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2008 U.S. Presidential Election
Topic Started: Feb 22 2007, 05:49 AM (37,418 Views)
Bill
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otlset
Oct 13 2008, 09:59 PM
maccascruff
Oct 13 2008, 06:21 PM
The anger came from your original post. It was full of hate, Mary Ann. That cannot be denied.
There is a notable difference between hate, and suspicion. I saw only the latter in Mary Ann's post, no hate, and feel compelled to defend her here.

MY great fear about Obama supporters is contained in the following opinion piece new today. He explains it better than I could...

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/13/the-coming-thugocracy/print/

And I'd like to add, I'm extremely offended, by the hateful Palin flow-chart shown at the bottom of your posts.
Thugocracy?

Give me a break!

How many Obama supporters have gone to rallies and shouted about killing McCain? That's all you need to know.
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Bill
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fab4fan
Oct 13 2008, 11:06 PM
Had to comment on ThirdHarmony's post. (Which by the way are always a pleasure to read. Amazing how in tune some people are with the American political process. As someone else said, more Americans should be like Bill, Andy, (well to a point :P ;) ) and ThirdHarmony.)

The 60 Senator thing is huge! And scary! It is the first thing that is giving me pause about voting for Obama. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi with carte blanche. No wonder the market is tanking.
Don't puddle up on me now, China!

This crisis has been warned about for longer than the Democratic-controlled congress and if Pelosi and Reid have proven one thing, it's that they'll always cave in to Bush - you don't have them as an excuse.

Speaking to the double standards that have been alleged, I think people on both sides are being deliberately hypersensitive to one side while turning a blind eye to the other.

Regarding the assassination of Bush, one was a thread based on a fictitious movie (one I haven't seen and don't care to) and the other talked not of assassination but execution. I'm sure those among us who favour capital punishment would argue that there's a difference. And with people as respectable as Vincent Bugliosi (who prosecuted Charles Mason) charging that Bush is guilty of murder, then that's a conversation worth having, although I wouldn't open with the penalty.


Heidi, satirists don't make Palin look like an dumbass. Palin makes Palin look like an dumbass and satirists state the obvious. Tina Fey could read verbatim transcripts of things Palin has said and people would laugh because it's Tina Fey but still applaud Sarah Palin for saying them. Since Barack Obama has not made a fool of himself in such spectacular fashion, making him look stupid is more of a stretch.

I'm glad to read you saying that Obama is not a terrorist. That's not what you were saying a few months back. Sorry, I'll rephrase that - it's now what you were implying by way of links to extremist sites.


Finally, a word about guilt by association.
The Bush family were always, and remain to this day, close business associates of the bin Laden family.

Read into that what you will.
If you're smart enough to pick the flaw in that reasoning, then you're smart enough to pick the difference between an S and a B.
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ThirdHarmony
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fab4fan
Oct 13 2008, 11:06 PM
Had to comment on ThirdHarmony's post. (Which by the way are always a pleasure to read. Amazing how in tune some people are with the American political process. As someone else said, more Americans should be like Bill, Andy, (well to a point :P ;) ) and ThirdHarmony.)

The 60 Senator thing is huge! And scary! It is the first thing that is giving me pause about voting for Obama. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi with carte blanche. No wonder the market is tanking.
:blush: Thanks John for your kind words - but really, I'm just a geek when it comes to US politics. It's just so "gosh-darnit" entertaining and terrifying at the same time. It's like Space Mountain (without the safety harness)! I try to keep up with the various countries' politics here in Europe as well, but it isn't nearly as attention-grabbing. More like the mad tea cups, most likely to leave you nauseous at the end.

(before anyone thinks I'm being flippant about the gravity of the matter, I do take these things very seriously, perhaps overly so, but I find a bit of comic relief is required to get through the day).

As for the markets, nice to see the "Swedish model" being somewhat employed over there to counter the crisis. It really served us well in the early 90s when we got ourselves into a very similar mess. ^_^
Edited by ThirdHarmony, Oct 13 2008, 11:54 PM.
"My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson

"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
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Jacaranda
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Bag O' Nails
Oct 13 2008, 10:43 PM
2. Interesting article from the Washington Post. ;)

Funny that I was thinking of this example just as I was reading the article....
"Corporate liberals have done their share in shutting down anti-liberal speech, too. "Saturday Night Live" ran a spoof of the financial crisis that skewered Democrats like House Financial Services Chairman Barney Frank and liberal contributors Herbert and Marion Sandler, who sold toxic-waste-filled Golden West to Wachovia Bank for $24 billion. Kind of surprising, but not for long. The tape of the broadcast disappeared from NBC's Web site and was replaced with another that omitted the references to Mr. Frank and the Sandlers. Evidently NBC and its parent, General Electric, don't want people to hear speech that attacks liberals."


This article comes from The Washington Times. Oh, please, Heidi, don't confuse The Washington Post with The Washington Times, which is a Unification Church-funded conservative paper founded by Rev. Moon. :wacko:
Edited by Jacaranda, Oct 13 2008, 11:55 PM.
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"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through." General Melchett, Blackadder Goes Forth




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Bill
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Now if I might make a comment pertaining to issues and judgement.... :whistle:


The reactions of both the current and the aspiring Republican presidents, to me, betray a continual lurching between denial and panic.
Warning: the next sentence will confront you with a harsh fact.
The threat of terrorism did NOT change on September 11th. The threat was always there, it's just that that was the day when many people woke up to the fact. History has shown that the Bush administration was warned about terrorist threats but chose not to turn their attention to it - that is, until the day they could no longer ignore it when it suddenly became the only thing on their minds. Overnight, terrorism went from being taken off the agenda to being the defining struggle of our times.

Then there's the economic crisis. And we see exactly the same behaviour. Right up until the day before the collapses, both George Bush and John McCain were saying the fundamentals of the economy were strong, despite a multitude of warnings that it was anything but strong. Then, overnight, it suddenly became the worst crisis since 1929.

These things did not happen overnight. They brewed for years and they were warned about but government ignored the warnings until it was too late.
So on both national security and economics, Republicans have consistently been a day late and a trillion dollars short.

It seems to me that if you want someone who will slam the stable door shut the loudest after the horse has bolted, then vote Republican. If you want to keep the horse, then vote for someone who noticed the latch was faulty before it failed.
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Bag O' Nails
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Jacaranda
Oct 13 2008, 11:54 PM

This article comes from The Washington Times. Oh, please, Heidi, don't confuse The Washington Post with The Washington Times, which is a Unification Church-funded conservative paper founded by Rev. Moon. :wacko:
Ooops...my bad. :blush: Thanks for the correction!
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Bill
Oct 13 2008, 11:49 PM
Heidi, satirists don't make Palin look like an dumbass. Palin makes Palin look like an dumbass and satirists state the obvious. Tina Fey could read verbatim transcripts of things Palin has said and people would laugh because it's Tina Fey but still applaud Sarah Palin for saying them. Since Barack Obama has not made a fool of himself in such spectacular fashion, making him look stupid is more of a stretch.

I'm glad to read you saying that Obama is not a terrorist. That's not what you were saying a few months back. Sorry, I'll rephrase that - it's now what you were implying by way of links to extremist sites.


Sorry, but NBC is not a pro-conservative network and they would never make anyone they like (aka Obama) look or sound dumb. You can take anyone's words and make fun of them or make them sound ignorant if you don't like or agree with their political agenda! To repeat my case in point, SNL edited their spoofs to cater to the insulted liberals involved.
(Corporate liberals have done their share in shutting down anti-liberal speech, too. "Saturday Night Live" ran a spoof of the financial crisis that skewered Democrats like House Financial Services Chairman Barney Frank and liberal contributors Herbert and Marion Sandler, who sold toxic-waste-filled Golden West to Wachovia Bank for $24 billion. Kind of surprising, but not for long. The tape of the broadcast disappeared from NBC's Web site and was replaced with another that omitted the references to Mr. Frank and the Sandlers. Evidently NBC and its parent, General Electric, don't want people to hear speech that attacks liberals.")

To your dismay, there is still a huge number of us "dumb" people out there that like Sarah Palin! I don't remember "laughing" at some of those things that Tina Fey mocked when Palin said them. Anybody can take some of the words someone says and make them sound stupid!

Regarding Obama's possible links to terrorism, I'm so glad that you re-phrased your comment about my now enlightenment!
Edited by Bag O' Nails, Oct 14 2008, 12:27 AM.
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Bag O' Nails
Oct 13 2008, 10:43 PM
On SNL, the continued parodies and mockings of the likes of Sarah Palin still abound, but the ones regarding anything "Democratic" conveniently disappear or are edited... :ponder:
Another thought about that...I have yet to see a SNL parody of Obama making him look like a dumbass... :blink:

SNL - Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton (Original) (0:34)

SNL - Obama 3am Phone Call (6:17)

Tracey Morgan - Black is the New President (1:53)

Obama and Hillary on SNL - THE BEST CLIPS (3:20)

SNL - Presidential Debate McCain and Obama go head to head (9:09)

SNL: 2nd Debate Obama and McCain debate the issues; Featuring Bill Murray and Chris Parnell (9:35)


Here is a possible reason why NBC hasn't been more aggressive towards Obama:

Obama's SNL Racial Skits (1:14)
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Bill
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Okay, let's test that theory. Take something Obama said at the last debate and make them sound stupid.
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Bag O' Nails
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LapisLee
Oct 14 2008, 12:28 AM
Bag O' Nails
Oct 13 2008, 10:43 PM
On SNL, the continued parodies and mockings of the likes of Sarah Palin still abound, but the ones regarding anything "Democratic" conveniently disappear or are edited... :ponder:
Another thought about that...I have yet to see a SNL parody of Obama making him look like a dumbass... :blink:

SNL - Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton (Original) (0:34)

SNL - Obama 3am Phone Call (6:17)

Tracey Morgan - Black is the New President (1:53)

Obama and Hillary on SNL - THE BEST CLIPS (3:20)

SNL - Presidential Debate McCain and Obama go head to head (9:09)

SNL: 2nd Debate Obama and McCain debate the issues; Featuring Bill Murray and Chris Parnell (9:35)


Here is a possible reason why NBC hasn't been more aggressive towards Obama:

Obama's SNL Racial Skits (1:14)
Well, thanks for all your "research" but all of those spoofs came from early spring when the race was between Obama and Hillary; many of those were to make Hillary look idiotic and didn't do too much to make Obama look bad. And that third one didn't even have an Obama look-alike and IMO was very racist!


The last one you posted just proved my point to a degree...when mocking Obama...let's be careful how we do it!
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Bag O' Nails
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Bill
Oct 14 2008, 12:29 AM
Okay, let's test that theory. Take something Obama said at the last debate and make them sound stupid.
Unfortunately I'm not a satirist.
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Bill
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I know. :P

But you just said anybody could do it. I figured you were speaking literally.
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maccascruff
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Bill
Oct 13 2008, 11:49 PM
Heidi, satirists don't make Palin look like an dumbass. Palin makes Palin look like an dumbass and satirists state the obvious. Tina Fey could read verbatim transcripts of things Palin has said and people would laugh because it's Tina Fey but still applaud Sarah Palin for saying them. Since Barack Obama has not made a fool of himself in such spectacular fashion, making him look stupid is more of a stretch.

Heidi, did you watch Palin at the vice presidential debate when she chose from the beginning not to answer the moderator's questions, but to make it what she wanted it to be? Palin and her inability to think on her feet and now to acknowledge that she was not totally exonerated in the Troopergate report make her an easy target for Palin.

Obama has been very careful to give the comedians fodder for their skits.

As for the Palin flow chart, it is humorous--and also true, so it stays until after the election.
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fab4fan
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LapisLee
Oct 14 2008, 12:28 AM
The end of this clip when Bill Murray asks a question of the candidates is HILARIOUS!

:devil:
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BeatleBarb
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That was pretty funny, John. "Tom Brokaw" sure did sound/look like Tom!
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Bag O' Nails
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Bill
Oct 14 2008, 12:57 AM
I know. :P

But you just said anybody could do it. I figured you were speaking literally.
You got me there! :giggle:

I'll have to think long and hard wearing my satirist mask; maybe I'll think of something! :P
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Bag O' Nails
Oct 14 2008, 12:46 AM
LapisLee
Oct 14 2008, 12:28 AM
Bag O' Nails
Oct 13 2008, 10:43 PM
On SNL, the continued parodies and mockings of the likes of Sarah Palin still abound, but the ones regarding anything "Democratic" conveniently disappear or are edited... :ponder:
Another thought about that...I have yet to see a SNL parody of Obama making him look like a dumbass... :blink:

SNL - Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton (Original) (0:34)

SNL - Obama 3am Phone Call (6:17)

SNL - Tracey Morgan - Black is the New President (1:53)

SNL - Obama and Hillary THE BEST CLIPS (3:20)

2008-09-26 SNL 1st Presidential Debate Obama and McCain (9:09)

2008-10-7 SNL 2nd Presidential Debate Obama and McCain (featuring Bill Murray and Chris Parnell) (9:35)


Here is a possible reason why NBC hasn't been more aggressive towards Obama:

Obama's SNL Racial Skits (1:14)
Well, thanks for all your "research" but all of those spoofs came from early spring when the race was between Obama and Hillary; many of those were to make Hillary look idiotic and didn't do too much to make Obama look bad. And that third one didn't even have an Obama look-alike and IMO was very racist! The last one you posted just proved my point to a degree...when mocking Obama...let's be careful how we do it!
Sorry. I was just trying to be helpful. You were right. It is hard to find SNL skits that make fun of Obama, but here is something very scary I am sure you also don't agree with.

The McCain-Palin Mob (4:24)
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scottycatt
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Very scary. And very sad. :(




Why?
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Mindy
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Quote:
 
Sorry. I was just trying to be helpful. You were right. It is hard to find SNL skits that make fun of Obama, but here is something very scary I am sure you also don't agree with.

The McCain-Palin Mob (4:24)
I saw the McCain/Palin Mob on youtube. Obama's a terrorist because it's "in his bloodline" , "it's in his name"? It's scary that's the way some people think.


Edited by Mindy, Oct 14 2008, 03:17 AM.
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HollyGolightly
Oct 14 2008, 03:09 AM
Quote:
 
Sorry. I was just trying to be helpful. You were right. It is hard to find SNL skits that make fun of Obama, but here is something very scary I am sure you also don't agree with.

The McCain-Palin Mob (4:24)
I saw the McCain/Palin Mob on youtube. Obama's a terrorist because it's "in his bloodline" , "it's in his name"? It's scary that's the way some people think.


Yeeah, I stole that from a girl on another forum that looks a lot like you... :whistle:

Here are more voices of reason from Strongsville, Ohio.

Part 2 - The McCain-Palin Mob in Strongsville, Ohio (5:20)
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Bag O' Nails
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MaccaMomma
maccascruff
Oct 14 2008, 01:37 AM
Bill
Oct 13 2008, 11:49 PM
Heidi, satirists don't make Palin look like an dumbass. Palin makes Palin look like an dumbass and satirists state the obvious. Tina Fey could read verbatim transcripts of things Palin has said and people would laugh because it's Tina Fey but still applaud Sarah Palin for saying them. Since Barack Obama has not made a fool of himself in such spectacular fashion, making him look stupid is more of a stretch.

Heidi, did you watch Palin at the vice presidential debate when she chose from the beginning not to answer the moderator's questions, but to make it what she wanted it to be? Palin and her inability to think on her feet and now to acknowledge that she was not totally exonerated in the Troopergate report make her an easy target for Palin.

Obama has been very careful to give the comedians fodder for their skits.

As for the Palin flow chart, it is humorous--and also true, so it stays until after the election.
Linda,
Yes, I did watch that debate and frankly, I thought she did very well, even if she didn't answer every question the moderator asked! Overall I thought she performed satisfactorily, but the press/SNL decided to pick her apart and pull out some of her quirky remarks and mannerisms to make fun of her. And some of her quirkiness is part of her persona; but it's OK to make fun of that, right? ;) As long as no one makes fun of the fact that she's a woman or that Obama is African-American....then all's fair in love and war, right? ^_^

I don't care about your flowchart; actually I don't even look at it! ;)
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Mindy
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LapisLee
Oct 14 2008, 03:37 AM
HollyGolightly
Oct 14 2008, 03:09 AM
Quote:
 
Sorry. I was just trying to be helpful. You were right. It is hard to find SNL skits that make fun of Obama, but here is something very scary I am sure you also don't agree with.

The McCain-Palin Mob (4:24)
I saw the McCain/Palin Mob on youtube. Obama's a terrorist because it's "in his bloodline" , "it's in his name"? It's scary that's the way some people think.


Yeeah, I stole that from a girl on another forum that looks a lot like you... :whistle:

Here are more voices of reason from Strongsville, Ohio.

Part 2 - The McCain-Palin Mob in Strongsville, Ohio (5:20)
I didn't see that there was a part two. The second video, I feel that the guy asking the questions is provoking people, and I don't like that he asks the black guy why he's not voting for Obama. It's ridiculous to think that all blacks should or will vote for him.

I want to make it clear, I certainly don't think that all McCain supporters are racist or believe Obama is a terrorist, but those people are definitely out there. It's sad that in 2008 ethnicity still matters, when there are so many more important issues.
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Bag O' Nails
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MaccaMomma
Lapis,
I have issues with those videos. -_-

It's obvious that people on both sides have their extremist-type supporters. The interviewer obviously was there to entrap people into saying Obama was a terrorist. I wonder how many "interviews" he had to do to come up with the few minutes of "hatred" videos to post on YouTube to give the appearance that all McCain/Palin supporters were morons.
This interviewer also played the race card by asking the one African American man why he was voting for McCain when he himself was an African American! Now if that wasn't a racist question...I don't know what is! :blink:

I just can't give credence to these types of YouTube videos that do nothing but try to legitimize ugliness. :no:
Edited by Bag O' Nails, Oct 14 2008, 04:02 AM.
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Bill
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I agree that such a question is racially charged and out of order, but unless there are people at Obama rallies calling out "traitor," "terrorist," and "kill him!" about McCain, then it's not fair to say that both sides have their extremist supporters.
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fab4fan
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Bill
Oct 14 2008, 04:49 AM
I agree that such a question is racially charged and out of order, but unless there are people at Obama rallies calling out "traitor," "terrorist," and "kill him!" about McCain, then it's not fair to say that both sides have their extremist supporters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQalRPQ8stI
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MaccaMomma
fab4fan
Oct 14 2008, 04:54 AM
Bill
Oct 14 2008, 04:49 AM
I agree that such a question is racially charged and out of order, but unless there are people at Obama rallies calling out "traitor," "terrorist," and "kill him!" about McCain, then it's not fair to say that both sides have their extremist supporters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQalRPQ8stI
Thanks, John. You just proved my point. :yes:
At least there was no interviewer trying to trick people into making false statements about McCain...the peoples use of their fingers showed exactly how they felt! :whistle:
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Bill
Oct 14 2008, 04:49 AM
I agree that such a question is racially charged and out of order, but unless there are people at Obama rallies calling out "traitor," "terrorist," and "kill him!" about McCain, then it's not fair to say that both sides have their extremist supporters.
I would venture to say that the famous Hollywood big-mouths who use their fame and money to promote "their" candidate qualify as extremist supporters. :whistle:
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Bill
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What a pathetic bunch of crybabies!

For a start, if you're going to say "FACT:" then the next thing you say ought to be a demonstrable fact.

Why would anyone do such a provocative thing in the first place if not to go crying about how hard done by they are. The video speaks of being tarred and feathered. I saw no tar or feathers, just people booing. Oh, Heavens to Betsy, they were BOOING! :baby:

And do they know the political persuasions of anyone they showed in the clip? No, they do not. And why didn't they show the faces of any of these "patriots" in the McCain march?

Since that video showed no-one calling McCain a traitor or a terrorist or calling for his death, I'd say my point still stands.
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Bill
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Bag O' Nails
Oct 14 2008, 05:15 AM
Bill
Oct 14 2008, 04:49 AM
I agree that such a question is racially charged and out of order, but unless there are people at Obama rallies calling out "traitor," "terrorist," and "kill him!" about McCain, then it's not fair to say that both sides have their extremist supporters.
I would venture to say that the famous Hollywood big-mouths who use their fame and money to promote "their" candidate qualify as extremist supporters. :whistle:
Name one who has called for McCain's death.

People can boo anyone they like but when they start yelling "kill him," that changes things.

How do you trick someone into making false statements? Who is that stupid?
Edited by Bill, Oct 14 2008, 05:24 AM.
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Bag O' Nails
Oct 14 2008, 12:23 AM
Bill
Oct 13 2008, 11:49 PM
Heidi, satirists don't make Palin look like an dumbass. Palin makes Palin look like an dumbass and satirists state the obvious. Tina Fey could read verbatim transcripts of things Palin has said and people would laugh because it's Tina Fey but still applaud Sarah Palin for saying them. Since Barack Obama has not made a fool of himself in such spectacular fashion, making him look stupid is more of a stretch.

I'm glad to read you saying that Obama is not a terrorist. That's not what you were saying a few months back. Sorry, I'll rephrase that - it's now what you were implying by way of links to extremist sites.


Sorry, but NBC is not a pro-conservative network and they would never make anyone they like (aka Obama) look or sound dumb. You can take anyone's words and make fun of them or make them sound ignorant if you don't like or agree with their political agenda! To repeat my case in point, SNL edited their spoofs to cater to the insulted liberals involved.
(Corporate liberals have done their share in shutting down anti-liberal speech, too. "Saturday Night Live" ran a spoof of the financial crisis that skewered Democrats like House Financial Services Chairman Barney Frank and liberal contributors Herbert and Marion Sandler, who sold toxic-waste-filled Golden West to Wachovia Bank for $24 billion. Kind of surprising, but not for long. The tape of the broadcast disappeared from NBC's Web site and was replaced with another that omitted the references to Mr. Frank and the Sandlers. Evidently NBC and its parent, General Electric, don't want people to hear speech that attacks liberals.")

To your dismay, there is still a huge number of us "dumb" people out there that like Sarah Palin! I don't remember "laughing" at some of those things that Tina Fey mocked when Palin said them. Anybody can take some of the words someone says and make them sound stupid!

Regarding Obama's possible links to terrorism, I'm so glad that you re-phrased your comment about my now enlightenment!
I have to say that the only thing relevant that SNL has done the last few years is the Palin imitation. They have done, as has MadTV, Barack Obama but just can't pull it off very well.
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Bag O' Nails
Oct 14 2008, 05:15 AM
Bill
Oct 14 2008, 04:49 AM
I agree that such a question is racially charged and out of order, but unless there are people at Obama rallies calling out "traitor," "terrorist," and "kill him!" about McCain, then it's not fair to say that both sides have their extremist supporters.
I would venture to say that the famous Hollywood big-mouths who use their fame and money to promote "their" candidate qualify as extremist supporters. :whistle:
So I guess people like Chuck Norris,Jon Voight, Kelsey Grammar, Gary Sinise, and Dennis Miller (WWWWAHHHHH?!? :blink: ), Tim Allen, producer Jerry Bruckheimer, and possibly Adam Sandler are also extremists as they (not sure about Adam Sandler but he did support Guiliani) support McCain! Not many people are sure about Angelina Jolie as she has gone on record stating she likes McCain. I think Brad is an Obamaite, however.
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Oct 14 2008, 04:54 AM
Bill
Oct 14 2008, 04:49 AM
I agree that such a question is racially charged and out of order, but unless there are people at Obama rallies calling out "traitor," "terrorist," and "kill him!" about McCain, then it's not fair to say that both sides have their extremist supporters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQalRPQ8stI
This may be a little bit extreme but I would hardly say that booing and being flipped off is anything close to kill him, he's an arab, he's a terrorist that have been stated at McCain campaign rallies.
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I wish I could express my thoughts on politics like the rest of you. Bill I know, what you are going to say. However, you are wrong. I am not that smart. Hick, I cannot even pass the GED… I am way to below. I grew up in special Ed. I am telling you all the truth. I do not understand politics. You all have too much faith in me. Where I do not have for me. I know where my education lies, I not as smart as you think. I just learn how to read about 7 years ago. It took me that long. I am a slow learner. My ex is right when he said; I will never mount to nothing. What is a good lover if he puts you down? What is a good friend who cannot see your past is still haunting you. In addition, life is not what it seems on the outside. How, can help someone else when I cannot help my self? I am not a miracle worker. I just know it best to be honest in a relationship and hope it work out. That is all I know.
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beatlechick
Oct 14 2008, 06:01 AM
Bag O' Nails
Oct 14 2008, 05:15 AM
I would venture to say that the famous Hollywood big-mouths who use their fame and money to promote "their" candidate qualify as extremist supporters. :whistle:
So I guess people like Chuck Norris,Jon Voight, Kelsey Grammar, Gary Sinise, and Dennis Miller (WWWWAHHHHH?!? :blink: ), Tim Allen, producer Jerry Bruckheimer, and possibly Adam Sandler are also extremists as they (not sure about Adam Sandler but he did support Guiliani) support McCain! Not many people are sure about Angelina Jolie as she has gone on record stating she likes McCain. I think Brad is an Obamaite, however.
You forgot Sly Stallone.
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Reality check:
If there is booing and jeering towards Obama at McCain rallies, that's to be expected. That's politics. If they call him a liberal or a loser or even a liar, that may be factually inaccurate but it's all part of campaigning and I wouldn't think any less of anyone for doing it. But when they use expressions like traitor, terrorist, and "kill him," that crosses the line between opposition and hatred. That ought to be a no-brainer.

Reality check No. 2:
The makers of that video are labouring under a very poor reading of the US constitution. The right to free expression and assembly does NOT guarantee that such expression and assembly should go unchallenged. If a bunch of Obama supporters went marching down the main street of Wasilla, I'm sure the locals would respond with just as many raised fingers and lowered thumbs, as is their right. If you don't want your viewpoints to be challenged, then stay home and shut up. If you want to express your views, then be prepared for others to express their views against you.


If people really can't tell the difference between standing in opposition an inciting hatred, that disturbs me.
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Bag O' Nails
Oct 14 2008, 05:13 AM
fab4fan
Oct 14 2008, 04:54 AM
Bill
Oct 14 2008, 04:49 AM
I agree that such a question is racially charged and out of order, but unless there are people at Obama rallies calling out "traitor," "terrorist," and "kill him!" about McCain, then it's not fair to say that both sides have their extremist supporters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQalRPQ8stI
Thanks, John. You just proved my point. :yes:
At least there was no interviewer trying to trick people into making false statements about McCain...the peoples use of their fingers showed exactly how they felt! :whistle:
Obviously you have never been to a Yankees game. Those anonymous flaming liberals were taking it easy on the McCain supporters marching through THEIR neighborhood. I am pretty certain the the finger flipping went both ways that day. Plus there is a big difference between booing/jeering/finger-flipping and racist comments/threats to kill someone/calling someone a traitor or a terrorist.

ThePeoplesCube.com presents: A Pro-McCain march on the Upper West Side in Manhattan on Sunday, September 21, 2008. A group of McCain-Palin supporters dare to march through the Upper West Side - infidels in the liberal Mecca. Local "progressives" boo, jeer, and flip fingers at them with a rage they never display even to this country's enemies. We would like them to take a look at themselves in this video and maybe learn a few things about the human condition that the academia has obviously left out.
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Bill
Oct 14 2008, 06:25 AM
beatlechick
Oct 14 2008, 06:01 AM
Bag O' Nails
Oct 14 2008, 05:15 AM
I would venture to say that the famous Hollywood big-mouths who use their fame and money to promote "their" candidate qualify as extremist supporters. :whistle:
So I guess people like Chuck Norris,Jon Voight, Kelsey Grammar, Gary Sinise, and Dennis Miller (WWWWAHHHHH?!? :blink: ), Tim Allen, producer Jerry Bruckheimer, and possibly Adam Sandler are also extremists as they (not sure about Adam Sandler but he did support Guiliani) support McCain! Not many people are sure about Angelina Jolie as she has gone on record stating she likes McCain. I think Brad is an Obamaite, however.
You forgot Sly Stallone.
:blush: Shame on me. Well you know the old saying, once you've seen one extremist, you've seen them all!
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Bill,
I posted the youtube link as a comparison to the videos where the guy was asking the questions at the McCain/Palin rally.
Is there a link of where they said to "kill," or "traitor" and "terrorist?" I saw one clip briefly on a news cast where this was supposedly said but what I heard was unintelligible. Not doubting it happened or disagreeing with anyone's reaction of how pathetic it is, just I haven't heard it yet.
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Bill
Oct 13 2008, 11:49 PM
fab4fan
Oct 13 2008, 11:06 PM
Had to comment on ThirdHarmony's post. (Which by the way are always a pleasure to read. Amazing how in tune some people are with the American political process. As someone else said, more Americans should be like Bill, Andy, (well to a point :P ;) ) and ThirdHarmony.)

The 60 Senator thing is huge! And scary! It is the first thing that is giving me pause about voting for Obama. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi with carte blanche. No wonder the market is tanking.
Don't puddle up on me now, China!
What does this mean?
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beatlechick
Oct 14 2008, 06:48 AM
Bill
Oct 14 2008, 06:25 AM
beatlechick
Oct 14 2008, 06:01 AM
Bag O' Nails
Oct 14 2008, 05:15 AM
I would venture to say that the famous Hollywood big-mouths who use their fame and money to promote "their" candidate qualify as extremist supporters. :whistle:
So I guess people like Chuck Norris,Jon Voight, Kelsey Grammar, Gary Sinise, and Dennis Miller (WWWWAHHHHH?!? :blink: ), Tim Allen, producer Jerry Bruckheimer, and possibly Adam Sandler are also extremists as they (not sure about Adam Sandler but he did support Guiliani) support McCain! Not many people are sure about Angelina Jolie as she has gone on record stating she likes McCain. I think Brad is an Obamaite, however.
You forgot Sly Stallone.
:blush: Shame on me. Well you know the old saying, once you've seen one extremist, you've seen them all!
Or you seen none at all. White power is wear I live, power is our faith . it is our mistake.
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Oct 14 2008, 06:50 AM
Bill,
I posted the youtube link as a comparison to the videos where the guy was asking the questions at the McCain/Palin rally.
Is there a link of where they said to "kill," or "traitor" and "terrorist?" I saw one clip briefly on a news cast where this was supposedly said but what I heard was unintelligible. Not doubting it happened or disagreeing with anyone's reaction of how pathetic it is, just I haven't heard it yet.
Angry anti-Obama taunts grip McCain, Palin events
Associated Press
By PHILIP ELLIOTT and BETH FOUHY – 3 days ago

LA CROSSE, Wis. (AP) — Some of the anger is getting raw at Republican rallies and John McCain is mostly letting it flare. A sense of grievance spilling into rage has gripped some GOP events as McCain supporters see his presidential campaign lag against Barack Obama. They're making it personal, against the Democrat. Shouts of "traitor," "terrorist," "treason," "liar," and even "off with his head" have rung from the crowd at McCain and Sarah Palin rallies, and gone unchallenged by them.

Presidential candidates are accustomed to raucous rallies this close to Election Day and welcome the enthusiasm. But they are also traditionally monitors of sorts from the stage. Part of their job is to leaven proceedings if tempers run ragged and to rein in an out-of-bounds comment from the crowd.

Not so much this week, at GOP rallies in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida and other states.

When a visibly angry McCain supporter in Waukesha, Wis., on Thursday told the candidate "I'm really mad" because of "socialists taking over the country," McCain stoked the sentiment. "I think I got the message," he said. "The gentleman is right." He went on to talk about Democrats in control of Congress.

The anti-Obama taunts and jeers are noticeably louder when McCain appears with Palin, a big draw for GOP social conservatives. She accused Obama this week of "palling around with terrorists" because of his past, loose association with a 1960s radical. If less directly, McCain, too, has sought to exploit Obama's Chicago neighborhood ties to William Ayers, while trying simultaneously to steer voters' attention to his plans for the financial crisis.

The Alaska governor did not campaign with McCain on Friday, and his rally in La Crosse was much more subdued than those earlier in the week when the two campaigned together. Still, one woman shouted "traitor" when McCain told voters Obama would raise their taxes.

Volunteers worked up chants from the crowd of "U.S.A." and "John McCain, John McCain," in an apparent attempt to drown out boos and other displays of negative energy.

Palin, at a fundraiser in Ohio on Friday, told supporters "it's not negative and it's not mean-spirited" to scrutinize Obama's iffy associations.

McCain campaign manager Rick Davis said Friday the outbursts weren't a "big deal," but acknowledged considerable frustration among some of the candidate's supporters.

"Political rallies have always attracted people who are emotionally connected to the outcome of the election," Davis said, adding, "I'm confident it has nothing to do with what our candidates are doing or saying right now."

Obama disputed that assessment at a campaign rally in Chillicothe, Ohio, on Friday. "It's easy to rile up a crowd by stoking anger and division," Obama said. "In the last couple of days, we've seen a barrage of nasty insinuations and attacks."

The Obama campaign has kept up a daily drumbeat about McCain's "lies" and the Democratic candidate himself has routinely distorted his rival's record and agenda. Obama calls McCain "erratic" in a subtle but unmistakable attempt to exploit questions about the Republican's age and temperament. But his rallies and rhetoric have lacked the personal venom coming at him from the other side.

The Secret Service confirmed Friday that it had investigated an episode reported in The Washington Post in which someone in Palin's crowd in Clearwater, Fla., shouted "kill him," on Monday, meaning Obama. There was "no indication that there was anything directed at Obama," Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren told AP. "We looked into it because we always operate in an atmosphere of caution."

Fitting with McCain's theme that people don't know enough about Obama, his co-chairman Frank Keating broached a subject Thursday that got one of Hillary Rodham Clinton's advisers removed from her inner circle during her Democratic primary campaign.

Keating described Obama as a "guy of the street" who should be more candid about his drug use as a young man. Obama wrote about his teenage experimentation with drugs and alcohol in his memoirs.

The McCain campaign began running a new television ad criticizing Obama for his relationship with Ayers, a founder of the violent Weather Underground group during the Vietnam War era. Obama and Ayers are neighbors in Chicago, and the two once served together on a charity board. Ayers held a house party for Obama when he was launching his career in Chicago politics, but the two are not close friends.

"When convenient, he worked with terrorist Bill Ayers," the ad says. "When discovered, he lied."

In two events this week, warm-up speakers at GOP rallies have used Obama's middle name, Hussein, to seed doubts about the Democrat, a tactic meant to draw attention to the false rumors that Obama is a Muslim, as well as to belittle him. "On Nov. 4, let's leave Barack Hussein Obama wondering what happened," a sheriff told Palin's Florida rally.

McCain once stepped forward directly to denounce that tactic. This week, his campaign merely issued a lukewarm criticism that tried to score a political point in the same breath: "We do not condone this inappropriate rhetoric which distracts from the real questions of judgment, character and experience that voters will base their decisions on this November."

Some of the frustration at McCain's rallies is from people who want the candidate to go harder after Obama. In Waukesha, when a voter begged McCain to take a more combative tone toward Obama, McCain instead talked about the financial crisis.

"Could I just say very quickly, yes, I'll do that," McCain said. "But I also, my friends, want to address the greatest financial challenge of our lifetime with a positive plan for action."

Beth Fouhy reported from New York. Associated Press Writer Joe Milicia contributed to this story from Cleveland.
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fab4fan
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Bill
Oct 14 2008, 12:05 AM
Now if I might make a comment pertaining to issues and judgement.... :whistle:


The reactions of both the current and the aspiring Republican presidents, to me, betray a continual lurching between denial and panic.
Warning: the next sentence will confront you with a harsh fact.
The threat of terrorism did NOT change on September 11th. The threat was always there, it's just that that was the day when many people woke up to the fact. History has shown that the Bush administration was warned about terrorist threats but chose not to turn their attention to it - that is, until the day they could no longer ignore it when it suddenly became the only thing on their minds. Overnight, terrorism went from being taken off the agenda to being the defining struggle of our times.

Then there's the economic crisis. And we see exactly the same behaviour. Right up until the day before the collapses, both George Bush and John McCain were saying the fundamentals of the economy were strong, despite a multitude of warnings that it was anything but strong. Then, overnight, it suddenly became the worst crisis since 1929.

These things did not happen overnight. They brewed for years and they were warned about but government ignored the warnings until it was too late.
So on both national security and economics, Republicans have consistently been a day late and a trillion dollars short.

It seems to me that if you want someone who will slam the stable door shut the loudest after the horse has bolted, then vote Republican. If you want to keep the horse, then vote for someone who noticed the latch was faulty before it failed.
There is a huge difference between the market taking a dump and the economy taking a dump.

As to the warnings about terrorism, were those relayed before or after they had finished popping all the "W's" off all the keyboards? (I know, grow up.) ;) :rofl:
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from the above article
 
The Secret Service confirmed Friday that it had investigated an episode reported in The Washington Post in which someone in Palin's crowd in Clearwater, Fla., shouted "kill him," on Monday, meaning Obama. There was "no indication that there was anything directed at Obama," Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren told AP. "We looked into it because we always operate in an atmosphere of caution."
Edited by fab4fan, Oct 14 2008, 07:03 AM.
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October 11th, 2008 2:52 AM Eastern
McCain seeks to calm angry supporters
FOX News
by Mosheh Oinounou

LAKEVILLE, MN — It was a surreal scene during John McCain’s town hall meeting Friday as the GOP nominee was forced at times to defend Barack Obama as he urged thousands of supporters to cool their increasingly vitriolic anti-Obama rhetoric.

McCain sought to calm his raucous audience by lightening his criticism of Obama at times and repeatedly pleading with the crowd to be “respectful” of the Democratic nominee only to be repeatedly booed today. Supporters at recent rallies have shouted out that Obama is a terrorist, traitor and criminal, among other choice words.

“We want to fight, and I will fight but we will be respectful. I admire Senator Obama and his accomplishments. I will respect him,” McCain said to a chorus of boos as he tried to answer a supporter who urged him to engage in a “real fight.”

“I want everyone to be respectful and lets make sure we are because that’s the way politics should be conducted…now I don’t mean that has to reduce your ferocity. I just mean its got to be respectful. OK,” he said.

But for the second day in a row, a McCain town hall meeting felt more like an intervention as staunch supporters repeatedly pleaded with the GOP nominee to attack Obama using his associations with people like Bill Ayers or risk losing in November.

“My wife and I are expecting (a child)…and frankly, we’re scared. We’re scared of an Obama presidency,” one man told McCain asserting that Obama also “cohorts with domestic terrorists.”

“I want to be President of the United States and obviously I do not want Senator Obama to be, but I have to tell you…he is a decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared as President of the United States,” McCain said to additional boos from the crowd. He tried to assuage them by adding, ” if I didn’t think I wouldn’t be one heck of a lot better president I wouldn’t be running,” but received only a smattering of applause.

“Saying the facts about him, and the truth, that needs to come out,” another supporter urged McCain, as yet one other called on him to go to “the mattresses” with Obama at next Wednesday’s debate.

It didn’t stop there. McCain had to literally grab the microphone from one female supporter while she was still asking her question after she called Obama an “Arab.”

“No ma’am. No ma’am. He is a decent family man, a citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues and that is what this campaign is all about. He is not,” McCain repeated shaking his head.

The new message comes after days of multiple TV and web ads and campaign conference calls attacking Obama’s associations with Bill Ayers, ACORN, Tony Rezko and casting him as an unknown entity who has been dishonest with the American people. Last Saturday, Sarah Palin kicked off the more aggressive message by stating that he “pals around with terrorists” and it escalated with McCain saying Monday that America does not know “the real Barack Obama.”

Though at other times, McCain reluctantly succumbed to the pressure and attacked Obama’s Ayers connection and liberal voting record as farther to the left than socialist Bernie Sanders.

“In order to win this election…you have to talk a little bit, and bring to the attention of the voters, the press is not going to do it for you…some of the associations that have really marred Obama’s life,” former US Senator Rudy Boschwitz recommended during the event.

Noting that he doesn’t care about Ayers or his wife, whom he described as an “old, washed-up terrorists,” McCain said that the bigger issue is that Obama is not being forthright about his relationship with the 60’s radical.

“What we do care about is people telling the truth about their associations with these individuals. That’s what the question is about…Sen. Obama said that Mr. Ayers was a guy in the neighborhood, when in reality, Sen. Obama’s political career was launched in Mr. Ayers living room,” he said to cheers.

But when lobbed a softball question by another town hall attendee to talk about ACORN improprieties McCain punted on drawing the connection between the community organizing group and Obama–a relationship the campaign had been pushing aggressively all day.

He called for a “a full and complete and thorough investigation” of allegations of voter registration fraud against the group and left it at that.
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Beatlelicious
Don't always think that someone who raise with blacks is going to be with a black person or be like them. I was never like them. I was me. I don't see any wrong with a black person. however, I think that white or black are no better then each other. even though when I grew up i was thought other wise. I was bought up to be shame who I was. I survive though it though.
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Man Shot for Wearing Obama T-Shirt
Posted Oct 8th 2008 12:00PM by Jeff Douglas

Police are searching for the man who shot a Barack Obama supporter three times in broad daylight for wearing an Obama T-shirt. Any guess where this senseless shooting happened? It wasn't in the Jim Crow south, a trailer park or even Jena, Louisiana. It was in London. This VOTE OR DIE business is real, folks.

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According to the Daily Mail, Dube Egwuatu was buying a cell phone card when a British white skinhead with a gun confronted him for wearing a 'Believe' Obama shirt. The man then launched into a tirade of racist slurs, shouting "I f***ing hate n*****s" and urging 36-year-old Mr. Egwuatu to leave the shop with him, according to the paper.

Trying to prevent a confrontation with the irate man threatening violence with a bb gun, Egwuatu even zipped up his jacket to cover the image of Obama and walked to his car. The suspect, who has not been captured, shot a gas-powered bb pistol three times, hitting the victim in the face, hand and shoulder. Egwuatu survived and raced away in his car, looking for help. A piece of metal from the bullet had to be removed from his jaw. Egwuatu told the Daily Mail: "The venom in his voice was frightening. He was telling me that he was going to kill me."

So if you asked me which country is MORE racist overall, the U.S. or the U.K.? I'd say the U.K., not unlike the rest of xenophobic Europe. Lots of folks might disagree with this, given our country's long, sad history of institutionalized racism, and the covert racism that exists today. I've only visited London once, for a few days back in 2001, but in that short time it was clear to me that broad-daylight racism was not nearly as taboo across the pond as it is here in the states. I observed some of the most venomous and racist graffiti while there. I also witnessed white supremacists and skinheads wearing their stripes in the open. Sure, racism is STILL alive and well in the U.S. I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not very surprised to hear this happened in London and not L.A. or New York.
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Bill
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fab4fan
Oct 14 2008, 06:53 AM
Bill
Oct 13 2008, 11:49 PM
Don't puddle up on me now, China!
What does this mean?
Don't go wobbly. ;)

China - rhyming slang, china plate.
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fab4fan
Oct 14 2008, 06:59 AM

As to the warnings about terrorism, were those relayed before or after they had finished popping all the "W's" off all the keyboards? (I know, grow up.) ;) :rofl:
The popping of the Ws never happened. That was a fabricated story.
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I am trying to think. why, in the hick Il look up to you bill? I think it is the fact you are one smart of a person. can you blame me of thinking that way?
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I just said it gave me pause. Trust me when I say if the shoe was on the other foot it would give me pause then also. (Although it wouldn't scare me as much.
Just so you understand what I mean: with 60 Senators, the way I understand it, the party in control can pass anything they want WITHOUT compromise. When you don't trust government, gridlock is your friend. ;)
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fab4fan
Oct 14 2008, 06:50 AM
Bill,
I posted the youtube link as a comparison to the videos where the guy was asking the questions at the McCain/Palin rally.
Is there a link of where they said to "kill," or "traitor" and "terrorist?" I saw one clip briefly on a news cast where this was supposedly said but what I heard was unintelligible. Not doubting it happened or disagreeing with anyone's reaction of how pathetic it is, just I haven't heard it yet.
Check about 13 seconds into this video and look at McCain's face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoY6-ZTqIAY

Listen to the part about 1.54 min into the video, and please disregard Keith Olbermann - I do but he is talking some truth here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOMdq-Y_E_Q&feature=related

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Dorothy
Oct 14 2008, 07:12 AM
I am trying to think. why, in the hick Il look up to you bill? I think it is the fact you are one smart of a person. can you blame me of thinking that way?
Are you shorter than him?
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Dorothy
Oct 14 2008, 06:54 AM
beatlechick
Oct 14 2008, 06:48 AM
Bill
Oct 14 2008, 06:25 AM
beatlechick
Oct 14 2008, 06:01 AM
Bag O' Nails
Oct 14 2008, 05:15 AM
I would venture to say that the famous Hollywood big-mouths who use their fame and money to promote "their" candidate qualify as extremist supporters. :whistle:
So I guess people like Chuck Norris,Jon Voight, Kelsey Grammar, Gary Sinise, and Dennis Miller (WWWWAHHHHH?!? :blink: ), Tim Allen, producer Jerry Bruckheimer, and possibly Adam Sandler are also extremists as they (not sure about Adam Sandler but he did support Guiliani) support McCain! Not many people are sure about Angelina Jolie as she has gone on record stating she likes McCain. I think Brad is an Obamaite, however.
You forgot Sly Stallone.
:blush: Shame on me. Well you know the old saying, once you've seen one extremist, you've seen them all!
Or you seen none at all. White power is wear I live, power is our faith . it is our mistake.
WHITE POWER?!? :angry:
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fab4fan
Oct 14 2008, 07:14 AM
I just said it gave me pause. Trust me when I say if the shoe was on the other foot it would give me pause then also. (Although it wouldn't scare me as much.
Just so you understand what I mean: with 60 Senators, the way I understand it, the party in control can pass anything they want WITHOUT compromise. When you don't trust government, gridlock is your friend. ;)
I couldn't agree more, but we've seen where six years of unfettered Republican rule got you. ;)
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beatlechick
Oct 14 2008, 07:15 AM
Dorothy
Oct 14 2008, 06:54 AM
beatlechick
Oct 14 2008, 06:48 AM
Bill
Oct 14 2008, 06:25 AM
beatlechick
Oct 14 2008, 06:01 AM
Bag O' Nails
Oct 14 2008, 05:15 AM
I would venture to say that the famous Hollywood big-mouths who use their fame and money to promote "their" candidate qualify as extremist supporters. :whistle:
So I guess people like Chuck Norris,Jon Voight, Kelsey Grammar, Gary Sinise, and Dennis Miller (WWWWAHHHHH?!? :blink: ), Tim Allen, producer Jerry Bruckheimer, and possibly Adam Sandler are also extremists as they (not sure about Adam Sandler but he did support Guiliani) support McCain! Not many people are sure about Angelina Jolie as she has gone on record stating she likes McCain. I think Brad is an Obamaite, however.
You forgot Sly Stallone.
:blush: Shame on me. Well you know the old saying, once you've seen one extremist, you've seen them all!
Or you seen none at all. White power is wear I live, power is our faith . it is our mistake.
WHITE POWER?!? :angry:
I am not saying I am white power. I am saying white power is where I live. my friend jenna a month ago was killed by a white power guy. I
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I am not from whit power. my son in law fro the gang Norteños gang.
Edited by Dorfliedot, Oct 14 2008, 07:27 AM.
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This video says a lot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E
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Dotty, I wasn't talking about you being a white power supremacist. Just the comment about white power.
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Bill
Oct 14 2008, 07:18 AM
fab4fan
Oct 14 2008, 07:14 AM
I just said it gave me pause. Trust me when I say if the shoe was on the other foot it would give me pause then also. (Although it wouldn't scare me as much.
Just so you understand what I mean: with 60 Senators, the way I understand it, the party in control can pass anything they want WITHOUT compromise. When you don't trust government, gridlock is your friend. ;)
I couldn't agree more, but we've seen where six years of unfettered Republican rule got you. ;)
Bill you're missing the point. Having 60 Senators of one party is unfettered rule. Their is nothing the minority party can do to stop the majority with that kind of supermajority.
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Jenna. was a nice peson. she didn't deseve to die this way.http://www.appeal-democrat.com/news/connor_69730___article.html/prothero_murder.html
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I got that.

The point is that it's only astounding Republican incompetence that has allowed that to become a possibility. Conservatives have no-one to blame but Republicans.
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Oct 14 2008, 07:15 AM
Dorothy
Oct 14 2008, 07:12 AM
I am trying to think. why, in the hick Il look up to you bill? I think it is the fact you are one smart of a person. can you blame me of thinking that way?
Are you shorter than him?
Yes, I am 4/11
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Oct 14 2008, 07:29 AM
Bill
Oct 14 2008, 07:18 AM
fab4fan
Oct 14 2008, 07:14 AM
I just said it gave me pause. Trust me when I say if the shoe was on the other foot it would give me pause then also. (Although it wouldn't scare me as much.
Just so you understand what I mean: with 60 Senators, the way I understand it, the party in control can pass anything they want WITHOUT compromise. When you don't trust government, gridlock is your friend. ;)
I couldn't agree more, but we've seen where six years of unfettered Republican rule got you. ;)
Bill you're missing the point. Having 60 Senators of one party is unfettered rule. Their is nothing the minority party can do to stop the majority with that kind of supermajority.
John, you know this wouldn't be the first time that this country is ruled by one party and it would not be the last.
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...and perhaps a 60-seat, cloture-ensuring, filibuster-proof Senate...


Supermajority was the wrong term. Had to go to the Swede to get it right. :duh:

And of course you are right about who is to blame.
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Oct 14 2008, 07:33 AM
John, you know this wouldn't be the first time that this country is ruled by one party and it would not be the last.
I'm guessing the last time it happened was with Johnson in 64? Was there ever a time it happened with Repubs?
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tell the truth you all hate me.? dont ya.
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Oct 14 2008, 07:49 AM
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Oct 14 2008, 07:33 AM
John, you know this wouldn't be the first time that this country is ruled by one party and it would not be the last.
I'm guessing the last time it happened was with Johnson in 64? Was there ever a time it happened with Repubs?
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1032.html

WOW! Carter had it for the first two years of his administration. Maybe I'm all worried about nothing.
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fab4fan
Oct 14 2008, 08:13 AM
fab4fan
Oct 14 2008, 07:49 AM
beatlechick
Oct 14 2008, 07:33 AM
John, you know this wouldn't be the first time that this country is ruled by one party and it would not be the last.
I'm guessing the last time it happened was with Johnson in 64? Was there ever a time it happened with Repubs?
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1032.html

WOW! Carter had it for the first two years of his administration. Maybe I'm all worried about nothing.
Don't forget, there was the controversial Mandatory Eating Of Peanuts With Every Meal Bill in 1979. Do you really want to return to such dark times? ;)
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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Jacaranda
Oct 13 2008, 09:04 PM
wackadoo
Oct 12 2008, 01:55 AM
Doesn't it bother anyone else besides me that he has not one, not two, but 3 non American names? And please...don't play the racist card with me.


Mary Ann, I find it hard to understand why you don't comprehend why people would be angry about this statement.

It is definitely provocative. You are implying that there is something bad, wrong, unAmerican about having the name Barack Hussein Obama. I happen to personally be distressed at this opinion as my daughter's middle name is Yifu, which is Chinese. By your standards, she is suspect, though of what I am not completely clear. You are also implying that those with "non-American" names are potentially not fit for the Presidential office, but why, again, I don't know.

Calling up the specter of 9/11 still does not make your case clear. Obama, very obviously, had nothing to do with that situation.

The way I view it, people are usually not responsible for their names, most having been given them by their parents. Obama was named for his father, who actually had very little to do with the raising of his son. As for me, I actually try to base my judgments about political candidates on their actions and accomplishments, not their given names.

It is the passing on of ideas like this which fuel the fire of fear and ugly reactionary mob behavior that has been present at McCain/Palin rallies recently, where their supporters have been calling Obama a "traitor" who should be killed.

That, in my opinion, is unAmerican (or at least it should be) and bothers me more than anything.
Lisa, I think you know what I meant. I was talking about names that are connected to terrorism. Again, I am surrounded by children of many different cultures and races and I love them all. I tutor an Asian boy and he is the cutest lil boy anyone has ever seen. One question of curiosity... Can you picture China with a leader named Joe Lieberman? By the way, my cousin also adopted a little girl from China and she is a sweetheart, much like your little Grace.
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China is not a nation of immigrants.
Put a puppet on it.
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Mary Ann, I'm glad to see that you're back and I'm assuming, safe.

Regarding your reply, I definitely know now what you meant. But when I wrote earlier, I was addressing your original statement: "Doesn't it bother anyone else besides me that he has not one, not two, but 3 non American names?" You seemed to be surprised that people were offended by that question. I was explaining my viewpoint as an illustration why I found it to be upsetting.

I still am wondering what is wrong with "non-American" names actually.

Since your original intent was to cast doubt on Obama's fitness for Presidential office because his three names sound like terrorist names, why not say so in the first place? Why imply there is something inherently wrong with what you classify as "non-American" names?

And by the way, I consider Obama's name to be American, because he is, which is indisputable.
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I just found out Obama is the Anti- Christ. :unsure:
Now, don't get to crucifying me for my opinion. :sweet: :whistle:




:giggle: Just kidding. :lol:
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Jacaranda
Oct 14 2008, 03:50 PM
I still am wondering what is wrong with "non-American" names actually.

Since your original intent was to cast doubt on Obama's fitness for Presidential office because his three names sound like terrorist names, why not say so in the first place? Why imply there is something inherently wrong with what you classify as "non-American" names?

And by the way, I consider Obama's name to be American, because he is, which is indisputable.
I still don't understand what is wrong with the non-American names either. Was Obama supposed to change his name if he wanted to run for president to an American name, whatever that is?

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I was thinking Obama can change his name to john mcCain. :lol:
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Bill
Oct 13 2008, 11:30 PM
How many Obama supporters have gone to rallies and shouted about killing McCain? That's all you need to know.
How many times has the threat to "kill him!" been heard at McCain/Palin rallies? I've heard it only once. That one soundbite. Yet the smear is in, as you and others give the blanket characterization that somehow a "mob" of racists frothing at the mouth harbors such feelings at each rally and yells such hateful things. You have much in common with the mainstream media in that regard, and another reason more and more people find themselves questioning each and every story from the mainstream media with the assumption (to me a prudent one) that the reader is being manipulated or even outright lied to.

And the talented reporter out to reveal the backwards and bigoted ignorance the liberals would have people believe is festering at McCain rallies, did not in any way reveal a "mob" despite his goading. The folks there were restrained and not at all violent, and most were not tricked into saying Obama is a terrorist for one of the left's treasured "gotcha" moments, later to be played endlessly as that cartoonish Keith Olbermann gravely intones with pronouncements falsely and disingenuously implying that the McCain supporters are somehow all like this. That is stereotyping at its worst and most inflammatory.

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Dorothy
Oct 14 2008, 07:54 AM
tell the truth you all hate me.? dont ya.
Nah.

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Oct 14 2008, 07:15 AM
WHITE POWER?!? :angry:
Got milk?

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Oct 14 2008, 05:30 PM
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Oct 14 2008, 07:15 AM
WHITE POWER?!? :angry:
Got milk?
:lol: :D
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Oct 14 2008, 07:49 AM
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Oct 14 2008, 07:33 AM
John, you know this wouldn't be the first time that this country is ruled by one party and it would not be the last.
I'm guessing the last time it happened was with Johnson in 64? Was there ever a time it happened with Repubs?
Yes, try the first 6 years of Bush. Reagan, I believe, had a Republican majority but not sure.
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Oct 14 2008, 05:22 PM
Bill
Oct 13 2008, 11:30 PM
How many Obama supporters have gone to rallies and shouted about killing McCain? That's all you need to know.
How many times has the threat to "kill him!" been heard at McCain/Palin rallies? I've heard it only once. That one soundbite. Yet the smear is in, as you and others give the blanket characterization that somehow a "mob" of racists frothing at the mouth harbors such feelings at each rally and yells such hateful things. You have much in common with the mainstream media in that regard, and another reason more and more people find themselves questioning each and every story from the mainstream media with the assumption (to me a prudent one) that the reader is being manipulated or even outright lied to.

And the talented reporter out to reveal the backwards and bigoted ignorance the liberals would have people believe is festering at McCain rallies, did not in any way reveal a "mob" despite his goading. The folks there were restrained and not at all violent, and most were not tricked into saying Obama is a terrorist for one of the left's treasured "gotcha" moments, later to be played endlessly as that cartoonish Keith Olbermann gravely intones with pronouncements falsely and disingenuously implying that the McCain supporters are somehow all like this. That is stereotyping at its worst and most inflammatory.
Wow! How much more inflammatory can you get? It is people like you that are spinning what is being said here. I grant you that there has been 1 person (ONE) that has stated the opponent is being racist and she was put down for it. I just can't understand the "us vs them" mentality. If you have a point to make, than please do so but please quit with the smears that you say we are making.

The video that I showed from Olbermann's show, a show I will not watch and I AM A LIBERAL (but more centrist than you think we are), I did state to not pay attention to what he was saying but that there were some truths there. I posted that video because it showed more than one rally that those phrases were being used, and shows that the Great Palin is saying her own bad self. She was becoming, until McCain finally put the brakes to it, what Bill Clinton was to Obama during the primaries - a liability!

As for us believing that McCain supporters are all like that, I happen to know a supporter or two and I know they aren't all like that. And for you to state that we all think that they are is just wrong. Completely wrong! You are are stereotyping us. Like Obama has stated about the half and untruths thrown about him, you push we have to answer.
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Oct 14 2008, 05:30 PM
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Oct 14 2008, 07:15 AM
WHITE POWER?!? :angry:
Got milk?
Sorry, don't drink the stuff. Got soy?
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Oct 14 2008, 07:08 PM
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Oct 14 2008, 05:30 PM
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Oct 14 2008, 07:15 AM
WHITE POWER?!? :angry:
Got milk?
Sorry, don't drink the stuff. Got soy?
My grandson drinks silk milk.
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Gosh, you guys get to personal in this thread. I am voting for the less popular person. I sure, who not popular is not the Anti- Christ. ;)
The Anti- Christ is near. :yes:
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Dorothy
Oct 14 2008, 07:13 PM
Gosh, you guys get to personal in this thread. I am voting for the less popular person. I sure, who not popular is not the Anti- Christ. ;)
The Anti- Christ is near. :yes:
Please Dotty, things are bad enough. We don't need anyone calling anybody the anti-christ.
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beatlechick
Oct 14 2008, 06:52 PM
fab4fan
Oct 14 2008, 07:49 AM
beatlechick
Oct 14 2008, 07:33 AM
John, you know this wouldn't be the first time that this country is ruled by one party and it would not be the last.
I'm guessing the last time it happened was with Johnson in 64? Was there ever a time it happened with Repubs?
Yes, try the first 6 years of Bush. Reagan, I believe, had a Republican majority but not sure.
John later provided a link that listed the various Congresses through the years. ( http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1032.html ). For some reason that site flips the traditional party colours. Also, it doesn't include the 110th Congress (2007-2009).

The Office of the Clerk has the list for the House here: http://clerk.house.gov/art_history/house_history/partyDiv.html

But wikipedia has a bit more easy to read summary of all branches, colour-coded along more traditional lines.
Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_divisions_of_United_States_Congresses

To see which party held the majority, look for boldface.

Actually, the Republicans under GWB didn't grab a real majority in the Senate until the 108th Congress (starting 2003). The previous one (2001-2003) was split 50-50 (which of course means that the Vice President casts the deciding vote in case of ties - except for the first 17 days when Al Gore still had that role). But in mid-2001 Vermont Senator Jim Jeffords flipped from Republican to Independent voting with the Dems, switching the balance back to the Dems.

Speaking of independents voting with the Dems... Joe Lieberman is someone who sure don't want the Dems going past 60 seats. As is, his role is very valuable to boths sides. Beyond 60...not so much, and the Dems would certainly boot him out considering his Republican campaigning.






Edited by ThirdHarmony, Oct 14 2008, 07:22 PM.
"My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson

"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
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Thank you for that. At least I got it right that during most of GW's reign, his party had the majority seats.
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Oh and to add a bit more trivia ^_^ ...

The Republicans didn't control both houses under Reagan. The Democrats controlled the House during his entire time as President (and the Senate for the final two years).

As for getting more than 60 seats in the Senate, as pointed out by John, the Dems last had that during Carter & Ford. Previously they had that during JFK & LBJ.

And of course... during World War II, with Democratic President FDR, the Dems had a massive majority in all branches, at one point controlling the Senate 75/17 and the House 333/89.

The Republicans last had over 60 seats back in 1907-1909, under Teddy Roosevelt. Back then, though, the rules for cloture were different I think, requiring certain percentages of the present senators.



Edited by ThirdHarmony, Oct 14 2008, 07:40 PM.
"My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson

"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
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Oct 14 2008, 07:14 PM
Dorothy
Oct 14 2008, 07:13 PM
Gosh, you guys get to personal in this thread. I am voting for the less popular person. I sure, who not popular is not the Anti- Christ. ;)
The Anti- Christ is near. :yes:
Please Dotty, things are bad enough. We don't need anyone calling anybody the anti-christ.
Just kidding.
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Dorothy
Oct 14 2008, 07:34 PM
beatlechick
Oct 14 2008, 07:14 PM
Dorothy
Oct 14 2008, 07:13 PM
Gosh, you guys get to personal in this thread. I am voting for the less popular person. I sure, who not popular is not the Anti- Christ. ;)
The Anti- Christ is near. :yes:
Please Dotty, things are bad enough. We don't need anyone calling anybody the anti-christ.
Just kidding.
I know you are but not a very good joke. Sorry hon!
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Oct 14 2008, 07:34 PM
Oh and to add a bit more trivia ^_^ ...

The Republicans didn't control both houses under Reagan. The Democrats controlled the House during his entire time as President (and the Senate for the final two years).

As for getting more than 60 seats in the Senate, as pointed out by John, the Dems last had that during Carter & Ford. Previously they had that during JFK & LBJ.

The Republicans last had over 60 seats back in 1907-1909, under Teddy Roosevelt. Back then, though, the rules for cloture were different I think, requiring certain percentages of the present senators.



And Teddy Roosevelt was a better President than what we currently have. He was probably this country's first environmentalist. I wasn't sure about Reagan but I also know that there were a lot of house members that did not question what Reagan was doing. Made it seem like he had the majority.
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Quote:
 
And Teddy Roosevelt was a better President than what we currently have. He was probably this country's first environmentalist. I wasn't sure about Reagan but I also know that there were a lot of house members that did not question what Reagan was doing. Made it seem like he had the majority.


I added a bit more in my post about FDR also, in case you missed it. Anyway, history is history. It tends to repeat, I hear - though probably not when we expect it. :)
Edited by ThirdHarmony, Oct 14 2008, 07:42 PM.
"My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson

"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
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Oct 14 2008, 07:42 PM
Quote:
 
And Teddy Roosevelt was a better President than what we currently have. He was probably this country's first environmentalist. I wasn't sure about Reagan but I also know that there were a lot of house members that did not question what Reagan was doing. Made it seem like he had the majority.


I added a bit more in my post about FDR also, in case you missed it. Anyway, history is history. It tends to repeat, I hear - though probably not when we expect it. :)
FDR was the reason why it was decided that the US would only have a President for 2 terms=8 years. I think that needs to be amended to 1 term=6 years. FDR was a popular President, though.
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Bill
Oct 13 2008, 03:38 PM
wackadoo
Oct 13 2008, 03:33 PM
Bill...I watch various news channels all the time. I don't recall getting any emails of that nature. I would probably delete them because I don't like getting 'spam.'

The connection with Ayers and the other ones I mentioned are things that have been reported and that's why I did my research on it. I have done reading on McCain and I see him as an American hero whose father was an Admiral in our armed forces. At this point of life and all that our country has endured in recent years, he seems like the safest choice.
Where was it reported? Give me one guess!

So what if McCain's father was an admiral? Is this an election or a royal ascendency?
If you like McCain for being McCain, then good for you. But please stop talking crap about Obama. His name sounds like Osama? Is that all you've got? Is that the worst thing you can say about him?
I mentioned it to show his patriotism, nothing more.
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Love Sculpture
Oct 13 2008, 04:48 PM
Maryann, thanks for your explanations. Don't feel like you're being crucified because you wrote what you think. This message board is a democratic place. Don't think we hate you because we disagree with your views. We are friends here and your friends too. You're not the only one who is scared about Obama. Many people in USA are, I believe, that's sad, in my opinion, because there is generalisation in people's mind. Not all Muslims are terrorists and Obama is not a Muslim. I was born in a country where 70%, 80% of people are catholic and I am not catholic.

It's hard to predict the future. Nobody knows what will happen if Obama or McCain become the president of USA. We're just guessing.

There's generalisation in your comments, that's why people are bothered like I am. Not all Muslims are terrorists. George W. Bush is not a Muslin and look at his government...

Thanks. I know I shouldn't worry about a name. Its such an important election and I think we are all very passionate about the affect it will have on everyone everywhere.
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maccascruff
Oct 13 2008, 06:21 PM
wackadoo
Oct 13 2008, 03:23 PM
maccascruff
Oct 12 2008, 05:50 PM
And having seen that hate spewed right here, I also fear for Obama's safety--both between now and the election and after the election. It is a very sad world we live in.

I still can't believe Mary Ann's post. My last name may sound American, whatever that is, but it's origins are from England.

Mary Ann, does your post mean that a Hispanic cannot be president? All of our names, except for Native American names, did not originate in this country.

I am still so offended and angry by that post. I can't believe I read it here and that I think she is serious. :(

Even my Rush Limbaugh loving former boss never came up with anything as hateful as this post.
Why can't we talk without getting so angry? I only mentioned the names in light of 911. I guess having a president with Hussein in his name is a bit scarey and Obama and Osama are so close, it makes me uneasy. I find it hard to believe that no one else was just a little uneasy with that. If I offended you Linda, I am sorry. I didn't want to do that. I should have left that comment out.

I actually like the idea of having an African American president but I don't want one who is racist. I hope he isn't but some of his connections in the past are very questionable.

I live in an area that is more Hispanic than Caucasian and I don't have a problem with that. I teach with many wonderful Hispanic people, I live next door to a wonderful Hispanic family, and I am in love with the young Hispanic girl who lives with us. Do I have a problem with a Hispanic president? Of course not, as long as he or she didn't have ties with radical organizations or people. That's my point.
















I also wrote many posts in response to your post, which I have sent to the Obama campaign. You chose to respond to only the last one and not answer all the other questions I raised. I asked if you wrote the post or if it came from some right wing blog, etc. I have now found out that it did.

I did my research on Obama a long time ago. Obama is not Osama. That should be clear by now. Obama has been in this race for two years. Nobody should be claiming ignorance on that idea. You are an intelligent person, so please stop confusing the two.

What is wrong with casting a vote for a man named Barack Hussein Obama. Obama had nothing to do with 9/11. Nothing. He is not a Muslim and has no ties to al queda.

The anger came from your original post. It was full of hate, Mary Ann. That cannot be denied.
No, it did not come from any conservative blog. I am reading varied literature and watching different news channels to get the various slants.

I will reiterate that I hate no one. I could never hate Obama but I am concerned with this election as everyone else on this thread seems to be. Don't equate concern with hate. If you knew me, you would know that it isn't in my character to hate anyone.

Oh, and as for my being racial against Obama...I have had a 'secret' crush on Denzel Washington for years and is more African American than Obama is! Now, if he ran, I would be running his campaign!!! Seriously, I am not racist, Linda and the secret crush isn't so secret among my family and close friends. :wub:
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fab4fan
Oct 13 2008, 10:50 PM
otlset
Oct 13 2008, 09:59 PM
There is a notable difference between hate, and suspicion. I saw only the latter in Mary Ann's post, no hate, and feel compelled to defend her here.
This assessment I concur with.
Thanks to both of you!
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Dorfliedot
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wackadoo
Oct 14 2008, 08:14 PM
fab4fan
Oct 13 2008, 10:50 PM
otlset
Oct 13 2008, 09:59 PM
There is a notable difference between hate, and suspicion. I saw only the latter in Mary Ann's post, no hate, and feel compelled to defend her here.
This assessment I concur with.
Thanks to both of you!
As for being my bestfriend. I too agree. :) :yes: :wub:
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Bill
Oct 14 2008, 07:10 AM
fab4fan
Oct 14 2008, 06:59 AM

As to the warnings about terrorism, were those relayed before or after they had finished popping all the "W's" off all the keyboards? (I know, grow up.) ;) :rofl:
The popping of the Ws never happened. That was a fabricated story.
Are you sure that didn't happen, Bill? Just curious. I had heard that as well.
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wackadoo
Oct 14 2008, 08:19 PM
Bill
Oct 14 2008, 07:10 AM
fab4fan
Oct 14 2008, 06:59 AM

As to the warnings about terrorism, were those relayed before or after they had finished popping all the "W's" off all the keyboards? (I know, grow up.) ;) :rofl:
The popping of the Ws never happened. That was a fabricated story.
Are you sure that didn't happen, Bill? Just curious. I had heard that as well.
My L's stick llike glue.
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