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| THE 'TRUTH POLICE' AND JIMMY CARTER | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 13 2007, 02:12 AM (284 Views) | |
| Deleted User | Oct 13 2007, 02:12 AM Post #1 |
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I really think Former Pres. Jimmy Carter age is catching up with him; I think he is a little “nuts”! THE 'TRUTH POLICE' AND JIMMY CARTER In a stunning interview yesterday on CNN, former President Carter said all kinds of nutty stuff to Wolf Blitzer, who pretty much just sat there and let Mr. Carter bloviate. Bernie and Jane will analyze Mr. Blitzer's performance coming up. But "Talking Points" has some issues, as they say here in California, with Jimmy Carter. Let's take it step by step. Carter thinks President Bush has let us down in the terror war. JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think, during the Clinton years, we kept our country safe, we protected our interests around the world, we were admired by almost everyone on Earth, and we were free. Well, somehow President Carter and Wolf Blister -- Blitzer must have missed Al Qaeda blowing up two of our embassies, attacking the USS Cole, and gaining enough strength in Afghanistan to kill 3,000 Americans on 9/11. Somebody remind Wolf and Jimmy those things happened under President Clinton. WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush said as recently as this week the United States does not tortured detainees. CARTER: That's a -- that's not an accurate statement, if you use the international norms of torture, as has always been honored, certainly in the last 60 years, since the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was promulgated. The problem here is, what are the international norms of torture? Carter never defines them; Blitzer never asked. The Wolf man sat there like the Mummy. Now, I can't read his mind, but I'll admit that President Carter thinks anything other than name, rank, and jihad number qualifies as torture. And then there is Iran. CARTER: I've noticed that even some of the administration officials or spokesmen for them have even advocated using nuclear weapons against Iran. I think it would be a horrible mistake to attack Iran militarily. Now, we can't find one Bush official who ever said using nukes on Iran was justified, ever. Once again, Mr. Blitzer did not challenge President Carter. And here's the real outrage: In 1979, Iran humiliated President Carter and the United States. It held 52 Americans hostage illegally for 444 days. Carter did nothing, unless you count an aborted rescue attempt, which was a fiasco and resulted in eight Americans dead. As everybody knows, Jimmy Carter got hammered by Ronald Reagan mostly because of the Iran debacle. And here's Carter saying the USA has to negotiate with Iran over nukes and has to talk to them about killing Americans in Iraq. Negotiate, sir? I believe you tried that 28 years ago; I believe you failed. Somebody tell Wolf Blitzer. Summing up, that interview was simply awful. President Carter is entitled to his opinion, but history is history, and he has no right to distort it, president or not. CNN has lots of problems. They now have another one. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301375,00.html |
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| fab4fan | Oct 13 2007, 04:35 AM Post #2 |
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Caretaker
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First let me say that O'Reilly should be sending you free, autographed copies of his books. :lol: I say let Jimmy babble all he wants. He's a bitter old man (politically, I admire his humanitarism.) Most people I know who were alive when he was president don't have pleasant memories of his term. Singular. His being associated with the democratic nominnee is not exactly great planning by the DNC. And it will take a lot more missteps to keep the White House Republican, if that's your goal. |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Bill | Oct 13 2007, 05:19 AM Post #3 |
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What's bitter about wanting America to return to her former place in the world as being respected, loved and admired? And why doesn't O'Reilly point out the fact that after the WTC bombing in 1993 there were NO terrorist attacks on US soil until..... oh..... let me think...... oh, yes, I remember..... Bush was in office? I know the answer. There's a lot of bitterness in that article, but not from Carter. |
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| Deleted User | Oct 13 2007, 07:25 AM Post #4 |
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Bill wrote;
1. How would you know he didn't say that? Ooooh that's right you don't know cause you don't watch his show (you said so yourself to me in a previous post). 2. Of course YOU failed to mention that Clinton had the chance not just to have him handed over on a siver platter literally, he declined. Then he had a chance to kill him when one of those unmanned droans spotted him and he didn't. 3. 9 months is all President Bush had before 9-11. Clinton had almost 9 years. The wheels were already in motion and the hijackers were already here when President Bush moved into the White House. 4. Since 9-11, there have been no other successful attacks in the US since. Bush being President. |
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| Deleted User | Oct 13 2007, 07:30 AM Post #5 |
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You worded that carefully Bill and I almost missed it. Almost.
"on US soil" Cleaver otherwise you would have had to mention the USS Cole, under President Clinton. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Oct 13 2007, 09:57 AM Post #6 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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It's a curious phrase, sure, "the international norms of torture" - but what perhaps he was referring to was the illegality of torture under the Geneva convention. Perhaps that should have been clarified, but all the same, the 'editorial' comment is ignorant, childish and offensive. "President Carter thinks anything other than name, rank, and jihad number qualifies as torture" Jihad number? What a class-A prick. Not only have the US tortured terror suspects under the rendition programme which is illegal by international law, they have also funded many questionable regimes which have openly utilised torture in South America purely to support commercial interests - something a little less honourable than protecting the US from terrorism. Perhaps this is President Carter's idea of torture; "Tortures range from simple but brutal blows from a truncheon to electric shocks. Often the torture is more refined: the end of a reed is placed in the anus of a naked man hanging suspended downwards on the pau de arara [parrot's perch] and a piece of cotton soaked in petrol is lit at the other end of the reed. Pregnant women have been forced to watch their husbands being tortured. Other wives have been hung naked beside their husbands and given electric shocks on the sexual parts of their body, while subjected to the worst kind of obscenities. Children have been tortured before their parents and vice versa. The length of sessions depends upon the resistance capacity of the victims and have sometimes continued for days at a time." -- Amnesty International, describing the torture suffered by Brazilians at the hands of the military and the US-run Office of Public Safety (OPS) in the 1960s "For four months I was heavily tortured by the Army in Rio de Janeiro, and then in the Naval Information Center.... Near death, I was taken to the hospital for the sixth time. The beatings had been so severe that my body was one big bruise. The blood clotted under my skin and all the hair on my body fell out. They pulled out all my fingernails. They poked needles through my sexual organs and used a rope to drag me across the floor by my testicles. Right afterwards they hung me upside down. They hung me handcuffed from a grating, removed my artificial leg, and tied my penis so l could not urinate. They forced me to stand on my one leg for three days without food or drink. They gave me so many drugs that my eardrums burst and I am impotent. They nailed my penis to a table for 24 hours. They tied me up like a pig and threw me into a pool so that I nearly drowned. They put me in a completely dark cell where I remained for 30 days urinating and defecating in the same place where I had to sleep. They fed me only bread soaked in water. They put me in a rubber box and turned on a siren. For three days I neither ate nor slept and I nearly went mad...." -- Manuel de Conceicao, peasant leader in Brazil. He was arrested in 1972 and brought before Brazilian security police who had been schooled at US army bases in the latest methods of counterinsurgency and interrogation. He was tortured by Brazilian army units - trained and equipped by US military-aid programs. " [U.S. aid] has tended to flow disproportionately to Latin American governments which torture their citizens..." -- Lars Schoultz, leading academic specialist on human rights in Latin America A young Salvadoran deserted the Salvadoran army and fled to Mexico. His story was published in The Other Side magazine, 1982 Part of his training by eight American Green Berets consisted of "teaching how to torture." He witnessed a boy of about fifteen, suspected of supporting the guerrillas, being subjected to a demonstration torture by the Green Berets They tore out the youth's fingernails, broke his elbows, gouged out his eyes, and then burned him alive. The author reports that the torture sessions continued into the next day and included a thirteen year-old girl. Another victim had various parts of his body burned and was then taken up in a helicopter while still alive and thrown out at 14,000 feet. The defector noted that "often the army goes and throws people out over the sea." (The editors of The Other Side withheld the Salvadoran informant's name "for obvious reasons" but claimed that "the basic outline of his story has been corroborated by independent sources which we believe to be reliable.") They tell how the Chilean military trained and financed by the United States tortured people with electric shock, particularly on the genitals; forced victims to witness the torture of friends and relatives (including children); raped women in the presence of other family members; burned sex organs with acid or scalding water; placed rats in women's vaginas and into the mouths of other prisoners; mutilated, punctured, and cut off various parts of the body, including genitalia, eyes, and tongue; injected air into women's breasts and into veins (causing slow, painful death); shoved bayonets and clubs into the vagina or anus, causing rupture and death." -- Victims and survivors of the fascist coup in Chile in 1973 'My name is Rigoberta Menchu Tum. l am a representative of the "Vincente Menchu" [her father] Revolutionary Christians ... On 9 December 1979, my 16-year-old brother Patrocino was captured and tortured for several days and then taken with twenty other young men to the square in Chajul ... An officer of [President] Lucas Garcia's army of murderers ordered the prisoners to be paraded in a line. Then he started to insult and threaten the inhabitants of the village who were forced to come out of their houses to witness the event. I was with my mother, and we saw Patrocino; he had had his tongue cut out and his toes cut off. The officer jackal made a speech. Every time he paused the soldiers beat the Indian prisoners. When he finished his ranting, the bodies of my brother and the other prisoners were swollen bloody, unrecognizable. lt. was monstrous, but they were still alive. They were thrown on the ground and drenched with gasoline. The soldiers set fire to the wretched bodies with torches and the captain laughed like a hyena and forced the inhabitants of Chajul to watch. This was his objective-that they should be terrified and witness the punishment given to the "guerrillas". -- Rigoberta Menchu Tum, awarded the 1992 Nobel Peace Prize "I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves." -- Henry Kissinger, Secretary of State under Richard Nixon, about Chile prior to the CIA overthrow of the democratically elected government of socialist President Salvadore Allende in 1973 "Four men came in, bearing a cot with a sheet-covered figure. "Sit down," one ordered. "You're going to see a performance by a bad actor, an actor who has forgotten his part. Help him remember it." They uncovered a body entirely purple, missing a foot. "Come closer," another ordered. "Look at him. You'll know him." And she did. It was 27-year-old "El Gordo" Toledo, with whom she had been 20 days before. He could hardly speak, or scream, any more. When Elba maintained that she did not know him, they said, "Let's see"-they pulled out his nails, cut off his remaining ear, cut out his tongue, gouged out his eyes, and killed him slowly as she watched, thinking, "He could be my son." Then they brought another "actor," 26-year-old Eduard Munoz. It took them five hours to kill him, under her eyes. It was worse than any pain they could have inflicted on her, she said. Later she was forced to watch while her cellmates-aged 16, 17, and 40, nude and drugged, were directed to perform an erotic dance before they were raped. Another girl, back from a dreaded torture center, and pregnant, was so crazy that each time she awoke she screamed that her only desire was for her child to be born so she could kill it." -- Elba Vergara, secretary to President Allende (himself murdered by the US-backed Chilean generals), "His forces executed or "disappeared" 3,197 people. Tens of thousands were tortured, hundreds of thousands were forced into exile. Pinochet destroyed the constitution, the parliament, the political parties, the trade unions, and the free universities. " -- Saul Landau, author, about US-backed Augusto Pinochet's impact on Chile, The Progressive, May 2000, p24 "Rosa had her breasts cut off. Then they cut into her chest and took out her heart. The men had their arms broken, their testicles cut off, and their eyes poked out They were killed by slitting their throats and pulling the tongue out through the slit." -- A survivor of a raid by US-backed Contras in Nicaragua in the 1980s "People had been mercilessly tortured simply for being in possession of a leaflet criticizing the regime. Brutality and cruelty on one side, frustration and helplessness on the other. They were being tortured and there was nothing to be done. It was like listening to a friend who has cancer. What comfort, what wise reflection can someone who is comfortable give. Torture might last a short time, but the person will never be the same." -- James Becket, American attorney, in Greece for Amnesty International, describing the torture suffered by Greeks under US-supported dictator Papdopoulos in the 1960s "I can teach you about torture, but sooner or later you'll have to get involved. You'll have to lay on your hands and try it yourselves ... The precise pain, in the precise place, in the precise amount, for the desired effect.'' -- Head of the US Office of Public Safety (OPS) mission in Uruguay in 1981, teaching classes in the art of torture "The torturers from the start had said that the United States supported them and that was what counted." -- Amnesty International report on Greece in the 1960s under US-supported dictator George Papadoupolus "Throughout the world, on any given day, a man, woman or child is likely to be displaced, tortured, killed or "disappeared", at the hands of governments or armed political groups. More often than not, the United States shares the blame." -- Amnesty International, in its annual report on U.S. military aid and human rights Do you think those examples of torture are the kind that Carter deems worse than asking for 'name, rank & jihad number'? O'Reilly's words carry disrespect and contempt for these torture victims. Perhaps he simply doesn't care (rather like Kissinger - his words are outrageous) - although he may do if he or one of his family was in that position. These 'news' programmes are odd and dishonest. They berate and chastise other reporters for allowing general and unsubstantiated comments to go unchecked by making general and unsubstatiated comments themselves. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Bill | Oct 13 2007, 10:20 AM Post #7 |
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That's not my language. It's the language of the Bush administration as they congratulate themselves that the "war on terror" is working. Your man also failed to mention that Clinton had been president for WAY less time than Bush at the time of the 93 bombings. Yet some how 93 is Clinton's fault but 2001 isn't Bush's fault. You can't have it both ways. Pick a side. And if you think I don't know that O'Reilly didn't say that, then why don't you show me where he did. Good luck! The Sudan offer has been debunked. The offer came from a self-appointed go-between who had nothing whatsoever to do with the Sudanese government. Bottom line is that Clinton had the homeland secure and Bush didn't. You'll never get away from that. No amount of spin is going to change that fact. Here's another thing I bet O'Reilly hasn't told you: The White House blew the cover of a private intelligence agency who provided them with the last bin Laden tape before al Qaeda released it. SITE gave the tape to the White House on the express understanding that they NOT tell anyone they had it until AFTER al Qaeda had released so as not to blow the agency's cover. What did the White House do next? They leaked it to Fox News of course, thereby tipping of al Qaeda to the leak and shutting down the whole operation that had been years in the making. File this under "shocking but not suprising" for an administration and a network (if they're not one and the same thing, which is debatable) that is more interested in blowing its own horn than protecting America. Brilliant! :rolleyes: |
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| 9091 | Oct 14 2007, 09:00 AM Post #8 |
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I read about this in the paper the other day...sent me right over the edge :angry: No one, not one single member of the administration will be held accountable for this....it's disgusting. |
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| beatlechick | Oct 14 2007, 05:31 PM Post #9 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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I am so glad that the 93 wtc attack was brought up. You know why? Because we caught them. They are now sitting in prison. No one has even attempted to get them out. No one has even attempted to take over the US as was threatened. Yes the USS Cole was attacked, a warship attacked. A warship that was supposed to be equipped with all kinds of spy stuff. Why didn't they recognize that little boat? Even though they were refueling why weren't they onguard? Were they or were they not in middle eastern waters, waters that aren't necessarily friendly to the US and their allies? Funny how this was on the eve of a Presidential election. I'm not blaming anyone but our own people. Clinton had apparently no warning that this could be happening but Bush did have warning that an attack was imminent on US soil yet Condi Rice chose to not heed the warning. It was in plain black and white, something she acknowledged to the Congressional hearings, that Bin Laden was about to attack. As for Bin Laden being handed to Clinton on a silver platter, even Clinton had acknowledged that was a possiblity. But at the same time when was the last time you have heard that Bush was sending troops after Bin Laden? He, too had the opportunity to get him.......hell even his dad had that opportunity. Bill O'Reilly makes my stomach turn. He and Glenn Beck may speak the truth but the truth they speak comes with their tainted viewpoint. I'd rather hear people like Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson. At least they are a bit more balanced. |
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| beatlechick | Oct 14 2007, 05:40 PM Post #10 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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WOW Andy great bit of research. |
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| Bill | Oct 15 2007, 02:51 AM Post #11 |
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TRIVIA: The White House defines torture as (and only as) that which could lead to organ failure or death. Think through what this really means. Cutting off toes? Not a problem. Beatings? Avoid the major organs and you're okay. Simulated drowning? Go for it! Who here is okay with the though of America doing this and if so, why? Of what possible benefit can it be? FACT: Torture does not work. Placing a prisoner in a position of saying ANYTHING (whether it's true or not) to make the pain stop does not yield reliable information. Any intelligence pro will tell you that. Life is not an episode of "24" people. |
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| Adilah | Oct 15 2007, 05:36 AM Post #12 |
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Who is the truth police?
This is poor journalism. Your Carter is not very popular here but I'd like to think an article against him would be written with better insight and quality. It should offer something to the reader besides a tacit justification of their preconceived fears and opinions. Summing up, that article was simply awful. |
| "We call 10 American deaths a catastrophe. One hundred European deaths are a tragedy. One thousand Asian deaths are a shame. And 10,000 African deaths we call a Monday." - Lissa (1981-2007) السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته | |
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| Adilah | Oct 15 2007, 05:37 AM Post #13 |
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I agree. Who deserves it more? |
| "We call 10 American deaths a catastrophe. One hundred European deaths are a tragedy. One thousand Asian deaths are a shame. And 10,000 African deaths we call a Monday." - Lissa (1981-2007) السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته | |
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