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| 32 Dead In Virginia Tech Shootings; Shooter Deceased, School President Says | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 16 2007, 05:43 PM (1,982 Views) | |
| BlueMolly2009 | Apr 16 2007, 05:43 PM Post #1 |
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LOLcat Freak
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Source: NBC11.com BLACKSBURG, Va. -- Virginia Tech's campus police chief said at least 22 are dead after a shooting at the university, and at least 21 more are wounded. Charles Steger, the school's president, said that a 911 call came to the school's police department before 8 a.m. Monday, concerning an event in West Ambler Johnston Hall. Steger said two hours later, the school got reports of shooting at Norris Hall. Steger said that the shooter in Norris Hall was deceased. Steger described today's events as an incident of "tragic proportions," "The university is shocked and horrified that this would befall us," Steger said. Officials initially said one person was killed and another was wounded in the first shooting, at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a huge campus dormitory that houses nearly 900 students. At this time, there is no explanation for the discrepancy between the total reported dead and the reports from the two locations. Aimee Kanode, a freshman from Martinsville, Va., told The Associated Press that the shooting happened on the fourth floor of the dorm, one floor above her room. Kanode said students are "locked in our dorms surfing the Internet trying to figure out what's going on." Faculty and staff on the Burruss side of the Drillfield are being released and asked to go home effective immediately. Faculty and staff on the War Memorial side are asked to leave at 12:30 p.m. According to the school's Web site, the school has closed Monday and classes will be canceled Tuesday, April 17. The university will remain open for administrative operations. All students, faculty, and staff are required to stay where they are until police execute a planned evacuation. A phased closing will be in effect today; further information will be forthcoming as soon as police secure the campus. Tuesday, there will be a university convocation/ceremony at noon at Cassell Coliseum. The Inn at Virginia Tech has been designated as the site for parents to gather and obtain information. Deadly Shootings Up until Monday, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history took place in 1966 at the University of Texas, where Charles Whitman climbed to the 28th-floor observation deck of a clock tower and opened fire. He killed 16 people before he was gunned down by police. In the Columbine High School bloodbath near Littleton, Colo., in 1999, two teenagers killed 12 fellow students and a teacher before taking their own lives. It was second time in less than a year that the campus was closed because of a shooting. In August 2006, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus. The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges. Edited to update the number of fatalities. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Apr 16 2007, 05:48 PM Post #2 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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This is truly horrible. Terrible.
There are some eyewitness accounts here. How many more of these need to happen before the right to bear arms is radically redefined or just removed from the constitution? I'm shocked and saddened. My thoughts are with the family & friends of those who have died. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Apr 16 2007, 05:54 PM Post #3 |
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Now they're saying at least 30 dead. I don't think we should make new gun control laws, they should ENFORCE the ones they have on the books. Far too many people get killed because of wackjobs getting their hands on guns. But don't punish those who are responsible gun owners. It's the wackos who ruin it for the responsible gun control owners. |
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| Nick2006 | Apr 16 2007, 05:54 PM Post #4 |
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i better call connie |
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| Merry | Apr 16 2007, 05:56 PM Post #5 |
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I've been listening to the news about it, and I'm just horrified!
The death count is up to 30 now and may even go higher. Andy, one thing that will never happen in this country is the repeal of the citizen's "right to bear arms". I'm totally against the private ownership of guns (I hate them!), but there are too many who feel they need them for 'protection'! Merry |
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| ~LovelyRita~ | Apr 16 2007, 06:19 PM Post #6 |
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My roommate is from Virginia and has many friends that go to Virginia tech, so it's been a pretty rough morning for her. Hopefully no one she knows was hurt.... |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Apr 16 2007, 06:28 PM Post #7 |
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So - when does a responsible gun owner become a wacko? Probably when they shoot up a school. How are you supposed to spot the difference between a responsible gun owner and a wacko? Is there a box on the application form which says "Do you intend to go into a school and murder students in cold blood?" - and if there was, would the wacko tick 'yes' or 'no'? Is the right to bear arms really worth what has happened today? This is the 19th school shooting in the United States in the last ten years. All, no doubt, using guns bought by 'responsible gun owners'. What is the greater evil - having nobody but those who need guns for their jobs to be allowed to own them and avoiding these unneccesary deaths - or allowing everyone who wants a gun to have one and having 32 students killed by a wacko who misuses his "right" to bear arms? That really should be a no-brainer, shouldn't it? |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| lit'l willow | Apr 16 2007, 06:41 PM Post #8 |
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As the parent of a college student, this is surely every parent's worst nightmare. I called my daughter when I heard the news around lunchtime and informed her of the situation. She reminded me that she has friends from her (high school) graduating class that attend Virginia Tech. I'm just horrified at the possibilities, and am eagerly awaiting further news.
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| Rose | Apr 16 2007, 08:58 PM Post #9 |
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Well, here's another clue for you all, the Walrus was Paul...
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I'm so upset right now, I don't even know what to say here. ENOUGH already. Andy, you would think the answer would be a 'no-brainer'...unfortunately brains have very little to do with this.
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![]() "I'm in awe of McCartney. He's about the only one that I am in awe of. He can do it all. And he's never let up... He's just so damn effortless." ~ Bob Dylan | |
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| Dorfliedot | Apr 16 2007, 09:00 PM Post #10 |
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Beatlelicious
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I watch it on the news. it is so, sad. why, do people kill?
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| JanaW | Apr 16 2007, 09:08 PM Post #11 |
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My heart goes out to all of these people. We live in a very strange world and you never know how something will affect someone, and what it will cause them to do. The most insignificant thing seems to set people off in the most incredible directions anymore. Guns are too easy to get. Responsible citizens might purchase them, but when it comes time to buy a new hunting rifle or the kids need braces, the first thing to be sold are the guns. That is where the responsible gun owners turn irresponsible. They just sell their guns, newspaper, friends, flea markets...and nobody checks to see who is buying those guns. Our government has given us yet another opened ended assurance of safety in the current gun registration laws, while leaving the back door open for the riff raff. |
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If slaughterhouses had glass walls the whole world would be vegetarian. Linda McCartney | |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Apr 16 2007, 09:25 PM Post #12 |
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I do have to agree there must be better restrictions on people selling their rifles and other guns. It should be harder for people to sell their guns and they need to sell them to responsible gun sellers who go through the procedures in selling them (ie background checks). When my Mom sold my dad's guns she went through my uncle who knows responsible sellers and he had to go through a lot to sell them. Out right banning guns isn't the answer, because people will find any means to get one. The blackmarket trading would go up and I bet organized crime would go up if we banned every gun. |
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| Rose | Apr 16 2007, 09:27 PM Post #13 |
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Well, here's another clue for you all, the Walrus was Paul...
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If we can't outlaw guns...maybe we can make bullets VERY VERY expensive. How does about $5000 a bullet sound? :hmm: |
![]() "I'm in awe of McCartney. He's about the only one that I am in awe of. He can do it all. And he's never let up... He's just so damn effortless." ~ Bob Dylan | |
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| JanaW | Apr 16 2007, 09:30 PM Post #14 |
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Most serious gun owners load their own bullets...so that wouldn't help |
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If slaughterhouses had glass walls the whole world would be vegetarian. Linda McCartney | |
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| Rose | Apr 16 2007, 09:31 PM Post #15 |
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Well, here's another clue for you all, the Walrus was Paul...
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You mean they make their own bullets? Or do they still have to buy them...somewhere? |
![]() "I'm in awe of McCartney. He's about the only one that I am in awe of. He can do it all. And he's never let up... He's just so damn effortless." ~ Bob Dylan | |
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| HGentile | Apr 16 2007, 09:39 PM Post #16 |
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How tragic! No matter how you feel on gun control, I know we can all agree that this is a very horrific tragedy and we all feel terrible for all those involved. From what CNN is reporting, it sounds like there was a terrible flaw in the School's alert system. The school apparently alerts the students to events by email, and after the first shooting around 7:15 am, no alert email was sent for around 2 hours. About 15 minutes after the Alert email went out, the shooter attacked again. Hopefully other schools can adjust their systems to help ensure the students safety. It's a tragic way to learn a lesson though. |
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| beatlechick | Apr 17 2007, 12:01 AM Post #17 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Andy, being one that is very anti-gun but lives with someone who has them I have to say (and my boyfriend does agree) that all guns should be done away with. Okay, that being said yes there can be responsible gunowners however those gunowners can do some crazy things. I had a good good friend that was killed, accidentally, by a responsible gunowner. Unfortunately rifles are so damned easy to get even here in California where we have the strictest gun control laws for any State. You can go and purchase them at any Walmart (another reason why I won't shop there). In quite a few states, the gunshows will bypass the waiting period and sell the gun on the spot. Columbine, the guns used by 2 teens were illegally purchased at a gunshow. The teenage girl that bought it for them didn't need to show any ID. This whole thing is soo upsetting. It rips your apart and tears your heart out. All you can do is hope and pray that us humans can learn that we don't need guns and there are other ways to take out your aggressions without harming any lives. I hope and pray that the families and friends can find some solace and some peace. I hope and pray that humankind can learn that this sh*t is intolerable and that more than a life is taken. Love, hope, and faith fall victim too. |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Apr 17 2007, 12:09 AM Post #18 |
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Read what I wrote in the vent thread. People would still get guns no matter if you banned them. I disagree whole heartedly on banning guns all together. They need to enforce the laws they have already on the books. I'd love to hear what Tassy and other pro gun people have to say about this. I'm getting sick of trying to doing it alone. :lol: |
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| beatlechick | Apr 17 2007, 12:11 AM Post #19 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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If you bring it up, expect the criticism. |
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| HGentile | Apr 17 2007, 12:41 AM Post #20 |
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I think we need to enforce the gun laws we have and not make it so damn easy for people to get guns. There is not enough force on the laws we have, and I think stricter laws should be made, but they need to follow-through on them. Sure they can ban all guns, but look at everything else that is illegal that many people are still doing. Yes, some of the guns used in murders or mass murders are those from a "responsible" owner who followed the correct process to get the gun, but there are also a lot of guns out there used in murders that were gotten illegally. People will still get guns, legally or not. They need to quit being soft in the courtrooms in my opinion and toughen up on the law. |
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| doris mendlovitz | Apr 17 2007, 01:27 AM Post #21 |
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It is a horrible thing that happened the news is bad. It sounded like a mass execution was conducted at the school love doris. |
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| Emilee | Apr 17 2007, 01:28 AM Post #22 |
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truely horrible
. my thoughts are with those who have died and the families who have been affected. |
| I wished I could save her in some sort of time machine. | |
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| Rose | Apr 17 2007, 03:19 AM Post #23 |
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Well, here's another clue for you all, the Walrus was Paul...
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The gun 'laws' aren't working. Too many people have guns...and too many people are dying. |
![]() "I'm in awe of McCartney. He's about the only one that I am in awe of. He can do it all. And he's never let up... He's just so damn effortless." ~ Bob Dylan | |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Apr 17 2007, 03:29 AM Post #24 |
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But getting rid of guns isn't going to help. People will find ways to get the guns. *Am I sounding like a freaking broken record here? :lol: * |
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| fab4fan | Apr 17 2007, 03:29 AM Post #25 |
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Caretaker
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The bodies weren't even cold and out come the talking points. Did you ever stop to consider that if EVERY student had a gun the tragedy would have been much lower? I know my question is stupid, I actually concur with Rose and Chris Rock; bullets should be very costly. Chris Rock - Gun Control |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Dorfliedot | Apr 17 2007, 03:41 AM Post #26 |
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Beatlelicious
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I understand your point. but, why the laughing face? people died here. it not a joke to be taken lightly.. Sorry! but, this has me really upset. The fact someone could go to a school with people minding their own business. and they can shoot and kill them. this awful, sad, and a tragedy that should never happen. when will this end. I feel for there family and friends.
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| BlueMolly2009 | Apr 17 2007, 04:44 AM Post #27 |
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Dotty, I wasn't laughing about the situation, I was laughing at my comment I had made about the broken record. I'm sorry if I offended you.
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Apr 17 2007, 04:54 AM Post #28 |
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LOLcat Freak
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Here is a site to light a candle for the victims. I just did. Light a Candle |
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| Dorfliedot | Apr 17 2007, 04:56 AM Post #29 |
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Beatlelicious
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ok, I am just upset over what happen. I hate people dying.
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| beatlechick | Apr 17 2007, 05:57 AM Post #30 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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By the same token, more people could die with more people having guns on their person. |
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| mozart8mytoe | Apr 17 2007, 06:02 AM Post #31 |
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I think getting rid of all guns would probably help a great many people.
Religion, hatred, anger, depression, food, low self-esteem, high self-esteem, not enough attention as a child, martyrdom, rock and roll, video games, small penises, "the media", their dog, bad grades, lack of appropriate sexual outlets, nothing good on television, that b*tch was asking for it, self-defense, because they can, and good old fashioned shits and giggles.
I have always enjoyed this logic. People who do illegal things will still do them, so why make it illegal. My next door neighbor is going to build his own nuclear weapon no matter what, so it might as well be legal. |
| Nurse, I spy gypsies. Run. | |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Apr 17 2007, 07:43 AM Post #32 |
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Awww, Dotty.
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Apr 17 2007, 10:21 AM Post #33 |
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My first thought on the matter, when I got past the utter shock and the implication of each one of those lives lost was simply why? My immediate reaction was to condemn the part of the Bill Of Rights which allows the right to bear arms and which made the guns available to the murderers. I was not attempting to start a debate, just expressing my grief and frustration at the senselessness of those 31 lives lost. All of those people - the parents, relatives, friends, girlfriends, boyfriends - their lives impacted, torn apart and shattered. Just terrible. Heartbreaking to think about. Stopping to considering a concept so repugnant and idiotic is a waste of my time - this world needs to be a safer, not a more dangerous one where everyone has an instrument of death in their possession. As for bullets being very costly - well, if they weren't so easy and cheap to make then that would be a decent point and not just the joke it is. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 17 2007, 11:57 AM Post #34 |
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i am wondering what is the highest us casualties in one day in Iraq. |
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| Nick2006 | Apr 17 2007, 11:59 AM Post #35 |
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3 Brits involved in the shooting were from my area 2 from Birmingham 1 from Walsall all survived i think |
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| iscreamer1 | Apr 17 2007, 12:46 PM Post #36 |
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It's just devastating. |
Laughter is the shortest distance between two people - Victor Borge | |
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| maccascruff | Apr 17 2007, 12:51 PM Post #37 |
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Sing the Changes
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This is just horrendous. I can't believe how the families and student body are feeling. My heart goes out to them.
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| Sandra | Apr 17 2007, 01:57 PM Post #38 |
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A terrible tragedy.
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| Jacaranda | Apr 17 2007, 02:08 PM Post #39 |
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Handguns were the murder weapons. Two handguns. The scope, magnitude and horror of this tragedy is horrific and I feel so badly for everyone involved. And I feel badly that these students were murdered by weapons are so easy to obtain and so lethal. I cannot stand that this violence continues in the U.S. A handgun, freely available to a psychotic, killed John. Handguns are only designed to kill other people. They should be banned. Statistics from a 2000 report from the Violence Policy Center: "There are an estimated 65 million handguns in America.The deleterious impact of this large handgun population on our murder rate becomes evident when making comparisons to countries that strongly regulate private firearms ownership with an emphasis on minimizing access to handguns. For example, in 1995 the U.S. firearms death rate was 13.7 per 100,000; in Canada 3.9 per 100,000; in Australia 2.9 per 100,000; and, in England and Wales it was 0.4 per 100,000. Contrary to a common rationalization, the United States is not especially more violent than other "older" cultures; in fact, as Western Europe grows more violent, the U.S. becomes less so. The main difference between those nations and our own is that we have more than 60 million handguns. The lesson to be learned from this is, as one public health researcher stated: "People without guns injure people; guns kill them." |
![]() "If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through." General Melchett, Blackadder Goes Forth | |
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| Rose | Apr 17 2007, 02:26 PM Post #40 |
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Well, here's another clue for you all, the Walrus was Paul...
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I can't stop thinking about this. I have 2 sons on a college campus...Schools are becoming a war zone. I realize that no matter how illegal something is...there will be people who will be able to get it. But things as they stand, just isn't working. People keep dying because lunatics are able to purchase guns. I wasn't being glib when I said that bullets should be expensive. I have no knowledge of how easily and cheaply bullets can be made...but I do know they are a very necessary part of a gun...so thats why I suggested it. Something has got to change. My thoughts and prayers are with the victims of this tragedy. "There but for the grace of God...go I" |
![]() "I'm in awe of McCartney. He's about the only one that I am in awe of. He can do it all. And he's never let up... He's just so damn effortless." ~ Bob Dylan | |
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| LIPA | Apr 17 2007, 08:45 PM Post #41 |
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well now we know Massacre suspect was 'troubled' The gunman suspected of carrying out the Virginia Tech massacre in the US has been identified. Cho Seung-Hui was named as the gunman who killed 32 people before taking his own life during a rampage at the Virginia university on Monday. Officials said he was an English major whose creative writing was so disturbing that he was referred to the school's counselling service. Story Here |
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| maccascruff | Apr 18 2007, 01:02 AM Post #42 |
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Sing the Changes
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And he bought the weapon on Friday with a credit card. He met all the legal requirements in Virginia to purchase it. It makes me sick. |
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| beatlechick | Apr 18 2007, 01:03 AM Post #43 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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I think US Casualties is something less than 20 but the Iraqi casualties, that is a different story. |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Apr 18 2007, 01:04 AM Post #44 |
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I don't know why I didn't pay attention to the gun laws in Virginia, but after watching the news today I think maybe Virginia needs to change their laws. I thought each state had the same gun laws, but I was wrong. I know here in NY you have a waiting period and a major background check (I know personally since my Dad had guns). It sounds like Virginia laws need some changing. |
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| maccascruff | Apr 18 2007, 01:07 AM Post #45 |
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Sing the Changes
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I'm not exactly sure what the gun laws are here in Colorado, since I have no interest in guns. I do know that one of the mother's of a student killed at Columbine committed suicide about a year later in a gun shop. She went in under the premise of purchasing a gun. She asked the clerk to show her how to load the gun, grabbed it from him and killed herself right there in the store. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 18 2007, 03:36 AM Post #46 |
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The solution being that every single person in the world should have a firearm on them at all times? That is an extremely frightening suggestion. Did you ever consider that if guns were illegal the tragedies over the last 10 years would have been much lower? Yes, it's true. Maybe not zero, but so much lower. I am not even going to pose the question of whether the lives lost were worth the legality of those weapons. Because the answer is obvious and anyone who has to stop to consider is a monster. I do like the Chris Rock video.
Thank you for the statistics, Lisa. They are very important.
Oh, Linda, this hit me so hard. |
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| JanaW | Apr 18 2007, 04:31 AM Post #47 |
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I can't believe that anyone would every consider "if EVERY student had a gun the tragedy would have been much lower?". The number of unstable people who get guns and actually use them in crimes such as this is really minimal compared to the number of people who actually own guns. We only hear so much about it because of the huge number of people killed at the time. HUNDREDS of people are killed each year by guns...many of them innocent children who are in the wrong place at the wrong time or who are the victims of curiosity. We don't get a list of dead for all of these. Arming EVERYONE is handing EVERY unstable person a gun...think of the consequences to that! Unfortunately our gun laws require only a background check to see if the person making the application to own a gun has ever had a felony conviction...it says nothing about their mental stability. As to a test for mental stability, that is totally useless too, because we all know that the circumstances of life can change your mental state and its stability. As for the fact that a person is not a felon when he applies for a gun permit, does not guarantee he will not become a felon once he gets one. Disarming is a much better answer than arming. |
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If slaughterhouses had glass walls the whole world would be vegetarian. Linda McCartney | |
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| Magical Mystery Girl | Apr 18 2007, 05:11 AM Post #48 |
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Unbelievably sad and unfair... I've said it before and I'll say it again: guns should be illegal, period. People equally have the right to live. |
| "What the caterpillar calls the end, the rest of the world calls a butterfly." - Lao Tzu | |
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| fab4fan | Apr 18 2007, 05:59 AM Post #49 |
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It is troubling to see the moderators' posts calling other postings idiotic and if they don't follow in goosestep with their thinking monsters. I guess we can all have a bad day. I do not own a gun. Hopefully I never will. A friend of mine who is a state trooper has taken me to a shooting range to teach me how to safely handle and fire a gun. I know which of my neighbors have guns in the event that one is ever needed. You guys can have your pollyanna views about guns all you want. The fact is that making guns illegal would not have prevented the tragedy yesterday. But I can unequivocally say that if I had been a student in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th classrooms at V Tech yesterday and armed with a handgun the death toll would have been substantially lower. That's a fact whether you guys want to acknowledge that or not. I won't hold my breath. As kneejerk as my first post was on this thread, due to the callous nature of a post before the bodies were even cold (intentional or, duly noted, not) I immediately called it stupid because as Cathy correctly noted it would lead to more deaths in the long run even though in the case I was referring to it WOULD HAVE SAVED LIVES. I'll go a step further. If all the students were packing the assh*le probably wouldn't have even attempted what he did. You guys are good people and well-intentioned but you never seem to understand that the evil-doers don't follow the rules. Consequently you have to be prepared for all occasions. Ergo, the second amendment. And in the perfect timing argument, Japan has the strictest gun laws in the world. Why don't you google 'mayor of Nagasaki' and see what you come up with. (Apologies to the relatives and friends of the mayor of Nagasaki for my most callous of postings.) |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| LadyMacca | Apr 18 2007, 06:04 AM Post #50 |
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-Imagine-
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My thoughts and prayers for the departed and their familys. And as far as guns are concerned... get rid of 'em, every last one of them. What GOOD does a gun do anyways? |
| -Liz | |
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| JanaW | Apr 18 2007, 06:32 AM Post #51 |
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I am not naive nor am I a pollyanna. I happen to own a shotgun.....98% of the intent behind it is to scare off the neighbors dogs when they come shopping in my trash dumpster. Living approximately 30-45 minutes from the nearest town, also dictates the fact that I own it. I object to the fact that you refer to the person who committed this horrible crime as an assh*le. He was a sick, sick individual. Many people who knew him say he was a nice, shy person. Who knows what kind of triggers provoke this type of behavior. You have raised your children the right way, taught them right from wrong and given them a good education. None of that assures that one day one of them might not snap and commit the same type of crime. Arming everyone in the world is not the answer. I have seen people in forums (this one included) who I would not want to be in the room with on a good day, if they had a weapon, much less on a bad day. BTW...I have two sons. Both are police officers. They would agree wholeheartedly with me. I know this because our state recently approved a gun law giving anyone who owns a gun legally, to carry it with a permit. This law made their jobs much harder, and all of the rest of us much less safe. You never know who has a short fuse....and you also don't know if they are carrying a weapon. Personality checks are not a part of the requirement for carrying a gun. |
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If slaughterhouses had glass walls the whole world would be vegetarian. Linda McCartney | |
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| JanaW | Apr 18 2007, 06:52 AM Post #52 |
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BTW....maybe on the night John Lennon was murdered by a crazed gunman if we had all had guns there could have been a big shootout in the street. John wouldn't have lived...but a lot more people could have died with him. |
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If slaughterhouses had glass walls the whole world would be vegetarian. Linda McCartney | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 18 2007, 09:21 AM Post #53 |
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John, that was a stupid remark when i heard it from some head dead moron (ageist i know but no affliation needs spokespersons like him) from the NRA. Unlike the majority of people in the UK i grew up with guns, but the people did not have access to their guns all the time and certainly didn't walk along the street with them, it's called the army. I have also seen someone shot by a gun murdered, i have had a machine gun pointed at my head coming out of the dark totally unexpectedly. People freeze, their mind goes blank so if you think you would have done anything different from the students and faculty members that were murdered, think again gun or no gun in your procession. You don't know until that moment what your reaction will be, indeed the next time a similar incident happens your reaction may well be different. I have spoken to police officers in a couple of different states ( us ) over the years on this issue fortunately i am not shocked by bad language when they talk of the right to bear arms lobby. I wonder how many dead there would of been in Northern Ireland if everyone had had a handgun, certainly the "troubles" would of been over in a month or so but how many dead 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 or more even. My guess would be around forty thousand. A handgun is to designed to kill not pussycats or mangy dog or put food on the table but human beings. Can you rid your society of guns yes you can but you don't have the guts to try. ps i dont think i am wholly headed moron of the left but i dont think i am wholly headed moron of the right either. If your government had used it's laws to take out illegal guns by area swoops using police, national guard and the professional armed forces they might know how to operate in urban iraq. |
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| Adilah | Apr 18 2007, 09:38 AM Post #54 |
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That's an interesting point. If everyone else had a gun there might have been fewer deaths that day. It also would not have been a rare occurance. If everyone had a gun with them all the time this sort of thing would probably happen far more often. The death toll may be lower each time, but it would happen more. |
| "We call 10 American deaths a catastrophe. One hundred European deaths are a tragedy. One thousand Asian deaths are a shame. And 10,000 African deaths we call a Monday." - Lissa (1981-2007) ÇáÓáÇã Úáíßã æÑÍãÉ Çááå æÈÑßÇÊå | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Apr 18 2007, 09:39 AM Post #55 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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We're entitled to post our personal opinions on this and any other subject. However, had we misused our 'power' here & deleted, amended or censored any opposing views then you would have cause to complain. Besides, we were agreeing with what you said - you called the question you asked stupid and we were just 'goosestepping' along with you.
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| Sandra | Apr 18 2007, 10:10 AM Post #56 |
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In this instance, I agree with John if one of the kids or the college professors had been carrying a gun and knew how to use it then possibly or even probably there may have been fewer deaths. Do I see that as an argument for allowing more people to carry guns? Absolutely not. Nothing that has been said so far has convinced me. I would rather defend myself statistically than by owning a gun (thanks Lisa) 13.7 v 0.6 per 100,000. The suicide and homocide rates also suggest that the availability of guns make death more likely. I would be interested in hearing an argument for carrying a hand gun other than upholding a constitutional right because in my opinion that is just as emotive a topic as a massacre. As to the moderators expressing their opinions on this or any other subject then I can only say that I am very glad that they do. |
| <a href='http://eapr-1/@0@Sandra@1@Edinburgh%2C%20Scotland@' target='_blank'></a> | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 18 2007, 10:20 AM Post #57 |
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Sandra was there a trained police officer in the room, even in the paramilitary forces that are the police in america there are specialised firearms officers. you have a gun big bloody deal you have to point it at someone and shot, you might not hit the person you are aiming at, in fact most miss their intended target and hit someone else. If you want to dispute this ask an forensic sciences officer, hey ask the bloody military , five thousand rounds used enemy killed four. The statement was made by a NRA spokesman, a lobbyist for the gun owners and makers , not by john, who was indeed foolish to say it here, probably being the devils advocate , again. |
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| FamousGroupie | Apr 18 2007, 10:25 AM Post #58 |
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Would you rather us just delete posts and not give a reason why? We're not just moderators, we're human too and have our opinions. |
| I don't believe in Bondi. I don't believe in rugby league. I believe in Yoko, John Lennon, the Lost Weekend and me. | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 18 2007, 10:25 AM Post #59 |
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i have no problem in telling the mods to sod off or calling them wholly headed liiberals, do gooding, grass eating, stalinist egomanics, conservativeophobes, or just plain thick, don't see why you have such a problem. Lessons can be given, easy paymemnt plans are avialable. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Apr 18 2007, 11:13 AM Post #60 |
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...and we can call you a cantankerous, cranky old git. It all depends on the manner in which the insults are hurled.
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| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| maccascruff | Apr 18 2007, 12:57 PM Post #61 |
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Sing the Changes
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I've yet to see a good use for a gun in the hands of ordinary citizens and that includes hunting. Police officers, yes. But students in college most likely would not be properly trained. There are some real heroes emerging from this. At least one of the professors who died, did so in trying to protect a classroom of his students. |
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| Bill | Apr 18 2007, 02:28 PM Post #62 |
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Not true John. The whole problem was that the kid got his guns from entirely legal means. You've gotta worry about a system that allows deadly weapons into the hands of a psycho like this. One of them came from a pawn shop! Now forgive the cheap shot, by I thought allowing murderous psychopaths to have weapons was a BAD thing! And that's why there's no analogy between this and the mayor of Nagasaki. He was shot by an underworld figure who have their own ways of circumventing the laws. As for the student, if he hadn't been able to buy a gun as easy as buying a packet of cigarettes, what would he have done? Joined the mob? Even if he had tried harder to get his hands on some guns, it's possible that authorities would have been alerted to his activities before he managed to kill anyone. So next time you see a crazy idiot on the street, or a drunken slob staggering out of a bar, imagine him with a gun in his hand, because that's really what you're advocating. I'm not convinced that would make the world a safer place. When everyone is tooled up, that will just mean that the psychos are going to need bigger guns. Maybe a machine gun. Or a bazooka. Where will it end? |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 18 2007, 02:33 PM Post #63 |
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Exactly. Actually, if everyone needs guns, children should probably have them as well to protect themselves from the loonies. |
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| BEATNUT | Apr 18 2007, 02:33 PM Post #64 |
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Like the bumper sticker says: "When you outlaw guns only outlaws will have them" |
| Location: Self-Imposed Exile. | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 18 2007, 02:38 PM Post #65 |
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only outlaws and terriorists have guns here. because of that nutters can't shoot 32 people. |
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| Bill | Apr 18 2007, 02:42 PM Post #66 |
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It's too simple to say that. You can't drive a car (which can be a deadly weapon in the wrong hands) without being able prove that you can handle one responsibly. But any loon with a grudge against the world can get a gun. Where's the sense in that? For the record, I'm not for banning guns - I'm for controlling them. Somewhere between total prohibition and the situation in Virginia is a workable solution - if only you're prepared to look for it. |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 18 2007, 02:44 PM Post #67 |
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well you turned me down as a mod, i still don't see what is wrong with saying "your complaint is stupid, you were talking a load of old bollocks and deserved all you got" or the martin style five paragraphs answer to the question how do i turn off my computer. |
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| Bill | Apr 18 2007, 02:48 PM Post #68 |
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As they said in Yes Minister, You have to learn to say things with tact and finesse, you berk!
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| LadyMacca | Apr 18 2007, 04:27 PM Post #69 |
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:mellow: yeaah I was so hoping that this gun talk wouldn't lead to or be brought up about that night... thanks. |
| -Liz | |
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| JanaW | Apr 18 2007, 05:13 PM Post #70 |
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Lady Macca wrote: "yeaah I was so hoping that this gun talk wouldn't lead to or be brought up about that night... thanks." If that is the case, I'm not sure why you saw fit to quote it and not let it just drift away in the sea of posts. Quite frankly, I don't see how you can talk about murder, gun control or crazed gunmen without bringing up MDC or what happened to John. Too many people in this world act like ostrches and stick their heads in the sand to avoide unpleasant subjects rather than face them head on. The only way we can remove threats like this is to face it and demand our lawmakers do something about it...hold their feet to the fire and force them to change policy. Alone, we can do nothing, together we have a voice that can be heard around the world. Alone, we can't fight the big money gun and ammunition market, together we can! |
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If slaughterhouses had glass walls the whole world would be vegetarian. Linda McCartney | |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Apr 18 2007, 06:14 PM Post #71 |
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LOLcat Freak
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I know I'm going to be trashed for saying this, but oh well. Shouldn't someone make a seperate thread about gun control and leave this thread to honoring those who died? Also, we're not going to change each others feelings on gun control. Those who dispise guns will always dispise guns and those who are for guns will always be for guns. Here we go round and round like a spinning record. :rolleyes: |
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| Dorfliedot | Apr 18 2007, 07:07 PM Post #72 |
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No! gun control is part of the problem on what happen to those 33 people who died senseless. Now, there your answer molly. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 18 2007, 08:12 PM Post #73 |
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Anyone is welcome to post a poll, an article or a topic of debate relating to guns as another thread. In fact, it might be a good idea in order to avoid losing sight of the specific tragedy here. But I agree with Dorothy. Arguing to rid the world of what caused all those deaths on Monday can hardly be interpreted as disrespectful. |
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| Dorfliedot | Apr 18 2007, 08:21 PM Post #74 |
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Beatlelicious
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Thank you Fiona. |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Apr 18 2007, 09:55 PM Post #75 |
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LOLcat Freak
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Why can't people understand that getting rid of guns isn't going to solve a darned thing? People WILL get guns no matter what. Enforcing the gun laws and maybe strengthing the ones like Virginia's is the best way. Banning ANYThING isn't going to solve things. What we really should do is concentrate on what made this guy do what he did? We need to put into place better ways of helping people like the gunman get help, and if he seems to be a threat to society to institutionalize them by force so they can get the help. I know that sounds harsh, but if they are going to harm themselves or society they should get help. Also, people shouldn't just poo poo threats like what the gunman did. I heard that some people did report him to the police, but they didn't do anything since he wasn't threatening anyone. Something has to be done to prevent this from happening, and not just saying, "oh let's ban all guns, yada yada yada." |
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 18 2007, 10:02 PM Post #76 |
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Really? If you couldn't be bothered to read Jacaranda's findings, it worked for Canada. And Australia. And England, too. Oh, and Wales. ...I could probably go on. |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Apr 18 2007, 10:15 PM Post #77 |
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Oh yeah banning guns is really helping in Canada? I have heard a lot of stories on Canadian news about people getting killed or hurt because they were SHOT. Unless someone invented a new weapon to shoot people I think the people were killed by GUNS. So if they banned the guns how are people getting guns? This is why I say banning guns isn't going to work. I guess noone wants to discuss the other ways to prevent this from happening like security, getting people better mental health, and ways to help the students get out of a situation like what happened. People would rather talk about gun control. I'm not going to post anything esle until someone mentions something besides gun control. |
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| Rose | Apr 18 2007, 10:17 PM Post #78 |
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Well, here's another clue for you all, the Walrus was Paul...
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![]() "I'm in awe of McCartney. He's about the only one that I am in awe of. He can do it all. And he's never let up... He's just so damn effortless." ~ Bob Dylan | |
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| HGentile | Apr 18 2007, 10:35 PM Post #79 |
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hmmm I am confused. Molly - first you say you want someone to create a seperate thread about gun control because you feel this thread should be about honoring those who died, yet almost every single post of yours in this entire thread is about the gun debate. Secondly, you say your not going to post anymore unless someone else mentions something besides gun control, yet your entire first paragraph of that post is arguing about gun control. If your trying to fuel a fire here, it's only your own fire your fueling. It almost seems as if your p*ssing yourself off lol. Unless I am missing something. |
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| JanaW | Apr 18 2007, 10:38 PM Post #80 |
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I just started a new poll, which will require actual suggestion from all of you on how we should control guns in the United States. You can combine it with this thread if you like or leave it as is. |
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If slaughterhouses had glass walls the whole world would be vegetarian. Linda McCartney | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 18 2007, 11:06 PM Post #81 |
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I'm going to propose leaving it as it is. This obviously is serious debate with many avenues. This thread can probably easily remain on subject of Virginia Tech's victims and since the conversation has already been started here, perhaps if we have responses to particular posts in this thread we can quote them and respond in your new one...? |
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| JanaW | Apr 18 2007, 11:18 PM Post #82 |
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However you see fit to handle it...you're the boss! |
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If slaughterhouses had glass walls the whole world would be vegetarian. Linda McCartney | |
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| Dorfliedot | Apr 18 2007, 11:51 PM Post #83 |
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Exactly!!!!!! I could have agree with you more..
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| mozart8mytoe | Apr 19 2007, 04:01 AM Post #84 |
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I was going to say that. You people in earlier time zones really p*ss me off.
That was actually kind of funny.
Your second paragraph makes sense. Your first paragraph defies what we like to call logic. |
| Nurse, I spy gypsies. Run. | |
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| fab4fan | Apr 19 2007, 04:12 AM Post #85 |
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@ Jana W, Re: objection on calling Cho an assh*le. Bless your kind soul! I envy that you have the wonderful quality of forgiveness for him. I will never achieve your strength. I personally consider him a monster. There are a lot of sick people in this world who don't choose to do what he did. I reject absolving him of the responsibility for his actions. But again I say I admire that quality in you. @ Clare, Re: dissing on the moderators. When I earn a verbal tongue lashing from you I KNOW I was out of line. Apologies to you and to the two love birds that it was directed at. @ Peter, Re: he'd be dead if I was a student and I had a gun. The only thing I would point out to you is I did specify my views were if I hadn't been in the first room he walked into and started firing in. Would have given me time to get over p*ssing myself, wuss that I am. @ Andy, Re: my kneejerk post in response to your original post. I give you Neil Steinberg, columnist from our local liberal rag The Chicago SunTimes. I can only wish to get my points across as eloquently as this man does.
That's all I was trying to convey in my original post. To all who bother to read this I hope you are pleasantly surprised by its tone. This tragedy has really been a tough nut for me to swallow. I guess I sort of lashed out a little. Sorry! And unfortunately I'm going to have to deal on a personal level with another set of parents who are having to deal with what I as a parent view to be the greatest injustice: Having to bury your own child. Munster Marine Dies In Iraq - story link, please take the time to console the family. |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| mozart8mytoe | Apr 19 2007, 04:23 AM Post #86 |
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Yes, Neil Steinberg is more eloquent than you, but I see no harm in discussing gun control when things like this happen. What better time is there? |
| Nurse, I spy gypsies. Run. | |
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| fab4fan | Apr 19 2007, 04:41 AM Post #87 |
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Let's just say there is a time and a place. I feel this isn't the time and with another thread going on the subject I guess this ain't the place. I will follow you over to the other thread at some point and continue. |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Apr 19 2007, 04:47 AM Post #88 |
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I watched the video Cho sent to NBC and it just made me sick to my stomach. That guy just totally went off on rich people and others. It's sad that he didn't get all the help he needed. I heard someone on a local radio show said he was probably schizophrenic. |
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| FamousGroupie | Apr 19 2007, 04:47 AM Post #89 |
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Don't you forget it!! Diplomacy be buggered! :lol: Seriously, John, thankyou for your apology. |
| I don't believe in Bondi. I don't believe in rugby league. I believe in Yoko, John Lennon, the Lost Weekend and me. | |
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| Dorfliedot | Apr 19 2007, 04:57 AM Post #90 |
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gosh, why Am I never quote? what I say, most not be in important. :lol: |
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| Merry | Apr 19 2007, 05:02 AM Post #91 |
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I hadn't been able keep up with the news about the killer on TV like everyone else because I had to work, so I was quite shocked and horrified about this from MSNBC online... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/?GT1=9246 If this doesn't make a great case to implement strict gun control (or total banning), then I really don't know what does! Merry |
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| fab4fan | Apr 19 2007, 05:04 AM Post #92 |
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You'll have to pick on me like the Intimidator does, then I'd quote you. (inside joke) |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| LadyMacca | Apr 19 2007, 07:16 PM Post #93 |
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yeaaah no comment :wacko:
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| -Liz | |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Apr 19 2007, 07:19 PM Post #94 |
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LOLcat Freak
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I never said I wasn't going to comment about the Virginia Tech, I said I wasn't going to comment anymore if the gun control issue was mentioned. Man, Liz, you LOVE picking on me don't ya. :angry: |
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 19 2007, 07:51 PM Post #95 |
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I think it's the other way around. I wrongly quote you and therefore you yell at me.
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| Dorfliedot | Apr 19 2007, 08:04 PM Post #96 |
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A little yelling helps us all. it makes us feel loved...
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| Dorfliedot | Apr 20 2007, 01:28 AM Post #97 |
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Beatlelicious
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http://www.appeal-democrat.com/onset?id=47...te=article.html |
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| maccascruff | Apr 20 2007, 02:54 AM Post #98 |
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Sing the Changes
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It's very sad that this man did not get the help he needed. I'm hearing his family said he had mental problems for years. How did he get this far through college with all that has come out about him? It's even sadder that he was able to buy a gun over the internet and a gun in a gun shop and kill 32 people, none of whom had done anything to him. I feel for this family. I feel for the families of each and every victim in this horrible happening in this country. I hope some good will come from this--in the mental health field and in the area of gun control. |
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| beatlechick | Apr 20 2007, 03:49 AM Post #99 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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With that kind of reasoning and attitude, why make anything illegal? People will just find a way to get whatever it is, right? So why make it illegal? I'll tell you why. There are laws that are there for our protection against our worse judgement. We need to do something about gun control in the United States. The right to bear arms was borne out of the need for a militia. The last time I looked, we have police forces and military. No need for a militia. Ergo, no need for guns. |
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| LadyMacca | Apr 20 2007, 05:49 AM Post #100 |
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Not at all. |
| -Liz | |
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Massacre suspect was 'troubled'


:lol:
yeaaah no comment :wacko:

2:01 PM Jul 11