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| 2008 U.S. Presidential Election | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 22 2007, 05:49 AM (37,423 Views) | |
| maccascruff | Sep 23 2008, 12:48 AM Post #2301 |
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Sing the Changes
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It will not be on your gross income, it would be on your net income--your income after expenses. I toiled for many years and never made this kind of money. I just lost my job. I don't really care if people making taxable income of over $250K will end up paying more taxes. I actually think that after this bailout business, all of us will end up paying more taxes because we will have to. I think these tax plans will become moot. You will not be punished. You will pay your fair share and no more. |
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| maccascruff | Sep 23 2008, 12:51 AM Post #2302 |
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Sing the Changes
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This is a very regressive tax and will hurt very poor people a lot. |
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| beatlechick | Sep 23 2008, 12:53 AM Post #2303 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Many years ago, Steve Forbes proposed a strikingly similar view in his presidential campaigns and was all but laughed out of the races in 1996 and 2000. This is from wikipedia Steve Forbes:
Edited by beatlechick, Sep 23 2008, 01:01 AM.
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| beatlechick | Sep 23 2008, 01:00 AM Post #2304 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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How fair is that when your income is less than $25,000 and have to pay rent, gas, electricity, and either public transportion or your own vehicle? There are many people who make the Federally mandated minimum wage of $6.55 per hour that are single parents. I pay 7.25% sales tax and sometimes that is hard to deal with when you look at the cost of food. When was the last time you saw a corporation that was a small business? I never have and I've worked both. I hope to never work for a corporation again. |
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| Bill | Sep 23 2008, 01:50 AM Post #2305 |
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You're never going to convince me that it's fair to tax baked beans and schoolbooks at the same rate as BMWs and 5-star restaurants. We had this argument here 10 years ago when the government wanted to introduce a 10% GST on everything. (despite John Howard claiming in 1996 that it would "never ever" be a part of his policy. That's what we call a lie) They were forced to take it off things like basic food items and books. I concede that a basic consumption tax makes more sense than different levels of sales tax on every product. But not all products are equal. The basic necessities of life should not be taxed at the same rate as indulgences. That's not a moral judgement on how people choose to spend their money, it's just common sense. I think anyone who thinks it's equitable to tax milk at the same rate as plasma TVs needs to get some perspective. |
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| beatlechick | Sep 23 2008, 01:56 AM Post #2306 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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If you're going to tax a necessity, like food and water, why not tax the air we breath? Sounds stupid but so does putting equal taxes on necessity items as opposed to luxury items. |
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| Bill | Sep 23 2008, 02:02 AM Post #2307 |
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If they were going to tax air, that would mean they would also need to have some kind of quality control. So you know that's not going to happen.
Edited by Bill, Sep 23 2008, 02:32 AM.
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| beatlechick | Sep 23 2008, 02:09 AM Post #2308 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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But you would get the extra-added stuff to go with it.
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| Deleted User | Sep 23 2008, 02:35 AM Post #2309 |
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Deleted User
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Do you think Sarah Palin is qualified to serve as Vice President of the United States? Take Bill Moyer's Online Poll |
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| maccascruff | Sep 23 2008, 06:05 AM Post #2310 |
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Sing the Changes
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Families that live on $20,000 per year have to feed and clothe their children. Should they have to pay a so-called fair tax on these necessities of life? No way. Bill, that last paragraph is very wise. |
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| Jacaranda | Sep 23 2008, 02:07 PM Post #2311 |
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Speaking of luxuries and Sarah Palin...just a bit of light reading... 'Palin Syrah' Wine Drops in Sales After Sarah Palin Veep Pick Posted by The Serious Eats Team, September 22, 2008 at 8:45 AM by Amy Monroe Republican vice presidential pick Sarah Palin might not be fond of San Francisco, but one San Francisco wine bar is fond of Palin Syrah. Or rather, it was. "It was our best selling wine before (the V.P. announcement),” said Chris Tavelli, owner of Yield Wine Bar, which has offered Palin Syrah, a certified organic wine from Chile, by the glass since July. But after Sen. John McCain tagged Sarah Palin as his running mate, sales of the wine with the conservative's inverted name plummeted—not surprising in famously liberal San Francisco. As with the GOP ticket, the Palin falls second in the lineup. The wine’s tasting note reads as it did when Tavelli wrote it months ago: white pepper, madrone, dry. Incidentally, a madrone is an evergreen found primarily in the Pacific Northwest that bears red berries in the fall. When the berries dry up, they are replaced by hooked barbs that latch onto large animals for migration. Even though sales are down, the wine—like Palin the politician—draws lots of attention and comments. One Yield regular suggested that Tavelli amend the wine’s tasting note to read: moosemeat, salmon, hint of gunpowder. When Tavelli chose the wine, which is imported exclusively by North Berkeley Imports, Palin wasn’t on his radar screen. Any parallels people draw between Palin Syrah and Sarah Palin are a “total coincidence,” Tavelli said. Despite the steep sales drop, Tavelli plans to keep “Palin the wine” on his list—for now. With only two cases left in stock, he’ll sell it until it’s gone. But as for whether a reorder is in Palin’s future, Tavelli is more tentative. “I don’t know. I guess it depends on how the election goes.” |
![]() "If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through." General Melchett, Blackadder Goes Forth | |
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 23 2008, 06:06 PM Post #2312 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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The proposed fair tax takes all that into consideration. Read Neal Boortz's book. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| maccascruff | Sep 24 2008, 01:43 AM Post #2313 |
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Sing the Changes
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Why would I buy a book on a topic that I believe is absurd and will never happen? |
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 24 2008, 02:19 AM Post #2314 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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Try a library and learn some people skills. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| beatlechick | Sep 24 2008, 02:47 AM Post #2315 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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I think we all can learn some people skills. No insult needed just try to understand that the 27 % fair tax does not seem all that fair to those of us who don't make enough money to live on with the taxes we do pay. If you are on a fixed income, that percentage is pretty high and the same goes for the people who earn minimum wage yet have a household to take care of. |
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| Bill | Sep 24 2008, 02:48 AM Post #2316 |
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Oi, there's no need to get personal.
Edited by Bill, Sep 24 2008, 02:49 AM.
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| beatlechick | Sep 24 2008, 02:52 AM Post #2317 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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My question is, why did Ms. Palin decide to ban newsmedia from her meeting with UN ambassadors? Why allow just photogs but not allow any questioning?
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| Bill | Sep 24 2008, 02:56 AM Post #2318 |
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CNN decided to pull the plug on their coverage if they weren't going to be allowed to ask any questions. Cue: crying about media bias. Where's Bill O'Reilly's crusade to defend press freedom when you need it? |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 24 2008, 03:04 AM Post #2319 |
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MaccaMomma
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Don't forget to watch this Friday: Debate between McCain and Obama |
![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| maccascruff | Sep 24 2008, 03:46 AM Post #2320 |
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Sing the Changes
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Campbell Brown did a great piece tonight on the sexism in the McCain camp when as it regards Palin. They are protecting her way too much. Why? |
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| maccascruff | Sep 24 2008, 03:47 AM Post #2321 |
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Sing the Changes
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I have plenty of people skills. Thank you. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Sep 24 2008, 10:43 AM Post #2322 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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Looking forward to it. Hope there is a good performance by both candidates. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Sep 24 2008, 10:52 AM Post #2323 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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Going back to the 'fair tax' issue, personally I feel that if a basic proposal cannot be explained without reading a book then it is probably too complicated. In the UK, we pay VAT (Sales Tax) of 17.5%. After a tax-free allowance of just over Ł5,000, we pay 20% income tax (until you hit around the Ł42,000 mark and then everything after that is taxed at 40%). If you increased VAT to 27% and scrapped income tax, I would probably be much better off. However, those who are on low incomes and don't even pay taxes (or much taxes) would struggle to survive. Why should I, who can easily support myself and enjoy a decent standard of living, be better off than those who need the state's help to live? It would probably lead to a large increase in the amount of money needed by those people to survive and would therefore result in a net increase in the state's tax burden (nb. by 'the state', I mean the UK Gov't). Personally, I am in favour of a fixed income tax rate on all earnings past a certain point. That way, we all pay the same. No tax breaks for the rich, just a fair tax for all. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 24 2008, 12:37 PM Post #2324 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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The fair tax is quite uncomplicated. I just don't have the time or energy to try to explain it. That's the point: to do away with the insane IRS beaurocracy. It also taxes illegal aliens, presently flying under the tax radar, the same as everyone else. I certainly understand that many people can't fathom new ideas. Actually the fair tax continues to gain support among lawmakers. As to the people skills comment, not to kick Maccascruff when she is down, but I saw your employment issue coming the monent you started going off about the boss's daughter. I figured out the boss's relatives always win years ago. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| Bill | Sep 24 2008, 12:45 PM Post #2325 |
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Not that that is any reflection on Linda! The thing about having discussions like this is to share ideas. It's a bit lame to just say, "I'm right, go and read about why." I'd be very interested to know how a universal consumption tax of 27% manages to spare the poor from paying more than they can afford to. I am not convinced it can because you have not convinced me, Mister Debate-Judge.
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 24 2008, 12:55 PM Post #2326 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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To properly debate the issue would require an open mind and a great deal of research on both sides instead of essentially calling me a dumbass for mentioning it. (Actually, I argu for a living and have judge debates.) However, I have paying gigs to deal with right now and some tunes to work on later. You ought to hear what Spaceship is cooking up this time... |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| Bill | Sep 24 2008, 01:05 PM Post #2327 |
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Hey, I didn't call you anything. Whatever hidden meaning or subtext you choose to project onto what I've said is entirely your responsibility. I could choose to assume that you just called me closed-minded but since that's not what you actually said, I'll assume the best. Ron Paul's assertion is that income tax is unconstitutional. Be that as it may (or may not) to my simple mind, it seems unavoidable right now. I'm always open to alternatives, if they're fair by nature as well as name.
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 24 2008, 01:16 PM Post #2328 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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I wasn't insinuating that you, Bill, intimated anything. I was referring to others. I don't believe you are close-minded. I believe you are skeptical. Skepticism is good. The proposed Fair Tax, if anyone has time to look into it, is just that, fair. If a rich person buys as $5Million Dollar house, they pay 27% of that in tax. Probably much more than they pay now in income tax. That should interest Democrats. Also, the theory is the government will collect a lot more money in taxes which will be great for those that favor government spending. But there is no income tax. Anyway, it is not unusual for new, good ideas to be scoffed at. I am rather used to it now. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| Bill | Sep 24 2008, 01:33 PM Post #2329 |
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I fully appreciate the tax windfall on big ticket items, it's the bread and milk that I'm worried about - and a family whose income falls below the tax threshold is not going to benefit from any abolition of income tax. I'd need to know what the work-around for this is before I could say anything good about it. |
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 24 2008, 02:06 PM Post #2330 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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I think it is adequately covered but I'm not selling it and I'm not running for office. It is my understanding costs on basics would not change any and the tax would be factored into the price you pay because the company selling the milk would not have to collect sales tax and taxes on all of its employees and then pay corporate tax and/or further pass-through income tax that officers pay. I think there are also carveouts built in for low income earners who would probably make more money anyway because less jobs would leave the country and pay would increase. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| Bill | Sep 24 2008, 02:50 PM Post #2331 |
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I don't know what the current sales tax on such items is but I know that here, there was no sales tax on food items. That was one of the huge stinks caused by the GST here. The government wanted it on everything and since there was no sales tax on food, that would have meant that all food would go up by 10%. The minor parties that held the balance of power in the senate at the time struck a deal to have basic food items exempted from the GST. And yes, there was a big kerfuffle over what "basic" food items were, but we're talking bread, eggs, butter, fruit & veggies, that kind of thing. Likewise, I'm against any kind of tax on the basic necessities of life. And I know that causes problems because both apples and Russian caviar can be considered "food" but a bit of common sense should be applied to what should be exempt. I must express my deep cynicism at the assertion that wages will increase and less jobs will go overseas. I don't see how any kind of tax system is going to mean American workers can compete with a few hundred million Chinese making $5 t-shirts and $30 DVD players. (or $6.35 t-shirts and $38.10 DVD players, as the case may be* )Also, I have to dispute the notion that pay will increase beyond the removal of income tax. No-one ever became rich on the assumption that business will do the right thing by them. If a company has increased profits, regardless of the reason, are they more likely to pass it on to the employees, or pocket it? Yes, I'm sure there are a noble few, but business culture doesn't have much room for nobility. If it's a public company, then forget it. The increase is going to go to the shareholders and the employees will just have to wear it. Again. * Yes, I know I didn't allow for the removal of the existing sales tax |
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| maccascruff | Sep 24 2008, 07:11 PM Post #2332 |
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Sing the Changes
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I can be more open-minded if it is true that necessities would not fall under the fair tax. If somebody buys a $5 million mansion, I'm all for a 27.5% fair tax on them. I know that I will never be paying that kind of money in taxes. Food is taxed different in each state. Here in Colorado, food is subject to sales tax. Prescription medicines are not taxable. Services are not taxable for sales tax. Everything else is fair game at the store. Home sales are not subject to sales tax, but car purchases are. In Iowa, food is exempt from sales tax and every August they have a sales tax exempt weekend for back to school items, which the state defines. As for income tax being unconstitutional, that has been litigated many times and the income tax has never been overturned. Monkey Chow, I will admit that my emotions are totally raw since being fired/laid off, but I do have people skills. I had to have them when I worked at the IRS and in the years that I have worked in the private sector--interviewing people.
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| Deleted User | Sep 24 2008, 08:43 PM Post #2333 |
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Not to divert attention away from 'political discussions' or anything, but I have 100 cases of Palin (no relation) Syrah that I would like to sell for $20 each. Anyone interested?
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| Bill | Sep 25 2008, 12:59 AM Post #2334 |
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Now McCain wants to delay the debates: http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE48N82Q20080924?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews "We must meet as Americans, not as Democrats or Republicans, and we must meet until this crisis is resolved," McCain said. Funny how they all have to be non-partisan Americans when something happens that reminds people of how disastrous the Republicans have been but once that's out of the news cycle, it's right back to being a dick again. Can anyone imagine the reaction if Obama called for a delay in the debates at this late stage? Surely this is the BEST time to have a public debate on where the economy is going. Desperate? I think so. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Sep 25 2008, 01:41 AM Post #2335 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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I think so too, Bill, and think that it is a big mistake which will only be defended by McCain's most loyal supporters. The debate should go ahead. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| maccascruff | Sep 25 2008, 01:41 AM Post #2336 |
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Sing the Changes
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I think you are correct about this being a desperate move by McCain and I am so glad that Obama has called McCain's bluff. The election is less than six weeks away. Yes, the economy is now in dire straits, but why didn't Dubya ask Congress to do something six months ago instead of try to shove a bill down our throats that makes the Treasury Secretary a czar. The bill Dubya wanted gave Paulson total control of everything with no oversight. Bad idea. |
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| BeatleBarb | Sep 25 2008, 02:09 AM Post #2337 |
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This doesn't compare to 9/11 and attending to the emergencies of that event. How is cancelling a debate two days away going to help? They better learn about a little multi-tasking with election day right around the corner. |
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| beatlechick | Sep 25 2008, 02:26 AM Post #2338 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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How do you figure people would leave the country if there is less jobs? We have less jobs now but people aren't leaving. Look I do have an open mind. I am willing to accept alternatives to income tax but where I have to draw the line is the fair tax concept just does not make sense. Okay so it taxes the rich a bit more but if a family of modest means has finally saved up enough money to buy a house that sells for the almost unheard of sum of $100,000 they would have to come up with the additional $27,000 thereby possibly making it hard for them to buy the house they could afford without the 27% tax. Then you tell that family that the half gallon of milk they used to buy at the 99 Cent Only store has gone up (from the previous sales tax of 8%) from $1.07 to $1.27 at the 27% tax range. BTW, the 99 Cent Only stores have great prices and with the costs going up on food they have been even busier. Unfortunately they have to make ends meet, too, so they are thinking of raising their prices. Instead of 2 for 99 Cents, you may only get 1. Bill, here some food items are sales taxed. Not all but some. It is mainly your dry goods like toilet paper, books, dvds, etc that are. Edited by beatlechick, Sep 25 2008, 02:29 AM.
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| Deleted User | Sep 25 2008, 02:50 AM Post #2339 |
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Obama and McCain Issue Joint Statement on the Economy As agreed upon and promised earlier in the day, rival Sens. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.), have issued a joint statement on the economy, below: "The American people are facing a moment of economic crisis. No matter how this began, we all have a responsibility to work through it and restore confidence in our economy. The jobs, savings, and prosperity of the American people are at stake. Now is a time to come together - Democrats and Republicans - in a spirit of cooperation for the sake of the American people. The plan that has been submitted to Congress by the Bush Administration is flawed, but the effort to protect the American economy must not fail. This is a time to rise above politics for the good of the country. We cannot risk an economic catastrophe. Now is our chance to come together to prove that Washington is once again capable of leading this country." The statement was distributed by the Obama campaign, along with the following note: Speaking for himself, Senator Obama outlined the following principles that he calls on Senator McCain to support: I believe that several core principles should guide this legislation. First, there must be oversight. We should not hand over a blank check to the discretion of one man. We support an independent, bipartisan board to ensure accountability and complete transparency. Second, we need to protect taxpayers. There should be a path for taxpayers to recover their money, and to turn a profit if Wall Street prospers. Third, no Wall Street executive should profit from taxpayer dollars. This plan cannot be a welfare program for CEOs whose greed and irresponsibility has contributed to this crisis. Fourth, we must help families who are struggling to stay in their homes. We cannot bail out Wall Street without helping millions of families facing foreclosure on Main Street. Fifth, we both agree that this financial rescue package should move on its own without any earmarks or other measures. We have different views about the need for other action, but this must be a clean bill. This is a time to rise above politics for the good of the country. We cannot risk an economic catastrophe. This is not a Democratic problem or a Republican problem - this is an American problem. Now, we must find an American solution. |
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| Bill | Sep 25 2008, 08:10 AM Post #2340 |
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Bingo! A real leader can't just cancel everything else that's going on while he deals with something that's just popped up, and which he tried to deny as recently as a week ago. |
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 25 2008, 08:27 AM Post #2341 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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http://www.bercasio.com/movies/dems-wmd-before-iraq.wmv |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| Bill | Sep 25 2008, 09:25 AM Post #2342 |
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I am sick to death of this crap about the Dems saying Iraq had WMDs! So what if they did? One simple question: WHO STARTED THE WAR? Democrats or Republicans? There is only one correct answer. Did the Dems lie too? Yes they did. But WHO STARTED THE WAR? And who f*cked the war up after they'd started it? I'll give you a hint: it wasn't Hillary Clinton. When are Republicans going to face up to the fact that they are the ones who have been in power all this time and therefore, they are responsible for the mess today. It's that simple. Rewriting history? I'll say!
Edited by Bill, Sep 25 2008, 09:26 AM.
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| Bill | Sep 25 2008, 11:41 AM Post #2343 |
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Obama: “Presidents are going to have to deal with more than one thing at a time. It's not necessary for us to think that we can only do one thing and suspend everything else.” Word! |
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 25 2008, 12:03 PM Post #2344 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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^As far as Obama and McCain going to DC, they should have both suspended their campaigns last week and gone, rolled up their sleeves, and gone to work figuring out this issue. I can't think of a more ominous, far-reaching economic issue than this. Whether or not we bail out or how we bail out is going to effect either Presidency. If I was running for President I'd sure want to be invested in this process. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Sep 25 2008, 12:13 PM Post #2345 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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Far from suspending their campaigns, any actions they partake in now to tackle the problems of the economy will form part of their campaign for the Presidency. It is a smart move to actually do something rather than just talk about what they would do. They both, naturally, still have a job to do in their current Senate positions while running their respective campaigns and they will, inevitably, be judged on their ability to do both. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Bill | Sep 25 2008, 12:36 PM Post #2346 |
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The last time I looked, America does still have a president whose job it is to deal with this. Mind you, I wouldn't blame anyone for wishing that someone else - anyone else - were doing it. So in the space of a week, McCain has gone from saying "Don't worry, be happy," to wanting everyone to drop everything and focus solely on the economic crisis. Can anyone say "flip flop"? What we have seen over the last 5 weeks is that when the odds are against him, McCain will end up going with the most batshit crazy idea anyone can think of and hope he crashes through. Is this the temperament we want in the most powerful office in the world? |
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 25 2008, 01:04 PM Post #2347 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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We have a President, 100 Senators, and 435 Congressmen (and women) that all need to enact legislation and all need to be working on it, in my opinion. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| Bill | Sep 25 2008, 01:12 PM Post #2348 |
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I don't usually paste in whole comment pieces, but this was too good not to. http://vetvoice.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=9CB720CA83F7253F3353B37F020F8DCF?diaryId=1938
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| maccascruff | Sep 25 2008, 05:45 PM Post #2349 |
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Sing the Changes
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Presidents must be able to focus on more than one thing and Obama has it right. I see that an agreement has been reached in principle and I don't think McCain and Obama have met with Bush yet. Was all this drama really necessary. Like the article about the troops still having to fight, Bill. |
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| maccascruff | Sep 25 2008, 05:45 PM Post #2350 |
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Sing the Changes
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Two words: absolutely not |
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| Deleted User | Sep 25 2008, 07:36 PM Post #2351 |
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![]() I'm John McCain and I approve this flip flop. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 25 2008, 11:07 PM Post #2352 |
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2008-09-25 Sarah Palin's Link to Witch-Hunting Pastor Thomas Muthee (6:43) Columnist Clarence Page told Keith Olbermann on Wednesday's Countdown that it is "remarkable" that Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin's conenction with a witch-hunting Kenyan pastor hasn't gotten more attention, especially compared with the flap last spring over Barack Obama's own pastor problem. "Only after Senator Obama ran for national office," noted Page, "do we see, what, thirty seconds of video from Reverend Wright all over the news, giving us the impression of a firebrand and the image of Obama as some kind of a black nationalist or something. We don't see any of that with Sarah Palin. It's really quite remarkable to me." Palin has linked Kenyan pastor Thomas Muthee's prayer over her at the Assembly of God Church in Wasilla in 2005, calling for the success of her campaign, with her victory the following year in the Alaska gubernatorial race. Murthee began his ministry in 1989, when he accused a local woman who ran a "divination center" of being a witch, blamed her for causing a series of fatal car accidents, and eventually caused her to be run out of town. According to the Times of London, "After Pastor Muthee declared Mama Jane a witch, the townspeople became suspicious and began to turn on her, demanding that she be stoned. Public outrage eventually led the police to raid her home, where they fired gunshots, killing a pet python which they believed to be a demon." 2005-10-16 Thomas Muthee, Pastor of Wasilla Church, Exorcises Witchcraft from Sarah Palin (8:19) The Guardian reported yesterday that a new video has emerged showing Sarah Palin playing a central role in a church service in Alaska in which witchcraft is denounced. Thomas Muthee, a Kenyan pastor, made a passionate plea: “In the name of Jesus, in the name of Jesus, every form of witchcraft is what you rebuke. In the name of Jesus, in the name of Jesus, father make away now.” I am sure that the US press will be asking her questions about this very soon. Or as soon as the McCain campaign let’s her talk to the press after her sterling performance in the interview with Katie Couric on CBS last night. |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 26 2008, 01:50 AM Post #2353 |
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MaccaMomma
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Oh my..... All these personal attacks on all the candidates is getting so tiring....just today I saw a new campaign ad that is only being run on NBC; note that it is NOT from the Obama campaign: Attack on McCain's health Ad |
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| beatlechick | Sep 26 2008, 01:51 AM Post #2354 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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This is true to a certain degree. As much as I am not a fan of the dumbass currently President, he still has the ability of keeping on top of the financial situation (albeit a few weeks to late) and do his job. Oh, strike that. This was done under his watch and he has a major stake in correcting his own failure. Bad example! My bad! Up until the point where McCain came in, there was a tentative agreement this morning. McCain comes in and that tentative agreement is all but gone. Yeah, he really helped out here. The way I heard it, they were announcing the agreement this morning just before he arrived. Then after the announcement he took it upon himself to go to House Republicans and talk to them. I guess it is just the House Republicans who have any concerns whatsoever in the US financial problems. Where was the bipartisonship on this? After he spoke to the House Republicans, they decided to rethink the agreement. Do I think it was wise of McCain to suspend his campaign? As an Obama supporter, yes I do! Do I think it wise for McCain to not show up at the debate? Again, as an Obama supporter yes I do! But like most people I know, you have to be able to juggle your job responsibilities to be able to get anywhere in life. If you can't juggle, you fail. Here is a video from CNN that kind of states that he may be losing votes, I did hear others state they were for McCain but this has led them to rethink their vote to Obama or Nader. Just scroll down to where it says this iReporters talk $700b bailout http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/25/campaign.wrap/index.html#cnnSTCVideo |
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| beatlechick | Sep 26 2008, 01:54 AM Post #2355 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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This is getting ridiculous. |
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| maccascruff | Sep 26 2008, 02:20 AM Post #2356 |
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Sing the Changes
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Saw Katie Couric's interview with Palin today. Palin never did answer the question and finally said she'd get back to Katie on the question. It shouldn't be this hard. |
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| BeatleBarb | Sep 26 2008, 02:56 AM Post #2357 |
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This was embarrasing to watch. Maybe if they quit protecting her, she would at least get some practice with interviews however, will someone explain to me what she meant about the proximity of Alaska to Russia and how that constitutes foreign policy experience or familiarity? |
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| Deleted User | Sep 26 2008, 03:36 AM Post #2358 |
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Deleted User
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This isn't a personal attack. This is a video of Sarah Palin being exorcised of witchcraft by the Pastor that she claimed was responsible for her being elected Governor of Alaska. If you haven't watched it, you should. This version has subtitles explaining what is happening for those who can't understand the Kenyan pastor's accent and the transcript is below. Thomas Muthee Sermon: Why Sarah Palin? October 16, 2005 (6:01) Thomas Muthee October 11, 2005 In a moment, I’ll be asking you that we pray for Sarah, and I’ll tell you the reason why. When we talk about transformation of a community, we are talking about God invading seven areas in our society. Let me repeat that one more time. When we talk about transformation of a society, a community, it’s where we see God’s Kingdom infiltrate, influence seven areas in our society. Number one is the spiritual aspect of our society. Mainly, the church for a long time has just concentrated on that dimension, whereby we simply want people saved, we want them to go to heaven, we want them delivered, and that’s it. But I’ll tell you something: if all we do is come to the church and get people saved and then they go, I don’t think much will happen in our society. So the second area whereby God wants to penetrate in our society is in the economic area. The Bible says the wealth of the wicked is stored up for the righteous. It is high time that we have top Christian businessmen, businesswomen, bankers, you know, who are men and women of integrity, running the economics of our nations. That’s what we are waiting for. That’s part and parcel of transformation. If you look at the Israelites, you know, that’s how they won. And that’s how they are, even today. When we will see that, you know, the talk transport us in the lands. We see, you know, the bankers. We see the people holding the paths. They are believers. We will not have the kind of corruption that we are hearing in our societies. So we go to the third area, it’s in the area of politics. Tell your neighbor, “politics.” Do you know what I discovered? This is funny. The people who actually split churches, they have the gift of politics, but they are exercising it in the wrong place. That’s what I came to know. There are people who are wired to politics because God wants to take the political, you know, dimension of our societies. And those people should be prayed for. That’s why I was, you know, I was so glad to see Sarah here. We should pray for her, we should back her up. And, you know, come the day of voting, we should be there, not just praying, we should be there. And I’m saying this because that’s what I’m telling our church. I’m telling them that we need this in Parliament. In here is what you call Congressmen, you know, you know, the, the Governors, we need the bretheren right inside there. Is anybody hearing me? You know, because who will change the laws of the lands? The problem is do we just pray, but we do nothing about it. If the believers had not done something in this country, your president would not be in office today. Yes or no? Am I right? Number three, or number four, it’s the area of education. We need believers who are educationists. If we had them, today we would not be talking about the Ten Commandments being kicked out of the church, I mean out of our schools. They would still be there. One of the things that you, you know, I would love you to know, I’m a child of revival of the Seventies, and that revival swept through the schools. They are open to preaching, you know, open. Open. Wide open. You go to any school, there is what we call Christian Union. Christian Union is nothing more but a bunch of kids that are born again, spirit-filled, tongue-talking, devil-casting. Is anybody hearing me? All over the country! Is anybody hearing me? We need God taking over our education system! Otherwise, we, if we have God in our schools, we will not have kids being taught, you know, how to worship Buddha, how to worship Mohammed, we will not have in the curriculum witchcraft and sorcery. Is anybody hearing me? The other area is in the area of media. We need believers in the media. We need God taking over the media in our lands. Otherwise we will not have all the junk coming out of, you know, coming out of the media. And not only that, we need God t___ [period of silence in video]. Why can’t we have our living church in Hollywood? Guess what will happen. If we have a living church right in Hollywood, we would not have all the kind of pornography that we are having. Is anybody hearing me? And the last area is in the area of government. Hello? We need believers there. We need men and women of integrity. You know, as the Secretaries of State. We need them right there. People that are born again, spirit filled, people who know God, and people who are serious with God. So in a moment if you do not mind, I’ll ask, you know, even before I go to do this thing, you know, I’ll ask Sarah, would you mind to come please? Would you mind? Come, please. Let’s all stand up, and let’s hold hands all over this house. Come, Pastor, come. (Sarah Palin comes to the stage in front of the congregation. Sarah Palin bows her head stretches her forearms forward and places the palms of her hands upward. Thomas Muthee lays hands on Sarah Palin’s head. Pastor Ed Kalnin and unidentifed man lay hands on Sarah Palin’s shoulders.) Thank you, Jesus. Let’s all pray. Let’s pray for Sarah. Hallelujah! Come on, hold your hands up and raise them. Hold them and raise them up here! Come on, talk to God about this woman! Come on, talk to God about this woman we declare favor from today. We say favor, favor, favor! We say praise my God! We say grace to be rained upon her in the name of Jesus. My God, you make your judgement, you make room. You make ways in the desert, and I’m asking you today, we are asking you as the body of Christ in this valley, make a way for Sarah, even in the [inaudible]. Make her way my God. Bring finances her way, even in the campaign in the name of Jesus, and above all give her the personnel, give her men and women that will back her up in the name of Jesus. We want righteousness in this state. We want righteousness in this nation. Because you say [inaudible] in the name of Jesus. Our Father, use her to turn this nation the other way around. Use her to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to the fathers so that the curse that has been there long can be broken. In the name of Jesus. Father, we thank you today. We come in the hindrance of the enemy, standing in her way to there. In the name of Jesus, in the name of Jesus! Every form of witchcraft, it will be rebuked in the name of Jesus. Father, make her way now. In Jesus’ name, Amen. Let’s all be seated. [Sarah Palin returns to her seat.] Sarah Palin was in attendance. After the electioneering sermon, Sarah Palin actively received Muthee’s blessing for her campaign. Sarah Palin is asking for a lot from American voters. Sarah Palin is asking American voters to place her in position to be the President of the United States of America should the elderly John McCain die or be incapacitated. American voters have the right to ask: is Sarah Palin on board with Thomas Muthee’s plan using Palin to “invade,” to “infiltrate,” and to “influence” American government on behalf of evangelical Christianity? |
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| retrollama | Sep 26 2008, 04:14 AM Post #2359 |
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![]() Seriously, though... this truly frightens me. |
| What a long, strange trip it's been.... | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 26 2008, 04:35 AM Post #2360 |
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MaccaMomma
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Lapis, I did watch the video. I'm not a video expert, but I found that the voice & video didn't match up very well. Actually when that prayer started, the voice changed a lot! Even if this transcript/video is accurate, it is just just another attack on another candidate in order to discredit them or make them look crazy. They tried it with Obama and Jeremiah Wright, as well! If you know anything about the Assemblies of God church, you would know that they have their specific beliefs on demons, witches, etc. All religions have their own take on such matters. Pastor Muthee and Sarah Palin Catholic League president Bill Donohue said today that "for the past two decades, Americans have been lectured by educators and the chattering class that we must respect cultural, religious, racial and ethnic diversity. It seems that exceptions to the creed of multiculturalism are only made when it suits the ideological agenda of the left. ... Witchcraft is a sad reality in many parts of Africa, resulting in scores of deaths in Kenya over the past two decades. Bishop Muthee’s blessing, then, was simply a reflection of his cultural understanding of evil. While others are not obliged to accept his interpretation, all can be expected to respect it. More than that — Muthee should be hailed for asking God to shield Palin from harmful forces, however they may be manifested. And for this he is mocked and Palin ridiculed?" Wikipedia on Muthee |
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| Deleted User | Sep 26 2008, 06:13 AM Post #2361 |
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Deleted User
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I have no idea if that video is authentic, but it sure looks authentic and the facts have been auntenticated by numerous reputable news organizations. So, you are fine with what is being said in the video if it is authenticated? It seems like a serious crossing of the boundaries of church and state and makes Palin seem dangerously close to a cult member in light of her well-documented connection to Thomas Muthee. I am just waiting to see if CNN picks up on this story after the economic rescue package is passed. I was really put off by this last part. We say grace to be rained upon her in the name of Jesus. My God, you make your judgement, you make room. You make ways in the desert, and I’m asking you today, we are asking you as the body of Christ in this valley, make a way for Sarah, even in the [inaudible]. Make her way my God. ]Bring finances her way, even in the campaign in the name of Jesus, and above all give her the personnel, give her men and women that will back her up in the name of Jesus. We want righteousness in this state. We want righteousness in this nation. Because you say [inaudible] in the name of Jesus. Our Father, use her to turn this nation the other way around. Use her to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to the fathers so that the curse that has been there long can be broken. In the name of Jesus. Father, we thank you today. We come in the hindrance of the enemy, standing in her way to there. In the name of Jesus, in the name of Jesus! Every form of witchcraft, it will be rebuked in the name of Jesus. Father, make her way now. In Jesus’ name, Amen. Your Wikipedia link gives us this: Muthee and his wife returned home to Kenya from Scotland, where he had finished his graduate studies, in 1988. They soon felt that they were "called by God to Kiambu" and after six months of prayer, research, and "spiritual mapping," they came to believe that a witch known as "Mama Jane" was the cause of crime and spiritual oppression in the area. Muthee alleged that "top government and business leaders [were] afraid to do anything without her approval," that at least one person per month would die in a car accident in front of her "divination house" (otherwise known as Emmanuel Clinic), and that she harassed his congregation. According to Muthee, soon after his followers began to pray that God would either save or oust Mama Jane, three young people died in another apparent accident in front of Mama Jane's clinic. The angry townsfolk wanted to stone her in retaliation, and when the police entered Mama Jane's home to intervene, they were apparently startled by what they believed to be a demon and shot her pet python to death. Mama Jane was then questioned by police, after which she left town. Since then, Muthee has frequently referred to his witch-hunt as an example of successful spiritual warfare. The event was depicted in two videos by George Otis, Jr., in which Muthee claimed that the crime rate in Kiambu dropped drastically after Mama Jane left. However, Workgroup "Back to the Bible," headed by Pastor Rien van de Kraats of Kamperland, Netherlands, found no police reports or any other sources that backed up this claim. |
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| beatlechick | Sep 26 2008, 06:26 AM Post #2362 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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I most certainly do know the Assembly of God Church. Been to it and friends of mine had converted to it until they saw the light and converted to being a Lutheran. This Church is very much open to mockery by others. I'm sorry but I love horror movies and do believe that witchcraft does exist but I also know that witches do belong to religions including Judaism and Christianity. Not the Coven type Churches but regular mainstream Churches. I also know that there is witchcraft used all over the world. Some good (white witches) and some bad. The white witches also protect from the black witchcraft. My best friend's mother is a white witch who did nothing to harm anybody. This being said, I could not watch the video at all. I do know that there are both the black and white witches in Africa, as there is in much of the world including the US, and I think that just because the majority of us here don't believe in witchcraft is no reason to belittle those that do. I do have to say that the Assembly of God Churches is a very strange Church. People like me, who believe that all people (including Gays) should be allowed into any Church of God, are not welcomed there. They weren't exactly the most tolerant Church I have been to, and I have been to many including the Southern Baptist Church, and make the local Catholic Churches look good. This stuff about Sarah Palin being blessed by a Pastor and asked to be protected is just a distraction from the real issues. |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Sep 26 2008, 07:08 AM Post #2363 |
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LOLcat Freak
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I have several friends who are Pagan and are witches and they would be very offended by some of the things said here. One is a Republican too. |
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 26 2008, 09:58 AM Post #2364 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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Sounds to me like somebody is on a witch hunt. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| Deleted User | Sep 26 2008, 03:54 PM Post #2365 |
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Deleted User
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Literally!
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| maccascruff | Sep 26 2008, 06:18 PM Post #2366 |
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Sing the Changes
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I haven't watched and won't watch the so-called church video. I've just seen what Palin has attempted to do with Charlie Gibson and Katie Couris. She doesn't answer the questions. She hasn't a clue as to how to answer if the campaign has not given her the answer to parrot. Palin totally frightens me also. Edited by maccascruff, Sep 26 2008, 06:18 PM.
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 26 2008, 07:13 PM Post #2367 |
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MaccaMomma
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I totally agree.
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 26 2008, 07:37 PM Post #2368 |
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MaccaMomma
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Lapis, To address your concerns about this (non)issue.... remember that Muthee lives in a non-western world where spiritism is very real to them. The Wikipedia link was simply to show you that he's not a total "nut job." If you look at the rest of the page, he holds a Master's degree and has done a great deal of humanitarian work. (Muthee was a speaker at the first Exchange Africa-Australia Summit, held in Nairobi, Kenya from April 28 - May 1, 2008, at which "pastors, leaders, missionaries and business people joined together to strategically plan for significant impact on the nations of Africa." Muthee is also currently involved with Restoration Alliance in providing potable water to Kenya.) Another point is that he is a traveling preacher who prayed for blessings on Palin; he's not "her" pastor. I don't have a problem with anyone praying for someone to request God's blessings and protection. And if in his non-western way of thinking, he mentions "witchcraft," so what? Did Palin have control of what this man was praying at the time? I haven't noticed Palin trying to push her religious ideas on anyone in the realm of goverment. Every candidate has their religion; and every religion has its "quirks." So to answer your question....no, I'm not bothered by it. I'm more worried about our economy right now. And frankly, we need all the prayer we can get!
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Sep 27 2008, 12:02 AM Post #2369 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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I'd just like to address something that was raised in the 'feminism' thread and that's the question of respect for John McCain. I'd respect the man more if he had the courage of his convictions and hadn't "changed his mind" on quite a few issues he disagreed with the mainstream Republican party about. I'd also respect his military service more if he didn't use it as a political tool as much. The amount of times McCain wedges the fact that he was a POW into his speeches or as a response to a question, no matter the irrelavance, doesn't really sit comfortably with me. My Great-Uncle was a POW and he never spoke about it... it's almost undignified to use something like that as a way to tout votes. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| maccascruff | Sep 27 2008, 01:22 AM Post #2370 |
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Sing the Changes
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I also have an uncle who was a POW and I have never, ever heard him speak about out, other than to show us when we were kids, his feet. He lost some toes when the North Koreans left him for dead and he was too injured to get out of a trench. My mother has told me his story, not him. |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Sep 27 2008, 01:57 AM Post #2371 |
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LOLcat Freak
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Check out Twitter's Election Coverage. Twitter is the new way to talk politics.
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| beatlechick | Sep 27 2008, 04:23 AM Post #2372 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Okay, no one has brought up the debate so I will start. They both did a good job, but I'm sorry Obama was better. Not just in his overall speaking but him trying to, and looking at McCain to directly address him showed more of who he is and what we can expect. I heard one political pundit state that she felt Obama was showing some disrespect by calling McCain, John. I felt that McCain was showing Obama total disrespect by pretending Obama was not even in the room. He never once directly addressed Obama verbally or could not even look at him. That reminded me of when my mom and I would get into fights and I would start getting the upper edge to the fight. My mom couldn't totally ignore me but would not look at me when I spoke or when she would speak to me. I was happy to see that McCain did not go overboard in talking about his imprisonment. Just drove me nuts that McCain could not even look at Obama. I want my President to be able to look into the eye of the person they are addressing regardless if they agree with their issue or not. We all deserve to be heard and not acknowledging the other person's presence is totally disrespectful.
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| BeatleBarb | Sep 27 2008, 04:36 AM Post #2373 |
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Joe Biden was there to comment and give his impressions for the Democrats. Does anyone know why Palin wasn't there and we got Gulliani instead? Personally, I can't stand listening to that guy. |
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| beatlechick | Sep 27 2008, 04:39 AM Post #2374 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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I was watching the after debate stuff on CNN and after talking to Biden, Wolf Blitzer said that he would hope that Palin would come and talk with them. Anderson Cooper stated, "Don't count on it!" I just about spit out my beer all over the carpet!
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| Mia Culpa | Sep 27 2008, 05:00 AM Post #2375 |
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McCain was addressing the audience. He's not trying to get Obama's vote. |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| beatlechick | Sep 27 2008, 05:05 AM Post #2376 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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When somebody speaks to you, you are expected to look back. It's called respect. To me, he seemed to be looking at Jim Lehrer and no one else. If you look at a lot of the blogs, even McCain supporters are questioning this. I don't care whose vote he is trying to get, you need to look at your opponent and not address them as if they were out of the room. |
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| maccascruff | Sep 27 2008, 05:05 AM Post #2377 |
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Sing the Changes
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I'm not sorry Obama was better. I'm thrilled Obama was better. Our local Fox affiliate graded the debate on the 9 PM news. They gave Obama all A's or A-'s. McCain did not get a single A. Remember this is a Fox affiliate. I loved it. |
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| maccascruff | Sep 27 2008, 05:06 AM Post #2378 |
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Sing the Changes
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I can hardly wait for the Biden/Palin debate. She has a lot of work to do if she is going to redeem herself after her Katie Couric interviews. |
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| beatlechick | Sep 27 2008, 05:07 AM Post #2379 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Haven't seen that interview yet. |
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| BeatleBarb | Sep 27 2008, 05:24 AM Post #2380 |
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My overall impression was that both candidates faired well. I felt McCain appeared agitated while Obama seemed more self assured and measured. Of course, I am more aligned with Obama's politics and philosophies, so it wasn't a surprise to me that I felt Obama did better - I liked what he said better but I was attempting to be objective and listened for substance over style. But it did bother me that McCain didn't look at or address Obama. I've witnessed many debates and it seems more credible to me to do so - not aggressive, just more engaging. McCain keeps commenting on Obama's lack of experience and this is no surprise. But good leadership is more than experience. If that was all that was needed, why is the U.S. in such a mess? There's been a boat load of experienced politicians running the show for the last eight years. My mother has more experience because she's lived more years, but that doesn't make her more qualified in many matters. In fact, her longevity is now working against her. . |
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| Mia Culpa | Sep 27 2008, 05:37 AM Post #2381 |
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That one should be the most interesting. Nobody knows how Palin will do and Biden has a long history of saying whatever stupid thing enters his mind. |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| beatlechick | Sep 27 2008, 06:13 AM Post #2382 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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And she is getting the same rep, too "I have foreign policy experience. I can see Russia from parts of Alaska. Or...........Russian jets fly over Alaska and that gives me experience." If that is the case, I live just a few miles from another country, too. You can see that other country from parts of my state AND their jets fly to our local airports even. Does that give me foreign policy experience?
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| Bill | Sep 27 2008, 12:59 PM Post #2383 |
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Seems like stating the painfully obvious to me. So is this more or less ridiculous than spreading claims that Obama is a secret Muslim who wants to destroy American culture? I'm just askin'.
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| vidgamerjon | Sep 27 2008, 01:02 PM Post #2384 |
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bullsh*t!!! When they introduced her she was kicking Obama's ass left and right with what she was saying. I haven't seen the interviews so I can't judge on the merits of those, but from what I've seen she's a damn good speaker. |
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The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today Is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips Then walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.--dcTalk | |
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| Bill | Sep 27 2008, 01:07 PM Post #2385 |
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Indeed they did. Come to think of it, who are "they"? I seem to remember someone with a name remarkably similar to yours piling on at the time, but now that it transpires Palin has an even crazier preacher, it's now a non-issue? ![]() I know I keep saying this, but you can't have it both ways. I appreciate you posting that quote from Bill Donohue. He is right to say that witchcraft has caused deaths in Kenya. It's caused the deaths of women who were hunted as witches by the likes of Palin's spiritual leader. |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
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| Bill | Sep 27 2008, 01:26 PM Post #2386 |
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As for the debate I think they both performed admirably. On the class level, I think McCain was rather condescending towards Obama and I think Obama, when he made his list, could have made is point just as strongly by saying, "that was wrong," instead of "you were wrong." It's utterly ridiculous to suggest that talking to less than friendly countries without preconditions automatically legitimises everything they may say or do. Obama should have made that point and he missed an opportunity by not doing so. Now for what they didn't say - straight talk on the war: Is it true that violence has been reduced since the troop surge? Yes it is, keeping in mind that "reduced" is a relative term. There are three reasons for the reduction. In order, they are, 1) The US is PAYING the insurgents to not shoot at them, 2) The ethnic cleansers have run out of people to kill, and 3) The troop surge. Neither candidate has had the guts to talk about that and I very much doubt they will. |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
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| Pip | Sep 27 2008, 01:53 PM Post #2387 |
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I missed the debate but it's being shown on BBC Parliament later so I hope to catch it then. |
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I go by many names...... some call me badger boy, some call me wimpypimpy, others call me totally silk, some have been known to call me Pip, some call me Cillit Bang... | |
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| maccascruff | Sep 27 2008, 02:38 PM Post #2388 |
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Sing the Changes
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There is a difference between a scripted speech and an interview. She does a terrible interview and acted like she didn't know what she was talking about. She seems to be able to only parrot talking points. She is quite good at that. Transcript of interview with Katie Couric: [Couric] You've cited Alaska's proximity to Russia as part of your foreign policy experience. What did you mean by that? [Palin] That Alaska has a very narrow maritime border between a foreign country, Russia and on our other side the land uh boundary that we have with uh Canada ah ah y.. yo.. It's funny that a comment like that was uh kind of made to uh .. mm .. chara.. .. I don't know ... you know .. reporters .. [Couric] Mocked? [Palin] .. Yeah mocked. I guess that's the word. Yeah. Um. .... [Couric] Well, explain to me why that enhances your foreign policy credentials. [Palin] (with accent and pursed lips) Well .. it certainly does because ... our ... our next door neighbors are foreign countries. They're in the State that I am the executive of. And there is Russia ... [Couric] Have you ever been involved in any negotiations for example with the Russians. [Palin] (nodding yes) .. we have trade missions back and forth .. we... we do .. It's very important when .. when you consider even national security issues with Russia as .. Putin ... Where's his head? ... and ... and ... ahh ... comes into .. ah .. the airspace of the United States of America ... wh .. where do they go? It.. It's Alaska .. it's just right over the border. It is .. from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation .. Russia .. because they are right there. That are right next to our state. http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4478156n Edited by maccascruff, Sep 27 2008, 02:52 PM.
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| Rose | Sep 27 2008, 03:00 PM Post #2389 |
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Well, here's another clue for you all, the Walrus was Paul...
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My opinion is that Obama won...but not by much. McCain looked uncomfortable and wary. I don't think he's very good at this, I can see why he tried to get out of it. It brought to mind the Kennedy/Nixon debate...The younger, assured candidate and the sweaty, unsure candidate. Is a picture worth a thousand...votes?
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![]() "I'm in awe of McCartney. He's about the only one that I am in awe of. He can do it all. And he's never let up... He's just so damn effortless." ~ Bob Dylan | |
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| Mia Culpa | Sep 27 2008, 03:45 PM Post #2390 |
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If you haven't seen the interviews how can you say it's bullsh*t? |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| Mia Culpa | Sep 27 2008, 03:51 PM Post #2391 |
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So much for change.
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| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| Mia Culpa | Sep 27 2008, 03:57 PM Post #2392 |
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Too bad she's not articulate like Obama. http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=ThEAO0lt4Dw |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| Bill | Sep 27 2008, 04:07 PM Post #2393 |
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I have no problem with people umming and ahing so long as they say something useful at the end of it. There's a difference between being thoughtful and just playing for time. |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Sep 27 2008, 04:43 PM Post #2394 |
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LOLcat Freak
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It was actually fun last night listening to the debate, because I was interacting with people on FriendFeed. Someone opened up a special room for the debates and the Election and the conversation was really interesting and very civil. Just to let you know the majority of people there are leaning towards the left, but there are a few leaning towards the right on there too. |
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| Mia Culpa | Sep 27 2008, 04:57 PM Post #2395 |
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You know if McCain talked like Foghorn Leghorn Obama's supporters would be all over him. |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| BeatleBarb | Sep 27 2008, 05:05 PM Post #2396 |
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I felt Obama displayed a more presidential temperment while McCain was condescending and snipy (is that a word?) What I thought was really interesting was McCain's characterization of Obama as inflexible because he doesn't support the surge. Who is he kidding? Talk about stubborn and stuck in the past! |
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| beatlechick | Sep 27 2008, 08:37 PM Post #2397 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Yes but that was when they introduced her, Jon. This is now a month later and she is stating the same lines over and over again but when asked questions, I did see some of the questions Charlie Gibson asked and he was not as tough on her as he can be, she is not as good on speaking as she is while out stumping. |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Sep 28 2008, 12:08 AM Post #2398 |
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LOLcat Freak
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Even though I listened to the debate on the radio, I could tell that McCain's blood was boiling by the way he acted. Yes, both interrupted each other at times, but McCain did more than Obama did. McCain just really seemed very disrespectful, IMHO. |
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| wackadoo | Sep 28 2008, 12:09 AM Post #2399 |
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I saw it completely opposite of this. I saw McCain feeling confident and self-assured and Obama being nervous and not very articulate. Honestly, while listening to both of them, I couldn't help but feel like Obama was a little kid standing next to his grandfather!!!! One had wisdom and experience and one is trying to fill shoes that he hasn't grown into as yet. McCain was reacting to Obama much like I was. "What the hell is he trying to say????" I fully grasp McCain's vision and I have yet to figure out what Obama is trying to say when he talks. |
![]() RIP Steve. I love and miss you. | |
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| Bill | Sep 28 2008, 12:14 AM Post #2400 |
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The question is whether McCain fully grasps McCain's vision since it's changed so much in the last two years. |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
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