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All Good Things Come To An End; ...and some bad things too.
Topic Started: Jan 14 2009, 12:06 AM (4,253 Views)
LadyMacca
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-Imagine-
Clare, brilliant post. :clap: :hug:
-Liz
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temptresss
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whoa...the ugly sure has come out in some people.

clare, that was a brilliant post and am glad you wrote it.
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JeffLynnesBeard
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Well, it can't be said that I've ignored what people have had to say on the issue and it has become apparent who really are my friends and who aren't and, believe me, you haven't had to agree with me over this issue to demonstrate friendship. For those of you who have reduced my actions to petulance or a 'temper tantrum', fuck you – and I mean that sincerely, folks. If you don't know me enough now to know that my thoughts run a little deeper than that, if you haven't learned enough about me over the past number of years to realise that there are considered, deep-seated, complex feelings behind this decision, then you don't know me and you never will.

To all intents and purposes, I consider this forum a bit of a poisoned chalice and the role of admin/moderator here is a difficult one, to say the least, especially if you want to attempt to be fair to everyone and not just kick everyone off who you, personally, feel is bringing the forum down. I still believe that it has run its course and that the cracks in the walls were beginning to show a long time ago, but people evidently feel differently. Of course, Liverpool was great and it gave this place a reprieve, but Liverpool also brought its own problems too. I won't divulge any further, but the people involved will know what I'm talking about.

You ask me what I envisaged when I created this place? It was a place for Beatle people to meet up, to talk about music, have interesting discussions and to be generally pleasant to each other. Hence, the forum's spirit of peace and love. Has that been realised? Bollocks has it. OK, you may want to brand me an idealist – fair enough, I'm guilty of that charge, but I really wouldn't have expected all of these people who were into the Beatles to be so bloody nasty to each other so much of the time. Of course, there are some people on this forum who I don't even think are Beatles fans... but that's a different matter entirely.

I'm really sick of the fickle, surface, superficial niceness that goes on with some people and yet, when you know the truth behind some of the exchanges these people have, it is almost painful to watch them being so false on the board. If that has lead to a build-up of cynicism and a loss of faith in me, then I think that's natural. Now, I'm truly sorry that I have let a handful (oh, if only it was just a handful) of people spoil this forum for me. I've tried not to, but everything I know and see has got to me and, well, it's not like treating everyone so fairly all the time got me anywhere – the same things happen all the time.

Well, if you want the forum, you can have it. However, there are conditions. Firstly, you will have to pick a new administrator and two new moderators. By new, I mean no people who have served before. I am completely in agreement with Rose that people need to change their way of thinking about who is right to take this place forward. The other mods, up to this point, have done a very good job, for little thanks and no money. I can't fault them for their commitment and their efforts, but this forum, to go forward from this point, will need completely different management. Secondly, the board members will vote for their administrator and moderators and, before that happens, I will be deleting any known, authorised second accounts so that it is one person, one vote.

Lastly, when you have your admin and two moderators in place, I will close the forum for a short while, probably less than a day, and I will be removing most of my input from here. By that, I don't necessarily mean my posts – I mean the forum rules, the FAQ's, the Beatles Albums/songs index, The artists index in the 'Hearts Club Bands', the rank titles, all of the warnings/disciplinary actions handed out to members, the forum descriptions, etc. Basically, I will be taking much of my creative input out of the forum and whatever team takes over here will have to make their own rules and their own mark on the place.

After I have done this and deleted all of the personal PM's on my account, I will change the name of my account to 'Admin', change my password to something random, change the controlling e-mail address to that of the new admin's and will hand the password over, therefore relinquishing complete control – and ownership (meaning that the new admin will have legal responsibility for everything on the forum) – to whoever you choose to be in charge.

That is my offer and it is pretty much a take it or leave it one. If the majority of responses are accepting of these terms, then the procedure will run as follows;

1. I will create a thread asking for nominations. The nominee must post their intention to stand themselves, with the names of two supporting people who act as nominator and seconder. This means that no-one who doesn't want to stand will be nominated. If you think people should stand, PM them and ask them if they will consider it. This process will last for three days.

2. After the nomination stage has ended, we will then go to a vote for your administrator and two moderators, by means of a board poll. This process will also last for three days. After the close of the poll, I will announce the winners and contact the new administrator to get the e-mail account they want to use to do their board business on.

So, that is the compromise. Think about it and let me know. If you decline, the board will close, as planned.
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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Aimee Wilbury
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I'll accept that, but I'm not gonna vote for anyone. As I said before, I don't like choosing people.

And I'll make a recommendation to everyone -- DO NOT NOMINATE ME TO DO ANYTHING. I'D RUN THIS PLACE INTO THE GROUND.

Thank you.
Edited by Aimee Wilbury, Jan 16 2009, 01:26 PM.
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JeffLynnesBeard
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As I said, you have to announce your own candidacy, together with names of two people who support you. You cannot propose anyone else publically.
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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Aimee Wilbury
STOP CHANGING THIS ADMINS
I missed that part. I just skimmed over it.
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JeffLynnesBeard
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Then may I diplomatically suggest that everyone read it carefully and please don't skim over it.
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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temptresss
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awww, andy, i'm so sorry it came to this. i feel your frustration. i hope things can run smoothly if this is what happens.

p.s. i'm gonna miss the Beard Times most of all. :cry:
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pood for paul

Andy~
I wish you well.

I will, however, miss your "stories" about HM.....
THOSE were BRILLIANT!!!!! :lol:
"Hey Jude, don't make it bad...
Take a sad song, and make it better..."
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bluemeanie
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is now a happily married woman x
I have managed to 'sneek' online (through the backdoor) at work and thought I would have a quick catch up (yes computer is still broken and internet only becomes live from Monday).

ok through other forms of communication I have been told about this :cry: and the amount of friends I have made through here as been unbelieveable but if it happens - hopefully before it finally closes - we can all find another place to click onto and join (well it is just a press of a button)

I must admit I was looking forward to you all joining me in the planning of my wedding to Alan this summer but like I said hopefully we can find another place to chat and things asap.

Good Luck Andy & Fiona :hug: you know were I am if you want us :hug: its been great what you have developed here and hopefully you will come back where-ever we all will be - even if it's just to say hello

Jayne x


ps - give me time to get back online at home so I can save all my addresses and phone numbers in my PM box :)
Jayne x

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is loving life and is so happy xxx
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Merry
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(((Andy))), I'm so sorry its come to this! I understand that this has taken a toll on you, I just hate to lose you here, you're the 'spirit' of the forum! YOU are the person I will miss most of all!

I appreciate that you will leave the forum to us, but again, without your wit, compassion and presence, it just won't be the same.

I respect what you are saying though, and that you've made up your mind. Just please know that no matter what, Gary and I will always consider you a dear friend, and hope that we won't lose touch with you. That would break my heart!


Merry


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JeffLynnesBeard
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temptresss
Jan 16 2009, 01:43 PM
awww, andy, i'm so sorry it came to this. i feel your frustration. i hope things can run smoothly if this is what happens.

p.s. i'm gonna miss the Beard Times most of all. :cry:
Thanks Nancy. If this does happen, I will wish whoever takes the forum over success and a smooth ride. I don't bear any malice to anyone, but I do feel this is time to close this chapter of my life permanently.

ps. I hope that people realise that I could have just closed the doors without telling anyone and without giving people time to save the content they wanted to keep. Also that, throughout this whole discourse, I could have removed any remarks I cared to. But I haven't.* I have let people have their say and listened. OK, the compromise probably isn't ideal to a lot of people, but at least you get to keep your board and your accounts. Less upheaval all over.

*Actually, that's not entirely true. I've removed one post, just riddled with lies, and got rid of the author, because she's been a perpetual thorn in my side for years. Really, she had it coming.
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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JeffLynnesBeard
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pood for paul
Jan 16 2009, 01:43 PM
Andy~
I wish you well.

I will, however, miss your "stories" about HM.....
THOSE were BRILLIANT!!!!! :lol:
Thanks. I'm glad I've made a few people laugh along the way! :sweet:

I hope that, when the dust settles, you'll all remember me for positive things like that rather than for the rather bitter and frustrated individual you're seeing here now.
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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temptresss
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i have to leave for work but, andy, i wouldn't worry about what anyone thinks of you. the people that really know you (and i'm sorry i didn't get the chance) will stand with you. you seem to be a truly upstanding guy with a great sense of humor and personality. i know you have to do what you feel is right.
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JeffLynnesBeard
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Merry
Jan 16 2009, 01:50 PM
(((Andy))), I'm so sorry its come to this! I understand that this has taken a toll on you, I just hate to lose you here, you're the 'spirit' of the forum! YOU are the person I will miss most of all!

I appreciate that you will leave the forum to us, but again, without your wit, compassion and presence, it just won't be the same.

I respect what you are saying though, and that you've made up your mind. Just please know that no matter what, Gary and I will always consider you a dear friend, and hope that we won't lose touch with you. That would break my heart!


Merry
Dearest Merry,

It's very nice to know that I will be missed, but I think this place will pretty much be the same, after the dust settles, if you retain at least 75% of the regular membership and the interest currently shown in the forum continues!

I'm grateful to everyone here who has spoken to me respectfully, regardless of whether they have agreed with me. They are the people - coupled with the strength of feeling people have for the forum - who have forced me to think about a compromise I could feel comfortable with.

You have my e-mail address and are more than welcome to use it. I have since reconsidered getting another myspace page. :P

I have nothing but love for you and Gary.
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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JeffLynnesBeard
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temptresss
Jan 16 2009, 02:04 PM
i have to leave for work but, andy, i wouldn't worry about what anyone thinks of you. the people that really know you (and i'm sorry i didn't get the chance) will stand with you. you seem to be a truly upstanding guy with a great sense of humor and personality. i know you have to do what you feel is right.
Thank you. :) I think you're great, Nancy. Really. I love your sense of humour and passion for life. Perhaps you are one of the people who could really add to the 'new feel' of the board, if people want it to continue?
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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Bill
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It will be a bit like Pink Floyd without Roger Waters.
Still a going concern, pleasing to a lot of people, but those of us who know better will know that something very special is missing.
Put a puppet on it.
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JeffLynnesBeard
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Thanks for the first real smile of the day. ^_^
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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Bill
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Just don't take so bloody long in between solo albums!
Put a puppet on it.
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Aimee Wilbury
STOP CHANGING THIS ADMINS
How about Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers minus Tom Petty.

eh.... no.
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JeffLynnesBeard
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Aimee Wilbury
Jan 16 2009, 02:20 PM
How about Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers minus Tom Petty.

eh.... no.
At least they'd be considerably better looking, as a collective. :devil:
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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Aimee Wilbury
STOP CHANGING THIS ADMINS
JeffLynnesBeard
Jan 16 2009, 02:25 PM
Aimee Wilbury
Jan 16 2009, 02:20 PM
How about Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers minus Tom Petty.

eh.... no.
At least they'd be considerably better looking, as a collective. :devil:
Well, it'd be just the Heartbreakers then. And actually that could have happened...well, maybe not exactly. They got together because Benmont was doing a solo album and then Tom Petty came in and stole them for his band. This would have been late 1975/early '76.
Edited by Aimee Wilbury, Jan 16 2009, 02:34 PM.
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Aimee Wilbury
STOP CHANGING THIS ADMINS
Leave it to me to get Tom Petty in here :duh:
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Mark Stephen Baker
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DCBeatle64
Jan 16 2009, 10:58 AM
I'm not unhappy about it so thats 299...

Get Over it, move on. Get another hobby or something. Some people are reacting with the their own temper tantrums because something is being taken away from them.

I dont get why people are being deluded. This board has changed and its the members which have changed it from a Beatles board to well whatever sh*t people decided to talk about. If people really want to chat then there are other means. This does not have to mean the end. I'm just glad I can still talk to the people I want to and not the idiots I dont want to... Don't deny it, its prob a positive factor for a lot f you
I'm not happy but I'm not cross with Andy either so does that make it 298 and a half?
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Kit_Kat
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Lennon's Mummy xx
It'll be 298 because i'm not cross with Andy either
Posted ImagePosted Image

This can be summed up in one word - organised crime
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Mark Stephen Baker
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I just read Andy's offer. Can I say that far from being a compromise it is an extremely genorous offer which will involve a great deal of work for Andy just at a time when he would like to be doing less here. If it comes off I think we owe him a great debt of thanks and indeed even if it doesn't because he's made the offer so it'll only be our own fault if we cock it up. Thank you Andy!
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Kit_Kat
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Lennon's Mummy xx
Here here
Posted ImagePosted Image

This can be summed up in one word - organised crime
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Bill
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I hope that means you're nominating, Mark. :thumbsup:
Put a puppet on it.
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Mark Stephen Baker
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Kit_Kat
Jan 15 2009, 07:28 PM
Mark Stephen Baker
Jan 15 2009, 04:49 PM
Why do I get the feeling that in 20 years time we're all going to get tracked down by Justin Lee Collins and invited to a tacky party in some London hotel.
You not up for it then Mark?
As long as everyone else turns up. That Dallas one were only one bloke came must have been embarrassing.
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Kit_Kat
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Lennon's Mummy xx
Mark Stephen Baker
Jan 16 2009, 03:14 PM
Kit_Kat
Jan 15 2009, 07:28 PM
Mark Stephen Baker
Jan 15 2009, 04:49 PM
Why do I get the feeling that in 20 years time we're all going to get tracked down by Justin Lee Collins and invited to a tacky party in some London hotel.
You not up for it then Mark?
As long as everyone else turns up. That Dallas one were only one bloke came must have been embarrassing.
Well i'll defo be there
Posted ImagePosted Image

This can be summed up in one word - organised crime
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Dorfliedot
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Beatlelicious
Andy, I don't except it because, I love you as admin. and I love you as you. i also love the old mods.
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wackadoo
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Here is how it is for me. I just had my own little Beatlefest in Vegas and was excited to come here and share it with my SF friends. When I got online and read the news, I felt like crying but I took the time to read everything before posting. I want to say that, as disappointed as I am, I respect Andy for whatever he decides to do. I've met him and I can tell he is a man of great character and he is a deep thinker. There is a reason for his decision and, while I don't understand what he is feeling, I know he is not doing this lightly. He is broken hearted over giving this up.That is obvious to me due to the heart that has gone into this site. I know how hurt many feel but we need to know that Andy is hurting as well. I am going to miss him and his presence here. God bless you, Andy, and I hope we can stay in touch. You are one of the few people I've met in life who I felt a special bond to immediately. Garry felt it as well and he's not like that either.
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RIP Steve. I love and miss you.
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Dorfliedot
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Beatlelicious
For you can pick a admin or mods. They have to be Neutral. They can't be in arqument or disagreement with someone on this board.

No Aimee not you. because, you are unstable to me.

However, I don't anyone can make a better Amin then you Andy.
Or better, Mod like we had.
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Dorfliedot
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wackadoo
Jan 16 2009, 03:41 PM
Here is how it is for me. I just had my own little Beatlefest in Vegas and was excited to come here and share it with my SF friends. When I got online and read the news, I felt like crying but I took the time to read everything before posting. I want to say that, as disappointed as I am, I respect Andy for whatever he decides to do. I've met him and I can tell he is a man of great character and he is a deep thinker. There is a reason for his decision and, while I don't understand what he is feeling, I know he is not doing this lightly. He is broken hearted over giving this up.That is obvious to me due to the heart that has gone into this site. I know how hurt many feel but we need to know that Andy is hurting as well. I am going to miss him and his presence here. God bless you, Andy, and I hope we can stay in touch. You are one of the few people I've met in life who I felt a special bond to immediately. Garry felt it as well and he's not like that either.
Maryann, you put better then I could. exept I never meant him. however, I know Andy is good hearted person.
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Deleted User
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Well, if you want the forum, you can have it. However, there are conditions. Firstly, you will have to pick a new administrator and two new moderators. By new, I mean no people who have served before. I am completely in agreement with Rose that people need to change their way of thinking about who is right to take this place forward. The other mods, up to this point, have done a very good job, for little thanks and no money. I can't fault them for their commitment and their efforts, but this forum, to go forward from this point, will need completely different management. Secondly, the board members will vote for their administrator and moderators and, before that happens, I will be deleting any known, authorised second accounts so that it is one person, one vote.

Lastly, when you have your admin and two moderators in place, I will close the forum for a short while, probably less than a day, and I will be removing most of my input from here. By that, I don't necessarily mean my posts – I mean the forum rules, the FAQ's, the Beatles Albums/songs index, The artists index in the 'Hearts Club Bands', the rank titles, all of the warnings/disciplinary actions handed out to members, the forum descriptions, etc. Basically, I will be taking much of my creative input out of the forum and whatever team takes over here will have to make their own rules and their own mark on the place.

After I have done this and deleted all of the personal PM's on my account, I will change the name of my account to 'Admin', change my password to something random, change the controlling e-mail address to that of the new admin's and will hand the password over, therefore relinquishing complete control – and ownership (meaning that the new admin will have legal responsibility for everything on the forum) – to whoever you choose to be in charge.


Thank you for the post and all details. I understand now why you want to close the forum. You created it, you thought of all details, you named every forum, everything in this forum have your touch and leaving the things the way they are will make you feel responsible for your "little son", YOUR creation. It's nice of you that you care about the privacy of all people who sent you pms.
I was upset with the idea of closing the board but after analyzing the situation I think you have the right to do it. You already gave your reasons. People want everything done. The creation of a new forum will be like moving to another house, it's not easy in the begining but it works, in the end. I hope we all learn that a change is not 100% bad or good, it's necessary and we all need to learn how to deal with changes changing our attitude and perspective.

About people and niceness, niceness always bother me. Some people are naturally nice. It's hard to tell who's trying to keep an image. I won't say I adore Dani and I agree 100% with her because I don't, but she is transparent, you know what to expect from her.

I have no plans to be nice in my life, but I don't like unfair situations.

All the best for all and this thread is becoming something like a snowball.

Because people express in words how they feel don't mean they are drama queens. We have different ways to express our feelings. The way I express is exploding like a bomb. Other people express crying. Others are ok. Live and let live.

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LadyMacca
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-Imagine-
Andy .. no matter what i've said despite all of this, I still respect you and i'll miss you as an Admin. You were great.
Please do keep in touch A & F, whether it be by christmas cards (I love getting one every year btw) or an email. :hug: :hug:
-Liz
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Dorfliedot
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Beatlelicious
By the way Andy. No board is more Important then our friendship. Boards can come and go. However, Friends don't. :hug:
Edited by Dorfliedot, Jan 16 2009, 03:58 PM.
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Rose
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Well, here's another clue for you all, the Walrus was Paul...
*sigh* Why do I just feel so damn sad?

I'm sorry, Andy. I hope I in no way contributed to any angst you have had to deal with now...or in the past three years.
You are...and will remain one of my favorite people that I met in Liverpool.
I just wish I could give you a hug like the one we shared there.

I'm also sorry that this whole topic has seemed to bring out the worst in people (me, included), but I guess when you care about someone...something...you tend to let your emotions get the better of you.

What really saddens me most of all, is that outside of this forum, I won't be able to share in all your wonderful thoughts and stories. Like I have said before...YOU are the reason I came to this forum..and YOU will be who I will miss the most.

Please take care of yourself and Fiona, Andy...I hope someday you will be able to look back at this experience and at least appreciate it for the happiness it brought to so many people. Job well done.


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"I'm in awe of McCartney. He's about the only one that I am in awe of. He can do it all. And he's never let up... He's just so damn effortless." ~ Bob Dylan
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Jacaranda
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Mark Stephen Baker
Jan 16 2009, 02:52 PM
I just read Andy's offer. Can I say that far from being a compromise it is an extremely genorous offer which will involve a great deal of work for Andy just at a time when he would like to be doing less here. If it comes off I think we owe him a great debt of thanks and indeed even if it doesn't because he's made the offer so it'll only be our own fault if we cock it up. Thank you Andy!
I'll second you Mark if this means that you are nominating yourself as Admin.
Edited by Jacaranda, Jan 16 2009, 04:17 PM.
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"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through." General Melchett, Blackadder Goes Forth




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Mark Stephen Baker
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I wouldn't know what to do, computers are not my best subject. Now if you'd like me to administer a model railway.....
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Jacaranda
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Well I'd support you as a mod too.
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"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through." General Melchett, Blackadder Goes Forth




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manon
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Reading your explanation post Andy, make me realise that it wasn't a really nice experience to be an admin on this board. I can feel you are really unhappy with it. Really I didn't imagine it could be so engrossing (is it the right word??) to manage a board about the Beatles. I always thought it was a pleasant hobby. I see now I was wrong.

I don't know about all the little wars people had on the board. I never had any argument with any one. I possibily am naive about niceness.

Anyway, Andy, I am sorry we haven't met in London last summer and I hope you will keep in touch. My respects to Fiona.
"Listen to the color of your dream."
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BeatleBarb
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As I said before to you Andy - I respect your decision and can feel what you've been going through. I know you did not take this lightly as evidenced by your in depth proposal and explanation. Anyone who can't see that is not paying attention. And of course, I feel for those who have close ties to the board and feel somewhat betrayed and upset. I appreciate their candor as well. There is no easy solution. And this is even harder than an in-person dismissal/break-up, etc, because we don't have the luxury of direct and face to face communication. In any event, please know that this was all meaningful and I derived a lot of pleasure from your efforts and the contributions of the moderators and members. Hopefully, we all learned something and had fun along the way. I know I did.
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Gary
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All I know is what I have read. And, although I don't see the complete picture in detail, and certainly do not want to be presumptuous, I sense problems run deeper than have been brought out, i.e., legal and/or personal wranglings within, perhaps.

I feel the only way things can get better is for Andy to remain admin. Getting a new leader would definitely make for a lesser forum. No one could feel his shoes.

My hope (I never give up) is that whatever problems exist can be fixed, even if it means having a closed forum in which only members can participate; declaring stricter rules; etc.; also, giving the admin (Andy) complete autonomy. Whatever is needed to fix these problems. The key is communication. I'm willing to agree to anything to fix the crisis which will keep Andy as admin. If these problems are real, it would be worth any sacrifice on the members part as a way of understanding the dilemma, otherwise it's destroyed.

I feel the answer is to change things for the betterment of what now exists. Clean the house - throw out the garbage collected and change the rules, etc., to everything that is not working accordingly.

Bottom line: Things can only get better with Andy in-charge. If this goes through, things can only become worse, for I declare unto you that if Andy cannot maintain it, no one can. This much I'm sure of.
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Monkey Chow
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
New rule #1: The admin and mods will take no crap from anybody. This is about Beatles and fun;
#2: Violators of #1 will be terminated along with the trade union leaders;
#3: It's only a message board.
Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey.
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pood for paul

:clap:
"Hey Jude, don't make it bad...
Take a sad song, and make it better..."
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Jacaranda
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Monkey Chow
Jan 16 2009, 05:46 PM
New rule #1: The admin and mods will take no crap from anybody. This is about Beatles and fun;
#2: Violators of #1 will be terminated along with the trade union leaders;
#3: It's only a message board.
Ron. :hug: Thanks for being here man.
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"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through." General Melchett, Blackadder Goes Forth




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Beatlesluver
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This debate has gone on for some time. I'm glad Andy has now had the chance to express his true feelings as it couldn't have easy being in charge of this board. As he has made a real effort to allow this board to go forward I suggest all those who wanted this to continue follow his rules and proof that this place can work.
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Queenbee
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Andy ~ I respect your reasons for wanting to leave the board and not have all the responsibilities of being an administrator to Strawberry Fields. It's sad it has to come to this bitter-sweet ending. So much for world peace,
we can't even achieve peace in a Beatle forum. I wish you well and hope your future is what you want.


PEACE and love to my friends, Judy

When the Power of Love over comes the Love of Power, the world will know Peace.
-Sri Chinmnoy Ghose

Till me meet again ~ I Love you Mike! You were one of a kind.
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Sci-Fi/Macca Fan
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I'm goin' down to Junior's Farm!
I want to say something, but I'm not really sure what to say. Especially, since I never got into whatever caused whatever problems we've ever had. I came here to talk about the Beatles and music, which is why I failed to be incredibly active.

If a new forum is created, I'll gladly join, but I would never want to be a moderator or anything like that.
I'm a college student and I don't have too much time to devote to a message board. If there's anything I'm devoted to online it's my blog.
Visit my blog of album reviews and anything else I can think to put on it here!
Please listen to my podcast at Vintage Clothes Radio
Latest podcast: Ringo Starr's Apple Albums, 1970-1974

Do you like worms?

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FamousGroupie
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You're doing it again Andy, making decisions on behalf of everyone else. You say you don't want control any more, but by stating that no former mods or Admin can nominate for new positions, that's controlling, sorry to say. You either care or you don't. You don't want anything to do with the board, so how can you put conditions on it? Are you going to come back and check that none of the former staff have taken over?
Edited by FamousGroupie, Jan 16 2009, 09:28 PM.
I don't believe in Bondi. I don't believe in rugby league. I believe in Yoko, John Lennon, the Lost Weekend and me.
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ogoble
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Andy,
I hope you took the whole Genesis post I earlier made in jest...that's what I intended.

^_^
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Dorfliedot
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Beatlelicious
Personally, I think with out great staff this place will falls apart… I know if few were chosen to be part of SF team that I do not want to be I would leave this board. Andy, was a great admin, He can never be replace. All the mods are great too.
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FamousGroupie
Jan 16 2009, 08:09 AM
Well, f*ck.

I'm glad I got forewarned about this (thankyou, Bill) because I am not happy. I've had a few days after the news to digest it and let me say I am still being very very restrained here, because I am mightily p*ssed off.

I predicted implosion to certain people, but never did I think that you, Andy, would pull the plug. I love you like a brother mate, but seriously, what are you thinking? Got sick of it, so decided to take your bat and ball and go home? I understand how much this place can stress you out at times, but is that any reason to kick us all out and lock the doors? You're known as the Creator around here - but you are not the be all and end all. You say that if Strawberry Fields still existed, you would still be obliged to keep checking the place out. Sorry to have to break it to you, buddy, but that's your issue. Not ours. Anyway, if someone did set up another SF forum, what's stopping you checking the new place out too? Self control, that's all it takes.

I have been a Moderator here from almost day one. I was the original moderator, and I do admit that I haven't always seemed to be the popular choice. The abuse and insults I've dealt with from members here haven't been deserved, and in some cases, not even provoked. But for me, it's water off a duck's back. I don't sugar coat my opinions and I don't sugar coat any reprimands. I'm not apologising for that. I'm not asking you to apologise and carry on with something that you don't want to do any more. Just hand it over and move on. Fiona did that with minimal fuss - but you have to take the whole board with you.

I've put almost three years of my life into this place, and now it's being taken away without so much as a by-your-leave. That just sucks. Do what you have to do Andy, Strawberry Fields will carry on without you. Only now, you'll be known as the guy who turned on us and threw us out.

Having had my say, I wish you all the best with your future endeavours.

Love
Clare

I don't know Clare well enough to form an opinion, but I generally agree with her post.
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JeffLynnesBeard
Jan 16 2009, 01:23 PM
Well, it can't be said that I've ignored what people have had to say on the issue and it has become apparent who really are my friends and who aren't and, believe me, you haven't had to agree with me over this issue to demonstrate friendship. For those of you who have reduced my actions to petulance or a 'temper tantrum', f*ck you – and I mean that sincerely, folks. If you don't know me enough now to know that my thoughts run a little deeper than that, if you haven't learned enough about me over the past number of years to realise that there are considered, deep-seated, complex feelings behind this decision, then you don't know me and you never will.

To all intents and purposes, I consider this forum a bit of a poisoned chalice and the role of admin/moderator here is a difficult one, to say the least, especially if you want to attempt to be fair to everyone and not just kick everyone off who you, personally, feel is bringing the forum down. I still believe that it has run its course and that the cracks in the walls were beginning to show a long time ago, but people evidently feel differently. Of course, Liverpool was great and it gave this place a reprieve, but Liverpool also brought its own problems too. I won't divulge any further, but the people involved will know what I'm talking about.

You ask me what I envisaged when I created this place? It was a place for Beatle people to meet up, to talk about music, have interesting discussions and to be generally pleasant to each other. Hence, the forum's spirit of peace and love. Has that been realised? Bollocks has it. OK, you may want to brand me an idealist – fair enough, I'm guilty of that charge, but I really wouldn't have expected all of these people who were into the Beatles to be so bloody nasty to each other so much of the time. Of course, there are some people on this forum who I don't even think are Beatles fans... but that's a different matter entirely.

I'm really sick of the fickle, surface, superficial niceness that goes on with some people and yet, when you know the truth behind some of the exchanges these people have, it is almost painful to watch them being so false on the board. If that has lead to a build-up of cynicism and a loss of faith in me, then I think that's natural. Now, I'm truly sorry that I have let a handful (oh, if only it was just a handful) of people spoil this forum for me. I've tried not to, but everything I know and see has got to me and, well, it's not like treating everyone so fairly all the time got me anywhere – the same things happen all the time.

Well, if you want the forum, you can have it. However, there are conditions. Firstly, you will have to pick a new administrator and two new moderators. By new, I mean no people who have served before. I am completely in agreement with Rose that people need to change their way of thinking about who is right to take this place forward. The other mods, up to this point, have done a very good job, for little thanks and no money. I can't fault them for their commitment and their efforts, but this forum, to go forward from this point, will need completely different management. Secondly, the board members will vote for their administrator and moderators and, before that happens, I will be deleting any known, authorised second accounts so that it is one person, one vote.

Lastly, when you have your admin and two moderators in place, I will close the forum for a short while, probably less than a day, and I will be removing most of my input from here. By that, I don't necessarily mean my posts – I mean the forum rules, the FAQ's, the Beatles Albums/songs index, The artists index in the 'Hearts Club Bands', the rank titles, all of the warnings/disciplinary actions handed out to members, the forum descriptions, etc. Basically, I will be taking much of my creative input out of the forum and whatever team takes over here will have to make their own rules and their own mark on the place.

After I have done this and deleted all of the personal PM's on my account, I will change the name of my account to 'Admin', change my password to something random, change the controlling e-mail address to that of the new admin's and will hand the password over, therefore relinquishing complete control – and ownership (meaning that the new admin will have legal responsibility for everything on the forum) – to whoever you choose to be in charge.

That is my offer and it is pretty much a take it or leave it one. If the majority of responses are accepting of these terms, then the procedure will run as follows;

1. I will create a thread asking for nominations. The nominee must post their intention to stand themselves, with the names of two supporting people who act as nominator and seconder. This means that no-one who doesn't want to stand will be nominated. If you think people should stand, PM them and ask them if they will consider it. This process will last for three days.

2. After the nomination stage has ended, we will then go to a vote for your administrator and two moderators, by means of a board poll. This process will also last for three days. After the close of the poll, I will announce the winners and contact the new administrator to get the e-mail account they want to use to do their board business on.

So, that is the compromise. Think about it and let me know. If you decline, the board will close, as planned.
That sounds very reasonable. Well done Andy! :clap:
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Bill
Jan 16 2009, 02:12 PM
It will be a bit like Pink Floyd without Roger Waters.
Still a going concern, pleasing to a lot of people, but those of us who know better will know that something very special is missing.
Or the Travelling Wilburys without...wait for it...Jeff Lynne. *groan* :P
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Jacaranda
Jan 16 2009, 04:14 PM
Mark Stephen Baker
Jan 16 2009, 02:52 PM
I just read Andy's offer. Can I say that far from being a compromise it is an extremely genorous offer which will involve a great deal of work for Andy just at a time when he would like to be doing less here. If it comes off I think we owe him a great debt of thanks and indeed even if it doesn't because he's made the offer so it'll only be our own fault if we cock it up. Thank you Andy!
I'll second you Mark if this means that you are nominating yourself as Admin.
Thirded.
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temptresss
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for god's sake, just be happy andy is willing to give this much. if the worst thing we have to do is find a new admin and mods, so be it. i don't think that is asking much. and obviously he his reasons for preferring not to have the same staff this time around. i'm sure it's nothing personal, just a request on his part. maybe it's just so we start with a fresh plate and begin anew. we haven't been in his shoes, we haven't had all the crap slung at us as he has. i can only imagine his buzzing pm's filled with chronic complainers and tattle tailers...no thanky.

we've got it straight, no one can replace andy, but there are other capable people here and that is what our choice is. so instead of griping, someone needs to take a firm stand, maybe talk to andy in private about suggestions and go from there.

the complaining really needs to stop and and let's turn things into a more positive mode. c'mon, i KNOW y'all can do it. (winky-dink).
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ohnotjimagain
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JeffLynnesBeard
Jan 16 2009, 01:23 PM
Well, it can't be said that I've ignored what people have had to say on the issue and it has become apparent who really are my friends and who aren't and, believe me, you haven't had to agree with me over this issue to demonstrate friendship. For those of you who have reduced my actions to petulance or a 'temper tantrum', f*ck you – and I mean that sincerely, folks. If you don't know me enough now to know that my thoughts run a little deeper than that, if you haven't learned enough about me over the past number of years to realise that there are considered, deep-seated, complex feelings behind this decision, then you don't know me and you never will.

To all intents and purposes, I consider this forum a bit of a poisoned chalice and the role of admin/moderator here is a difficult one, to say the least, especially if you want to attempt to be fair to everyone and not just kick everyone off who you, personally, feel is bringing the forum down. I still believe that it has run its course and that the cracks in the walls were beginning to show a long time ago, but people evidently feel differently. Of course, Liverpool was great and it gave this place a reprieve, but Liverpool also brought its own problems too. I won't divulge any further, but the people involved will know what I'm talking about.

You ask me what I envisaged when I created this place? It was a place for Beatle people to meet up, to talk about music, have interesting discussions and to be generally pleasant to each other. Hence, the forum's spirit of peace and love. Has that been realised? Bollocks has it. OK, you may want to brand me an idealist – fair enough, I'm guilty of that charge, but I really wouldn't have expected all of these people who were into the Beatles to be so bloody nasty to each other so much of the time. Of course, there are some people on this forum who I don't even think are Beatles fans... but that's a different matter entirely.

I'm really sick of the fickle, surface, superficial niceness that goes on with some people and yet, when you know the truth behind some of the exchanges these people have, it is almost painful to watch them being so false on the board. If that has lead to a build-up of cynicism and a loss of faith in me, then I think that's natural. Now, I'm truly sorry that I have let a handful (oh, if only it was just a handful) of people spoil this forum for me. I've tried not to, but everything I know and see has got to me and, well, it's not like treating everyone so fairly all the time got me anywhere – the same things happen all the time.

Well, if you want the forum, you can have it. However, there are conditions. Firstly, you will have to pick a new administrator and two new moderators. By new, I mean no people who have served before. I am completely in agreement with Rose that people need to change their way of thinking about who is right to take this place forward. The other mods, up to this point, have done a very good job, for little thanks and no money. I can't fault them for their commitment and their efforts, but this forum, to go forward from this point, will need completely different management. Secondly, the board members will vote for their administrator and moderators and, before that happens, I will be deleting any known, authorised second accounts so that it is one person, one vote.

Lastly, when you have your admin and two moderators in place, I will close the forum for a short while, probably less than a day, and I will be removing most of my input from here. By that, I don't necessarily mean my posts – I mean the forum rules, the FAQ's, the Beatles Albums/songs index, The artists index in the 'Hearts Club Bands', the rank titles, all of the warnings/disciplinary actions handed out to members, the forum descriptions, etc. Basically, I will be taking much of my creative input out of the forum and whatever team takes over here will have to make their own rules and their own mark on the place.

After I have done this and deleted all of the personal PM's on my account, I will change the name of my account to 'Admin', change my password to something random, change the controlling e-mail address to that of the new admin's and will hand the password over, therefore relinquishing complete control – and ownership (meaning that the new admin will have legal responsibility for everything on the forum) – to whoever you choose to be in charge.

That is my offer and it is pretty much a take it or leave it one. If the majority of responses are accepting of these terms, then the procedure will run as follows;

1. I will create a thread asking for nominations. The nominee must post their intention to stand themselves, with the names of two supporting people who act as nominator and seconder. This means that no-one who doesn't want to stand will be nominated. If you think people should stand, PM them and ask them if they will consider it. This process will last for three days.

2. After the nomination stage has ended, we will then go to a vote for your administrator and two moderators, by means of a board poll. This process will also last for three days. After the close of the poll, I will announce the winners and contact the new administrator to get the e-mail account they want to use to do their board business on.

So, that is the compromise. Think about it and let me know. If you decline, the board will close, as planned.
Having read this Andy I can see why you want to get rid of this site.

Whatever happens I hope that we keep in touch and I shall miss reading your interesting threads.
With every mistake we must surely be learning.
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DCBeatle64
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Wings nutter
Love Sculpture
Jan 16 2009, 03:46 PM
About people and niceness, niceness always bother me. Some people are naturally nice. It's hard to tell who's trying to keep an image. I won't say I adore Dani and I agree 100% with her because I don't, but she is transparent, you know what to expect from her.


hmm I dunno how to take that...I actually can be nice, just cant be arsed to be fake. We cant all agree all the time
Edited by DCBeatle64, Jan 16 2009, 11:39 PM.
I'm a BIGGER Beatles fan than you and I'm an even BIGGER Wings fan than that...
'You're a Paul McCartney fan? No you're a Wings fan'. 'Thankyou Scotland' Ho Hey Ho...
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Dorfliedot
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temptresss
Jan 16 2009, 11:22 PM
for god's sake, just be happy andy is willing to give this much. if the worst thing we have to do is find a new admin and mods, so be it. i don't think that is asking much. and obviously he his reasons for preferring not to have the same staff this time around. i'm sure it's nothing personal, just a request on his part. maybe it's just so we start with a fresh plate and begin anew. we haven't been in his shoes, we haven't had all the crap slung at us as he has. i can only imagine his buzzing pm's filled with chronic complainers and tattle tailers...no thanky.

we've got it straight, no one can replace andy, but there are other capable people here and that is what our choice is. so instead of griping, someone needs to take a firm stand, maybe talk to andy in private about suggestions and go from there.

the complaining really needs to stop and and let's turn things into a more positive mode. c'mon, i KNOW y'all can do it. (winky-dink).
I am not happy. Andy Will be the one I miss not the board. and, I am wondering if anything I said , that upset him. I hope not for I really do like Andy.
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DCBeatle64
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FamousGroupie
Jan 16 2009, 09:25 PM
You're doing it again Andy, making decisions on behalf of everyone else. You say you don't want control any more, but by stating that no former mods or Admin can nominate for new positions, that's controlling, sorry to say. You either care or you don't. You don't want anything to do with the board, so how can you put conditions on it? Are you going to come back and check that none of the former staff have taken over?
some people are apparently never happy...

I think Andy's whole speech has probably taken him more time and effort than anything. Yet still people moan. You are getting to keep the board, is that not good enough.

I'm afraid to say though I get the feeling it will still be the same old. Eventually people will start treating mods like sh*t and so on. There are still the same tired old frictions and still very little Beatle chat.

I'm a BIGGER Beatles fan than you and I'm an even BIGGER Wings fan than that...
'You're a Paul McCartney fan? No you're a Wings fan'. 'Thankyou Scotland' Ho Hey Ho...
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Dorfliedot
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Beatlelicious
You know when I talked about the Beatles the most when I was 12 and late 30tys. THere is so, much you can talk about. believe me I talk about them so, much people use to tell me to shut up about them. However, that don't make someone less then a beatle fan.

I guess, you could say, I drove people Beatlespud Out.
Edited by Dorfliedot, Jan 16 2009, 11:44 PM.
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JeffLynnesBeard
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Gary
Jan 16 2009, 05:37 PM
All I know is what I have read. And, although I don't see the complete picture in detail, and certainly do not want to be presumptuous, I sense problems run deeper than have been brought out, i.e., legal and/or personal wranglings within, perhaps.

I feel the only way things can get better is for Andy to remain admin. Getting a new leader would definitely make for a lesser forum. No one could feel his shoes.

My hope (I never give up) is that whatever problems exist can be fixed, even if it means having a closed forum in which only members can participate; declaring stricter rules; etc.; also, giving the admin (Andy) complete autonomy. Whatever is needed to fix these problems. The key is communication. I'm willing to agree to anything to fix the crisis which will keep Andy as admin. If these problems are real, it would be worth any sacrifice on the members part as a way of understanding the dilemma, otherwise it's destroyed.

I feel the answer is to change things for the betterment of what now exists. Clean the house - throw out the garbage collected and change the rules, etc., to everything that is not working accordingly.

Bottom line: Things can only get better with Andy in-charge. If this goes through, things can only become worse, for I declare unto you that if Andy cannot maintain it, no one can. This much I'm sure of.
I'm not the messiah, I'm a very naughty boy.

Seriously Gary, thank you, I really do appreciate this huge show of confidence and faith in me, but I don't want autonomy or control of an elitist forum. Even if I did, I know that there would be a lot of people who wouldn't want to be a part of that.

I want the freedom to talk to people I want to talk to and to not have to deal with problems I don't care about which, as a moderator or admin, you have to. When I say that, I don't mean personal issues which affect the happiness or well-being my friends - I will always care about those.
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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JeffLynnesBeard
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DCBeatle64
Jan 16 2009, 11:38 PM
FamousGroupie
Jan 16 2009, 09:25 PM
You're doing it again Andy, making decisions on behalf of everyone else. You say you don't want control any more, but by stating that no former mods or Admin can nominate for new positions, that's controlling, sorry to say. You either care or you don't. You don't want anything to do with the board, so how can you put conditions on it? Are you going to come back and check that none of the former staff have taken over?
some people are apparently never happy...

I think Andy's whole speech has probably taken him more time and effort than anything. Yet still people moan. You are getting to keep the board, is that not good enough.

I'm afraid to say though I get the feeling it will still be the same old. Eventually people will start treating mods like sh*t and so on. There are still the same tired old frictions and still very little Beatle chat.

Thanks Dani, but it's OK. Clare is right, it is controlling, but - seeing as the subject has been brought up - I will give a further explanation.

In the interests of fairness and making an entirely clean start, I thought it best to discount any previous staff member from standing again.

I want people to, basically, treat this as a chance to start again and have admin and mods who are not jaded by experience or prejudices from previous issues and also ones who will treat each situation by merit and by application of their new board rules. I think it is fair to say that I have attempted to apply the board rules and discipline, without prejudice, and regardless of whether the member is a personal friend or not.

I feel as if I have met with resistance to such objectivity recently and that has also been a bitter pill to swallow. Now, I'm not going to betray confidences or bring any privately discussed issues to this public forum, but rather than have some of the same ex-staff members who do not apply the rules equally to each member (for whatever reason, even history), a clean break is best for all and is in the best interests of all of the members here - and, although I'm giving this up, of course I still care what happens to the decent majority here.

I realise that I am tarring all of our previous mods with the same brush, which is unfair, but I believe it would be even more unfair to name names. All I can say, Clare, is that I think you've been an honest, forthright mod and what people see on here is what they've got with you. It's not personal.
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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JeffLynnesBeard
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ogoble
Jan 16 2009, 09:50 PM
Andy,
I hope you took the whole Genesis post I earlier made in jest...that's what I intended.

^_^
Olen, I thought it was very funny and I appreciated it. :yes:
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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I am not at all jaded. All I require to administrate this forum is a six-figure salary, 12 beautiful female assistants and a private jet. So, when do I start? :whistle:
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JeffLynnesBeard
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I can't really tell whether people, on the whole, agree to my compromise or not, so I have attached a poll to this thread.

Please read my proposal for a compromise on page 21 and then go back to page 1 to vote on it.

I'll close the poll sometime on Sunday evening, UK time - so there is nearly 48 hours in which to vote.

Thanks.
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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I just voted Yes, but now I will also need a case of Dom Perignon and one kilo of Beluga caviar per month amended to my previous demands.
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pood for paul

It appears that Andy is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

You have more patience than I do, Andy........ :huh:
"Hey Jude, don't make it bad...
Take a sad song, and make it better..."
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Bill
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JeffLynnesBeard
Jan 17 2009, 12:01 AM
Thanks Dani, but it's OK. Clare is right, it is controlling, but - seeing as the subject has been brought up - I will give a further explanation.

In the interests of fairness and making an entirely clean start, I thought it best to discount any previous staff member from standing again.

I want people to, basically, treat this as a chance to start again and have admin and mods who are not jaded by experience or prejudices from previous issues and also ones who will treat each situation by merit and by application of their new board rules. I think it is fair to say that I have attempted to apply the board rules and discipline, without prejudice, and regardless of whether the member is a personal friend or not.

I feel as if I have met with resistance to such objectivity recently and that has also been a bitter pill to swallow. Now, I'm not going to betray confidences or bring any privately discussed issues to this public forum, but rather than have some of the same ex-staff members who do not apply the rules equally to each member, a clean break is best for all and is in the best interests of all of the members here - and, although I'm giving this up, of course I still care what happens to the decent majority here.

I realise that I am tarring all of our previous mods with the same brush, which is unfair, but I believe it would be even more unfair to name names. All I can say, Clare, is that I think you've been an honest, forthright mod and what people see on here is what they've got with you. It's not personal.
Andy, you're right, but there's a flipside to all that.

I know I could easily have had several members banned just for the sh*t they put me through, not to mention what they did to others. However, I felt that would be an abuse of power and a conflict of interests.
I also realised that, given the popularity of some of the people involved, it would have led to more strife rather than less.
Perhaps we should have left all of those abusive (and if we're totally honest, downright illegal) posts up for everyone to see so that everyone knew why those people would have been kicked out. Instead, I sucked it up in the interests of the wider harmony. Any favouritism I showed always went against my own personal interests. I probably over-compensated and I take responsibility for that.

I have always tried to assess each case on its individual merits. It's a bit of a stretch, but it's the same reason we have courts - to establish guilt and then to decide appropriate penalty under the specific circumstances. I'm still not convinced that mandatory sentencing is better. Maybe I've been far too compassionate and as ever, I take responsibility for that. I'm sorry for putting others' comfort and happiness ahead of my own. I admit that I still do that. I could always change my ways. Of course, it adds a deep layer of irony to some of the other comments on this page regarding respect for the mods.
Edited by Bill, Jan 17 2009, 12:52 AM.
Put a puppet on it.
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pood for paul

I have always had the great respect for ALL mods, and wouldn't be one if you paid me.
I don't have the patience to deal with what you probably have dealt with.....

(However-if you could arrange for me to meet Paul as payment, please disregard the previous statement.)
"Hey Jude, don't make it bad...
Take a sad song, and make it better..."
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Bill
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Well speaking, as you were, of damned of you do and damned if you don't.... :whistle:
Put a puppet on it.
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Dorfliedot
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Beatlelicious
Hey, I admit, I am a b*tch and have no restraint. Therefore saying, I would not make a good Admin or mod..
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JeffLynnesBeard
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Dotty, I don't agree that you're a b*tch, you have a very kind heart. However, I do agree with you that you wouldn't make the best moderator in the world, although I'm sure you would be full of good intentions. A bit like me, really. :lol:
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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DCBeatle64
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Wings nutter
I'd be an amazing mod :whistle: although not a chance in hell would I do it and not enough people like me and also I get paid to deal with people who are being w*nkers, why would I want to do it for nothing :unsure:
I'm a BIGGER Beatles fan than you and I'm an even BIGGER Wings fan than that...
'You're a Paul McCartney fan? No you're a Wings fan'. 'Thankyou Scotland' Ho Hey Ho...
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Dorfliedot
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Beatlelicious
JeffLynnesBeard
Jan 17 2009, 12:50 AM
Dotty, I don't agree that you're a b*tch, you have a very kind heart. However, I do agree with you that you wouldn't make the best moderator in the world, although I'm sure you would be full of good intentions. A bit like me, really. :lol:
You are saying you have AntiAndy out there too. :unsure:

:P :hug:
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Kit_Kat
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Lennon's Mummy xx
LapisLee I could be your assistant
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This can be summed up in one word - organised crime
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Dorfliedot
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Beatlelicious
Kit_Kat
Jan 17 2009, 12:55 AM
LapisLee I could be your assistant
No Nat. He only make you get undress.
Edited by Dorfliedot, Jan 17 2009, 12:59 AM.
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Kit_Kat
Jan 17 2009, 12:55 AM
LapisLee I could be your assistant
Only 11 more to go! :yahoo:
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JeffLynnesBeard
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Bill
Jan 17 2009, 12:35 AM
Of course, it adds a deep layer of irony to some of the other comments on this page regarding respect for the mods.
As you so rightly pointed out earlier on in this thread, there is a distinct difference between respect and agreement. ;)
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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Colin
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LapisLee
Jan 16 2009, 11:05 PM
JeffLynnesBeard
Jan 16 2009, 01:23 PM
Well, it can't be said that I've ignored what people have had to say on the issue and it has become apparent who really are my friends and who aren't and, believe me, you haven't had to agree with me over this issue to demonstrate friendship. For those of you who have reduced my actions to petulance or a 'temper tantrum', f*ck you – and I mean that sincerely, folks. If you don't know me enough now to know that my thoughts run a little deeper than that, if you haven't learned enough about me over the past number of years to realise that there are considered, deep-seated, complex feelings behind this decision, then you don't know me and you never will.

To all intents and purposes, I consider this forum a bit of a poisoned chalice and the role of admin/moderator here is a difficult one, to say the least, especially if you want to attempt to be fair to everyone and not just kick everyone off who you, personally, feel is bringing the forum down. I still believe that it has run its course and that the cracks in the walls were beginning to show a long time ago, but people evidently feel differently. Of course, Liverpool was great and it gave this place a reprieve, but Liverpool also brought its own problems too. I won't divulge any further, but the people involved will know what I'm talking about.

You ask me what I envisaged when I created this place? It was a place for Beatle people to meet up, to talk about music, have interesting discussions and to be generally pleasant to each other. Hence, the forum's spirit of peace and love. Has that been realised? Bollocks has it. OK, you may want to brand me an idealist – fair enough, I'm guilty of that charge, but I really wouldn't have expected all of these people who were into the Beatles to be so bloody nasty to each other so much of the time. Of course, there are some people on this forum who I don't even think are Beatles fans... but that's a different matter entirely.

I'm really sick of the fickle, surface, superficial niceness that goes on with some people and yet, when you know the truth behind some of the exchanges these people have, it is almost painful to watch them being so false on the board. If that has lead to a build-up of cynicism and a loss of faith in me, then I think that's natural. Now, I'm truly sorry that I have let a handful (oh, if only it was just a handful) of people spoil this forum for me. I've tried not to, but everything I know and see has got to me and, well, it's not like treating everyone so fairly all the time got me anywhere – the same things happen all the time.

Well, if you want the forum, you can have it. However, there are conditions. Firstly, you will have to pick a new administrator and two new moderators. By new, I mean no people who have served before. I am completely in agreement with Rose that people need to change their way of thinking about who is right to take this place forward. The other mods, up to this point, have done a very good job, for little thanks and no money. I can't fault them for their commitment and their efforts, but this forum, to go forward from this point, will need completely different management. Secondly, the board members will vote for their administrator and moderators and, before that happens, I will be deleting any known, authorised second accounts so that it is one person, one vote.

Lastly, when you have your admin and two moderators in place, I will close the forum for a short while, probably less than a day, and I will be removing most of my input from here. By that, I don't necessarily mean my posts – I mean the forum rules, the FAQ's, the Beatles Albums/songs index, The artists index in the 'Hearts Club Bands', the rank titles, all of the warnings/disciplinary actions handed out to members, the forum descriptions, etc. Basically, I will be taking much of my creative input out of the forum and whatever team takes over here will have to make their own rules and their own mark on the place.

After I have done this and deleted all of the personal PM's on my account, I will change the name of my account to 'Admin', change my password to something random, change the controlling e-mail address to that of the new admin's and will hand the password over, therefore relinquishing complete control – and ownership (meaning that the new admin will have legal responsibility for everything on the forum) – to whoever you choose to be in charge.

That is my offer and it is pretty much a take it or leave it one. If the majority of responses are accepting of these terms, then the procedure will run as follows;

1. I will create a thread asking for nominations. The nominee must post their intention to stand themselves, with the names of two supporting people who act as nominator and seconder. This means that no-one who doesn't want to stand will be nominated. If you think people should stand, PM them and ask them if they will consider it. This process will last for three days.

2. After the nomination stage has ended, we will then go to a vote for your administrator and two moderators, by means of a board poll. This process will also last for three days. After the close of the poll, I will announce the winners and contact the new administrator to get the e-mail account they want to use to do their board business on.

So, that is the compromise. Think about it and let me know. If you decline, the board will close, as planned.
That sounds very reasonable. Well done Andy! :clap:
I agree, that's why I voted yes.
There are more stars in the universe than grains of sand on the earth

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Kit_Kat
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Lennon's Mummy xx
Dorfliedot
Jan 17 2009, 12:58 AM
Kit_Kat
Jan 17 2009, 12:55 AM
LapisLee I could be your assistant
No Nat. He only make you get undress.
I'm used to getting undressed :lol:

LapisLee i'm sure Gaye will be your 2nd assistant
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Bill
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JeffLynnesBeard
Jan 17 2009, 01:06 AM
Bill
Jan 17 2009, 12:35 AM
Of course, it adds a deep layer of irony to some of the other comments on this page regarding respect for the mods.
As you so rightly pointed out earlier on in this thread, there is a distinct difference between respect and agreement. ;)
I wasn't referring to anything you had said. I just find it pretty ironic that people who have gleefully hung sh*t on me and others, both here and elsewhere are now concerned about mods being abused.
Put a puppet on it.
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Dorfliedot
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Beatlelicious
Bill
Jan 17 2009, 01:19 AM
JeffLynnesBeard
Jan 17 2009, 01:06 AM
Bill
Jan 17 2009, 12:35 AM
Of course, it adds a deep layer of irony to some of the other comments on this page regarding respect for the mods.
As you so rightly pointed out earlier on in this thread, there is a distinct difference between respect and agreement. ;)
I wasn't referring to anything you had said. I just find it pretty ironic that people who have gleefully hung sh*t on me and others, both here and elsewhere are now concerned about mods being abused.
It was because, I love you as a friend bill :lol: :hug:
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Beatle_Dom
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He Won An Award.....
Hullo SF People,

Been a while since i was here, i was directed to "peek my head around the door" by Bev on Facebook so i did.

It's not surprising you've come to this decision Andy, alot of people on here from what i've heard have had disagreements with each other and it turned very nasty, But i want you to know it hasn't been ALL bad.

This is the forum where i discovered my one true love Erica, i saw her picture in the Picture thread and pursued her over to Myspace where we cultivated a relationship. We met in November 2007 and we knew it was for real. I currently write this post sitting on her bed as she whispers she loves me, it's been hard as we're currently trying to figure out how to get her living in Britain short of getting married but if we have to get married to be together, we will. That is, after all why people get married isn't it?

So although we haven't been on here as much since we've been conquering the world, we still owe our meeting to this forum. This is where it all began...

Thanks alot for this forum, we really appreciate what you've done and if you do finally close, good luck and keep in touch everybody!

This is Johnny Rhythm saying goodnight to yaz and good bless!

Dominic.
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JeffLynnesBeard
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That's an absolutely wonderful post, Dom, and a lovely blast of positivity. My best wishes to you and Erica, always. :peace:
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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Queenbee
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Dom ~ Best of luck for you and Erica. It's nice to hear of relationships that have worked out from meeting on the internet. Let us know if you get married. :hug:

PEACE and love to my friends, Judy

When the Power of Love over comes the Love of Power, the world will know Peace.
-Sri Chinmnoy Ghose

Till me meet again ~ I Love you Mike! You were one of a kind.
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Gary
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JeffLynnesBeard
Jan 16 2009, 11:49 PM
Gary
Jan 16 2009, 05:37 PM
All I know is what I have read. And, although I don't see the complete picture in detail, and certainly do not want to be presumptuous, I sense problems run deeper than have been brought out, i.e., legal and/or personal wranglings within, perhaps.

I feel the only way things can get better is for Andy to remain admin. Getting a new leader would definitely make for a lesser forum. No one can fill his shoes.

My hope (I never give up) is that whatever problems exist can be fixed, even if it means having a closed forum in which only members can participate; declaring stricter rules; etc.; also, giving the admin (Andy) complete autonomy. Whatever is needed to fix these problems. The key is communication. I'm willing to agree to anything to fix the crisis which will keep Andy as admin. If these problems are real, it would be worth any sacrifice on the members part as a way of understanding the dilemma, otherwise it's destroyed.

I feel the answer is to change things for the betterment of what now exists. Clean the house - throw out the garbage collected and change the rules, etc., to everything that is not working accordingly.

Bottom line: Things can only get better with Andy in-charge. If this goes through, things can only become worse, for I declare unto you that if Andy cannot maintain it, no one can. This much I'm sure of.
I'm not the messiah, I'm a very naughty boy.

Seriously Gary, thank you, I really do appreciate this huge show of confidence and faith in me, but I don't want autonomy or control of an elitist forum. Even if I did, I know that there would be a lot of people who wouldn't want to be a part of that.

I want the freedom to talk to people I want to talk to and to not have to deal with problems I don't care about which, as a moderator or admin, you have to. When I say that, I don't mean personal issues which affect the happiness or well-being my friends - I will always care about those.
Andy -- An elitist is the belief or attitude that certain people deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority - this is/would not be that, for this is not politically nor religiously connected, it has nothing to do with hierarchy - This is a music forum with various elements of dialogue between like-minded people. Its democratic platform and spirit would remain intact, and like any democratic process, regulations must be incorporated along the way (accordingly) to whatever evolving elements come along. People would naturally want to respect this attitude. Laws and ordinances must be set up in accordance to keeping and maintaining a peaceful environment. Allowing the masses to intimidate is not good, for everything must be governed to keep the peace - freedom will die without acknowledging and putting this into action . If what is wanted is the freedom to talk and not deal with problems, then govern according to whatever keeps the peace - I feel this is what you and only you can do because people must like and respect their leader, and the true peacemakers do - the rest do not really want to be here. It's not called elitism, nor hierarchy, it's simply governing. Give Peace A Chance... and let freedom ring.
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Merry
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Well, I cast my vote...a 'yes', of course, but with a heavy heart.

I guess I'm not one for too much change, having had quite a lot of it in my lifetime, but I'll just have to accept it, since it's the way Andy (and the majority) want it. I feel that those that oversaw this place did a wonderful job. Of course I don't know what has been going on behind the scenes, and 'ignorance is bliss', it's said.

I hope that we can carry through with Andy's wishes, but again I feel that without him this place just won't have the same spirit. I'll miss him (and Fiona, too!) like crazy, but I guess there's nothing I can say or do that will make him stay. :(

Merry


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beatlechick
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In Paul's Arms!
JeffLynnesBeard
Jan 16 2009, 01:51 PM
temptresss
Jan 16 2009, 01:43 PM
awww, andy, i'm so sorry it came to this. i feel your frustration. i hope things can run smoothly if this is what happens.

p.s. i'm gonna miss the Beard Times most of all. :cry:
Thanks Nancy. If this does happen, I will wish whoever takes the forum over success and a smooth ride. I don't bear any malice to anyone, but I do feel this is time to close this chapter of my life permanently.

ps. I hope that people realise that I could have just closed the doors without telling anyone and without giving people time to save the content they wanted to keep. Also that, throughout this whole discourse, I could have removed any remarks I cared to. But I haven't.* I have let people have their say and listened. OK, the compromise probably isn't ideal to a lot of people, but at least you get to keep your board and your accounts. Less upheaval all over.

*Actually, that's not entirely true. I've removed one post, just riddled with lies, and got rid of the author, because she's been a perpetual thorn in my side for years. Really, she had it coming.
Well, dammit Andy I'm still here!! :lol:
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SuperBet
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IF v_count_days_not_posting_here GT 365. Write 'HELLO!!!'. ENDIF.
JeffLynnesBeard
Jan 16 2009, 01:23 PM
Well, it can't be said that I've ignored what people have had to say on the issue and it has become apparent who really are my friends and who aren't and, believe me, you haven't had to agree with me over this issue to demonstrate friendship. For those of you who have reduced my actions to petulance or a 'temper tantrum', f*ck you – and I mean that sincerely, folks. If you don't know me enough now to know that my thoughts run a little deeper than that, if you haven't learned enough about me over the past number of years to realise that there are considered, deep-seated, complex feelings behind this decision, then you don't know me and you never will.

To all intents and purposes, I consider this forum a bit of a poisoned chalice and the role of admin/moderator here is a difficult one, to say the least, especially if you want to attempt to be fair to everyone and not just kick everyone off who you, personally, feel is bringing the forum down. I still believe that it has run its course and that the cracks in the walls were beginning to show a long time ago, but people evidently feel differently. Of course, Liverpool was great and it gave this place a reprieve, but Liverpool also brought its own problems too. I won't divulge any further, but the people involved will know what I'm talking about.

You ask me what I envisaged when I created this place? It was a place for Beatle people to meet up, to talk about music, have interesting discussions and to be generally pleasant to each other. Hence, the forum's spirit of peace and love. Has that been realised? Bollocks has it. OK, you may want to brand me an idealist – fair enough, I'm guilty of that charge, but I really wouldn't have expected all of these people who were into the Beatles to be so bloody nasty to each other so much of the time. Of course, there are some people on this forum who I don't even think are Beatles fans... but that's a different matter entirely.

I'm really sick of the fickle, surface, superficial niceness that goes on with some people and yet, when you know the truth behind some of the exchanges these people have, it is almost painful to watch them being so false on the board. If that has lead to a build-up of cynicism and a loss of faith in me, then I think that's natural. Now, I'm truly sorry that I have let a handful (oh, if only it was just a handful) of people spoil this forum for me. I've tried not to, but everything I know and see has got to me and, well, it's not like treating everyone so fairly all the time got me anywhere – the same things happen all the time.

Well, if you want the forum, you can have it. However, there are conditions. Firstly, you will have to pick a new administrator and two new moderators. By new, I mean no people who have served before. I am completely in agreement with Rose that people need to change their way of thinking about who is right to take this place forward. The other mods, up to this point, have done a very good job, for little thanks and no money. I can't fault them for their commitment and their efforts, but this forum, to go forward from this point, will need completely different management. Secondly, the board members will vote for their administrator and moderators and, before that happens, I will be deleting any known, authorised second accounts so that it is one person, one vote.

Lastly, when you have your admin and two moderators in place, I will close the forum for a short while, probably less than a day, and I will be removing most of my input from here. By that, I don't necessarily mean my posts – I mean the forum rules, the FAQ's, the Beatles Albums/songs index, The artists index in the 'Hearts Club Bands', the rank titles, all of the warnings/disciplinary actions handed out to members, the forum descriptions, etc. Basically, I will be taking much of my creative input out of the forum and whatever team takes over here will have to make their own rules and their own mark on the place.

After I have done this and deleted all of the personal PM's on my account, I will change the name of my account to 'Admin', change my password to something random, change the controlling e-mail address to that of the new admin's and will hand the password over, therefore relinquishing complete control – and ownership (meaning that the new admin will have legal responsibility for everything on the forum) – to whoever you choose to be in charge.

That is my offer and it is pretty much a take it or leave it one. If the majority of responses are accepting of these terms, then the procedure will run as follows;

1. I will create a thread asking for nominations. The nominee must post their intention to stand themselves, with the names of two supporting people who act as nominator and seconder. This means that no-one who doesn't want to stand will be nominated. If you think people should stand, PM them and ask them if they will consider it. This process will last for three days.

2. After the nomination stage has ended, we will then go to a vote for your administrator and two moderators, by means of a board poll. This process will also last for three days. After the close of the poll, I will announce the winners and contact the new administrator to get the e-mail account they want to use to do their board business on.

So, that is the compromise. Think about it and let me know. If you decline, the board will close, as planned.
Andy,

This is not the first board I posted at (not even PM.com).

All this bitching and everything happens everywhere where the only thing you have in front of you is a computer and not a real person.

People are more encouraged to say things that they would NEVER say it face to face. People do things that they would never do it in the real life.

The big disadvantage of this kind of boards/groups is that there is a 90% of possibility of being misunderstood. That's because we don't see a face, we don't hear how the other person is talking. Is he angry? Is he laughing? The only way to show our intentions are the emoticons and trying to write our posts as polite as we can.

So, I can undertand that you are tired of all of this. The only thing I can disagree with you is the way you wanted to end this. I used to post in another board until I get tired of the people in there. I started to loose interesting in the board and now, from time to time, I remember that that board exists. I think you should have done this from the beggining instead of this "bomb announcement".

Just mi two cents... :)
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kink
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on again, off again
I voted yes to the compromise, although the issue of who gets it is "important" (as important as something on the internet can be). We all want someone we like to take over, and as we can't all like the same people, there'll probably be arguments, hard feelings, same old drama, blah blah blah, I can't really be arsed with any of that. And all this is happening while Springsteen has a new album out, give me a break
Strawberry Fields: We put the FUN in dysfunctional.
-BeatleBarb, 2007
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Bag O' Nails
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MaccaMomma
Bill
Jan 17 2009, 12:35 AM
I know I could easily have had several members banned just for the sh*t they put me through,
OK OK...I know I should've voted for Obama! :pinch: :rofl:
(just trying a little levity here) :innocent:
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Dorfliedot
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Beatlelicious
Bag O' Nails
Jan 17 2009, 06:58 AM
Bill
Jan 17 2009, 12:35 AM
I know I could easily have had several members banned just for the sh*t they put me through,
OK OK...I know I should've voted for Obama! :pinch: :rofl:
(just trying a little levity here) :innocent:
You are forgiving. now , pass the charmin.
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FamousGroupie
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Obsessive Saddo Fangirl
DCBeatle64
Jan 16 2009, 11:38 PM
FamousGroupie
Jan 16 2009, 09:25 PM
You're doing it again Andy, making decisions on behalf of everyone else. You say you don't want control any more, but by stating that no former mods or Admin can nominate for new positions, that's controlling, sorry to say. You either care or you don't. You don't want anything to do with the board, so how can you put conditions on it? Are you going to come back and check that none of the former staff have taken over?
some people are apparently never happy...

I think Andy's whole speech has probably taken him more time and effort than anything. Yet still people moan. You are getting to keep the board, is that not good enough.

I'm afraid to say though I get the feeling it will still be the same old. Eventually people will start treating mods like sh*t and so on. There are still the same tired old frictions and still very little Beatle chat.

You're one to talk, Dani. Who was it had a tantrum and 'left' just because we weren't talking about the 'right' stuff?

And as for treating the Mods like sh*t - please, don't make me laugh.
Edited by FamousGroupie, Jan 17 2009, 07:37 AM.
I don't believe in Bondi. I don't believe in rugby league. I believe in Yoko, John Lennon, the Lost Weekend and me.
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A day in the life
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Gary
Jan 17 2009, 03:16 AM
JeffLynnesBeard
Jan 16 2009, 11:49 PM
Gary
Jan 16 2009, 05:37 PM
All I know is what I have read. And, although I don't see the complete picture in detail, and certainly do not want to be presumptuous, I sense problems run deeper than have been brought out, i.e., legal and/or personal wranglings within, perhaps.

I feel the only way things can get better is for Andy to remain admin. Getting a new leader would definitely make for a lesser forum. No one can fill his shoes.

My hope (I never give up) is that whatever problems exist can be fixed, even if it means having a closed forum in which only members can participate; declaring stricter rules; etc.; also, giving the admin (Andy) complete autonomy. Whatever is needed to fix these problems. The key is communication. I'm willing to agree to anything to fix the crisis which will keep Andy as admin. If these problems are real, it would be worth any sacrifice on the members part as a way of understanding the dilemma, otherwise it's destroyed.

I feel the answer is to change things for the betterment of what now exists. Clean the house - throw out the garbage collected and change the rules, etc., to everything that is not working accordingly.

Bottom line: Things can only get better with Andy in-charge. If this goes through, things can only become worse, for I declare unto you that if Andy cannot maintain it, no one can. This much I'm sure of.
I'm not the messiah, I'm a very naughty boy.

Seriously Gary, thank you, I really do appreciate this huge show of confidence and faith in me, but I don't want autonomy or control of an elitist forum. Even if I did, I know that there would be a lot of people who wouldn't want to be a part of that.

I want the freedom to talk to people I want to talk to and to not have to deal with problems I don't care about which, as a moderator or admin, you have to. When I say that, I don't mean personal issues which affect the happiness or well-being my friends - I will always care about those.
Andy -- An elitist is the belief or attitude that certain people deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority - this is/would not be that, for this is not politically nor religiously connected, it has nothing to do with hierarchy - This is a music forum with various elements of dialogue between like-minded people. Its democratic platform and spirit would remain intact, and like any democratic process, regulations must be incorporated along the way (accordingly) to whatever evolving elements come along. People would naturally want to respect this attitude. Laws and ordinances must be set up in accordance to keeping and maintaining a peaceful environment. Allowing the masses to intimidate is not good, for everything must be governed to keep the peace - freedom will die without acknowledging and putting this into action . If what is wanted is the freedom to talk and not deal with problems, then govern according to whatever keeps the peace - I feel this is what you and only you can do because people must like and respect their leader, and the true peacemakers do - the rest do not really want to be here. It's not called elitism, nor hierarchy, it's simply governing. Give Peace A Chance... and let freedom ring.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with some of the things you mentioned.

This isn't a 'cult' with a leader, it's just a messageboard. Whilst I of course hoped that a compromise can be reached (and this seems to be happening now), it's kind of negative to assume that no other people could do a good job running this or any Board. That doesn't really make much sense. I feel personally that's like putting someone on an unwanted pedestal (whilst others knock them down, funny that).

I voted yes for the compromise. I also just wanted to thank Andy and everyone who worked on here for all their hard work. :)



We all wanna change the world.
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A day in the life
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Bag O' Nails
Jan 17 2009, 06:58 AM
Bill
Jan 17 2009, 12:35 AM
I know I could easily have had several members banned just for the sh*t they put me through,
OK OK...I know I should've voted for Obama! :pinch: :rofl:
(just trying a little levity here) :innocent:
Too late, that ship has sailed and gone. :P

I love that Abbey Road pic in your signature btw.
We all wanna change the world.
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maccascruff
Sing the Changes
Bag O' Nails
Jan 17 2009, 06:58 AM
Bill
Jan 17 2009, 12:35 AM
I know I could easily have had several members banned just for the sh*t they put me through,
OK OK...I know I should've voted for Obama! :pinch: :rofl:
(just trying a little levity here) :innocent:
And we know what happens on Tuesday. :whistle:
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Rose
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Well, here's another clue for you all, the Walrus was Paul...
1. I will create a thread asking for nominations. The nominee must post their intention to stand themselves, with the names of two supporting people who act as nominator and seconder. This means that no-one who doesn't want to stand will be nominated. If you think people should stand, PM them and ask them if they will consider it. This process will last for three days.


I'm having a hard time with this, and I'm not sure why....it will be difficult to choose new Admin/Mods....You do tend to go with who you know or like...which isn't necessarily what is right for this forum. Although I do look forward to seeing who will throw their hat into the ring....
:buz:

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"I'm in awe of McCartney. He's about the only one that I am in awe of. He can do it all. And he's never let up... He's just so damn effortless." ~ Bob Dylan
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"Treasure these few words"