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| 2008 U.S. Presidential Election | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 22 2007, 05:49 AM (37,412 Views) | |
| Bill | Nov 2 2008, 07:34 AM Post #3401 |
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Republicans, fear not. Here's what will (and won't) happen if Obama wins. He will not paint the White House black. No flags will be burned. There will be no telegram sent to bin Laden saying, "We surrender," nor will he be appointed as national security advisor. Obama will not open his inaugural address with a chant of "Black power!" Churches will not be converted to Mosques. There will be no mandatory abortions or gay weddings. There will be no Redistribution Squads sent around to seize the assets of hard-working people in order to hand them out amongst welfare queens. Your taxes will probably go up. That would be the case under McCain too. It's what you get for electing people who thought they could reduce taxation while increasing spending and having a couple of wars. Sorry, but you have no-one to blame but yourselves. The war in Iraq will drag on. Even the wisest leaders cannot change an impossible situation. There's simply no easy way out. See above. He will not "pimp out" Air Force One. No-one will be called "Whitey." Those are my predictions. If anyone has any doubts about them, my money is on the table. Here's my only question: John McCain still insists he knows how to get bin Laden but won't tell anyone. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he may have told Bush and was ignored. It wouldn't be the first time Bush has ignored sage advice. But if Obama wins, will McCain put country first and tell him what his secret plan is? |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Nov 2 2008, 01:27 PM Post #3402 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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All I can say, Heidi, is that if the pranksters had managed to get Obama like this, I definitely would have posted it! I have to say that I am surprised that she didn't cotton on to their joke, given some of the things "the French President" was saying.
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| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Nov 2 2008, 01:42 PM Post #3403 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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1. Are the polls correct and there will be a clear Obama victory? Polls are never 100% accurate, but over the last few weeks, surely they can't all be wrong... everything points to a clear Obama victory. 2. How accurate are the polls? Are they really inclusive of all voters? Many reputable polls tell you they are accurate to a certain percentage point i.e. +/- 2%, so if Obama is leading in a certain poll by 10 points, then according to the amount of people polled and their demographics, his lead - accurately - would be anything from 8% to 12%. It's not a completely accurate science, but it gives a good indication of how the respondents felt on that day! 3. Just how biased is the media? Are they just reporting a clear Obama victory in an effort to discourage McCain voters from coming out to vote? Ha ha! Good one! Oh, wait - you weren't joking? From what I have seen, the media have been reporting the results of the polls. I can understand that even the most optimistic Republicans are silently preparing for defeat and looking for answers why, but I don't think the 'biased media' charge washes, personally. If the Democrats win, it will be because the people of the USA preferred Obama/Biden to McCain/Palin - and it has to be said that the latter camp have made many more errors of judgement than the Democrats... most notably, the selection of the running mate. 4. Will the vote be so close that it will go on for several days after the election before a winner is declared? I bloody well hope not. You can never predict what will happen in a Presidential election, but all indicators suggest that it won't be that close. 5. Despite the results, will it be contested by either candidate? Depends if there is any evidence of foul play. Although mistakes were made, the Democrats were perfectly entitled to contest the 2000 election and, had all avenues been allowed to play out without there being (perhaps necessary) time constraints, it could have easily led to there being a Gore Presidency. If it has to be, it has to be - and it is the interests of democracy that this happens. 6. Will there be riots? If Obama doesn't win? Sure. 7. Just how many people will actually be moving to Canada? If Obama doesn't win? Loads.
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| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| ThirdHarmony | Nov 2 2008, 02:15 PM Post #3404 |
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Just a bit of (hopefully) minor nitpicking here, as per my post on page to in the "Go and vote"-thread, but the +/- 2% refers to the estimated statistical sampling error of a given approximation of voters (for instance, weighting of dems/reps amongst registered voters, and estimates of who is a "likely voter"). As such, the poll may be very, very accurate given a correct weighting - but it the weighting is way off, the result could be off by more than those +/- 2%. The reputation of a pollster is often determined by how closely they predicted the outcome in a previous race (say 2004 presidential or the 2008 primaries). Not only how close they got the candidate percentages, but how accurately they weighted likely voters in their polls. Some pollsters gain lots of undue attention because they once hit a bullseye with a poll more or less by accident, whereas previous polls were way off. Zogby is an example of the latter. If a pollster assumes that the same groups of people, no more nor less, turn out to vote as in the 2004 election, they will employ a "traditional" weighting. Now, I doubt anyone here expects turnout to be identical to 2004. I think it would be a stretch to imagine the observed record-breaking early voting turnout, especially in states like Georgia, to be indicative of equal amounts of McCain supporters flocking to the ballots. The increase in African American voters is significant as they apppear to actually be going to the ballots and not just saying they intend to. The increase in youth vote is more speculative - because although they go for Obama by a vast majority, they are also very prone to be lazy on election day or disorganized enough to forget to register in time (I'm sure quite a few aren't aware that they indeed need to register - except in North Dakota, which has same-day registration). Pollsters often undersample young voters because they tend to have cells instead of landline phones, but this may be offset by youth not turning up at the ballots anyway. Young people turned out in large numbers for Kerry, but not as much as expected. The weightings of all 8 major pollsters appear to be converging now. We shall se if they are converging on an accurate weighting. Statistical noise is always present, and media outlets will always over-expose outliers that show one candidate running away with it or one candidate closing in dramatically. |
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"My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson "Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Nov 2 2008, 02:17 PM Post #3405 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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You see, that's why I said what I did in one paragraph - because to explain it would have taken the time and energy it did for you!
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| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Jacaranda | Nov 2 2008, 02:24 PM Post #3406 |
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I'll field this one in particular. 3. Just how biased is the media? Are they just reporting a clear Obama victory in an effort to discourage McCain voters from coming out to vote? "The media", as a term, is almost as large and encompassing as "all women" or "all Republicans." It is neither fair or accurate to generalize about very large groups, particularly in the U.S. where our media like our population is very heterogeneous. That being said, is the media biased? As a whole in the U.S., no. But individually? Depends on the individual media outlet you are talking about, what your opinion is of them personally, but more telling than most things, who is their owner and do they have an agenda? If you get down to individual reporters, commentators or editors, though, you can of course very clearly see bias (think of Rush Limbaugh, Charles Krauthammer, or Keith Olbermann or Eugene Robinson). Just as one example of media outlet bias, that I have brought up briefly before here, is the illustrious Washington Times, a newspaper based here in DC which is owned by the Unification Church. Are they biased? Yes. Think about it and stay away from them. Are [the media] just reporting a clear Obama victory in an effort to discourage McCain voters from coming out to vote? Is this a serious question? Any reputable media outlet bases its reporting on facts, and the facts are that Obama is leading in the polls and many conservatives are publicly admitting that it is time to recognize the Democrats have an unprecedented opportunity to take the White House and control Congress both. By the way, voter registration is at an all-time high and that is on both sides -- I just read an article that in my county in Maryland which is heavily Democratic, the Republican base has been energized by Palin as the VP pick and numbers are up for Republicans. I know that polling places are anticipating very unusual high turnout with long waits to vote on Tuesday -- 85% of all the eligible voters in my county are estimated to have registered. That's one reason why I voted yesterday. ![]() |
![]() "If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through." General Melchett, Blackadder Goes Forth | |
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| ThirdHarmony | Nov 2 2008, 02:27 PM Post #3407 |
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Yes Andy, you can always rely on my compulsive tendencies to be prolix. It is part of the explanation to why my post rate is so low compared to the amount of time I've been a member. Sheer typing fatigue. To indulge in some personal gut-feeling interpretation of the polls: Obama has held a lead in the latest 159 national polls, and shows extraordinary results over the entire electoral map, even in red states where nobody expects him to win. This suggests to me that either A. Obama will win, and win decisively or B. That 8 different major pollsters have managed to get their results devastatingly wrong for hundreds of polls. I know which option I think is more likely, and it coincides with the option I personally hope is right.
Edited by ThirdHarmony, Nov 2 2008, 02:28 PM.
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"My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson "Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. | |
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| Bill | Nov 2 2008, 02:27 PM Post #3408 |
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Watching the news doesn't have to be an X-File. Maybe they're reporting Obama is ahead in the polls simply because Obama is ahead in the polls. Is that really such an outlandish suggestion? |
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| Bill | Nov 2 2008, 03:18 PM Post #3409 |
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This is why Obama is ahead:
Someone really needs to tell the Republicans that it's not survival of the dickiest and that being learned and articulate and inclusive is a GOOD thing. As with everything else they've done this century, it looks like they're going to have to learn the hard way. Edited by Bill, Nov 2 2008, 03:18 PM.
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| ThirdHarmony | Nov 2 2008, 04:08 PM Post #3410 |
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I believe the Republican party will soon be faced the critical question of delf-definition. Is the "big tent" going to remain, or will it be ripped apart into its subcomponents; fiscons, neocons and theocons? McCain has not historially been what you would call a conservative from the rightmost part of the party - although that is the base he has tried to appeal to this cycle, and in the process sacrificing the valuable middle ground. The far right knows this. The neocons spent their political capital on the 8 Bush years (let's not forget how they smeared McCain in their quest for the White House 8 years ago). They have had no real successor which could rally the base. The theocons/evangelicals are facing decreasing political influence and relevance as a result of the neocon strategy. They had no real candidate (Huckabee may have shared parts of their ideology, but they ceratainly didn't like his socioeconomic policies). The fiscons/wall-st-cons wanted Romney, but his mormon faith alienated the far right base, and his stance on social issues alienated the moderates. Now as moderate Republicans are abandoning McCain and endorsing Obama, much due to the abysmal chioce of Palin, I have seen far-righters proclaim "good riddance" and that they intend a superconservative brand of republicanism as soon as the moderates have been purged. Question is, what happens with the political landscape if one of the political parties is split in two or more parts? If this is not to happen, who will be the person to revive the alliance which is now on the brink of civil war? |
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"My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson "Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. | |
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| maccascruff | Nov 2 2008, 06:43 PM Post #3411 |
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Sing the Changes
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My parents started out saying they could not vote for Obama because he was black. It has taken a lot of work to get them to come around to see the light of who we need in the White House. My father, in particular, is incredibly racist. I don't think many racists in this country will be voting for Obama. |
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| maccascruff | Nov 2 2008, 06:49 PM Post #3412 |
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Sing the Changes
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The Clerk and Recorder's Office put an early polling place on the campus here in town. They had no idea of what to expect. Over 18,000 students voted. I would guess because of the nature of the university itself, that polling place will have voted heavily for Obama, as will my county. We have to outvote Colorado Springs and Focus on the Family to win this state.
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| maccascruff | Nov 2 2008, 07:17 PM Post #3413 |
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Sing the Changes
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Response from Obama for America in regards to the post by Mary Ann that I forward to them: Dear Friend, Thanks for sending in an email about Barack Obama's economic plan. The idea that Barack Obama is a socialist or plans to "redistribute" your income is an outright lie. To read Barack Obama's real economic plan, please click here: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/ We don't know much about the author behind this email, but we do know that smears like this are part of a broader, shadowy strategy to scare people who aren't very familiar with Barack by spreading anonymous, false information. The truth is, Barack Obama wants to promote a fair tax code that rewards hard work and will cut taxes for 95 percent of American workers and families. There's no way to stop these dangerous, misleading viral emails one by one, but together we can take the political process back from these cynical fear politics. We can all start by spreading the truth about Barack Obama and his tax plan. Head to Fight the Smears to get details about more smears and see what else you can do. Here are a few facts about Barack's tax policy that people should know: * The independent website FactCheck.org has refuted each of the claims in this email point-by-point. Check it out at http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/would_obama_tax_my_profits_if_i.html * Obama's tax plan will provide a new tax credit of $1,000 for 150 million American workers, eliminate income taxes altogether for over 7 million senior citizens making less than $50,000 per year, and provide an average of $500 to 10 million homeowners, most of whom earn less than $50,000 per year. * The independent Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center recently concluded that, "Senator McCain's tax cuts would primarily benefit those with very high incomes…. Many fewer households at the bottom of the income distribution would get tax cuts…. In marked contrast, Senator Obama offers much larger tax breaks to low- and middle-income taxpayers and would increase taxes on high-income taxpayers." (Read the full report: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/url.cfm?ID=411693 ) Please forward this to anyone you know who has received this smear email about Barack's economic plan. Together we can make sure these negative and divisive attacks don't affect this election. Thanks for your help, Obama for America |
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| Deleted User | Nov 2 2008, 07:39 PM Post #3414 |
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Deleted User
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Another brilliant analysis leading to the rather obvious question: If McCain really wanted to win and has $20 million in his bank account, why didn't he reschedule Bonnaroo for Election Day?
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| Deleted User | Nov 2 2008, 07:41 PM Post #3415 |
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I don't think many racists will even be voting. They are more talk, than walk. |
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| Monkey Chow | Nov 2 2008, 07:41 PM Post #3416 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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I'd like to get that in writing signed by Obama in front of two witnesses and a notary. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| maccascruff | Nov 3 2008, 01:15 AM Post #3417 |
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Sing the Changes
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I'd love to get it signed. Did you go to Fact Check?
Edited by maccascruff, Nov 3 2008, 01:21 AM.
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| Bill | Nov 3 2008, 01:19 AM Post #3418 |
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Perhaps you should ask them for it.
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| Bill | Nov 3 2008, 02:43 AM Post #3419 |
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![]() Fail. |
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| fab4fan | Nov 3 2008, 04:31 AM Post #3420 |
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Wouldn't we all! |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| fab4fan | Nov 3 2008, 04:41 AM Post #3421 |
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That report was investigated by the Secret Service and their investigation turned up only the "unbiased" reporter who "heard" kill him. Traitor was in response to the mentioning of the name of William Ayers. You know him, the man who dedicated his manifesto to ALL the political prisoners in the U.S. among who he lists, Sirhan Sirhan. |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Deleted User | Nov 3 2008, 04:46 AM Post #3422 |
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Perhaps we should round up all of William Ayers' current friends, neighbors, students and associates, just to be on the safe side?
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| fab4fan | Nov 3 2008, 04:50 AM Post #3423 |
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Its prediction time! All the Obama supporters need not worry about paper bags and hyperventilating. I predict I will have watched Obama's victory speech and still be asleep by midnight CST. By the way, all businesses in the south Loop where Grant Park is located have been requested to let their employees go home by 3 o'clock election day. The spotlight will be on Chicago Tuesday night and they want to use Obama's party as a first step push for the Olympics 2016. Obama was a mile from my house Halloween night. 40,000 were packed into my 'home' golf course's driving range. |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| fab4fan | Nov 3 2008, 04:52 AM Post #3424 |
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I don't think there is anything to worry about there. As to 'Joe the plumber's' friends, co-workers and neighbors, you might be on to something there. |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Bill | Nov 3 2008, 08:41 AM Post #3425 |
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That's your interpretation. What I, and millions of others saw was McCain ask "Who is the real Barack Obama?" and people in the crowd yell out, "Terrorist!" which prompted McCain to make a WTF? face. And in their desperation, some on the right have referred to the proximity of Obama's house to Ayers', so if you're just a mile away, maybe you're a terrorist too. ![]() |
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| Jacaranda | Nov 3 2008, 11:06 AM Post #3426 |
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I've always wondered about John. Just look at his avatar. After all, he may associate with someone who may have associated a washed-up old terrorist. If that isn't evidence of guilt what is?
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![]() "If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through." General Melchett, Blackadder Goes Forth | |
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| fab4fan | Nov 3 2008, 03:06 PM Post #3427 |
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![]() Jeez, let him get inaugurated!
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| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Bill | Nov 3 2008, 03:30 PM Post #3428 |
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The McCain campaign has complained about how presumptuous it is of Obama to be provoking foreign protests before the election is even over.
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| BeatleBarb | Nov 3 2008, 03:31 PM Post #3429 |
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I hope there are no problems when I go vote very early in the morning. I seem to remember last time that one of the clerks would not accept a mail-in envelope from a person. I will be handing my mother's ballot in that day. It clearly states on the envelope that this is acceptable. In any event, I'll have F. Lee Bailey on speed dial.
Edited by BeatleBarb, Nov 3 2008, 03:34 PM.
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| maccascruff | Nov 3 2008, 04:44 PM Post #3430 |
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Sing the Changes
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I don't know the law in California, but in Colorado mail-in ballots cannot be turned in at regular polling places. They have specific sites set up for those. |
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| maccascruff | Nov 3 2008, 04:46 PM Post #3431 |
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Sing the Changes
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I hope you are right about the early night, John. John, I am afraid that if Obama had the girls out trick or treating a mile from your house, you are most likely a terrorist by association.
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| Bag O' Nails | Nov 3 2008, 05:24 PM Post #3432 |
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MaccaMomma
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Anyone see McCain on SNL this week? McCain & Palin QVC And this one: Weekend Update |
![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Nov 3 2008, 05:38 PM Post #3433 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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You know, I feel for you both. It must be very difficult to accept that a President is capable of keeping their election promises - lord knows, after 8 years of being lied to and played as if you're all fools by George W. Bush, you have every reason to be cynical. I have a feeling that the policies aren't the only thing that will 'change'.
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| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| retrollama | Nov 3 2008, 05:39 PM Post #3434 |
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Our school is hoiding a mock election today, and most of the votes are going to Obama as well. |
| What a long, strange trip it's been.... | |
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| Bill | Nov 3 2008, 06:22 PM Post #3435 |
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Thanks Heidi - I hadn't seen the second one. McCain has great comic timing. What did you think of Affleck as Olbermann? |
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| Deleted User | Nov 3 2008, 07:20 PM Post #3436 |
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Thanks! I thought McCain was great on the show. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Nov 3 2008, 07:49 PM Post #3437 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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Republicans Vote On Nov. 4th, Democrats Vote A Day Later! Election officials in Virginia are warning voters about bogus fliers that are being passed out around the Commonwealth. The fliers claim Election Day for Republicans is Tuesday November 4th, but the voting period for Democrats is a day later, November 5th. The Virginia State Board of Elections says these fake fliers prove that some people will resort to voter fraud and intimidation, so voters need to stay informed and be wary of misinformation. Source |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Monkey Chow | Nov 3 2008, 08:16 PM Post #3438 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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Dude, that trick has been around, probably since cave man days. Anybody that falls for it doesn't deserve to vote and is probably a chad hanger. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| mspeel 007 | Nov 3 2008, 11:12 PM Post #3439 |
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I just read that Obama's Grandmother died How awful the day before the election!!!
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| [AND IN THE END.....THE LOVE YOU TAKE...IS EQUAL TO THE LOVE YOU MAKE | |
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| Monkey Chow | Nov 4 2008, 12:06 AM Post #3440 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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My condolences to Mr. Obama and his family. John McCain is 72 years old. He has, what?, 7 houses? If he wanted to, he and Cindy could spend the rest of their days riding around on a yacht collecting interest off their investments. Instead, they have been out 24/7 campaigning for the presidency of this great nation. Why? Because he loves America and all of its people and he believes he has the best leadership skills available at this time in this place in history for the US. That's the kind of guy I want in charge of my life when the chips are down. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| maccascruff | Nov 4 2008, 01:25 AM Post #3441 |
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Sing the Changes
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The same thing can be said of my candidate. Senator Obama has four years left on his senate term. He has a great career ahead of him. Obama is running for president because he loves this country, has the best leadership skills of the two and is the person I want in charge when things go wrong. I want somebody who thinks things through. Not somebody who seems so full of anger. That is part of why I voted for Obama. I feel bad for Obama, losing his beloved grandmother today. It must have been hard to have made his appearances today. However, if you are in politics, that is what you do. He did say in Florida, that he was in Ohio. That was shortly after he had been informed of her passing. |
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 01:54 AM Post #3442 |
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The one who wants to socialise the banks and changes his policy as often as he changes his socks? Yet you expect signatures and witnesses from Obama? Please get some consistency. There's only one reason anyone runs for president: Ego. |
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 02:00 AM Post #3443 |
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You know someone, somewhere has their priorities wrong when I have the day off today for a horse race (an actual one) yet Americans don't have the day off for a general election. Still, on the biggest betting day of the year, I'm in the mood. Any takers? |
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| beatlechick | Nov 4 2008, 02:46 AM Post #3444 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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I watched most of the show and now we know where McCain should go after losing the Presidency. RIP Grandma Toot http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081104/ap_on_el_pr/obama_grandmother
I think Toot can take some comfort in knowing that she helped to raise a very nice, strong, pretty loving young man. |
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| Mia Culpa | Nov 4 2008, 03:10 AM Post #3445 |
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1. Yes. 2. Polls are never accurate. But they do get lucky from time to time. Are they inclusive of all voters? No. How often have pollsters called you? 3. CNN International has been prObama since day 1. They even admitted that their primary coverage showed more negative-Clinton and positive-Obama. Do they do this to discourage McCainers? No. They do it for higher revenues. Obama's more television-friendly and more popular amongst foreigners. They don't care who wins as long as they get paid. 4. No. Obama will have a clear majority of electoral college votes on Tuesday. 5. No. 2000 is over. 6. No. Most Americans don't even vote. 7. 17. Mostly civil engineers. |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| Mia Culpa | Nov 4 2008, 03:12 AM Post #3446 |
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Impeach Obama! |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Nov 4 2008, 05:17 AM Post #3447 |
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MaccaMomma
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Some more fun! (turn up the sound)The Wizard of Washington |
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| Bag O' Nails | Nov 4 2008, 05:18 AM Post #3448 |
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MaccaMomma
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I thought he was really funny!
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![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| fab4fan | Nov 4 2008, 05:31 AM Post #3449 |
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Not only do we root for the same baseball team.....![]() GO BEARS! Edited by fab4fan, Nov 4 2008, 05:32 AM.
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| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| fab4fan | Nov 4 2008, 05:35 AM Post #3450 |
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edited
Edited by fab4fan, Nov 4 2008, 05:42 AM.
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| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| fab4fan | Nov 4 2008, 05:40 AM Post #3451 |
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Is it just me, or does this post have a creepy "Hitler Youth" feel to it?
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| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 05:41 AM Post #3452 |
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It's just you.
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| Bag O' Nails | Nov 4 2008, 05:44 AM Post #3453 |
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MaccaMomma
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I have a sick feeling in my stomach generally speaking. Will probably need an Ambien to go to sleep tonight.... |
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| fab4fan | Nov 4 2008, 05:44 AM Post #3454 |
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I obtained a copy of President-elect Obama's gift to the network anchors. (working the ref, indeed!)
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| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Nov 4 2008, 05:45 AM Post #3455 |
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MaccaMomma
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John, did you see this?
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![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| fab4fan | Nov 4 2008, 05:50 AM Post #3456 |
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Caretaker
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Yes, it was cute, especially the part where 'the swimmer' was giving Palin a ride home. Heidi, did you see that Sirhan Sirhan is a political prisoner?
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| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 05:52 AM Post #3457 |
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God forbid anyone should should take criticism to a campaign and ask for an explanation. What do they think America is - a democracy? |
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| Bag O' Nails | Nov 4 2008, 05:55 AM Post #3458 |
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MaccaMomma
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Sirhan Sirhan
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![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| wackadoo | Nov 4 2008, 06:08 AM Post #3459 |
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Thank you, john. Yes, it's creepy on all counts. I feel like I am back in kindergarten and just got turned into the principal. Are you also referring to the book by Ayers that was dedicated to Sirhan Sirhan? It all gets very creepy indeed. |
![]() RIP Steve. I love and miss you. | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Nov 4 2008, 06:15 AM Post #3460 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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Although I understand that I may be slightly biased towards Obama, I don't see why being organised and attempting to refute lies and get facts straight is 'creepy' or 'Hitler youth' (slightly offensive there, John, if you don't mind me saying). What I have particularly enjoyed about Obama's campaign is the transparency and the way Obama's staff have worked hard to tackle each and every obstacle the right wing media have attempted to put in his way. No vicious rumour or smear has lasted very long thanks to the hard work of Obama's campaign and, thankfully, it's not because they have great spin skills, it is because there is nothing you can find out about Barack that isn't above board. What you see above, in that e-mail, is a legitimate and highly organised attempt to fight dirty tricks with honesty and facts. I find it refreshing, not creepy. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| wackadoo | Nov 4 2008, 06:20 AM Post #3461 |
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Does that apply to the horrid treatment of Ms. Palin? I would say she has gone through some pretty severe slams from the Obama side and I haven't seen him do much to stop the smears. |
![]() RIP Steve. I love and miss you. | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Nov 4 2008, 06:26 AM Post #3462 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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What has Mrs. Palin done to stop the smears against Obama? That's right, absolutely nothing. In fact, she has done her 'darndest' to propagate some of the more sinister accusations. "Palling around with terrorists" anyone? Which smear or character assassination has Barack Obama been personally responsible for against Sarah Palin? Absolutely none. If you believe that Sarah Palin has a moral obligation to object to and refute smears made against Barack Obama on her website, only then can you reasonably expect Obama to do the same for Palin. What you have suggested simply isn't reasonable. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Deleted User | Nov 4 2008, 06:28 AM Post #3463 |
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Deleted User
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I think Mrs. Palin's 15 minutes of fame will officially be over this time tomorrow night; although, she will always remain one of the most colorful footnotes in political history. |
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| fab4fan | Nov 4 2008, 06:35 AM Post #3464 |
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Caretaker
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Okay, I stepped in it so let me explain. I read Linda's post earlier today. I thought it peculiar. I don't seem to remember anyone reporting our assassination thread to the Secret Service. Anyway in the afternoon on the radio I heard a host talk about his recent trip to Germany. While most people he talked to were for Obama they all were hesitant because of his great charisma. Amazing how the German psyche is still scarred after all these years. A different perspective if you will. (No one, especially me, is comparing BHO to the Fuerher!) Anyway (again) because of that I had Hitler on the brain and late at night tonight my post came out the way it did. Andy you're right Creepy Hitler youth is probably too offensive. Linda, I'm sorry! (Boy I hope she reads this apology before she posts on the original comment.) Then again Hitler comparisons have been rampant the last 8 years, at least now finally people are getting offended. Chickens coming home to roost maybe. There I go again. Someone stop me. Maybe I should just go to bed now.
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| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 06:43 AM Post #3465 |
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What's your point? If it means that much to you, just vote for John McCain and be done with it. I can promise you Jacques Rogge and it mates will be far more interested in what kind of Rolexes and single malts they get in their showbags than where the president came from. |
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| fab4fan | Nov 4 2008, 06:45 AM Post #3466 |
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Caretaker
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In about 5 hours I'll be out the door to cast my vote for President-elect Barack Hussein Obama. For my fellow conservatives on the board I offer you the only solace I can about the outcome you dread later today: at least you won't have to deal with this in 4 years.
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| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 06:46 AM Post #3467 |
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Maryanne, I'm sure you understand that this is a public forum that anyone can read. It's not a private party. Anything you wouldn't want others to see should not be posted here. And why would you be offended that someone has put your concerns to the campaign and received a civil and detailed answer? It just goes to show that you could have done the same if you had wanted to. ![]() Equally, you could take anything that has been said here regarding the McCain/Palin campaign to them for confirmation or debunking. What's so bad about actually asking the campaign instead of playing games of "my faceless rumourmonger is better than your faceless rumourmonger"? Edited by Bill, Nov 4 2008, 06:52 AM.
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Nov 4 2008, 06:53 AM Post #3468 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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Thanks for the explanation, John - what you've said makes sense in context. I think rather than 'reporting' the e-mail Linda saw on here, she was responding to a message on the Obama website asking for any viral e-mails to be sent in so that, if they hadn't encountered them before, they could generate a response to them and, if they had seen them before, they could give the sender a reply and rebuttal to the points raised in the e-mail. I think a lot of Obama's opponents have attempted to exploit a certain section of America's society's ignorance about him and done their level best to e-mail as many of these lies (muslim, terrorist, etc.) to as many people as they can. I only see it as admirable and wise for the Obama campaign to tackle these e-mails head on with antidote e-mails of their own. This campaign probably wouldn't be where it is right now without their use of the internet and the media to organise and spread the word. By the way, a long time ago, I made it my own personal goal not to compare anyone to Hitler or the Nazi Party ever again. Some people do make it a little easier to than others, though.
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| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| fab4fan | Nov 4 2008, 06:56 AM Post #3469 |
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Caretaker
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The point Bill is that it seems strange that a regular guy asks Obama a question and the unbiased media skewers the guy for days on end. Then you have someone who blew up the Pentagon and no one even seeks him out for an interview. If you weren't so in the tank with your Bush geniuses rants I think even you would see the irony of that. Does the fact that I'm voting for Obama because of other more important issues mean I have to become a doofus and ignore blatant bias? |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 07:00 AM Post #3470 |
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Also, for those seeking a leader with balls (metaphorically), I would think they would admire Obama's "bring it on!" approach to anyone who might have anything bad to say about him - as opposed to the "I don't want to talk about that," reaction we've seen from both sides for decades. Moreover, he hasn't sought to personally destroy anyone who might say such things about him. He's just set them straight, nothing more, nothing less. It's a frank and open response that augers well for how he would deal with anyone who might seek to harm America. A swift, efficient, measured response. Wouldn't that be a change for the better? |
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 07:05 AM Post #3471 |
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Well, explain to me what the issue is here. What the hell has Bill Ayers got to do with anything? Is he on the campaign committee? No. Is he on the transition committee? No. Has he been an advisor to Obama in any way? No. Did he write Obama's first book? No. So what, in short, has this got to do with anything? You're arguing a false equivalence. The blatant bias that you're ignoring is that of those who are trying to link Obama and Ayers. As for Joe the Posterchild, he wasn't skewered for asking a question, he was skewered because the McCain campaign tried to turn him into a celebrity before they knew anything about him - which shows they don't learn from their mistakes. In any case, he's got himself an agent now so he can cry all the way to the bank - proving that America is still the land of opportunity. Edited by Bill, Nov 4 2008, 07:09 AM.
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 07:10 AM Post #3472 |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Nov 4 2008, 07:14 AM Post #3473 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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I think Godwin's Law was instrumental in me making that particular decision. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| fab4fan | Nov 4 2008, 07:34 AM Post #3474 |
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Caretaker
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You're such a proper chap, its good of you to try to understand me and let me slide, so to speak. I hope Linda will understand too. The Obama campaign has been brilliant in its focus and efficiency. I hate to tell you though it doesn't take much to poke holes in its tax response e-mail. First off, no where does it clarify that the numbers it uses are based on post-expiration of the 2001 & 2003 tax cuts. (Notice I didn't call them the Bush tax cuts, or as you call them the Reagan-Bush tax cuts. Tax cuts are enacted by congress, not the president. And just for your benefit let me inform you that the tax cuts when Kennedy was president, enacted by a democratic congress, swallowed your Reagan-Bush tax cuts whole.) Then the claim that 95% of American workers will receive tax cuts. Again not true. The bottom 40% will be receiving welfare checks, or income redistribution if you will, because you can't cut someone's taxes if they aren't paying any. Futhermore, all this focus on tax cuts is just a way to confuse all us peons. Obama will get my respect if before his and Michelle's money goes into a blind trust while he's president he takes his wealth out of all the tax deferred investments he is currently in. Didn't it ever cross your mind while Clinton was crooning how he didn't need the tax breaks he received in 2001 & 2003 what did he do with the money he didn't need? I didn't see him donate that money back to the treasury, did you? Not sure if Maryann's post had any of the Obama is a muslim stuff. I think it did. Why wasn't that responded to? I think you'll remember early on I thought it was a lost opportunity for Obama to say, yes I was raised as a muslim when I was younger, and that gives me a unique perspective on the challenges we face now. You are aware that Obama is more Arab than white or black? Oh and his bloodline is slave owner not slave. And yes I'm still voting for him. Now its only about 4 hours away. |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| fab4fan | Nov 4 2008, 07:41 AM Post #3475 |
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Caretaker
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Thanks for sharing. Where have you guys been the last 8 years?
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| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 07:45 AM Post #3476 |
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Fair comment. I first became aware of it a couple of years ago. There are certain tactics and phrases that give one away as going for the cheap shot and I didn't want to be like that. I like to think that I've learnt a bit in the last 8 years. |
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 07:50 AM Post #3477 |
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Not true. Kenya is not an Arab nation. Neither is the US. Not that that has anything to do with the issues or his abilities. |
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| fab4fan | Nov 4 2008, 07:54 AM Post #3478 |
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Caretaker
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Is your bloodline tied exclusively to your country? |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 07:57 AM Post #3479 |
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And here's how they did it: http://www.theage.com.au/world/prankster-reveals-how-he-duped-palin-20081104-5hgk.html?page=-1
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 07:59 AM Post #3480 |
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What's it to you? Please don't make me describe obvious ethnic appearances. It comes down to who you believe, Rush Limbaugh or your lyin' eyes.
Edited by Bill, Nov 4 2008, 08:00 AM.
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| Monkey Chow | Nov 4 2008, 11:48 AM Post #3481 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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McCain: The one with actual experience. The one that understands capitalism. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 01:02 PM Post #3482 |
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| Monkey Chow | Nov 4 2008, 01:43 PM Post #3483 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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At least he knows to let it exist. All Obama knows is tax and spend. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 01:48 PM Post #3484 |
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Warren Buffett begs to differ. McCain did nothing but let it exist and assume it would take care of itself. How did that work out? |
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| Monkey Chow | Nov 4 2008, 01:54 PM Post #3485 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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It will work out fine and correct itself if allowed to operate. I can only speculate as to what Buffett's motivations are. By the way, your leftist rantings are what convinced me that a vote for Obama was a vote for a major wrong turn in this nation. Edited by Monkey Chow, Nov 4 2008, 02:00 PM.
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| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 01:59 PM Post #3486 |
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He understands capitalism, that's for sure. |
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| mspeel 007 | Nov 4 2008, 02:13 PM Post #3487 |
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Bill....your my hero!!!!!!!
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| [AND IN THE END.....THE LOVE YOU TAKE...IS EQUAL TO THE LOVE YOU MAKE | |
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 02:18 PM Post #3488 |
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Your labels mean nothing to me. Your only definition of "leftist" is someone who opposes the discredited right-wing ideology of the Republican party. Is Colin Powell a leftist? Is Peggy Noonan a leftist? You know nothing about me. If it makes you feel better to attach labels to those who challenge your assumptions, and show how they just don't add up, then go right ahead. Facts are stubborn things that don't change simply by throwing an "-ist" at them. Edited by Bill, Nov 4 2008, 02:24 PM.
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| fab4fan | Nov 4 2008, 02:27 PM Post #3489 |
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Caretaker
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That was rather exciting! Best line at the polling place from somewhere behind me in line: "The line wraps around like Disneyworld." "Let's hope we don't end up with Mickey Mouse." Took me 57 minutes to vote. 4 years ago it was 8 minutes. Same time of day. Lot of people leaving and planning on coming back later. |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Monkey Chow | Nov 4 2008, 02:28 PM Post #3490 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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I'd say Colin Powell is an opportunist and a centrist. You are a leftist. Don't know Peggy Noonan. I have to work now. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| Bill | Nov 4 2008, 02:32 PM Post #3491 |
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You don't even know what it means. |
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| retrollama | Nov 4 2008, 03:38 PM Post #3492 |
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If it's true that children parrot their parents' opinions, then Obama has already won the election by a landslide -- at least in my school building! Here are the results of our mock election: A total of 252 students voted: 61 chose McCain, and 191 voted for Obama! |
| What a long, strange trip it's been.... | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Nov 4 2008, 03:46 PM Post #3493 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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Leftist: (noun) a member of the political Left or a person sympathetic to its views You say it like it's a bad thing, Ron. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Mindy | Nov 4 2008, 03:56 PM Post #3494 |
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I don't consider Bill's posts to be rantings. Anyways, I am leaving in a bit to vote. Like I mentioned before, I predict this will be a very close race, there won't be any landslide victory. But I guess we shall see. I've been listening to both sides (parties) as I like to keep an open mind, but I have to say I really disagree with what a lot of Republicans have to say. I've been hearing people say that Obama is going to cut everyone including welfare recipients a check, and that his policies are "trickle up economics." When/where did Obama supposedly say he was going to handout checks? I'd like to know. What I do know is that he wants to increase minimum wage, and that he believes nobody working full time should be living in poverty. I wish more people would focus on facts than smears, and stop all the bashing on both sides. |
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| BeatleBarb | Nov 4 2008, 04:15 PM Post #3495 |
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6th in line at 6:45 at my polling place which is the fire station. They took me out of line for some odd reason and I voted 2nd! I was also able to hand in my mother's ballot, except they did seem a little confused about it all. They tried to have me sign on my mother's line so I had to explain I wasn't Hazel. I'll give them a break as we were the first there. At least there were cute firefighters to look at during my whole 15 minutes wait! |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Nov 4 2008, 04:33 PM Post #3496 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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Couldn't agree more, Holly. Good luck at the voting station - hope the queues aren't too long.
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| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Rose | Nov 4 2008, 05:20 PM Post #3497 |
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Well, here's another clue for you all, the Walrus was Paul...
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I went in at around 9:15am...pretty much walked in, voted and walked out. It was GREAT! In the past I have had to wait ...but I purposely stayed away from the 'busy' times. Glad its over and done with. |
![]() "I'm in awe of McCartney. He's about the only one that I am in awe of. He can do it all. And he's never let up... He's just so damn effortless." ~ Bob Dylan | |
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| Deleted User | Nov 4 2008, 05:22 PM Post #3498 |
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Deleted User
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I have nothing but respect for McCain, in spite of his somewhat nasty campaign. He gave as much to America as anyone could and he will go down fighting like the soldier he is, regardless of the odds against him. This will be a very minor setback for someone that lived with the daily threat of torture for five and half years and he will always be remembered as a great American hero and true patriot who gave his country all that he had until there was nothing left to give. I still say he would make a great Secretary of Defense in anybody's administration. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 4 2008, 05:23 PM Post #3499 |
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Deleted User
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The voice of reason and wisdom as always. Way to go Holly G.
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| ThirdHarmony | Nov 4 2008, 05:50 PM Post #3500 |
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It's quite something. On my way home from work today, everywhere I heard people discussing tonight's election. In the office building as well. Some overheard snippets: "I just rearranged my work hours. No sleep tonight." "I think good leaders are defined by the quality of staff they hire, and McCain's campaign team has seemed horrible!" "I'm going to sleep through it all. If it turns out bad, it's better to get the shock over with quickly in the morning than throughout a painful, drawn-out night. Myself, I'm off to the store for some extra comfort food for the small hours. Go Obama! Edited by ThirdHarmony, Nov 4 2008, 05:51 PM.
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"My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson "Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. | |
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I would guess because of the nature of the university itself, that polling place will have voted heavily for Obama, as will my county. We have to outvote Colorado Springs and Focus on the Family to win this state.






How awful the day before the election!!!



Good luck at the voting station - hope the queues aren't too long.



2:01 PM Jul 11