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2008 U.S. Presidential Election
Topic Started: Feb 22 2007, 05:49 AM (37,441 Views)
beatlechick
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theonlyfab4fan
Jan 21 2008, 08:15 PM
Andy do you know that Wal-Mart was one of the first retail outlets to offer all their employees the chance to purchase shares in the company at reduced prices? When Wal-Mart went public these people became millionaires overnight. The company is run vastly different now that Sam is no longer with us. They still pay a higher than minimum wage to new hires than, K-mart, Target and any of the other discount chains in most cities. They do have employee insurance available to those that work at least 28 hours a week. Also if you have been employed by them and purchase stock after you leave their employment you can still continue to buy stock directly through your account at the same discount without having to pay a fee to keep the account. There is a lot more to this company than meets the eye. Education is the key, but you need to look at more than just what you read written by someone who writes a sensationalized account of all the negatives. Wal-Mart is not any worse than all these other companies. Let me ask you this. Where in this day and time can you go and be guaranteed that you aren`t buying something that was produced in China? I can only speak of what I know to be facts. I got my facts because I did work there. I do still have my stock account. I had medical insurance for my entire family when I was in their employ and Sam Walton and my grandfather were cousins.

I have to dispute some of what you have to say here, Betsy. I know for a fact that WalMart in many many places across the US does not pay minimum wage as well as places like Target, Sears (who owns what is left of Kmart), JC Penney (who pay less than Target does), and Mervyns. Most of those places, if not all, also offer their employees health insurance but at a slightly better rate than Walmart does. I think the only exception is/was JC Penney. The only ones who get paid about the same as Walmart, but they are able to keep their employees better, is Big Lots (the old Pic N Save).

Walmart's strength is to undercut some of their vendors by using some pretty bad tactics to get them to sell their products through Walmart at less than the going rate. One example is Vlasic Pickles. They are under contract to Walmart in selling their large jug of pickles for about $2 or so less than any place else. They have also tried to strong arm movie studios who sell their goods through iTunes by sending back cases of dvd's and limiting the sale of the movies from those studios.

You might find this interesting: the birth of a billion dollar baby

Seems that Sam Walton's ideals have gone askew. On page 13, I find this rather interesting
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“Wal-mart dictates, through its demand for low prices, that its
suppliers outsource their production to foreign nations, further ripping down America’s battered domestic manufacturing and agricultural capability, in a self feeding process (Freeman, 2003).
I have worked for businesses who have outsourced their jobs. I currently work for a company that was bought out by a larger company who lied and told us our jobs would not be outsourced. Guess what? The first of a group of people who's jobs were supposed to be safe just a short 5 mos ago have been told they lose their jobs March 1st while a second group loses their jobs May 1st. Mine is safe for probably the rest of the year but there are no guarantees as of this moment. Oh yeah, the jobs are being relocated to the Phillippines. We were told by one of the suits of our former company it was because the hirees are paid less than we are. I don't actually know if Walmart is demanding outsourcing but I definitely know what it is like to find out that your job is being outsourced and there is not a damned thing you can do about it.

Andy, there are a growing number of cities that will not allow Walmart to build where they want to (mine being one of them, took 10 years before Walmart would concede and build where we told them to) or to be able to build at all. Some of them are poor cities that have a lot of mom and pop stores that would get gobbled up by a future Super Walmart in their area.

Sorry Betsy, we normally agree but on this I can not.
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beatlechick
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fab4fan
Jan 22 2008, 10:41 PM
Constructive dismissal?

Now there's a tutelary policy created by a roomful of politicians that haven't a clue of how much they choke off productivity with there endless need for paperwork. Yeah, some lifelong government worker has a clue on how to decide whether or not the employee is a "goldbrick" in the real world.

WalMart cares whether or not the useless excuse for an employee collects unemployment because they have to pay into the unemployment fund, with the rate increasing with each occurence. I know of no law that penalizes employees who habitually work 90 days, get themselves fired and get a funded 26 week vaca.

John, if you are fired you are not entitled to unemployment benefits unless you can prove that it is the employer's and not the employees fault. When it comes to unemployment benefits being fired is entirely different than being laid off. If you are laid off, the gov't puts the burder of proof on the employer's shoulders to make sure you (the unemployed) don't receive those benefits while being fired puts the burden of proof that you deserve unemployment benefits. The latter is something neither wants as it does go to court. The only person I know that was actually fired, the company we worked for (Warner Elektra Atlantic records) was preparing their defense. They had a damn good one as this person did not do the work she was hired for. I did and I was only a temp while she was a hired employee. I was asked, not coached or coerced, if I would go in front of the judge to tell them what happened. I said I would but luckily it never saw the light of day. The woman had a drinking problem and was given lots of chances to clean her act up but she could not handle her small workload.
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theonlyfab4fan
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Bill
Jan 23 2008, 07:03 AM
theonlyfab4fan
Jan 23 2008, 08:46 AM

I take it then that you have worked for Wal-Mart.  Funny when I did I always got my 40 hours and overtime during holidays.  Wal-Mart defines part time as 28 hours or less and in order to recieve full benefits you have to earn the priveledge to work more hours.  They only cut the hours on those that are dead weight, and they do that in order to force them to leave rather than fire them and then have them collect unemployment.  Seems fair to me.  Why let someone stay on the clock when all they do is stand around and hold up the counters, or sneak in the stock room to nap?

How recently was it that you got 40 hours?

And if you really want to play the "have you worked there" card, should I assume that you have worked 12 hours a day, 30 days a month in a Chinese factory? That argument works both ways. ;)

If an employee deserves to be fired, they should be fired. What does Wal-mart care what happens next? Of course, if they don't deserve to be fired but Wal-mart wants to be rid of them anyway, that's when you would have to pull the trick of making their lives there untenable.

I got my 40 hours a week the entire time I was employed there. 1993-1995 And as for working long days with no day off, once I became salaried and off the clock, I worked 73 days in a row once because my hourly paid assistant never showed up. It was a nightmare of paper work, and councelling sessions to meet all the requirements to be able to fire her with an air tight case. The amount of unemployment you recieve in this country is based on a percentage of your income in relation to how long you held that job. When my husband company was involved in a hostile take over in 1988 he recieved 750 dollars a week, which is more than he gets now on disability.

It is not so easy to fire people in hourly wage jobs in this country. And yes that is part of the problem.
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand
John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' !

I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN

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BeatleBarb
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Hilary was less than 20 miles from where I live yesterdy - how come I'm just now hearing about this! I would have liked to see her.
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beatlechick
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BeatleBarb
Jan 23 2008, 10:03 AM
Hilary was less than 20 miles from where I live yesterdy - how come I'm just now hearing about this!  I would have liked to see her.

Here you go:

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Mia Culpa
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If she's elected will they have all-male interns?
If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead.
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fab4fan
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OOPS!

You know, the truth is she probably doesn't remember taking this photo with this scumbag. But the bottom line is the scumbag paid big bucks to be in the photo ergo, the Clintons took cash from the same slumlord. When is Obama going to take the gloves off and ask Hilary about all the illegal donations the Clintons have received via the Chinese?

Come on Barrack, you're on the cusp of history. Don't let us down, help America "TURN THE PAGE."
Mnisthiti mou Kurie!
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Bill
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Because any jackass can burn down a barn. Drudge would know. ;)
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maccascruff
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John, are you helping us turn the page. I have been working my tail off doing just that. South Carolina rules and now it is on to Super Tuesday for my man Obama. Love that signature line.

As for Wal-Mart, where I used to live, one it came to town the prices were so much lower than everyone elses, the consumers did go there. Most consumers in a town where most live on minimum wage will shop where things are the cheapest. The shopping mall that was doing quite well when Wal-Mart came to town looses two more tenants today. Everyone shops at Wal-Mart. You have to drive 60 miles to shop elsewhere and people just won't do that for the most part. When the Super Wal Mart went in, it went to the edge of town and my dear old dad thinks that is too far to drive (about 3 miles). He does it for everything except groceries because there is no where else to shop.

As for the number of hours employees get, my nephew worked there and left because they were "not a kind employer". He was told his job in the office was full time, but he was never scheduled for full time and never got benefits. He has never elaborated on the not kind employer, so I don't know if that was a young person's idealism or not.
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maccascruff
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While I am at it, Obama is running against Bill and Hillary Clinton. That was pointed out several times at our training at Obama HQ. If you look at tonight's primary in South Carolina, Obama won virtually every county and did win every demographic in South Carolina.

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fab4fan
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A President Like My Father

By CAROLINE KENNEDY
Published: January 27, 2008
OVER the years, I’ve been deeply moved by the people who’ve told me they wished they could feel inspired and hopeful about America the way people did when my father was president. This sense is even more profound today. That is why I am supporting a presidential candidate in the Democratic primaries, Barack Obama.

My reasons are patriotic, political and personal, and the three are intertwined. All my life, people have told me that my father changed their lives, that they got involved in public service or politics because he asked them to. And the generation he inspired has passed that spirit on to its children. I meet young people who were born long after John F. Kennedy was president, yet who ask me how to live out his ideals.

Sometimes it takes a while to recognize that someone has a special ability to get us to believe in ourselves, to tie that belief to our highest ideals and imagine that together we can do great things. In those rare moments, when such a person comes along, we need to put aside our plans and reach for what we know is possible.

We have that kind of opportunity with Senator Obama. It isn’t that the other candidates are not experienced or knowledgeable. But this year, that may not be enough. We need a change in the leadership of this country — just as we did in 1960.

Most of us would prefer to base our voting decision on policy differences. However, the candidates’ goals are similar. They have all laid out detailed plans on everything from strengthening our middle class to investing in early childhood education. So qualities of leadership, character and judgment play a larger role than usual.

Senator Obama has demonstrated these qualities throughout his more than two decades of public service, not just in the United States Senate but in Illinois, where he helped turn around struggling communities, taught constitutional law and was an elected state official for eight years. And Senator Obama is showing the same qualities today. He has built a movement that is changing the face of politics in this country, and he has demonstrated a special gift for inspiring young people — known for a willingness to volunteer, but an aversion to politics — to become engaged in the political process.

I have spent the past five years working in the New York City public schools and have three teenage children of my own. There is a generation coming of age that is hopeful, hard-working, innovative and imaginative. But too many of them are also hopeless, defeated and disengaged. As parents, we have a responsibility to help our children to believe in themselves and in their power to shape their future. Senator Obama is inspiring my children, my parents’ grandchildren, with that sense of possibility.

Senator Obama is running a dignified and honest campaign. He has spoken eloquently about the role of faith in his life, and opened a window into his character in two compelling books. And when it comes to judgment, Barack Obama made the right call on the most important issue of our time by opposing the war in Iraq from the beginning.

I want a president who understands that his responsibility is to articulate a vision and encourage others to achieve it; who holds himself, and those around him, to the highest ethical standards; who appeals to the hopes of those who still believe in the American Dream, and those around the world who still believe in the American ideal; and who can lift our spirits, and make us believe again that our country needs every one of us to get involved.

I have never had a president who inspired me the way people tell me that my father inspired them. But for the first time, I believe I have found the man who could be that president — not just for me, but for a new generation of Americans.

Mnisthiti mou Kurie!
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Bill
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Bill
Jan 26 2008, 12:31 AM
Because any jackass can burn down a barn. Drudge would know. ;)

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have been so flip with that comment.

In all seriousness, I think it would be a bad idea for Obama to try dishing the dirt on Hillary. The big attraction of Obama is his positive message. People are sick of candidates trying to smack down all their opponents. They want someone to tell them why they're right for the job, not why the other lot are wrong.

No matter what they say, Hillary is the establishment candidate on the Democratic side. And if this is where America is after Hillary has (apparently) spent 35 years fighting for change, then it's time to change the agent of change. But if Obama went on the attack, it would amuse some Republicans for five minutes but it wouldn't not win him a single vote because it would mean he was playing the old game rather than trying to change the game. It would make him just another one of them.

That's what I think, anyway. :)
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theonlyfab4fan
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
I agree Bill.
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand
John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' !

I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN

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beatlechick
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maccascruff
Jan 26 2008, 07:58 PM
John, are you helping us turn the page. I have been working my tail off doing just that. South Carolina rules and now it is on to Super Tuesday for my man Obama. Love that signature line.

As for Wal-Mart, where I used to live, one it came to town the prices were so much lower than everyone elses, the consumers did go there. Most consumers in a town where most live on minimum wage will shop where things are the cheapest. The shopping mall that was doing quite well when Wal-Mart came to town looses two more tenants today. Everyone shops at Wal-Mart. You have to drive 60 miles to shop elsewhere and people just won't do that for the most part. When the Super Wal Mart went in, it went to the edge of town and my dear old dad thinks that is too far to drive (about 3 miles). He does it for everything except groceries because there is no where else to shop.

As for the number of hours employees get, my nephew worked there and left because they were "not a kind employer". He was told his job in the office was full time, but he was never scheduled for full time and never got benefits. He has never elaborated on the not kind employer, so I don't know if that was a young person's idealism or not.

You go, girl!

As for WalMart, they tend to have a pretty high turnover rate. I have known people who liked working there but more that didn't. I don't really think it is young people's idealism as I do know some who worked/s at Target, Mervyns, and Penneys. The only one that didn't get good marks was Penneys.
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beatlechick
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Bill
Jan 26 2008, 11:42 PM
Bill
Jan 26 2008, 12:31 AM
Because any jackass can burn down a barn. Drudge would know.  ;)

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have been so flip with that comment.

In all seriousness, I think it would be a bad idea for Obama to try dishing the dirt on Hillary. The big attraction of Obama is his positive message. People are sick of candidates trying to smack down all their opponents. They want someone to tell them why they're right for the job, not why the other lot are wrong.

No matter what they say, Hillary is the establishment candidate on the Democratic side. And if this is where America is after Hillary has (apparently) spent 35 years fighting for change, then it's time to change the agent of change. But if Obama went on the attack, it would amuse some Republicans for five minutes but it wouldn't not win him a single vote because it would mean he was playing the old game rather than trying to change the game. It would make him just another one of them.

That's what I think, anyway. :)

Bill I do agree. Unfortunately the race card has been played and tempers flared. Hopefully Bill Clinton will back down the rhetoric that I believe he started. It seems that Bill feels that he is on the ticket and running for office. He needs to realize that he is not a candidate, only the husband of one.
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Nick2006
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I like this Obama guy, all the Republican candindates seem to be too doped up on religion to change things i mean a f*ckin mormon running the world??? come on and as for Hilary don't get me started on her.


i really hope Obama gets through this would be nice to see a guy who represents the people for a change and not just a party
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maccascruff
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We were told to read Caroline's speech on caucus night. Now Barack is coming here on Wednesday. I hope he comes in the evening so I can go.
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Bill
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Nick2006
Jan 28 2008, 03:51 AM
i mean a f*ckin mormon running the world???

No. Only America. There's still a difference. ;)
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Bill
Jan 27 2008, 10:13 PM
Nick2006
Jan 28 2008, 03:51 AM
i mean a f*ckin mormon running the world???

No. Only America. There's still a difference. ;)

Only North America -_-
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Bill
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The United States, thereof.
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Nick2006
Jan 27 2008, 10:51 AM
... all the Republican candindates seem to be too doped up on religion to change things i mean a f*ckin mormon running the world???


Excuse me? I'm not even a Mormon, but this was outta line. <_<
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One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08
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Bill
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Agreed!
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fab4fan
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maccascruff
Jan 26 2008, 08:58 PM
John, are you helping us turn the page.

Feb 4 I'll be working a phone bank in Chicago for Super Tuesday.

The primary in Indiana isn't until May 6th. Maybe my state will be the one to seal the deal. Hope we get a chance, things could be over by then.
Mnisthiti mou Kurie!
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beatlechick
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Jan 27 2008, 10:31 PM
Nick2006
Jan 27 2008, 10:51 AM
... all the Republican candindates seem to be too doped up on religion to change things i mean a f*ckin mormon running the world???


Excuse me? I'm not even a Mormon, but this was outta line. <_<

Certainly is.
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couldn't be worst then a born again recovering alcoholic christian. besides maybe there could be two first ladies.

btw what would Bill be if Hillary won?
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Bag O' Nails
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He'd still be an ass.... :P :devil: :whistle:
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One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08
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beatlechick
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tonyhemp
Jan 27 2008, 10:56 PM
couldn't be worst then a born again recovering alcoholic christian. besides maybe there could be two first ladies.

btw what would Bill be if Hillary won?

First ex-impeached (not that it mattered because he still kicks GW's ass) President Dude!
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Jan 28 2008, 01:58 AM
He'd still be an ass.... :P :devil: :whistle:

True Bill is an ass, but Bush is what comes out of one. :P
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Bill
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Ironically enough, the Mormon has only ever had one wife. The same cannot be said for Giuliani or McCain, although it can be said about Bill Clinton.
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Bill
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Slightly dated but still interesting....

It ain't the states you carry, it's the delegates:

http://www.slate.com/id/2182565/
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Bill
Jan 27 2008, 11:07 PM
Ironically enough, the Mormon has only ever had one wife. The same cannot be said for Giuliani or McCain, although it can be said about Bill Clinton.

Most Mormons are not polygamists...although many of the old school ones certainly were guilty of that!

I get your point though. ;) And it's a good one. ^_^

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Nick2006
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Bill
Jan 28 2008, 04:20 AM
The United States, thereof.

you know what i mean, they seem to control the world anyway they might aswell run it

btw this is not meaning to offend, im just pointing out a fact that this affects us all
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Bill
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It does effect us all but I for one am not prepared to devolve the running of my country to Washington and neither, thankfully, is my government.

"Leader of the free world" my rectum!
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maccascruff
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I'm hoping to rearrange my work schedule to see Obama on Wednesday.

Thanks for helping, John. We've got a big job and I've spent a lot of time on it.

Now that I start working some evenings, I don't have as much time to devote to the cause.
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fab4fan
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Bill
Jan 28 2008, 07:21 AM
"Leader of the free world" my rectum!

Quite the buzz you've still got going from Aussie Day! :lol:
Mnisthiti mou Kurie!
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Nick2006
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Bill
Jan 28 2008, 01:21 PM
It does effect us all but I for one am not prepared to devolve the running of my country to Washington and neither, thankfully, is my government.

"Leader of the free world" my rectum!

I wish i could say the same about us in the UK

any room in Australia for me??
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modgirl1964
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Ok, I'm out of my hole of papers for a little bit and what do I see in John's sig..... :o :o

Have you joined the dark side of us heathen liberals my friend? I brainwashed you, didn't I?! :lol:

I'll expect a comment back about how I'm a smart ass, yadda yadda... nothing new. LOL!!
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BeatleBarb
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No chance for Kucinich so.....this mama is for Obama!
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modgirl1964
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I'm still holding out hope for Edwards. Only one I hear who has the sense to speak for the plain old avrage working American. I think his campagin slogan should be, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" since he's got most of his supporters p*ssed about the way things have been going on.

Hell, I think we should all yell that.
Bridget

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maccascruff
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Obama is the man for me! Going to see him Wednesday morning. Boss is not happy that he hired a Democrat! :P
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beatlechick
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Bill
Jan 28 2008, 06:21 AM
It does effect us all but I for one am not prepared to devolve the running of my country to Washington and neither, thankfully, is my government.

"Leader of the free world" my rectum!

Me, neither and I live in the US. :giggle:

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BeatleBarb Posted on Jan 28 2008, 05:52 PM
  No chance for Kucinich so.....this mama is for Obama! 


:yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:


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maccascruff Posted on Jan 28 2008, 07:00 PM
  Obama is the man for me! Going to see him Wednesday morning. Boss is not happy that he hired a Democrat! 


Good for you. Depending on how I feel when I get off work on Wednesday, I may join the protestors outside of the Reagan Library, I have to pass it everyday anyway!
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maccascruff
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I am going early for a good seat to see the next president of the United States.

Hillary's people just called and I told them a thing or two. :P
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beatlechick
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Or 3, like why is Bill running? I thought Hillary was the one running for President!
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maccascruff
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Cathy, that is the most disgusting part of this whole campaign. Obama is running against Bill and Hillary and I hate that. Bill had his turn at being president. I don't like the idea of him having influence if Hillary wins. He's been the one pulling out the race card and I detest that.
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Bill
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Bill is obviously an asset to Hillary's campaign and they would be foolish not to use him, but this has definitely gone too far. It really is beginning to look like Hillary's platform is Bill and that's no more dignified than all the Republicans trying to resurrect Reagan.
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maccascruff
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I don't think Bill is an asset at the moment--unless they change their tactics. Heard a Republican pundit say the same thing yesterday. He also said he wants the Republicans to run against Hillary because he thinks they can easily beat her but doesn't feel the same way about Obama.
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beatlechick
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maccascruff Posted on Jan 28 2008, 07:17 PM
  Cathy, that is the most disgusting part of this whole campaign. Obama is running against Bill and Hillary and I hate that. Bill had his turn at being president. I don't like the idea of him having influence if Hillary wins. He's been the one pulling out the race card and I detest that.





Me, too. I hate saying this because I thought he was a pretty good President but I just wish like hell he would step down and allow Hillary to lose or win this on her own. If she has the merits and has what it takes to become a President, than let her sell herself to the American public. I heard on This Week where George Stephanopoulos, Clinton's ex White House spokesperson, asking if Bill thinks he is running or is running to be on the ticket.
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Mia Culpa
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At least you know everything about her spouse. What do the people know about the other candidates' spouses?

And America doesn't control my country. We have America wrapped around our finger.
If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead.
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beatlechick
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What country is that?

Sometimes not knowing what someone is like is much better than knowing.
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Bill
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maccascruff
Jan 29 2008, 12:25 PM
I don't think Bill is an asset at the moment--unless they change their tactics. Heard a Republican pundit say the same thing yesterday. He also said he wants the Republicans to run against Hillary because he thinks they can easily beat her but doesn't feel the same way about Obama.

Good point. I probably should have said he was an asset before they overexposed him. (make your own joke)
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modgirl1964
Jan 28 2008, 05:57 PM
I'm still holding out hope for Edwards. Only one I hear who has the sense to speak for the plain old avrage working American. I think his campagin slogan should be, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" since he's got most of his supporters p*ssed about the way things have been going on.

Hell, I think we should all yell that.

I've always liked John Edwards, even when he ran back in 2004. Granted, I was only 14 at the time, but I knew enough to know that here was somebody I could get behind. I know much more now, and I'm stil behind him. That's exactly what I like about him too, his "fight the b*stards" attitude, because I too am mad as hell and, and I'm not going to take it anymore. Unfortunately, I'm not holding out much hope for him at this point, but I can definitely get behind Barack Obama too though, no doubt about it You're absolutely right though, I think we all have not just a right but a duty to be outraged.
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Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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maccascruff
Jan 29 2008, 02:25 AM
I don't think Bill is an asset at the moment--unless they change their tactics. Heard a Republican pundit say the same thing yesterday. He also said he wants the Republicans to run against Hillary because he thinks they can easily beat her but doesn't feel the same way about Obama.

I agree with you Linda. The Democrats need to send Bill home for a while. I have supported Hillary and I think the country was on a good road when her husband was president but we can't confuse one with the other and we can only have or should only have one president - not two. We have term limits for a reason.
I hope Hillary can get back on track - if not I may have to support Obama - either way it will be a Democrat.
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maccascruff
Jan 28 2008, 08:17 PM
Cathy, that is the most disgusting part of this whole campaign.  Obama is running against Bill and Hillary and I hate that.  Bill had his turn at being president.  I don't like the idea of him having influence if Hillary wins.  He's been the one pulling out the race card and I detest that.

Linda, bully for you to put the partisan B.S. on the backburner and call it like it is!

Dare I say, THE post of the day!
Mnisthiti mou Kurie!
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John,
I'm so hurt.
You've gone over to the "other" side.
I'm all alone...
It's so dark and cold....
:P :P :P
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
Bag O' Nails
Jan 29 2008, 07:40 AM
John,
I'm so hurt.
You've gone over to the "other" side.
I'm all alone...
It's so dark and cold....
:P :P :P

When you get your Jaynes world T-Shirt, that should make you feel all warm and fuzzy again. :D
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand
John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' !

I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN

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theonlyfab4fan
Jan 29 2008, 12:46 AM
Bag O' Nails
Jan 29 2008, 07:40 AM
John,
I'm so hurt.
You've gone over to the "other" side.
I'm all alone...
It's so dark and cold....
:P  :P  :P

When you get your Jaynes world T-Shirt, that should make you feel all warm and fuzzy again. :D

:boogie: :D
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theonlyfab4fan
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
I cannot wait to meet you Heidi!
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand
John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' !

I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN

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maccascruff
Sing the Changes
fab4fan
Jan 28 2008, 09:23 PM
maccascruff
Jan 28 2008, 08:17 PM
Cathy, that is the most disgusting part of this whole campaign.  Obama is running against Bill and Hillary and I hate that.  Bill had his turn at being president.  I don't like the idea of him having influence if Hillary wins.  He's been the one pulling out the race card and I detest that.

Linda, bully for you to put the partisan B.S. on the backburner and call it like it is!

Dare I say, THE post of the day!

Thank you, John. How do I get that to Obama tomorrow so I can meet him? ;)
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maccascruff
Sing the Changes
Just got a call from the Obama campaign. There is a special meeting for precinct captains only tomorrow after the event--with a special guest! Now who do you suppose that will be! I am getting so excited about this. No longer going to cut out before it's over to get back to work.

I hope to meet the next president of the United States tomorrow! :yahoo: :clap:
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OOH Linda, that would be fantastic! I hope it works out for you.
What a long, strange trip it's been....
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Good for you Linda. I hope the special guest is Senator Obama. Next Tuesday I will be voting for him. Not sure who Bert will be voting for. He said Democrats usually raise the taxes. Maybe you'll be able to get his autograph too. I bet the Clinton's feel like they've been knocked off the shelf with the some of the Kennedy's endorsing him. I especially like it that Caroline is a supporter of Senator Obama.

PEACE and love to my friends, Judy

When the Power of Love over comes the Love of Power, the world will know Peace.
-Sri Chinmnoy Ghose

Till me meet again ~ I Love you Mike! You were one of a kind.
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My biggest concern at the moment is that what looked like a for sure Democrat win in November will be blown away by all this cr*p going on right now between Obama and Clinton.
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In Paul's Arms!
maccascruff
Jan 29 2008, 10:01 AM
Just got a call from the Obama campaign. There is a special meeting for precinct captains only tomorrow after the event--with a special guest! Now who do you suppose that will be! I am getting so excited about this. No longer going to cut out before it's over to get back to work.

I hope to meet the next president of the United States tomorrow! :yahoo: :clap:

I HOPE SO, TOO!! :hyper: :clap: :hyper:
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maccascruff
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Just received an email from the campaign. The captains are to arrive earlier than the general public as we get to sit in the VIP area. I wonder if that is behind Obama? They always show those people behind him with signs at these rallies. You can't take any signs in so they must be supplying them. I have to be there by 8 AM. :hmm:

Rally itself isn't expected to start until about 10 AM. Don't know how long these things last. We were told to make lots of noise. After rally, the captains have the meeting with the special guest, with lunch provided. That is to last an hour.

I sure hope that I get to meet the next president of the United States.

I still think whoever gets the nomination for the Democrats, we can beat the Republicans. McCain is a war monger in my opinion and he scares me as much as Dubya has. I don't understand his support.

I am so excited. :hyper: :yahoo:
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BeatleBarb
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Good for you, Linda!! What a great experience for you....enjoy!
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Bill
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My views on Hillary are well known but can someone explain to me exactly how the Clinton campaign have pulled out the race card? Maybe I'm naive or missing the coded messages but I don't see it.


I thought of something else last night. Remember how Rudy started his campaign saying that he would be the one to take the fight up to al Qaeda? It turned out he didn't have the ticker to even take the fight up to New Hampshire. :lol:
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maccascruff
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Here is what I see as the race card, Bill.

Here's one article that attempts to explain what Bill Clinton did in South Carolina.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/poli...996_race24.html

A bigger complaint from me is that after Hillary lost in South Carolina, Bill made the comment that Jesse Jackson had won South Carolina primaries twice, but never become president. He failed to mention that John Edwards also has the distinction of winning South Carolina and never becoming president.
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theonlyfab4fan
Jan 29 2008, 12:51 AM
I cannot wait to meet you Heidi!

The same here!! :wub: B)
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Bill
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And that's racist because Jesse Jackson is black and John Edwards is white? I think that's an eye-of-the-beholder thing. If people are constantly on the lookout for coded racism, then they're going to find it one way or another.

Obviously Clinton and Obama are opposing each other at the moment and while the Clinton campaign is currently dirtier than the Obama campaign, it's not automatically racist for someone to oppose Obama and more than it's sexist for someone to oppose Clinton. There are two ways to play the race card. The Obama campaign should stay focussed on the issues and continue to let the other bullsh*t and perceived bullsh*t wash over them.
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fab4fan
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Bill,
When assessing the black community in Chicago I always read Ms. Mitchell and listen to black talk radio in Chicago. The Clintons are in a world of hurt come November if they are counting on 94 - 98% of the black turnout. That is, if they are still around in November. Like you said, it is in the eye of the beholder.

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Clintons' effort to pin loss on race is shameful
Jesse Jackson's '80s victories are hardly fair S.C. analogy

January 29, 2008
BY MARY MITCHELL Sun-Times Columnist
To their shame, the Hillary Clinton camp is trying to spin their loss in South Carolina as inevitable because of South Carolina's large black population.

After Hillary's trouncing, her husband, Bill Clinton, downplayed Obama's win, telling reporters that Jesse Jackson won South Carolina in 1984 and 1988.

I don't want to take anything away from Jackson, but he was a South Carolina native and had incredible name recognition in the civil rights arena. Moreover, what he won were caucuses, not primaries.

But in linking Obama's landslide to Jackson's victory 20 years ago, Clinton is attempting to put Obama in a race box, something Obama has resisted to the point of frustrating some black leaders and activists who can't find a seat on the Obama bandwagon.

More important, the black vote, which has always been pivotal in the Democratic party, is now being dismissed by the very same people who depended heavily on it to win the White House. Despite what she says now, Clinton spent money and energy courting the black vote in South Carolina.

She was first to pull into her campaign influential pastors of mega churches. She probably was as shocked as anyone that the reverends' support didn't translate into votes.

Frankly, that's an encouraging outcome.

Pollsters have egg on their faces
Clinton's loss exposes a new maturity among black voters. Younger African Americans, particularly, are tired of old school politicians and reverends selling their votes to the highest bidder.

And the media was once again duped.

Early on we bought the story line that there would be a big battle for the black vote in South Carolina. Pollsters gave Clinton a much larger slice of the African-American vote than materialized and incorrectly predicted that Obama would only get 10 percent of the white turnout.

Instead, Obama beat Hillary by a landslide, racking up 78 percent of the black vote and 24 percent of the white vote. Bill Clinton's unwise attacks may have turned off some black voters, but the so-called fight for the black vote never happened.

On Monday, with the endorsement of Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.) and Caroline Kennedy, as well as a letter from acclaimed writer Toni Morrison, Obama's campaign took on the aura of a movement.

Aldon Morris, dean of the Weinberg School of Arts and Sciences at Northwestern University and the author of several books about the civil rights movement, said despite ''political incorrectness,'' race and gender are major factors in the Democratic primary.

'Relatively new phenomenon'
''One of the most interesting things is, Where is the old guard?'' asked Morris. ''Where is Jesse? Where is Sharpton? What I've seen written is pretty much blaming them and pretty much portraying them as egotistical and envious people whose time has passed, but it's more complex.

''Obama recognizes that if he were to send real strong signals to them that it will be played as Obama being the same old politician and bringing in race baiters. That has sort of left the traditional civil rights leadership in a quandary. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.''

Last Saturday, Jackson, who is from Greenville, S.C., was catching a flight to India to deliver the keynote address for a celebration honoring Gandhi. Sharpton is still claiming to be neutral.

Given the matchup, Obama's big win in South Carolina was no small victory, Morris points out.

''We should never downplay the complexity of women having to make a choice not to go with a woman or an African American not going with an African American,'' Morris said. ''This is a relatively new phenomenon. People will make up their minds with race and gender being a part of it. That doesn't mean it is the whole thing, but part of a decision-making process. It is a very difficult choice that people are having to make at this moment in history,'' he said.

''We have this social laboratory where there is a black man versus a white woman for the presidency with each of them having a real possibility of being the party's nominee,'' Morris added. ''Instead of denying it, we should appreciate the complexity of how race and gender is playing out.''

Mnisthiti mou Kurie!
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Bill
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Interesting. I guess I am naive. :blush:

I have to say, I found one line very condescending: "Clinton's loss exposes a new maturity among black voters."

Mind you, the following sentence: "Younger African Americans, particularly, are tired of old school politicians and reverends selling their votes to the highest bidder," applies equally to white Christian evangelicals and that's a good thing.

Pardon the tangent, but you would think that Huckabee would be a shoe-in for the Christian right endorsement, yet Pat Robertson came out and endorsed Giuliani. That on its own proves that Robertson is in it for the politics and not the faith, but the other thing we have seen is that it didn't help Giuliani one bit. That shows that either Robertson has a lot less followers than he thinks, or that they can think for themselves too.

It's really incredibly encouraging to see all sides thinking for themselves and not voting in predictable blocks. This is going to be a great election. :)
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maccascruff
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Supposedly Guiliani will announce that he is dropping out today.

I found out that I will be sitting on the stage today while Obama speaks. Caroline Kennedy is to introduce him.
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Bill
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It's being reported that Edwards will announce his withdrawal today.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22913001/
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maccascruff
Jan 30 2008, 06:24 AM
......I found out that I will be sitting on the stage today while Obama speaks. Caroline Kennedy is to introduce him.........

Double awesome!

And just for the record - the piece of sh*t human being that is "Das Schwimmer," the one who was drunk and got away with killing someone because he was rich & famous, his endorsement means nothing to me.

Caroline is a different story!

Hope you get pics.
Mnisthiti mou Kurie!
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temptresss
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The presidential race heats up:

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and i thought John Edwards was that guy that can connect with people that have passed on. (ignorance is bliss!)
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fab4fan
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I think I recognize someone in the background.

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(Linda here is the link: http://www.9news.com/ )
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theonlyfab4fan
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
So do I!! Looks Like Linda had a great view :D
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand
John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' !

I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN

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LadyMacca
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-Imagine-
So with Edwards and Rudy gone, that leaves.. who?

Bama, clinton.. and?
-Liz
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retrollama
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fab4fan
Jan 30 2008, 06:30 PM
I think I recognize someone in the background.

Yay Linda!!!

I can't believe how close she was. B)
What a long, strange trip it's been....
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fab4fan
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LadyMacca
Jan 30 2008, 05:36 PM
So with Edwards and Rudy gone, that leaves.. who?

Bama, clinton.. and?

...Romney & McCain.
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LadyMacca
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-Imagine-
fab4fan
Jan 30 2008, 06:40 PM
LadyMacca
Jan 30 2008, 05:36 PM
So with Edwards and Rudy gone, that leaves.. who?

Bama, clinton.. and?

...Romney & McCain.

Eh.. I guess I better start paying abit more attention.

I'm totally clueless as to whom I should vote for. Not much time left!! :blink:
-Liz
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fab4fan
Jan 30 2008, 04:40 PM
LadyMacca
Jan 30 2008, 05:36 PM
So with Edwards and Rudy gone, that leaves.. who?

Bama, clinton.. and?

...Romney & McCain.

So John, I'm curious....being a conservative, what made you switch-hit over to Obama vs either Romney or McCain?

Personally I think Romney would have the best chance running against either Obama or Hillary; so my vote is for him. I'm not a big McCain fan.
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Bill
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I think being a swinging voter is the only sensible way to go. If you vote the same way every time, that's just one more vote they don't have to work for. I've voted Labor, I've voted Liberal, I've voted Green and I've even voted Democrat back before they imploded. Natasha Stott-Despoja was the disappointment of the decade, and don't even get me started on Meg Lees.... but I digress....

Not speaking for John in any way, but if you're a conservative and you realise that the Republican party no longer stands for the conservative values it once stood for, then you're left with a choice of either accepting that your party has been hijacked by big-government, big-spending, right wing idealogues, or finding a better option. No-one is married to a party. The smart way to vote is to support the candidate who best reflects your values.

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tagandolfo
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ya Linda....How exciting for you!

I think with Edwards out and not endorsing either candidate some of his supporters could actually leave the Democrats and vote for McCain - if he should be the nominee.

But we still have a ways to go.
This election will be the most interesting one in years.
But either way, whoever wins, it looks like the fact that we could have either a woman or Black person running for President will make it truly historical.
It would be nice though if when considering either Obama or Clinton we could remove the race/gender/husband issue and focus on what each candidate has to say and what they believe. That would be in a perfect world I guess!
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maccascruff
Jan 30 2008, 02:39 AM

I still think whoever gets the nomination for the Democrats, we can beat the Republicans. McCain is a war monger in my opinion and he scares me as much as Dubya has. I don't understand his support.


I'm with you there Linda!
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fab4fan
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At the same link where I got the photos of Linda at the Obama rally there is a link to watch the video of his speech. Linda is in the shot almost the entire time. She had a camera with her so would should see some great shots. More people were in that auditorium than voted in the democratic caucus in Colorado in 2004.

It looks like she might have thrown her back out standing to applaud when Obama mentioned that George W Bush wasn't going to be on the ballot in November. :P As for me the best part of the speech was when he said parents need to shut off the television sets and start reading with their kids!

Heidi, I'll give you a proper response soon to your question. Maybe after Super Tuesday.
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tagandolfo
Jan 30 2008, 07:45 PM
maccascruff
Jan 30 2008, 02:39 AM

I still think whoever gets the nomination for the Democrats, we can beat the Republicans.  McCain is a war monger in my opinion and he scares me as much as Dubya has.  I don't understand his support.


I'm with you there Linda!

I personally don't care for McCain...but I have to respectfully disagree because I think that if Romney gets the nomination, he has a decent chance of beating either Democratic nominee. ;)

And it was cool to see you in the background, Linda!! :D You're "walking your talk" and that's admirable!
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fab4fan
Jan 30 2008, 11:29 PM



Heidi, I'll give you a proper response soon to your question. Maybe after Super Tuesday.

Looking forward to it, John! ;)

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Bill
Jan 30 2008, 07:35 PM
I think being a swinging voter is the only sensible way to go. If you vote the same way every time, that's just one more vote they don't have to work for. I've voted Labor, I've voted Liberal, I've voted Green and I've even voted Democrat back before they imploded. Natasha Stott-Despoja was the disappointment of the decade, and don't even get me started on Meg Lees.... but I digress....

Not speaking for John in any way, but if you're a conservative and you realise that the Republican party no longer stands for the conservative values it once stood for, then you're left with a choice of either accepting that your party has been hijacked by big-government, big-spending, right wing idealogues, or finding a better option. No-one is married to a party. The smart way to vote is to support the candidate who best reflects your values.

I like to think that I listen carefully to the candidates of all parties. There are things I like about Obama, but in all reality, for me, it comes down to some very basic issues that the Demos and Repubs generally differ in. So even though I may agree with some of the things that the Demos may say (like the comment John told us Obama made about parents shutting off the TV and start reading to their kids), I just can't vote for someone with whom I strongly disagree with on some other very pertinent issues.

This is one reason I was not a Guiliani fan (even though that weird quiz said I was closest to him :huh: ).

Something that has surprised me is that whenever I have listened to Ron Paul, he is a breath of fresh air (yes, Barb! :wub: :P )! He is a constitutionalist, and I like him; but he doesn't have a chance whatsoever against McCain and Romney...too bad!

It is sad to me that the Republican party has migrated away from it's strong conservative values; I've not been happy with all the policies during the Bush administration. I wasn't happy with all the things Clinton did, either.

When it comes down to it, the short answer is I agree with you that you have to vote for the person who best reflects your values; but personally speaking, I've never found anyone in the Demo party that matches mine. So that's why generally speaking, I will vote Repub, although they are far from perfect, too!
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LadyMacca
Jan 31 2008, 01:36 AM
So with Edwards and Rudy gone, that leaves.. who?

Bama, clinton.. and?

Clinton
Gravel
Huckabee
McCain
Obama
Paul
Romney
independents
candidates of other political parties
If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead.
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maccascruff
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Good thing I didn't call in sick, right John! My back is fine. I haven't slept in two days, but I did go to work after the rally and I'm going there shortly.

This was the most incredible thing I have ever done in my entire life as will be Super Tuesday. When I sat down, I said this is better than an effing Paul concert. I told that to my Paul friend who was also there and he said definitely. We are changing the world today and next week and again in November.

I came home to all kinds of telephone messages because I was on the national news.

I also got out of standing in the cold for hours by getting there early and getting that seat.

I also have my speech for the caucus. Denver's former mayor Pena gave me his to use when I told him I wasn't much of a speaker during all of the time we had to kill. He was in front of me and we chatted quite a bit.

My friend wrote an incredible email about the day and I will post it tonight.

I have to get some breakfast and get ready for work.

Most incredible day of my life--and I did three tax returns, too!
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Jacaranda
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Linda what about the lunch and the special guest? I am still in suspense. :D

Wonderful Linda that you were there and so close!
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BeatleBarb
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Linda - now I'm worried about you! Did you say this is better than a Paul concert??????????? Let's get this straight, girl!
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pood for paul

I think I saw you on MSNBC at Obama's Denver rally.
Did you have on a red top?

I know you said you would be on stage with him-you were right behind him, weren't you?
:)
"Hey Jude, don't make it bad...
Take a sad song, and make it better..."
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bluemeanie
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is now a happily married woman x
Pood - if you go in the USA election thread you will see Linda just behind Barrack ;)
Jayne x

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is loving life and is so happy xxx
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MaccaMomma
Yeah, like Jayne said....here's the thread:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Strawberry_Fiel...?showtopic=4101
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pood for paul

Oops-sorry, I didn't see that thread....... :blush:

Thank you both. :)
"Hey Jude, don't make it bad...
Take a sad song, and make it better..."
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bluemeanie
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is now a happily married woman x
no probs ;)
Jayne x

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is loving life and is so happy xxx
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Well I say lets keep this thread going....

Here's to Linda!
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is now a happily married woman x
I won't go into these elections that are going on at the mo (as others will back me up on this) but just wanted to say seen Linda loads of times on this video - right next to Barack :)

news video - can you spot Linda
Jayne x

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is loving life and is so happy xxx
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