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| 2008 U.S. Presidential Election | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 22 2007, 05:49 AM (37,442 Views) | |
| BeatleBarb | Jan 9 2008, 05:07 PM Post #401 |
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Good for you, Linda - that is really cool and something I would like to do some day. |
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| Penina | Jan 9 2008, 06:31 PM Post #402 |
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I hate to say it, but Hilary's negative attack on Obama seems to have worked, somewhat - according to the flip-flop dynamics of the pre-polling. I really wish (some) people would think for theirselves, instead of allowing (any) candidate's 'child-psychology' manipulations to steer them. |
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| DCBeatle64 | Jan 9 2008, 08:50 PM Post #403 |
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Wings nutter
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I dont know, To an extent Hilary did have a point, I like what Obama is saying and from what I can tell he looks promising but is he really being realistic, Many a time in the past whatever country you come from there are these promises, often broken promises However I'm generally keeping quiet on this one as my political knowledge on the USA is very much lacking,something which I am learning about as this election gets closer
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I'm a BIGGER Beatles fan than you and I'm an even BIGGER Wings fan than that... 'You're a Paul McCartney fan? No you're a Wings fan'. 'Thankyou Scotland' Ho Hey Ho... ![]() I am the buttplug goo goo goo joob | |
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| beatlechick | Jan 10 2008, 02:22 AM Post #404 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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That's alright Dani, a lot of Americans don't have the knowledge on the political system here.
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| fab4fan | Jan 10 2008, 04:46 AM Post #405 |
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Caretaker
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Ain't that the truth!
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| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| maccascruff | Jan 10 2008, 02:13 PM Post #406 |
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Sing the Changes
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Going to the grand opening of the Obama HQ here tonight and will officially be a precinct captain after that. Going to captain training next Tuesday. This is going to be fun. Working for the IRS, I was never allowed to participate except to vote. Now I feel strongly that this country needs change and I have found my candidate. |
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| BeatleBarb | Jan 10 2008, 04:10 PM Post #407 |
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I didn't know of your restrictions working for the IRS, Linda. Interesting. |
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| scottycatt | Jan 10 2008, 10:38 PM Post #408 |
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Well, the sh*t has now hit Ron Paul's fan. Lovely Rita, what do you think???
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Why? | |
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| Deleted User | Jan 10 2008, 11:49 PM Post #409 |
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I love the fact that John Kerry snubs Edwards and endorses Barack Obama. :lol: |
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| maccascruff | Jan 12 2008, 06:20 PM Post #410 |
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Sing the Changes
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It is called the Hatch Act and Rick is still under it. You cannot participate in political events. You can attend and watch, but not participate--not even a bumper sticker or a contribution. Can do anything within the law now and I am. |
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| Deleted User | Jan 12 2008, 07:06 PM Post #411 |
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Yes, I lost count of how many Americans strap on a bomb go to the market and blow themselves up killing and/or injuring hundreds of others. We could use a little divine peace & love, sure. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Jan 12 2008, 07:51 PM Post #412 |
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I think the amount of homicides, school massacres, racially-motivated beatings and other violent, shocking crimes in America are example enough of the country needing a little peace and love. I also highly object to what you're implying and want to know your motive for talking about suicide bombers in this context. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Jacaranda | Jan 12 2008, 08:06 PM Post #413 |
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Yes Dan, just what are you implying when you reply to Adilah in that fashion? |
![]() "If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through." General Melchett, Blackadder Goes Forth | |
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| Deleted User | Jan 12 2008, 11:15 PM Post #414 |
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That other countries that could use a little pecae and love more than USA, that's all. Wasn't being smart just commenting, I agree that there are bad people here, but the country in general is a country that stands for peace, love, and freedom, and we are not afraid to fight for it. Why do you think soooo many people from other countries come here (legally or illegally) |
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| Deleted User | Jan 12 2008, 11:32 PM Post #415 |
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I think the amount of honnor killings, suicude bombers, ethnic cleansing, killing of homosexuals, unmarried pregnant women in many middle eastern countries are example enough of the countries needing a little peace and love aswell. I object to any crime that happens in any country. The problem I see is when people are quick to say or agree anything bad about the USA, but point the finger at another country (such as Iran and Iraq) people get offended or get defensive. |
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| Deleted User | Jan 12 2008, 11:42 PM Post #416 |
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Andy, seriously, you object what I am implying, do you even know what I am implying? The only thing I am implying, and I'll do more than imply I will state it, I object to suicide bombers in any country for the purpose spreading terror. Do you object to that? If yes, (I pray you say no, and if no then disregaurd the following) then you no better than the suicide bombers. |
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| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 13 2008, 12:11 AM Post #417 |
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
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And yet you don`t see by your own rhetoric that you are spreading terror. Nothing I have read that you post sounds peaceful or loving to me. Maybe it is a man thing that I don`t get.
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You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
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| beatlechick | Jan 13 2008, 12:20 AM Post #418 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Do you really know what you are implying? How many times do you hear how badly the US is being run because we allow such things as guns to be sold? I can't tell you how many times I've heard it, and how many times I have heard it since John Lennon was mur-no read that as assassinated in the US. I have heard it almost on a daily basis and yet you imply that the US is a peaceful, loving nation. So what do we do with the people that speak up about what they see happening in this fair nation? Just ask people like Abraham Lincoln, John F. Kennedy, Robert F. Kennedy, and Dr. Martin Luther, King. No wait, you can't. They died at the hands of an assassins bullet. I do understand that we are not the only nation that lives and dies by the bullet but you have no understanding that there are people in other countries that are disgusted with what they see going on in their country. They, too pay a price for speaking out. I find your comment deplorable and completely ignorant. So now you what it is like to have someone show objection to your statement. I, too, will speak out, no implications there. And for the record, I believe that Adilah was only pointing out the US needing peace and love because HELLO this is a thread regarding the US 2008 presidential election. |
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| temptresss | Jan 13 2008, 12:58 AM Post #419 |
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talk about stupidity. i have not read ANY entry on this thread but just wanted to let y'all know this here american has NO IDEA who is even running....(is that probably good?) |
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| beatlechick | Jan 13 2008, 01:03 AM Post #420 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Only good if you don't vote. |
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| temptresss | Jan 13 2008, 01:10 AM Post #421 |
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perfect...coz i don't. to me voting for president is like choosing between John Dillinger or Al Capone! |
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| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 13 2008, 01:12 AM Post #422 |
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
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I do vote, but a f*cking lot of good it does. Dubya stole the election in 2000, what a coincidink that the state his brother was the governor of happened to be the one that mucked it all up. |
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You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
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| Bill | Jan 13 2008, 01:47 AM Post #423 |
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You instantly equated Islam with terror. That's a very bigoted and offensive attitude. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Jan 13 2008, 02:04 AM Post #424 |
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Don't be ridiculous, Dan, of course I object to suicide bombers. I was objecting to what you were implying because the subject of other countries or suicide bombers hadn't, until that point, come up, but the subject of a Muslim (or other faith) President had. Indeed, you quoted the post referencing it. I object to you linking Muslims with suicide bombers - it's the worst kind of idiotic, unhelpful propaganda. I also object to you responding to someone who you know to be a Muslim from Kuwait with that kind of response. Why exactly are there so many suicide bombings in Iraq right now? Could it be something to do with the American invasion (oh, sorry Fox News, liberation) forces which have brought much more instability than stability to the area? Do you realise that America has changed allegiance between countries in that area more times than most people change their lightbulbs over the last couple of decades? Yes, America is a great country, but it has many flaws and one of it's greatest flaws is this huge superiority complex that many of it's citizens seem to have. America has treated and continues to treat many countries as if they are there to serve the needs and purposes of the American people without giving a thought to the people making the goods, sewing the clothes or growing the food. Sure, the times are changing, but the exploitation continues and things are only getting better very slowly. Believe me, if you were living on the other side of the world, living in cramped company-owned conditions earning ten cents an hour, working twelve hours a day, seven days a week, making clothes for Wal*Mart, I'm sure you'd feel a little different about how much America values peace, love and freedom. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| beatlechick | Jan 13 2008, 02:04 AM Post #425 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Should've added if you don't live in the US and don't mind that your future is at stake! ![]() Andy------- And that is coming from a proud American, and one that abhors the very practices that makes WalMart so cheap.
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| BeatleBarb | Jan 13 2008, 02:06 AM Post #426 |
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Holy sh*t, where have I gone wrong? My 18 year old have Ron Paul endorsement on his myspace. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Jan 13 2008, 02:13 AM Post #427 |
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Ron Paul? That guy is outtahere! |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Jan 13 2008, 02:16 AM Post #428 |
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Thanks Cathy, it's something I feel strongly about and it's also something that the UK is guilty of as well, although I believe there is a greater ethical awareness amongst the populace as a whole there. I also don't understand why anyone would choose to not vote - it's the only way the ordinary Americans can exercise their democratic right. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 13 2008, 02:28 AM Post #429 |
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Anyone remember the South Park Wal Mart episode! I don`t have a chip about Wal-Mart or Target, or K-Mart. If you believe that the solution to the problem is in boycotting these kinds of places, then do so. But I don`t think you will make much progress. We all have a bottom line and a budget to live on. Are they exploiting us or are we exploiting them? |
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You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
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| beatlechick | Jan 13 2008, 02:36 AM Post #430 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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For the most part, your first comment may be so but I do see a lot more people becoming involved in American politics and ethics whilst some people just don't try to understand. Me and my family take our voting privileges seriously, with the exception of my brother (who is even becoming more politically aware at the age of 60). My mom used to be a secretary for the Democratic Party in Los Angeles County. I've done some campaigning and think it's high time to start that up again. I just don't get it when people don't take an interest in what is going on around them and don't seem to care how things are handled outside of their little corner of the world. My view is that if you don't take the time to vote, you really can't complain about a war, globalwarming, pollution, the middle east, etc. I am probably wrong for feeling that way but I would rather listen to someone with a warped point of view who votes than to one who is moaning and complaining but doesn't vote. Betsy, they are exploiting us and in 2007 we paid for it. Our dogs and cats and some children paid for our cheaper living lifestyle. |
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| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 13 2008, 02:43 AM Post #431 |
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I agree with you up to a point Cathy, but the fact is that life is not cheap, and people will cut corners to get by. How do we make goods and services readily available to the entire market place at a price they can afford? As long as people are forced to live this way, they will. That is the point I want to make. Sometimes being militant is a luxury. I don`t mind making sacrifices for myself but I want to make sure my children have what they need. |
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You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
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| BeatleBarb | Jan 13 2008, 02:43 AM Post #432 |
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It must be a phase, like when he liked Gray Davis, the republican controller and when he had green hair and wore eyeliner (my son, not the controller, but who knows that for sure). He's got 48 hours or he's out of the will! |
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| temptresss | Jan 13 2008, 03:13 AM Post #433 |
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i stopped voting years ago when i worked at an elections polling place and saw politicians rummaging through the absentee ballots, throwing the ones out that were not their candidate of choice. now...how fair is that? and imagine how much more deceit goes on. P.S. my future's been at stake since i was born (many years ago, doodle doodle doo, will you still be sending me a v....) and i haven't seen any changes for the better YET. SOMEONE, hell, lots of someones are always complaining about whoever makes it in office. gripe gripe gripe. i wanna live on a remote island in tahiti! i don't b*tch about who's president or that we are at war. we all make our beds. my biggest complaint would be how 'narrow-minded' americans are and how the U.S. thinks it's the only country that counts in this world. |
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| Deleted User | Jan 13 2008, 03:16 AM Post #434 |
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Many young people are supporting Ron Paul. I think they feel sorry for him somehow. They think Ron Paul is revolution. |
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| temptresss | Jan 13 2008, 03:31 AM Post #435 |
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for a minute there i thought you meant Ron Jeremy! |
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| BeatleBarb | Jan 13 2008, 03:32 AM Post #436 |
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Is that right? Wow - how misguided is that?? |
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| beatlechick | Jan 13 2008, 03:34 AM Post #437 |
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Fair enough. WalMart is just one of those places I will not willingly go into. I am guilty of the same thing however there are certain boundaries I will not step into. We do have a Walmart, Target, Mervyns, Ross, Kohl's, and Kmart. Unfortunately for me Mervyns, Target, and Ross don't sell my taller size so it is off to Kohl's and our ancient Kmart is closing to become a SuperTarget. For the little items we go to Target. |
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| beatlechick | Jan 13 2008, 03:36 AM Post #438 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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May be misguided but at least they are starting to get interested in the political process. Hopefully they read up on their candidates and either become more for them or find someone else that they think may be better. |
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| Deleted User | Jan 13 2008, 03:39 AM Post #439 |
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All my young American friends will vote for him thats what they tell me. If that's good or not? I dont know Geroge W. Bush was re-elected, anyway, everything is possible in this world |
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| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 13 2008, 03:41 AM Post #440 |
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
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Yep, I hear you. We have all those except Mervyns, but there was a Mervyns in Beijing when I was there in 2005. They also have Wal-Mart, but they spell it Wu-Mart, don`t know why, but I thought it was funny. I got hooked on Ross`s when Dave moved to LA, one of his roomies was Jed Ross, the grandson of the owner of the company. We have the opposite problem, you are tall, I am short. Everything I buy off the rack is miles too long. Maybe I can send you the extra cloth :lol: |
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You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
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| Bill | Jan 13 2008, 06:27 AM Post #441 |
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I find it heartening that there are clear differences between the candidates within the parties. What worries me is that both parties have a default setting which they revert to whenever things don't go to plan. The Republicans' default setting is "God bless America, send the marines!" The Democrats' default setting is "I don't know, what do you think?" Neither is an acceptable option. Any thoughts? |
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| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 13 2008, 06:38 AM Post #442 |
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Plenty, but I don`t feel like going into it. If you don`t live here you really don`t have a clue. The whole system is screwed up from any prospective that you look at it from. However, we are not all stupid racists war mongers regardless of the party of our choice. I happen to be registered as a Democrat, but on occasion have voted Republican, and then one day my grandfathers words came back to me, when in doubt vote for the party and not the man. I don`t always do that, but sometimes I do if it is the lesser of 2 evils. |
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You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
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| scottycatt | Jan 13 2008, 11:19 AM Post #443 |
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I went to a party over Labor Day and a guy kept bumping into me. I looked over to say something to him and it was Ron Jeremy!!
Btw, he looks better in person than he does in films. (Not that I've ever seen any of his films.
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| temptresss | Jan 13 2008, 07:22 PM Post #444 |
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HAHAHAHHA YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING. he must be in his 70s or something. you could have asked for an autograph but he might not have written it out with his hand... :lol: plus....can you just imagine this country run by him?
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| beatlechick | Jan 13 2008, 07:55 PM Post #445 |
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At least we would know who's f*cking the US. Did I just say that?!? HEHEHEHEHEHEHE
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| scottycatt | Jan 13 2008, 10:35 PM Post #446 |
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Couldn't be any worse than it is now. There would still be people everywhere getting screwed, only this time it might be by choice.
And no, I didn't ask for his autograph. I didn't want his head to swell.
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| Bag O' Nails | Jan 13 2008, 10:41 PM Post #447 |
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MaccaMomma
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Awww...voting Republican ain't always so bad, Barb!
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| Bill | Jan 15 2008, 01:54 PM Post #448 |
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| BeatleBarb | Jan 15 2008, 03:50 PM Post #449 |
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Ha ha, Bill! Yep - such wizdumb! |
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| maccascruff | Jan 15 2008, 09:42 PM Post #450 |
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Sing the Changes
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I wish Huckabee would drop out. I think the kids think Ron Paul is a joke. |
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| JanaW | Jan 16 2008, 05:20 PM Post #451 |
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I would vote for John Paul (and Ringo....and George) |
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If slaughterhouses had glass walls the whole world would be vegetarian. Linda McCartney | |
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| fab4fan | Jan 17 2008, 03:34 PM Post #452 |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaoYD7iZG9w
I knew he had it in him!
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| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Jan 17 2008, 10:17 PM Post #453 |
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MaccaMomma
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I wish we had a "Ronald Regan" running for president!
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| beatlechick | Jan 18 2008, 12:14 AM Post #454 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Ronald Reagan makes my hair stand up. All I remember was him not being able to say AIDS (which set research back and killed more people- like the ones I knew), deregulation of the flight controllers (did not do us any good), and tore apart some very good social programs like job training (you know the ones, you don't have to pay an arm and a leg for and still got good results). The job training program really hurt me. I was in one, earning money, and a job I really loved until the funding was cut completely off within a year. A lot of people were affected by that. I remained unemployed for about another year as there were little to no jobs for my qualifications/education. So yeah, a great President he may have been but not at all by my standards I wasn't rich enough to enjoy it. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Jan 18 2008, 08:55 AM Post #455 |
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The title of that youtube clip is flawed and he mentions no 'preference' for Reagan over Clinton, just that Reagan effected change in a way that Nixon and Clinton did not. Reagan's negatives, for me, far outweighed his positives. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Jan 18 2008, 11:35 AM Post #456 |
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www.electoralcompass.com I am closest to Obama and furthest away from Fred Thompson. I am not, however, American - so my opinion counts for very little, other than wishing Obama success, which I was doing all along.
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| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| BeatleBarb | Jan 18 2008, 01:43 PM Post #457 |
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I came out closest to John Edwards and furthest from Fred. |
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| maccascruff | Jan 18 2008, 02:13 PM Post #458 |
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Sing the Changes
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Closest to Hillary. Yikes! Farthest from Fred Thompson. I'm an Obama precinct captain! |
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| Bag O' Nails | Jan 18 2008, 09:44 PM Post #459 |
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MaccaMomma
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I took the test twice. I'm closed to Rudi Giuliani and farthest from Obama. :rolleyes: I'm like a fish out of water around here...
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| modgirl1964 | Jan 19 2008, 12:27 AM Post #460 |
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I'm closest to John Edwards, not bad. Barb, I've sided with your position on him! After seeing older and recent speeches of his and reading about his views, I've got to say, the man's hit the nail on the head. I just got this feeling that Edwards could pull something out of his sleeve and knock the other out of the water. He truly wants to fix this country up and want us, lazy, fat assed, spoiled little snots to get up and do it with him because it's OUR country too. And damnit, I want my country fixed, so I'm all ready up and doing my bit. Who's doing theirs and I don't mean by waiting for the Great White Hope to do it for you. |
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| maccascruff | Jan 19 2008, 03:11 AM Post #461 |
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Sing the Changes
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I'm a hard working Obama precinct captain and I hope to influence people where I live to think likewise. |
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| tagandolfo | Jan 19 2008, 05:06 AM Post #462 |
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I'm closest to Hillary and furthest from Fred Thompson......right on target! |
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| beatlechick | Jan 19 2008, 07:06 AM Post #463 |
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Right on target. Closest to Obama and furthest from Thompson!
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| Reverend Dave | Jan 19 2008, 08:40 AM Post #464 |
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I was disappointed Biden dropped out so quickly. He's the one with the most foreign affairs experience and what I think the U.S. needs right now is a leader who understands foreign relations. I doubt McCain will get the nomination so the choices will be more governors with absolutely no foreign experience or inexperienced senators and a mayor. Apparently I'm closest to Ron Paul - who I wouldn't vote for - and farthest from Fred Thompson - who I wouldn't vote for. |
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With great power comes great responsibility. With great age.... What was I going to say? | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Jan 19 2008, 11:00 PM Post #465 |
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MaccaMomma
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I don't think I'd vote for Rudi...don't know HOW that survey came up with him! :wacko: But I do know I wouldn't vote for Obama...or any other Demo, for that matter.
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| BeatleBarb | Jan 19 2008, 11:02 PM Post #466 |
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We still love you, Heidi. We all have different views and perspectives. Hey, my son is a Ron Paul supporter and I still love him! |
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| Queenbee | Jan 20 2008, 12:59 AM Post #467 |
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I'm closest to Obama, Edwards second and Clinton 3rd. Ron Paul is in the middle and Thompson in the rear. Linda ~ good for you on supporting Obama by being a precinct captain. At least this election is more interesting than in the past. We have a much wider selection to hope for. I just want a stronger America and PEACE. |
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PEACE and love to my friends, Judy When the Power of Love over comes the Love of Power, the world will know Peace. -Sri Chinmnoy Ghose Till me meet again ~ I Love you Mike! You were one of a kind. | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Jan 20 2008, 01:35 AM Post #468 |
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MaccaMomma
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Thanks, Barb... I love you all too~
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![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| maccascruff | Jan 20 2008, 03:36 AM Post #469 |
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Sing the Changes
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Spent the after at Obama HQ and going back tomorrow and after work several evenings next week. Got to get Obama as the candidate so we can have change. All the press is saying Hillary won Nevada, but the delegates went 13 Obama, 12 Clinton. Don't quite know how that works, but that is what happened. Now Obama and Hillary have the same number of delegates and it's on to South Carolina next Saturday. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Jan 22 2008, 02:58 AM Post #470 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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I don't blame the people who shop at Wal-Mart or the people who work for Wal-Mart - they've often little or no choice about what they can afford or where they can work. There are many small towns across America which are, basically, plantation economies, with Wal-Mart being virtually the only place to work and the only place that people can afford to shop with the terrible wages that Wal-Mart pay and the most basic of conditions they offer their employees. They care very little for the communities they destroy and for the local environments. They exploit their employees (once campaigning to pay their workers less than the minimum wage), they exploit their suppliers and they run small businesses bankrupt. The only way to rid your communities of this blight on America is to not allow them into your community in the first place or by immediately boycotting them once they set up shop in your town and supporting your local businesses. There are options, there are choices... but once Wal-Mart, with the misguided financial support of the local community, run them out of business, those choices disappear. Just look how rich the CEOs of the company and the Walton family are and compare them to their employees, struggling to get by, not being able to afford health insurance - and then compare them further with their Chinese suppliers, living in factories, earning mere cents per hour. They are fiercely anti-union, have lost anti-discrimination class action lawsuits and have also got involved in censorship, by refusing to stock some albums & movies with a morality the company didn't agree with. For some communities, this meant that these titles simply weren't on sale in their town. I don't believe that there are many more corporations more evil than this one. Unfortunately, for change to happen, you will have to educate everyone that currently uses and supports Wal-Mart. Not an easy task, but the documentary Wal-Mart: The High Cost Of Low Price (2005) by Robert Greenwald is a good place to start for anyone who hasn't seen it. This isn't about being 'militant', this is life and death for some people and if that's putting it too strongly, it's certainly a company causing a reduction of quality of life for thousands of Americans and using poverty as a tool to ensure that it has a captive workforce and consumer base. To hell with them. Oh, and Nevada - you made a big, big mistake. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 22 2008, 03:15 AM Post #471 |
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
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Andy do you know that Wal-Mart was one of the first retail outlets to offer all their employees the chance to purchase shares in the company at reduced prices? When Wal-Mart went public these people became millionaires overnight. The company is run vastly different now that Sam is no longer with us. They still pay a higher than minimum wage to new hires than, K-mart, Target and any of the other discount chains in most cities. They do have employee insurance available to those that work at least 28 hours a week. Also if you have been employed by them and purchase stock after you leave their employment you can still continue to buy stock directly through your account at the same discount without having to pay a fee to keep the account. There is a lot more to this company than meets the eye. Education is the key, but you need to look at more than just what you read written by someone who writes a sensationalized account of all the negatives. Wal-Mart is not any worse than all these other companies. Let me ask you this. Where in this day and time can you go and be guaranteed that you aren`t buying something that was produced in China? I can only speak of what I know to be facts. I got my facts because I did work there. I do still have my stock account. I had medical insurance for my entire family when I was in their employ and Sam Walton and my grandfather were cousins. |
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You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
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| Bill | Jan 22 2008, 03:30 AM Post #472 |
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Regardless of the policies they espoused? :hmm: |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Jan 22 2008, 03:37 AM Post #473 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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Not much of what you have said addresses the bulk of my points about Wal-Mart, Betsy. I have read many articles about Wal-Mart including extensive pieces written by respected journalists in very reputable newspapers. I doubt if those in the lower paid jobs could afford to buy much stock, if any at all. A huge amount of companies do it and, in my opinion, it's a capitalist con. A way of making people feel as if they own a piece of the company when all their wages could afford to buy would mean that they have a few meaningless shares, whilst pushing up the price of the shares because it creates a constant demand on the stock market. Of course, it's a much cheaper gesture than actually paying people a decent wage, isn't it? I think that the 70% turnover of staff (staff who leave in the first year of their employment) speaks volumes about employee satisfaction. As for heath care, this site has some facts about how Wal-Mart compares with fellow employers when it comes to taking care of it's employees. I'm sure that they, as a company, continue to evolve and have met a good few of their criticisms with some action and a good healthy dose of PR. They continue to aggressively expand across the US and other countries and the only people who can stop them are their potential customers. As for goods from China, you only have to check the label each time you buy something or at least be sure that the retailler you're buying from supports fairtrade and good labour practises. I have no objections to buying goods from China as long as the workers producing the goods are paid a good, fair, living wage. Wal-Mart are, probably, better than they were - but that wouldn't be difficult and they have a long, long way to go before I would ever shop there. Indeed, we have boycotted Asda in the UK because they are now owned by Wal-Mart and share their parent company's ideology. Their ethics when it comes to sourcing eggs, meat and clothing are almost non-existent. The only way they will change their ways is if their consumer base demands it and it therefore becomes profitable to do so. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Bill | Jan 22 2008, 03:44 AM Post #474 |
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I don't understand the misty-eyed nostalgia for Reagan either. I think people might be choosing to remember the personality and not the policies. It's certainly true that he made people feel good about themselves and confident about America again, but you could say the same thing about Bill Clinton. On that level, I think I'd still choose President Blowjob over President Iran-Contra. Reagan's political masterstroke was in admitting that he was not all powerful and asking people to call their congressmen in support of his policies. He got a lot through showing a little humility. By contrast, whenever I hear Bush's radio address, I hear the sound of a 60yo man holding his breath until he turns blue. There was a fascinating series a few years ago called Altered Statesmen. It looked at several great leaders and how their judgement was effected by their condition, from Churchill being a manic depressive, to Kennedy being whacked out on painkillers to Reagan being demonstrably in the early stages of Alzheimer's. This fact was revealed partly by the fact that Reagan wrote in his personal diary about how good it was to see this old friend even though the meeting had been cancelled. It was still in his list of appointments so he wrote as if it had happened. Hey, maybe people should be voting for whoever took the most drugs! |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
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| tagandolfo | Jan 22 2008, 03:49 AM Post #475 |
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In Nevada, where I live, you can think of the caucus this way - Hillary won the popular vote but Obama won the electoral vote - if that makes any sense. Actually, Obama carried the most counties 11 out of 17- which gave him more delegates(13) while Hillary won 6 of the biggest counties but that didn't give her the delegates she needs to be the out right winner. The interesting part is that she was able to prevail with women, older democrats and Hispanics, while Obama was able to carry the young vote and Black voters. Young voters are not always reliable when it comes to election time - will they show up - He also did very well in rural counties where he has spent time campaigning. The real test will come with the county and state conventions. The decisions on Saturday are not binding so at either level the group could decide to back one person over the other and the second candidate will lose - could be either Hillary or Obama. I'm a delegate to the county convention so I am interested to see how this will play out. By the way Andy - Betsy has a point about where you can shop. I live in a rural area and Wal Mart is sometimes our only option on getting goods that are not outrageously priced and when you are on a fixed income like I am that is a consideration. I wish we had other options but when the nearest shopping is 75 to 200 miles away - as it is here in Nevada - you take what you can get. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Jan 22 2008, 03:55 AM Post #476 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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If you review what I've written, I conceed that sometimes it's people's only choice, but I believe that it's wrong to have let it become that way. There must have been a time before Wal-Mart - what did people do then? Why did the locals allow their other stores to go out of business and, if they didn't support their local stores, can they really complain that all they've got left is Wal-Mart? :hmm: |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 22 2008, 05:01 AM Post #477 |
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
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Andy what is a fair and decent wage when you are talking about hiring people with no skills and therefore cannot work elsewhere. The fact is that Wal-Mart has had a history (long before the complaints) of started their unskilled workers at above minimum wage. As for China, don`t believe everything you read in the label. It doesn`t have to say made in China when in fact many times that is the point of origin before the big name retail designers import the goods and then slap their own name brand label on it. Have you any idea what people earn in China? We could never live on what they make, but the fact is, they have the fastest growing economy with the lowest cost of living at this point in time. If Wal-Mart and many other international retailers are exploiting the Chinese then it is the governments fault for allowing it. Do you remember way back in the day when Wal-Mart had a plan called made in America. They sold goods that were made in America at a loss in order to keep those manufacturers profitable. At one time they sold more goods made in the US than all the other discount retailers combined. As for the stock purchase. I started at their lowest pay scale and put aside 150 dollars a month to purchase stock, which was the maximum you could put in each month, but they had a secondary plan which allowed you to make a 1 time lump sum purchase each year with a maximum of 25,000 dollars. I worked there 2 years and left the company with 7500 shares due to stock splits and reinvested dividends. The reason that their turnover rate is so high, which is not out of line with the rest of the retail marketplace is because many people leave when they find out they won`t be getting a free ride. A lot of people just don`t like to work, and these are usually the ones that bounce from job to job. The ones that stay can move into management fairly quickly if they show a desire and willingness to go the extra mile. I started as a cashier, 2 months later I was Customer service manager. 4 months after that I became third shift supervisor and 2 months later was promoted to work in the cash office. That is the hardest department in that company to get in. Wal-Mart isn`t perfect but they aren`t the devil either. Retail is what it is, and of course they are going to be blamed and targetted the most because they are still the biggest in the world, and provide the most jobs around the world. But that didn`t happen by magic. It is because people shop there more than anywhere else. Ethics are fine and I am glad that a lot of people stand up for theirs, but at the end of the day, you can`t pay your rent and eat with your ethics. Each person has to find their own level and if you are fortunate enough to be able to soothe your conscious by not shopping for the lowest price then you are doing what is right for you. But don`t kid yourself into thinking that there are any retailers in the marketplace who don`t buy the most for the least, and sell it for as much as the market will bare. And I`m willing to bet my Wal-Mart stock that all these other retailers don`t give a rats ass either, because the bottom line rules the world. |
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You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
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| fab4fan | Jan 22 2008, 05:08 AM Post #478 |
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Caretaker
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Some of the truest words ever typed on these pages.
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| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 22 2008, 05:37 AM Post #479 |
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
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Wow, thankyou John. Coming from you means a lot to me! |
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You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
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| Bill | Jan 22 2008, 06:49 AM Post #480 |
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I think this is getting a bit too simplistic. Yes, business is business but it doesn't have to be unethical. To suggest that Wal-mart must be doing something right because of their success is like saying McDonald's must be the best food in the world because it's so popular. Um.... NO! Similarly, China may very well be the fastest growing economy in the world but you have to ask yourself why. Could it be because they have literally tens of millions of labourers working in disgraceful conditions for 10c a day, living on the factory premises which they have to pay for and getting one day off per month? I think so. To blow all that off by saying "Wow, they have the fastest growing economy," is being pretty blind. So the moral of this story is that if you want the fastest growing economy in the world, all you need is millions of peasant slaves. Many other countries used to be like that but they got better and pressure should be placed on China to get better. It's way too simplistic to say, "They're so successful - they must be doing something right. If history and experience teaches us anything it's that countries and corporations who are THAT successful must be doing something WRONG. It also bewilders me that any reasonable person would not think that someone who gives 8 hours' labour a day wouldn't deserve enough wages to live on no matter what their skill level. |
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| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 22 2008, 07:52 AM Post #481 |
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
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It is true that Chinas biggest resource are its workers. And yes many of them do what we would call slave labor. And many of them are glad to have the jobs. Especially since the generation coming of age are from the one child per family law. Now they are finding they don`t have enough young people to take care of the aged. Of course China needs to up their standards in the human rights field, but don`t we all. Are you telling me Bill that every employed person living in Australia no matter what their education and skill make enough to support themselves and a family doing 1 menial job. If so, then we are all living in the wrong country. I only buy what I can afford to pay cash for. Credit is for emergencies only. My husband and I paid a fortune into our social securtiy system when we were able to be employed outside the home. We only get very little of that back each month. Now how fair is that. I`m not talking about having paid in several thousands or even a few hundred thousand dollars. We paid in more than 1 million dollars into a system that made us jump through rings of fire for over 2 years to collect OUR money. None of us can sit and point the finger at the rest of the world until we clean up our own issues. Go to China and spend some time there and see the good and the bad and then judge. Work for Wal-Mart for several years and then judge. Global economics is a shakey house of cards at best. Throwing out the baby with the bath water will not solve anything. Besides the only place I have been in the world where I could eat 4 star cuisine 3 times a day and spend less than 10 dollars for a family of 3 was China. We stayed at 4 star hotels for less than 15 dollars a day. We travelled for a month around the entire country by train for less than 1 hundred dollars. I spent more for the plane tickets over there than I did the entire month we visited. And we didn`t book American or Western catered to tours. We travelled with Chinese tour groups catering to their expectations and we were never disappointed. |
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You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
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| Bill | Jan 22 2008, 10:31 AM Post #482 |
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And when people are actually glad to be slaves, that tells you all you need to know about the Chinese economy. Still, who is saying they're glad? Nike?
Well, read what I actually said. Anyone who works full time deserves a living wage. It's a no-brainer. Now a menial worker here would not be able to support a family of four but most people over 18 who work full time can afford to keep themselves in food and rent and that's how it ought to be. That's why we have a minimum wage set something that people can actually live on if they work full time. Maybe you are living in the wrong country if you accept a system where people can work every waking hour and still not be able to pay the rent.
And what does this tell you?
Neither will mixed metaphors. Fair trade is not unworkable. Certain interests just want you to believe that it is. |
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| maccascruff | Jan 22 2008, 02:07 PM Post #483 |
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Sing the Changes
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I have a friend in retail here. She started at $10 an hour, which is not a living wage. They gave her a raise--to $10.10 and now tell her she is well paid. She has no benefits and qualifies for free medical and dental care and food from the food bank. She works hard for her $10.10. As for Wal-Mart, during 2000-2004, when I lived in small town Iowa, I saw Wal-Mart come to town and close every small store in town down. Now there are two places to shop--Wal-Mart and Wally World. |
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| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 22 2008, 03:39 PM Post #484 |
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
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Wal-Mart did not shut those businesses down. Consumers did. Bill, I can`t do the quote by quote point the way that you do, but I said they do what we would call slave labor. Because to us it would be unthinkable to work that hard for so little. But the other point I was making about the cost of goods and services while I was in China was to make the point that the cost of living is very low there. We couldn`t live on what they earn, but they can. Of course things are not equal but when have they ever been. I believe many things need to change, I just don`t have the answer on how to do it and neither do most other people who just drone on endlessly about what a mess the world is in, and it is always the other guy, the other company or the countries fault. One person working full time in the US for Wal-Mart or Mikkiedees can make ends meet too. What do you do when you add a spouse and kids to the equation? A lot of people then work 2 jobs and they find that they still can`t provide to make their childrens lives better, so then they shop at Wal-Mart, for school supplies, clothing and medicines because then they are able to stretch that dollar a little farther. |
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You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
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| Bill | Jan 22 2008, 03:52 PM Post #485 |
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Yeah, they end up shopping at Wal-mart! How's THAT for a self-fulfilling prophecy! There's no such thing as a full-time Wal-mart employee. They don't let people work more than 28 hours a week. Chinese sweat shops are slave labour by any measure. They do not have a decent standard of living even by Chinese standards. As I said, they live on the factory premises and get one day off per week. The first step towards improving things for everyone is to stop pretending these monolithic corporations are so innocent. You can blame market forces for shutting down the "mom and pop" stores but if Wal-mart is selling a product for less than the independent store can buy it for, that's not a level playing field, is it? That's not FAIR trade. |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Jan 22 2008, 09:16 PM Post #486 |
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MaccaMomma
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Whenever you examine the general policies of Demos and Repubs, they always come down to basic philosophies of liberalism or conservatism....and I vote on the conservative edge....and I haven't ever found a Demo that fit that criteria.... |
![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Jan 22 2008, 09:25 PM Post #487 |
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MaccaMomma
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The whole Wal-Mart thing spins my head around in circles...all I know is that in the "big" city half an hour away, Wal-Mart is one of many places to shop, which include Target, Kmart, etc! In the smaller town where I live, Kmart is king (yuk) and we have many smaller other places to shop. Where do you draw the line of which big chain is "good or evil?" Oh, and I definitely have a big problem with every stinkin thing that I see being "made in China!" Costco is one of my fav places to shop and it's starting to royally p*ss me off because all I see is China China China. <_< :angry: But what do I do?
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![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| DCBeatle64 | Jan 22 2008, 09:28 PM Post #488 |
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Wings nutter
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well thats the importers fault and thats what gonna have when we live in a world enthralled by Globalisation |
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I'm a BIGGER Beatles fan than you and I'm an even BIGGER Wings fan than that... 'You're a Paul McCartney fan? No you're a Wings fan'. 'Thankyou Scotland' Ho Hey Ho... ![]() I am the buttplug goo goo goo joob | |
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| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 22 2008, 10:38 PM Post #489 |
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
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Is it better to spend more money at a high end department store that has slapped a designer label inside the garment, knowing it was made by the same people in Asia or buy for less and put your hard earned dollars to better use. Where do you think the majority of the clothing and small appliances are made that are sold all around the world? I`m not saying that it is right to have people work under those conditions. I`m just trying to figure out why one company can earn the title of being so beastly when all the other discount and high end department stores buy from the same source. Do they make Levis that are sold at Macys in factories where the workers are paid above minimum wage, and the ones that are sold in Wal-Mart in sweatshops? |
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You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
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| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 22 2008, 10:46 PM Post #490 |
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
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I take it then that you have worked for Wal-Mart. Funny when I did I always got my 40 hours and overtime during holidays. Wal-Mart defines part time as 28 hours or less and in order to recieve full benefits you have to earn the priveledge to work more hours. They only cut the hours on those that are dead weight, and they do that in order to force them to leave rather than fire them and then have them collect unemployment. Seems fair to me. Why let someone stay on the clock when all they do is stand around and hold up the counters, or sneak in the stock room to nap? |
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You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Jan 22 2008, 11:32 PM Post #491 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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That's called constructive dismissal and it leads to huge payouts in industrial tribunals in the UK. It's a cowardly approach. If an employee is no good, fire them and be willing to back up your reasons for firing them with evidence. Why should it be of any concern to Wal-Mart management if a fired employee is eligible for Unemployment benefit or not? That strikes me as mean and vindictive, plus I'm sure that people have been subject to these underhand tactics regardless of whether they're 'dead weight' or not. Perhaps their face didn't fit. Perhaps they decided that they wanted to join a union? I have read many personal accounts of people who have been subject to this kind of unfair treatment from Wal-Mart and other uncaring employers for those reasons. It's playing with people's lives and it sickens me. Betsy - I don't think that working as a manager for Wal-Mart has done you any favours. You sound as if you're defending some pretty poor ethics. Bill, thank you for saying many things that I would have ended up saying. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 22 2008, 11:45 PM Post #492 |
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
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I cannot speak for employment or unemployment practises for any other country, but I do know what goes on in mine. All I am saying is Wal-Mart is no different than any other retail outlet, fast food chain, or grocery store. Wal-Mart gets the bad press and yet they still keep on going. Close Wal-Mart and put hundreds of thousands if not millions out of work. That will solve everything. I never said that I don`t think that things need to change. The point that I have tried to make all along is that they are not the only bad guy. Frankly Andy, I don`t appreciate your assessment of my ethics but of course that is your right to do so. I would never presume to criticize your employer as I know nothing about how it works. So you have talked to many who were employed there and they weren`t happy. I`m sure a lot aren`t. I didn`t like working in retail either but it had nothing to do with the company. I found that if you worked hard and were fair and honest with Wal-Mart they returned the favor. I saw my fair share of goldbricks while I worked there as well. They benefit no one, you have to work twice as hard to cover what they leave undone and they work the system as long as they can before they hit the highway and then have bitter stories to tell. I think you need to see it for yourself to understand it. And even then you don`t understand everything. We are all looking for Utopia, but until we find it we have to do the best we can with what we have. |
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You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Jan 23 2008, 12:09 AM Post #493 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you, Betsy, and I hope you know that I'm extremely fond of you and have a huge amount of respect for you - it's just my (strong) opinion on this subject. You can criticise my employer, the First Group, all you like and I wouldn't be upset with you - they're by no means a perfect company and I'd be lying if I told you that I agreed with everything they did, but there are far worse and less ethical companies out there and I wouldn't be foolish enough to join in with any public criticism of them, nor would I defend any indefensible actions. They do, however, treat me - as an employee - very well. Wal-Mart are bound to get the biggest press, being the biggest and most successful chain of superstores. If people target the fast food industry, they tend to go for McDonalds because if they make changes in their business practises, it affects the most people, same as Wal-Mart. I do, however, believe that they are a company which could easily afford to treat and pay their workforce a lot better than they do - their profitability is evidence enough. The way Wal-Mart, as one of the US's largest employers, treats it's employees is a benchmark for the way other, smaller, companies will treat theirs, if Wal-Mart can get away with it. I believe that a company as large and successful as Wal-Mart should lead by example and make hundreds of thousands of American lives better. They aren't the only bad guy out there (far from it!) but what they do is very high profile and it matters, just like what America does matters to the rest of the world. I have also worked with my fair share of 'goldbricks' as you put it and understand what you're saying completely, but these people are surely only a very small percentage of the 70% turnover of staff who leave in their first year of employment at Wal-Mart. The American labour market can't be that bad, surely? |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 23 2008, 12:55 AM Post #494 |
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I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
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It`s okay Andy, I`m quite fond of you as well. As for the labor market in this country, if you are blue collar then it is pretty bad across the board. I wish they would do away with tipping in this country. It has always griped me that you go and pay for a nice meal and then have to tip the server because the law doesn`t require the restauranture to pay even minimum wage.I get exactly what you and all the rest are saying. I just want my point to be respected too. |
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You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
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| fab4fan | Jan 23 2008, 05:41 AM Post #495 |
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Caretaker
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Constructive dismissal? Now there's a tutelary policy created by a roomful of politicians that haven't a clue of how much they choke off productivity with there endless need for paperwork. Yeah, some lifelong government worker has a clue on how to decide whether or not the employee is a "goldbrick" in the real world. WalMart cares whether or not the useless excuse for an employee collects unemployment because they have to pay into the unemployment fund, with the rate increasing with each occurence. I know of no law that penalizes employees who habitually work 90 days, get themselves fired and get a funded 26 week vaca. |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Mia Culpa | Jan 23 2008, 06:00 AM Post #496 |
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Spot on. Every country has some sh*tty policy and we could all do with major improvements. If there's a perfect nation on this planet I've never heard of it. |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| Bill | Jan 23 2008, 06:58 AM Post #497 |
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Not to get hung up on the definitions of Liberal and Conservative but the recent crop of Republicans are a million miles from traditional, small government conservatism. |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
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| Bill | Jan 23 2008, 07:03 AM Post #498 |
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How recently was it that you got 40 hours? And if you really want to play the "have you worked there" card, should I assume that you have worked 12 hours a day, 30 days a month in a Chinese factory? That argument works both ways. If an employee deserves to be fired, they should be fired. What does Wal-mart care what happens next? Of course, if they don't deserve to be fired but Wal-mart wants to be rid of them anyway, that's when you would have to pull the trick of making their lives there untenable. |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
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| Bill | Jan 23 2008, 07:12 AM Post #499 |
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Wow! Anyone would think that unemployments benefits pay $1000 a week. Maybe I'm the one living under the wrong system after all. The irony in all this is that if the laws were geared more towards supporting employees (reasonable minimum wage, that kind of thing) it would end up saving Wal-mart money and they would be able to sack any underperforming employees. Here's the thing about firing people though: Why shouldn't a business have to take responsibility for making a bad decision? Wal-mart chooses who they hire, do they not? And if they make a bad decision that ends up costing them money, then that's just life in the big city isn't it? None of us could walk away from a bad decision with impunity - why should they? |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Jan 23 2008, 07:15 AM Post #500 |
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MaccaMomma
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Agreed; but I don't know of any Democrat that I've ever agreed with more than a Repub's. No party is perfect.
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![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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Awww...voting Republican ain't always so bad, Barb!




2:01 PM Jul 11