language here and in many other cities.

A French woman I met here couldn't get a job because of that and she is a legal immigrant just like me. She is bilingual too (French/English). Is that fair? I don't think so. Black and White Americans can't get a decent job here either because they don't speak Spanish and are not familiar with the Mexican culture. Some Mexicans work here and return to Mexico and that means the money they make don't stay in USA. I was watching an interview with the Mexican President and he supports it, it seems he believes USA is no man's land.
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ogoble
Feb 21 2009, 07:01 PM
:-/ I like getting my package stimulated... :hyper:
:lol:


Who doesn't?

I love it :P
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Queenbee
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Love Sculpture
Feb 25 2009, 01:51 AM
ogoble
Feb 21 2009, 07:01 PM
:-/ I like getting my package stimulated... :hyper:
:lol:


Who doesn't?

I love it :P
Olen ~ Your a funny man ~ We need more of your sense of humor on the board. :hug:

PEACE and love to my friends, Judy

When the Power of Love over comes the Love of Power, the world will know Peace.
-Sri Chinmnoy Ghose

Till me meet again ~ I Love you Mike! You were one of a kind.
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Dorfliedot
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Beatlelicious
Yes, I am happy with the $250.00 extra I am going to get in may. Who wouldn't be? However, I still wondering what is the Catch? What Are precautions I ask, myself. Hopeful there will be none. I am going to use it on to of course, to catch up on bills. When is there not end-less bills? Wait, those of you who have extra money to spend do not answer that.
Yes, I always got my mind on money. If not on something else. :P :unsure: :whistle:
Edited by Dorfliedot, Feb 26 2009, 02:54 AM.
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Queenbee
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The *catch* is to go out and spend the $250.00

PEACE and love to my friends, Judy

When the Power of Love over comes the Love of Power, the world will know Peace.
-Sri Chinmnoy Ghose

Till me meet again ~ I Love you Mike! You were one of a kind.
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