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| 2008 U.S. Presidential Election | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 22 2007, 05:49 AM (37,424 Views) | |
| Bill | Sep 16 2008, 12:44 AM Post #2201 |
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Looks like "smear tactics" are in the eye of the beholder. I know I'm not supposed me mention "that thing," so I'll just observe that it's not as much fun when the shoe is on the other foot, is it?
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| Bill | Sep 16 2008, 12:49 AM Post #2202 |
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And on the day of the biggest dive on Wall St since Sept 11, hands up who agrees with John McCain that the fundamentals of the economy are sound? Please give your reasons. Harry Shearer said it best yesterday: "You hire a C student, you get C work."
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 12:53 AM Post #2203 |
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MaccaMomma
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I didn't accuse you of having "hatred" for Sarah Palin; but certainly you must feel the venom for her out "there!" Maybe "fear" is a better word. If you're not familiar with home-schooling, then yes, they can have the day off to be with Mom, as long as they stay on track with their studies. Even Olympic stars, child actors, missionary kids, etc. etc. do the same! And I didn't say it wasn't a fair question; but it wasn't necessarily asked in a fair tone; more of a mocking tone, if you ask me!
Edited by Bag O' Nails, Sep 16 2008, 12:55 AM.
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 12:57 AM Post #2204 |
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MaccaMomma
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Nope! As long as there is dual politeness, I can handle spirited chat!
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| beatlechick | Sep 16 2008, 12:58 AM Post #2205 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 12:58 AM Post #2206 |
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MaccaMomma
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These are silly! Guess there are lots of people getting on the marketing bandwagon!
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| Bill | Sep 16 2008, 12:59 AM Post #2207 |
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Heidi, I cannot be responsible for what motives you project onto me. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 01:03 AM Post #2208 |
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MaccaMomma
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| BlueMolly2009 | Sep 16 2008, 01:04 AM Post #2209 |
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LOLcat Freak
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Hehehe, Cathy!!! |
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 01:06 AM Post #2210 |
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MaccaMomma
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Can you substantiate that as fact for me, Bill?
Edited by Bag O' Nails, Sep 16 2008, 01:09 AM.
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| Bill | Sep 16 2008, 01:09 AM Post #2211 |
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I don't want this to get lost in the smiley wars. I'd be interested to know the answer, if anyone has one. |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 01:14 AM Post #2212 |
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MaccaMomma
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Sometimes a smiley is worth a thousand words. Gotta run to make more Republican calls; will try to get back to ya later!
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| Bill | Sep 16 2008, 01:19 AM Post #2213 |
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No, but you can: Pick any sentence I've posted and Google it. Unless I've already accredited it, you won't find it anywhere else. That's because I thought it out for myself. But then again, my mother's teaching qualifications come from an actual university, not from there mere fact that she has procreated. Maybe that's also why she sent me to school. My question is this: Why is exposing Sarah Palin's lies* considered "hateful," while spreading lies about Barack Obama is "asking the question"? You can't have it both ways. There's a saying about heat and kitchens Personally, I think the dignity with which the Obama campaign has responded to the smears stands in stark contrast to the Republicans' whining about treatment of Palin. *eg: "Thanks but no thanks, I'll just flip when the idea becomes unpopular and then keep the money anyway." Edited by Bill, Sep 16 2008, 01:24 AM.
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| Bill | Sep 16 2008, 01:21 AM Post #2214 |
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In news just in, Brendan Nelson has been rolled by Malcolm Turnbull as leader of the opposition. I'm sure there will be a thread about this very soon.
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| FamousGroupie | Sep 16 2008, 01:31 AM Post #2215 |
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Obsessive Saddo Fangirl
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Mr 9% has been ousted by a politician with 'bull' in his name. Anyone else see the irony? |
| I don't believe in Bondi. I don't believe in rugby league. I believe in Yoko, John Lennon, the Lost Weekend and me. | |
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| Bill | Sep 16 2008, 01:48 AM Post #2216 |
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Turnbull picked his moment. The next leader after an election loss is always going to be a sacrificial lamb and this should finally put Peter Costello out of the picture completely. I can't believe why anyone thought the gutless wonder would have any chance. In the end, he was either going to have an interesting book or a future in Parliament - but not both. Turnbull will make a good opposition leader and good oppositions make good governments. (I hope all the US voters are still reading - I'm talking to you too!) Here's what I don't understand though. From the minute Turnbull entered Parliament and definitely after he became John Howard's parly-sec, the media should have dug out Turnbull's statement from 1999 that John Howard would go down in history as the man who broke Australia's heart. They did a damn good job scrubbing that one! |
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| Bill | Sep 16 2008, 04:44 AM Post #2217 |
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This is a very interesting column that not only lays out the irresponsible economic management of the Republicans, but also why auslanders like me get upset about it. http://www.maynereport.com/articles/2008/09/16-0701-6157.html Selected highlights: We're starting to discover whether Lehman really was too big to fail as 5000 staff in the UK were told last night that $100 million in wages due this week won't be paid. Australia's industrial laws will see local staff do better, but it will be incredibly messy and the churches, charities, councils and super funds [that's 401k to our American friends]that bought $2 billion of dodgy US mortgages from its subsidiary Grange Securities will now just be one of thousands of creditors around the world. .... ANZ managed to make itself into the list of the top thirty unsecured creditors of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc, which filed for bankruptcy protection in the US yesterday afternoon, Australian time.... ANZ's two unsecured loans and one letter of credit add to just US$82 million, which is chicken feed by the standards of Lehman's largest creditor. .... National Australia Bank scrapes into the list of Lehman's top unsecured creditors with a letter of credit for US$10 million. .... A debt-funded war, grossly irresponsible tax cuts, massive financial deregulation and ridiculously loose monetary policy have combined to create this enormous global mess and a huge loss of prestige for the US. And do please click the link he cites too, http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/This-is-a-solvency-crisis-JHRLK?OpenDocument&src=sph The losses must now be either borne or socialised, and the cost of the Iraq war, on top of the Bush Administration’s tax cuts, means there is a severe limit on how much the government can wear. So which would you rather? Tax cuts, or a house and a job? It's the economy, stupid!
Edited by Bill, Sep 16 2008, 04:56 AM.
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| Deleted User | Sep 16 2008, 05:04 AM Post #2218 |
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Deleted User
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I absolutely agree with McCain on what he said today about the economy. I am just not saying which part... Quotes of the Day: Yet Senator McCain’s G.P.S. system seemed to need to recalculate during the day, as his first words in Jacksonville, Fla., caused a rainstorm of criticism. First Event: “Our economy, I think still, the fundamentals of our economy are strong,” Mr. McCain told a rally in Jacksonville. “But these are very, very difficult times.” Second Event: On “fundamentals” – “My opponents may disagree, but those fundamentals – the American worker, the innovation, the entrepreneurship, the small business – are the fundamentals of America and I think they are strong,” Mr. McCain said. “But today, are being threatened today – those fundamentals are being threatened today because of the greed by some based in Wall Street and we have got to fix it.” Today, after a weekend where legendary Lehman Brothers files for Chapter 11, Merril Lynch sells itself to Bank Of America and AIG raises capital to starve off the same fate LB is facing, John McCain says: "Fundamentals" Of US Economy Are Strong". Do you know who used that EXACT quote? President Herbert Hoover during The Great Depression. McCain: Fundamentals of Economy Are Strong (0:34) |
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| beatlechick | Sep 16 2008, 05:21 AM Post #2219 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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The bank that I go to has had its' credit rating dumped to "junk." Luckily for me, I have no investments but I really like my bank but am hearing the possiblity of yet another bank going bankrupt. My bank is Washington Mutual, aka WAMU. I have had nothing but very good service from them in the 10 or so years that I have had them. I don't want to look for another bank. I do fear that this all will have to bottom out before things can start looking good again. |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 05:25 AM Post #2220 |
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MaccaMomma
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Asking you to substantiate your statement as fact was an attempt at humor that you obviously missed. I fully realize that you already try to do that!Your emphasis seemed to be on the word "school." Are you making some kind of reference to homeschooling; or am I just reading between the lines here, Bill... Now for your question: The relentless media attacks on Palin pale in comparison to that of both Obama and McCain combined! Many women (and men alike)have come out in full force to bash her morals and not "question" her; hell hath no fury.... I googled "hatred for Sarah Palin" and found this article by David Kahane of the National Review Online: I Hate You Sarah Palin |
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| beatlechick | Sep 16 2008, 05:32 AM Post #2221 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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I am a woman, a free-thinking woman, and I don't hate her. I just don't want her as my vice-president nor my next door neighbor. |
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| Bill | Sep 16 2008, 05:32 AM Post #2222 |
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I'm sure you could Google "Barack Obama Muslim" and find plenty of fodder too. Anyone can do a loaded search and fins extremist points of view. It doesn't prove anything. The media, for the most part, have simply been trying to find out who the hell Sarah Palin is. It's not their fault if what they find goes against what she's been claiming. As for home schooling, you're absolutely right, I think it's a crock! You need qualifications to practice law, medicine and even to drive a car, yet it's somehow politically incorrect to say that most parents aren't properly equipped to educate their children on their own. I'd like to think I know a bit about education and I'll tell you right now that most parents are no remotely qualified to school their children. That doesn't make them bad parents - it's why we have schools. There might be a few notable exceptions, but for the most part, home schooling is for isolationists who want to keep their children ignorant. If your child is sick, you take him to a doctor. If your child needs an education, then take him to school! |
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| beatlechick | Sep 16 2008, 05:38 AM Post #2223 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Bill in defense of home-schooling. There are some issues that come about in home-schooling. For the most part, home-schooling (depending on districts) is monitored by the school the child would be attending. They are tested on a regular basis to make sure they are getting the appropriate education. My best friend's daughter was being harassed in her high school so she was home-schooled for a year. She has since gone on to one of the University of California schools. Not sure what she majored in but I do believe she graduated with a B+ average. Here in California, you do have to be enrolled in school. Home-schooling, you are enrolled in school. |
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| Bill | Sep 16 2008, 05:43 AM Post #2224 |
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I've said my piece about home-schooling on another thread. I accept that there are notable exceptions but I stand by my view of the concept. And I've love to know how the Palin kids can be home-schooled while both parents have high-pressure full-time jobs.
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 05:44 AM Post #2225 |
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MaccaMomma
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I thought the article was poignant and well-written. No one said that everything you find by googling something would be truth; there are things out there that are opinion and not fact! The media is biased and you know it! It's one thing to report the facts; it's another thing to pounce with attempt to destroy! And surprise surprise, I disagree with your opinion on homeschooling! Is it for everyone? Certainly not! But it is an alternative! I personally know many people who have homeschooled their children because the schools were not safe, poorly rated, had low test scores, etc. and believe me, these kids are not backwards nor dumb! And their parents are not barefooted, gun-toting, Bible-thumping hillbillies, either! Many of these kids are now attending universities and score at the top of their classes...so don't tell me it doesn't work! It can and does. And that's a fact.
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| beatlechick | Sep 16 2008, 05:48 AM Post #2226 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Bill, for the most part I do agree with you. However homeschooling can work if done properly, i.e. under the auspice of one with credentials, and not as a yearly substitute for a real school. Real interaction with other students and teachers. And certainly not for religious differences. Edited by beatlechick, Sep 16 2008, 05:50 AM.
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| Bill | Sep 16 2008, 05:51 AM Post #2227 |
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Don't you dare try to tell me what I know! The implication in that comment is that I am lying and I take that charge very, very seriously! It is physically impossible that something as broad and as vaguely defined as "the media" can all be out to personally destroy one person. Palin has lied about the bridge to nowhere and the media has reported that fact. And this is the standard Republican tactic - when they don't like the truth being told, they cry about "media bias." What happened to "that's politics"? You can't have it both ways.
I'm willing to wager that the successful home-schoolers would have actually had teaching credentials. I could be wrong about that. Here's your chance to shoot me down.
Edited by Bill, Sep 16 2008, 05:54 AM.
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| beatlechick | Sep 16 2008, 05:54 AM Post #2228 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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By the same token, during the Democratic primaries the Clinton camp saw that they were being attacked whilst Obama was not. Obama's camp saw that they were being attacked whilst Hillary was not. |
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| Bill | Sep 16 2008, 05:55 AM Post #2229 |
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And the winner was the one who didn't act like a crybaby about it. What does this tell us? |
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| Deleted User | Sep 16 2008, 05:57 AM Post #2230 |
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Deleted User
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Bill is very funny angry. DONT YOU DARE!!!
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| Deleted User | Sep 16 2008, 05:57 AM Post #2231 |
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Deleted User
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Sarah Palin has a lot of catching up to do in the 'false accusations against her' department compared to Obama and according to Snopes.com. Snopes.com Sarah Palin Snopes.com Barack Obama |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Sep 16 2008, 07:00 AM Post #2232 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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Turns out that I disagree with the impartiality of that "test" 100% of the time. Do you and the makers of that "test" really think people are that stupid? Don't answer that. |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 07:12 AM Post #2233 |
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MaccaMomma
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Relax, Bill...no need to get so angry! I have never accused to your face nor behind you back that you are a liar. And I have no intentions of trying to "shoot you down," either. Maybe I'll take a break here for awhile. I'm sure you won't mind.
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| Bill | Sep 16 2008, 07:16 AM Post #2234 |
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We're cool Heidi. ![]() I'm sorry I reacted like that. It's another of those opinion vs fact things. My opinion ( ) is that it's naive to project any motives onto "the media" other than sales and ratings.
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 16 2008, 09:20 AM Post #2235 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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My kids go to regular government schools but I know several families that home school and their kids are way ahead of the government schools in their education. I judged a debate of home schooled high schoolers and was amazed at their abilities. |
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 16 2008, 09:32 AM Post #2236 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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That test is biased. Reminds me of some of the political crap I get, "Do you oppose cancer, then send us your money". However, surprise, surprise, according to the test, I disagree with Obama 94% of the time. Also, large portions of the US "media" have a distinct liberal bias and are looking for whatever they can to attack Palin. (I used to work for some of them). All is fair in politics, I guess. It is backfiring like the dig that McCain can't work a computer. Turns out he can hardly use a keyboard because of his war and prison camp wounds and injuries. According to the polls, the electoral vote is presently dead even. |
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| Bill | Sep 16 2008, 10:45 AM Post #2237 |
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There was a time - back around the time when McCain entered the Senate - when being unable to use a keyboard might have precluded one from using a computer, but with the advent of graphical user interfaces and pointing devices, we are no longer hamstrung by humble keyboard skills. In translation, THESE DAYS WE USE A MOUSE! Geez! I've taught people who are far more infirm than John McCain how to use a computer. And if someone with the motor skills of Stephen Hawking can use one, then what's McCain's problem? Interesting aside: According to the Bush administrations definition of torture, John McCain was not tortured. But you're right that the Dems need to get away from the personality bullsh*t and remind people that the economic policies of the Bush administration - the ones that McCains thinks are strong - have led to another two collapses, unemployment, homelessness and despair. I would have thought that those who claim to be interested in the real issues might have something to say about that, but it seems they'd rather squeeze out a few more crocodile tears over Sarah Palin and "media bias." HEY, LOOK OVER THERE! A KITTEN!
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Sep 16 2008, 01:12 PM Post #2238 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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I just want to say that I apologise to anyone I may have offended in this thread. I do have some very strong views about this election and they are motivated by wanting a better America and, consequently, a better world. I realise that my idea of a better America may differ from yours and that I may express them a tad strongly, but it's something I feel extremely passionate about. My political opinions would never influence any kind of moderating or administrative decisions I would make here, neither would disagreeing with a member over said opinions - I'd like to thank everyone who said that as well - and when I post on this board, I generally post as a member. If I make a moderator/admin post, I will post in blue, like this, unless the post specifically concerns the board and it is completely obvious (such as the threads in the 'Help!' section), in which case I won't bother. Nobody, to my knowledge, has ever complained about having mod decisions go against them because of their point of view. This board isn't big enough to have an admin/mod team who are completely detached from all but the 'surface/superficial' topics - we're more like a family-run business than a big, faceless corporation. I just wanted to reassure those people who are newer members here that, although the mod team may express their own and sometimes explicit opinions here, it doesn't mean that there will be any bias when it comes to making moderating decisions. |
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 16 2008, 02:16 PM Post #2239 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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At the end of the day I realize reasonable intelligent minds can differ. It doesn't make the other side ignorant, necessarily. Whoever wins will be my President. (Choke) |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 06:28 PM Post #2240 |
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MaccaMomma
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 06:30 PM Post #2241 |
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MaccaMomma
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Andy.... Like I said in a previous post, having met you, you are a gentle soul yet very well versed and wonderfully talented at expressing yourself with written word! (OMG...I just realized I incorrectly used the word "inept" so I've edited this!!! SORRY.... )
Edited by Bag O' Nails, Sep 16 2008, 07:38 PM.
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 06:53 PM Post #2242 |
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MaccaMomma
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If I may share, I ran across an excellent documentary on the Independent Film Channel by Kelly Nyks entitled: Split: A Divided America It was excellent and will be airing again on 9/22; check your local guides and TiVo it! Anyway, I'd like to quote some highlights; the last statement being the most profound one of all: Noam Chomsky, author of "Manufacturing Consent & Determining Democracy: "The last few elections have been striking, as they have almost entirely handed over to the public relations industry to run. The elections are being run by the same people who sell you toothpaste and lifestyle drugs and automobiles and so on. People have to vote on what the advertising industry calls "qualities" or "personality." He's a nice guy, gonna take care of us, good leader, shares my values, looks religious. And it's true; the red state/blue state division indicates how people differed on their purchase of the imagery sold by the people who advertise toothpaste." Peter Loge; Professor of Political Language & Rhetoric, GWU said: "Every four years we're given a choice between two cars; we don't buy the one that fits our criteria best. We buy the one, or we vote for the one, that resonates with us; that feels right to us." In the closing scene, the documentary filmaker comments: "The most important thing I learned in talking with people coast to coast was how ineffective it is to try and understand each other from a perspective that reduces everything to either red states or blue states; yet that so often that what we hear these days is that it's become conventional wisdom and by accepting such a simple way of being categorized, we allow ourselves to be divided along lines that tell us very little of who we are. And the reality is, this country can't be broken down so easily. We're far more complex and diverse. We're really a purple America; and instead of growing further apart, the facts tell us that the majority has actually grown closer politically over the past few decades; yet we don't hear that very often because it doesn't win campaigns. So where do we go from here? ....Is it within our power to find those voices that speak to our commonalities, not our differences? And if we do find them...will we listen?" |
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 16 2008, 07:40 PM Post #2243 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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I think she meant adept instead of inept but it is a funny malapropism.
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 07:56 PM Post #2244 |
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MaccaMomma
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I can only claim Blonde Moment #5,423!
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| Bill | Sep 17 2008, 12:41 AM Post #2245 |
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No argument there, whatsoever.
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| Bill | Sep 17 2008, 12:47 AM Post #2246 |
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And there are three words to add which explain it all: DIVIDE AND RULE. |
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| beatlechick | Sep 17 2008, 01:24 AM Post #2247 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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This just in: Federal Reserve taking over the crumbling AIG
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| beatlechick | Sep 17 2008, 01:32 AM Post #2248 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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No need to get a comment from me on this! Obama Waffles |
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| beatlechick | Sep 17 2008, 01:41 AM Post #2249 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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This is sad. Just sad! Ralph Nader talks to parrot |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 17 2008, 03:47 AM Post #2250 |
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MaccaMomma
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Political satire can be taken a step further than it should...and this is one of those instances. I mean, the satire on SNL about Palin was funny; this isn't!
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| Bill | Sep 17 2008, 04:01 AM Post #2251 |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb87t2Z0plk
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 17 2008, 04:16 AM Post #2252 |
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MaccaMomma
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That one was good, Bill!
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| beatlechick | Sep 17 2008, 05:16 AM Post #2253 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Thank you for this, Heidi. I could pretty much deal with most of it but the part where it says the servings is for 4 illegal aliens pretty much crosses the line with me. it was something that was totally unnecessary and uncalled for. Pretty much all of it was unnecessary and uncalled for. |
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| Dorfliedot | Sep 17 2008, 05:32 AM Post #2254 |
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Beatlelicious
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Too funny in a way.. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 19 2008, 05:05 AM Post #2255 |
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| beatlechick | Sep 19 2008, 05:17 AM Post #2256 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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What I didn't see listed there is that her husband, The First Dude, does business where he gets paid by the state. He also has access to both her Governor and private emails. In many cases, he is "cc:'d" in sent to his wife. Why does he need to be "cc:'d" if she is the Governor and he is just First Dude? |
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| Bill | Sep 19 2008, 05:24 AM Post #2257 |
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An honest question: With investment banks dropping like flies and others being propped up by nothing but corporate welfare, what would have happened to retirees if Bush had been allowed to privatise social security as he wanted to as and McCain still wants to? ITES! |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Sep 19 2008, 09:35 AM Post #2258 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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Excellent article - thanks for the link. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Sep 19 2008, 09:37 AM Post #2259 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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Going by recent form, it would have collapsed and the CEO and directors of said privatised social security firms would have been paid off to the tune of tens of millions of dollars while taxpayers were left to pick up the pieces and compensate (i.e. make sure they don't starve) those who rely upon it. |
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| FamousGroupie | Sep 19 2008, 09:54 AM Post #2260 |
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Obsessive Saddo Fangirl
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HOST: Hello everyone and welcome to... AUDIENCE: STUMP...THE...CANDIDATE! HOST: That's right! Just last night, Sarah Palin asked for it and now we're going to play... AUDIENCE: STUMP...THE...CANDIDATE! HOST: Alright. I think we're ready to meet our contestant.... Dramatic music fills the amphitheater. The lights go down and a chair rises up from the floor, revealing Sarah Palin in the seat, smiling, waving and playfully holding a shotgun. HOST: Well, well, well Mrs. Palin--you certainly come correct. SARAH: This old thing? In Alaska, we call this a purse! Entire audience roars. Many people lightly hit the person next to them saying things like "Can you believe her?!" and "She is FUNNY," and "RAWR! Right?" HOST: Well, I hope you took your vitamins this morning. SARAH: I sure did. You know what I didn't take? HOST: What's that? SARAH: Birth control! People are now choking really hard. From laughing/whooping. Palin is standing on her chair with her hand cupped up against her ear as if to say "MAKE SOME NOISE." HOST: Well, tell us a little about yourself. SARAH: Well, Charlie-- HOST: Not my name. SARAH: Charlie, I am--as you know--I. Don't. Blink. Long pause, staring HOST: Well-- Palin lunges forward and shows fang-like teeth to the host. HOST: Lovely chompers. Let's play... AUDIENCE: STUMP...THE...CANDIDATE! HOST: Ok, question one: The book Common Sense was written by-- SARAH: You mean, using your head? HOST: No, wait--you didn't let me finish the question-- SARAH: I know what common sense is. HOST: Yes, of course but there's a book-- SARAH: I don't need a book to tell me what common sense is--am I right, America? Crowd cheers wildly, Palin shoots bullets into the air. HOST: Ok. Well--just for your general info, there is a book entitled Common Sense by Thomas Paine and it's a book that spoke on the idea of independence from Britain. SARAH: Which, we currently are free from. ANNCR: Yes...? SARAH: Charlie--let me ask you something. HOST: Again, my name is Henry and we're really running out of time. SARAH: How do I fix my email? HOST: I...don't know. SARAH: I need to send a bunch of those E-Birthday-cards. HOST: Ok. Great. Onto the next question--in regards to the recent bill passed in the house on Offshore Drilling-- SARAH: I will drill any-fucking-where. HOST: Ok, but that is not the quest-- SARAH: Do you have oil in your head? HOST: No, I have brain? SARAH: You don't know that. Hey! Audience? Who wants to find out if this guy has oil in his head?! AUDIENCE: WE DO! WE DO! SARAH: I'm sorry, Charlie. HOST: Henry SARAH: America has spoken! HOST: No, they haven't! You haven't even answered one question. SARAH: Fine. Ask a question. Go on. Stump me. I dare you, right AMERICA? So much yelling HOST: Ok, you're a former Mayor-- SARAH: LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION! Palin then proceeds to take rifle between legs and starts riding it around the theater like a horse. Everyone is cheering and throwing money out of their wallets. Henry, the host, cries softly at his desk. He really thought this was going to be his big break. Guess not, Henry. SARAH: I AM THE MISTRESS OF DOOM! Continues riding shotgun until it inadvertently shoots someone. Pauses. Says "That's politics for you!" and then starts riding again. |
| I don't believe in Bondi. I don't believe in rugby league. I believe in Yoko, John Lennon, the Lost Weekend and me. | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Sep 19 2008, 10:19 AM Post #2261 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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That's some nice satire you've got going on there.
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| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| maccascruff | Sep 19 2008, 04:40 PM Post #2262 |
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Sing the Changes
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Here is another one. I'm a little confused. Let me see if I have this straight..... * If you grow up in Hawaii, raised by your grandparents, you're "exotic, different." * Grow up in Alaska eating mooseburgers, a quintessential American story. * If your name is Barack you're a radical, unpatriotic Muslim. * Name your kids Willow, Trig and Track, you're a maverick. * Graduate from Harvard Law School and you are unstable. * Attend 5 different small colleges before graduating, you're well grounded. * If you spend 3 years as a brilliant community organizer, become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, become chairman of the state Senate's Health and Human Services committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of 13 million people while sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran's Affairs committees, you don't have any real leadership experience. * If your total resume is: local weather girl, 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, 20 months as the governor of a state with only 650,000 people, then you're qualified to become the country's second highest ranking executive. * If you have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 beautiful daughters, all within Protestant churches, you're not a real Christian. * If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and left your disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you're a Christian. * If you teach responsible, age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of birth control, you are eroding the fiber of society. * If , while governor, you staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state's school system while your unwed teen daughter ends up pregnant, you're very responsible. * If your wife is a Harvard graduate lawyer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family, your family's values don't represent America's. * If you're husband is nicknamed "First Dude", with at least one DWI conviction and no college education, who didn't register to vote until age 25 and once was a member of a group that advocated the secession of Alaska from the USA, your family is extremely admirable. OK, much clearer now |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 19 2008, 06:47 PM Post #2263 |
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MaccaMomma
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I watched her interview with Sean Hannity on TV and thought she did well. Sean asked her pointed questions about banning the books in the library, and about her brother-in-law, etc. She explained them quite clearly. IMHO, she has as much international experience as Obama; difference being he's running for the main office. I am looking forward to the debates. |
![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| Deleted User | Sep 19 2008, 09:39 PM Post #2264 |
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Deleted User
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One week in the life of Obama versus 'I have been to Canada, Mexico, Germany, Kuwait since 2006 and can see Russia from my house'. "So far as I know, Sarah has not been involved in international affairs whatsoever," said Victor Fischer, professor emeritus at the Institute for Social and Economic Research at the University of Alaska Anchorage. "The notion that she is experienced because she is commander-in-chief of the Alaska National Guard is not going to get you very far," said John Pike, an analyst at GlobalSecurity.org, an nonpartisan think tank in Alexandria, Va., who has written extensively about Alaska's military installations. |
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| maccascruff | Sep 20 2008, 12:54 AM Post #2265 |
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Sing the Changes
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And then there was the debacle earlier this week when her spokesperson said that she had been 14 ft. inside of Iraq. The McCain campaign later said that was not true. Palin has no foreign policy experience. Obama has served on the Foreign Affairs and Veteran's Affairs committees. He also against the war in Iraq from the beginning. That is good enough for me. |
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| beatlechick | Sep 20 2008, 12:59 AM Post #2266 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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To be the Devil's Advocate here, one can say that the trip Obama took is his only foreign policy experience. One CAN say that........................but I don't. Having lived in Indonesia and have spent time in Kenya he has seen and experienced a lot more than Sarah Palin. He has seen the difference in class structure, has seen how the gov't is to their people, so he got to visit other countries........that's great! He didn't visit Alaska and seen just how much foreign experience is there. |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 20 2008, 01:02 AM Post #2267 |
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MaccaMomma
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Well if you want to rate the amount of international experience for the person actually running for President, then McCain wins. McCain picked her for her economic reform strengths. I'd say it's a good balance.
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| beatlechick | Sep 20 2008, 01:24 AM Post #2268 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Not even close!
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| Bill | Sep 20 2008, 01:43 AM Post #2269 |
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Ah, I see. So hiring lobbyists to secure $27,000,000 in earmarks for a town of under 7000 people and still leaving the town $20,000,000 in debt is the kind of economic reform America needs? I would call that maintaining the status quo. Sean Hannity is not a journalist, he's a commentator. I didn't say that, Bill O'Reilly did.
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| Deleted User | Sep 20 2008, 03:46 AM Post #2270 |
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Deleted User
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Don't forget when Palin claimed to have visited Ireland, but it was just a fueling stop on the way to Kuwait! She just got her passport in 2006. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 20 2008, 03:56 AM Post #2271 |
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Deleted User
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Is Ben Stein a smart guy? Is Ben Stein a solid conservative Republican strategist? Ben Stein on Palin's Economic Policy (2:09) "I don't think she's said a word in her whole life about the national economy." "She should have Henry Kissinger babysitting her". Will Palin Win Ben Stein's Vote? Stein: 'She Scares Me' (5:17) ABC News' Lindsey Ellerson and Nitya Venkataraman Report Political commentator and actor Ben Stein, in a starring role this week as one of the Republican National Convention's biggest celebrities, told ABC News he has his concerns about Sen. John McCain's, R-Ariz., vice presidential pick, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, but hopes it "works out for him." Stein, a former speechwriter in the Nixon and Ford administrations, expressed doubt over McCain's VP curveball. "I don't know if she scares Obama, but she scares me -- and I hope I turn out to be totally wrong -- but right now, she's scaring me. He has chosen a very oddball, strange choice and, God bless him, I hope it works out for him. "What if he wins the election and passes into eternity and she becomes president?" wondered Stein. "I think it's quite possible that he'll win the election. Whether or not we will be happy if he passes into eternity and she becomes president is a very big question." Despite Stein's strong reaction to Palin, he did give her some credit, saying she has "some credentials," just not enough "familiarity with national policy." |
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| Bill | Sep 20 2008, 04:04 AM Post #2272 |
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What about Peggy Noonan? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrG8w4bb3kg What about Chuck Hagel? http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2835&u_sid=10435997 Now there's a maverick. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 20 2008, 04:19 AM Post #2273 |
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Deleted User
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Matt Damon Rips Sarah Palin (1:43) "It's like a really bad Disney movie. It's totally absurd. It's a really terrifying possibility." (Hey, he was a frickin genius in 'Good Will Hunting') |
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| Bill | Sep 20 2008, 04:21 AM Post #2274 |
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He's about as relevant as Chuck Norris. And you can take that any way you like.
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| Adilah | Sep 20 2008, 06:16 AM Post #2275 |
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This election is a perfect example of style over substance. |
| "We call 10 American deaths a catastrophe. One hundred European deaths are a tragedy. One thousand Asian deaths are a shame. And 10,000 African deaths we call a Monday." - Lissa (1981-2007) ÇáÓáÇã Úáíßã æÑÍãÉ Çááå æÈÑßÇÊå | |
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| maccascruff | Sep 20 2008, 04:24 PM Post #2276 |
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Sing the Changes
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On the hearings on Troopergate. Palin said originally to bring it on. Now she won't let the First Dude or her staff testify. I keep wondering why she was using a yahoo email account for official business. The articles I read said that she seemed to think they were exempt from the open records act, which makes no sense to me. What was she hiding? |
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| Bill | Sep 21 2008, 01:48 AM Post #2277 |
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There are several problems here. Firstly, since when do you get to ignore subpoenas? Who else gets to ignore subpoenas without getting arrested? Is this really change? Is this going to clean up Washington when they're behaving like the Bush administration already? Secondly, the announcement that Todd Palin would not comply with the subpoena was no made by Todd Palin. It was not even made by the Governor's office. It was made by the McCain campaign. What does this tell us? |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
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| maccascruff | Sep 21 2008, 02:16 AM Post #2278 |
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Sing the Changes
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It makes one wonder if the allegations are not true in my mind. If there is nothing to hide, comply with the subpoenas. Palin would be cleared and end of discussion. |
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| Bill | Sep 21 2008, 02:58 AM Post #2279 |
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I see it differently. I have no doubt the guy deserved to be fired. The problem was that she fired the person who wouldn't fire the one who was causing the problem without due process. So the reason this is a scandal (as I see it) is that she thought she could do as she pleased without due process and without any regard for conflicts of interest and fired anyone who told her any differently. Again, who does this remind us of? And in what way does it represent a change to how the current administration operates? |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
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| maccascruff | Sep 21 2008, 06:04 PM Post #2280 |
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Sing the Changes
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The brother-in-law or the guy who wouldn't fire him, Bill? I think the brother-in-law deserved to be fired, but that Palin did think she could do as she pleased without answering to anybody and now it is a scandal that didn't need to happen. I've seen the brother-in-law interviewed and he is a total jerk and did deserve to be fired. It was just done all wrong. It sounds like they had enough on him to fire him, so why didn't they use due process and do it. Sounds like the current administration, eh? |
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| Bill | Sep 22 2008, 03:14 AM Post #2281 |
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That's exactly what I meant. Now how about some straight talk on tax? It doesn't matter who wins the election, your taxes are going up. I've done a bit more learning. The US government has $5 trillion in debt, runs a budget deficit of $400 billion and and just agreed to bail out financial institutions which have another $5 trillion in debt. Can anyone explain to an economic simpleton like me, how anyone is going to service that debt while also lowering taxes? It's not going to happen. Keep in mind that neither candidate knows the true state of the books and won't until he sits in the oval office. Experience teaches us that no matter how bad things look from the outside, it's worse when you get a look at the inside. And that will be the excuse for not lowering taxes as promised; If they'd known then what they know now.... As far as I can see, the next president is going to be left with the choice of either raising taxes, or letting the country go bankrupt. Which would you prefer? Sorry folks, but your taxes are going up. You might as well get used to the idea now. Edited by Bill, Sep 22 2008, 03:18 AM.
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 22 2008, 03:44 AM Post #2282 |
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MaccaMomma
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It's a sad reality. I don't know exactly how/what my taxes will go up if McCain gets in....but I heard that if Obama gets in and me being a small business owner, that my tax bracket will go up to 50% (so I hear)!
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![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| Deleted User | Sep 22 2008, 04:09 AM Post #2283 |
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Deleted User
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You are probably referring to this article from the Wall Street Journal. Of course, in order to be in the top 1% of incomes you will have to be one of the 1,357,192 people or small businesses that earn at least $388,806 per year. Here is a chart showing the differences in taxation under each proposed plan. Taxation Federal tax change in 2009 (if their tax proposals were fully in place.) Blue number is largest tax cut. McCain / Obama Income / Average tax bill / Average tax bill Over $2.9M / -$269,364 / +$701,885 $603K and up / -$45,361 / +$115,974 $227K-$603K /-$7,871 / +$12 $161K-$227K / -$4,380 / -$2,789 $112K-$161K / -$2,614 / -$2,204 $66K-$112K / -$1,009 / -$1,290 $38K-$66K / -$319 / -$1,042 $19K-$38K / -$113 / -$892 Under $19K / -$19 / -$567 CNN, Tax Policy Center, BarackObama.com, JohnMcCain.com September 13, 2008 If You Like Michigan's Economy, You'll Love Obama's By PHIL GRAMM and MIKE SOLON September 13, 2008; Page A13 Despite the federal government's growing economic dominance, individual states still exercise substantial freedom in pursuing their own economic fortune -- or misfortune. As a result, the states provide a laboratory for testing various policies. In this election year, the experience of the states gives us some ability to look at the economic policies of the two presidential candidates in action. If a program is not playing in Peoria, it probably won't work elsewhere. Americans have voted with their feet by moving to states with greater opportunities, but federal adoption of failed state programs would take away our ability to walk away from bad government. Growth in jobs, income and population are proof that a state is prospering. But figuring out why one state does well while another struggles requires in-depth analysis. In an effort to explain differences in performance, think tanks have generated state-based economic freedom indices modeled on the World Economic Freedom Index published by The Wall Street Journal and the Heritage Foundation. A TAX TO GRIND Personal-income growth suffers when states adopt a tax-and-spend approach to fiscal policy. The Competitiveness Index created by the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) identifies "16 policy variables that have a proven impact on the migration of capital -- both investment capital and human capital -- into and out of states." Its analysis shows that "generally speaking, states that spend less, especially on income transfer programs, and states that tax less, particularly on productive activities such as working or investing, experience higher growth rates than states that tax and spend more." Ranking states by domestic migration, per-capita income growth and employment growth, ALEC found that from 1996 through 2006, Texas, Florida and Arizona were the three most successful states. Illinois, Ohio and Michigan were the three least successful. The rewards for success were huge. Texas gained 1.7 million net new jobs, Florida gained 1.4 million and Arizona gained 600,000. While the U.S. average job growth percentage was 9.9%, Texas, Florida and Arizona had job growth of 18.5%, 21.4% and 28.9%, respectively. Remarkably, a third of all the jobs in the U.S. in the last 10 years were created in these three states. While the population of the three highest-performing states grew twice as fast as the national average, per-capita real income still grew by $6,563 or 21.4% in Texas, Florida and Arizona. That's a $26,252 increase for a typical family of four. By comparison, Illinois gained only 122,000 jobs, Ohio lost 62,900 and Michigan lost 318,000. Population growth in Michigan, Ohio and Illinois was only 4.2%, a third the national average, and real income per capita rose by only $3,466, just 58% of the national average. Workers in the three least successful states had to contend with a quarter-million fewer jobs rather than taking their pick of the 3.7 million new jobs that were available in the three fastest-growing states. In Michigan, the average family of four had to make ends meet without an extra $8,672 had their state matched the real income growth of the three most successful states. Families in Michigan, Ohio and Illinois struggled not because they didn't work hard enough, long enough or smart enough. They struggled because too many of their elected leaders represented special interests rather than their interests. What explains this relative performance over the last 10 years? The simple answer is that governance, taxes and regulatory policy matter. The playing field among the states was not flat. Business conditions were better in the successful states than in the lagging ones. Capital and labor gravitated to where the burdens were smaller and the opportunities greater. It costs state taxpayers far less to succeed than to fail. In the three most successful states, state spending averaged $5,519 per capita. In the three least successful states, state spending averaged $6,484 per capita. Per capita taxes were $7,063 versus $8,342. There also appears to be a clear difference between union interests and the worker interests. Texas, Florida and Arizona are right-to-work states, while Michigan, Ohio and Illinois are not. Michigan, Ohio and Illinois impose significantly higher minimum wages than Texas, Florida and Arizona. Yet with all the proclaimed benefits of unionism and higher minimum wages, Texas, Florida and Arizona workers saw their real income grow more than twice as fast as workers in Michigan, Ohio and Illinois. Incredibly, the business climate in Michigan is now so unfavorable that it has overwhelmed the considerable comparative advantage in auto production that Michigan spent a century building up. No one should let Michigan politicians blame their problems solely on the decline of the U.S. auto industry. Yes, Michigan lost 83,000 auto manufacturing jobs during the past decade and a half, but more than 91,000 new auto manufacturing jobs sprung up in Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia and Texas. So what do the state laboratories tell us about the potential success of the economic programs presented by Barack Obama and John McCain? Mr. McCain will lower taxes. Mr. Obama will raise them, especially on small businesses. To understand why, you need to know something about the "infamous" top 1% of income tax filers: In order to avoid high corporate tax rates and the double taxation of dividends, small business owners have increasingly filed as individuals rather than corporations. When Democrats talk about soaking the rich, it isn't the Rockefellers they're talking about; it's the companies where most Americans work. Three out of four individual income tax filers in the top 1% are, in fact, small businesses. In the name of taxing the rich, Mr. Obama would raise the marginal tax rates to over 50% on millions of small businesses that provide 75% of all new jobs in America. Investors and corporations will also pay higher taxes under the Obama program, but, as the Michigan-Ohio-Illinois experience painfully demonstrates, workers ultimately pay for higher taxes in lower wages and fewer jobs. Mr. Obama would spend all the savings from walking out of Iraq to expand the government. Mr. McCain would reserve all the savings from our success in Iraq to shrink the deficit, as part of a credible and internally consistent program to balance the budget by the end of his first term. Mr. Obama's program offers no hope, or even a promise, of ever achieving a balanced budget. Mr. Obama would stimulate the economy by increasing federal spending. Mr. McCain would stimulate the economy by cutting the corporate tax rate. Mr. Obama would expand unionism by denying workers the right to a secret ballot on the decision to form a union, and would dramatically increase the minimum wage. Mr. Obama would also expand the role of government in the economy, and stop reforms in areas like tort abuse. The states have already tested the McCain and Obama programs, and the results are clear. We now face a national choice to determine if everything that has failed the families of Michigan, Ohio and Illinois will be imposed on a grander scale across the nation. In an appropriate twist of fate, Michigan and Ohio, the two states that have suffered the most from the policies that Mr. Obama proposes, have it within their power not only to reverse their own misfortunes but to spare the nation from a similar fate. Mr. Gramm is a former Republican senator from Texas. Mr. Solon founded the consulting firm Capitol Legistics. |
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| Bill | Sep 22 2008, 05:04 AM Post #2284 |
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I think that article is being dishonest. For a start it talks about Obama "walking out" of Iraq and McCain's "success in Iraq." What success??? Furthermore, they have no justification for claiming Obama would expand government. And if expanding government is such a bad thing, then have they been walking around with their eyes closed for the last 8 years? I can only assume so. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 22 2008, 05:31 AM Post #2285 |
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Deleted User
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But we all know that the Wall Street Journal, the Heritage Foundation and Phil Gramm are bastions of liberality. Why would they mislead us in an editorial? The editorial page of the Wall Street Journal summarizes its philosophy as being in favor of "free markets and free people". It is typically viewed as adhering to American conservatism and economic liberalism. The page takes a free-market view of economic issues and an often conservative view of American foreign policy. Since the 1990s, the editorial page of the Journal has been criticised repeatedly for inaccuracy and dishonesty, including a summary in 1995 by Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, and in 1996 by the Columbia Journalism Review. The Heritage Foundation is an American conservative think tank. Founded in 1973, it is based in Washington, D.C., in the United States. Heritage's stated mission is to "formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense." Internationally, and in partnership with the Wall Street Journal, Heritage publishes the annual Index of Economic Freedom, which measures a country's freedom in terms of property rights and freedom from government regulation. The factors used to calculate the Index score are corruption in government, barriers to international trade, income tax and corporate tax rates, government expenditures, rule of law and the ability to enforce contracts, regulatory burdens, banking restrictions, labor regulations, and black market activities. Deficiencies lower the score on Heritage's Index. Since the end of the Cold War, Heritage has continued to be an active voice in foreign affairs and has been generally supportive of President George W. Bush's foreign policies. Phil Gramm was John McCain’s presidential campaign co-chair and his most senior economic adviser from summer 2007 to July 18, 2008. His fundamental economic theory is described by his critics as "Reverse Robin Hood and Little John Economics". This theory assumes that to improve the quality of people's lives you must impose the burden of tax on the middle class and poor, while providing tax relief to the rich or wealthy. It is believed that the lives of the middle class and poor will then improve when a portion of their original taxes trickles down to them. While advising the McCain campaign, Gramm was being paid by UBS to lobby Congress about the U.S. mortgage crisis. During this time, "the mortgage industry pressed Congress to roll back strong state rules that sought to stem the rise of predatory tactics used by lenders and brokers to place homeowners in high-cost mortgages." According to Politico.com, Gramm had input on McCain's March 26, 2008 policy speech on the mortgage crisis. In a July 9, 2008 interview explaining McCain's plans in reforming the U.S. economy, Gramm downplayed the idea that the nation was in a recession, stating, "You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession," and "We have sort of become a nation of whiners, you just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline." Gramm's comments immediately became a campaign issue. McCain's opponent, Senator Barack Obama, said, "America already has one Dr. Phil. We don't need another one when it comes to the economy. ... This economic downturn is not in your head." McCain strongly denounced Gramm's comments. Gramm later attempted to clarify his comment, explaining that he had used the word "whiners" to describe the nation's politicians rather than the public, stating "the whiners are the leaders." In the same interview, Gramm stated, "I'm not going to retract any of it. Every word I said was true." On July 18, 2008 Gramm stepped down from his position with the McCain campaign. However, he often accompanies McCain during the campaign, and continues to be an unofficial adviser on economic and financial matters. |
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 22 2008, 10:04 AM Post #2286 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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We're doomed. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 22 2008, 01:02 PM Post #2287 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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September 11, 2003 New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae By STEPHEN LABATON The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago. Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry. The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios. The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt -- is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates. ... Among the groups denouncing the proposal today were the National Association of Home Builders and Congressional Democrats who fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing. ''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.'' Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed. ''I don't see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,'' Mr. Watt said |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| Bill | Sep 22 2008, 01:47 PM Post #2288 |
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And here was me thinking that expanding government was a BAD thing! That article was written at a time when Republicans controlled the White House, the congress and the senate, and would continue to for the next three years, so what went wrong? |
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 22 2008, 02:13 PM Post #2289 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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Barney Frank opposed it and it probably didn't gain any traction on either side because there was no crisis. I think regulating the central bank and monetary policy are part of the infrastructure a government should deal with. Too late now. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| maccascruff | Sep 22 2008, 04:20 PM Post #2290 |
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Sing the Changes
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Not unless you are a very high profit making C Corporation. Obama's plan on taxes does not raise taxes on any other form of business at this point. Otherwise, if you earn over $250 K per year, Obama will raise your business. If you do, I will be quite happy to trade places with you. In other words, I won't be feeling bad for anybody who makes over $250 K whose taxes go up. Edited by maccascruff, Sep 22 2008, 04:23 PM.
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| maccascruff | Sep 22 2008, 04:26 PM Post #2291 |
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Sing the Changes
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The Obama plan redistributes the tax cuts so that those in the lower income brackets will get a bigger tax cut. That is as it should be. McCain's plan favors the rich big time. That is not as it should be. |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 22 2008, 05:15 PM Post #2292 |
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MaccaMomma
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If you have a successful business, it's really not that hard for a business to gross $250k per year. What you take home is a different story! I'm not wealthy, but everything I have was earned with blood, sweat and tears. I grew up on welfare in a single family home, having nothing most of my young life. Nothing was given to me on a silver platter. So I say, why "punish" the people who try to make a good living? Isn't this wealth distribution aka socialsim? 3. And if small businesses taxes are raised, just who do you think will eventually pay? Fred Thompson, speaking at the RNC, said it quite brilliantly: "Now, our opponents tell us not to worry about their tax increases. They tell you they're not going to tax your family. No, they're just going to tax "businesses." So, unless you buy something from a business, like groceries or clothes or gasoline -- or unless you get a paycheck from a business, a big business or a small business, don't worry, it's not going to affect you! They say they're not going to take any water out of your side of the bucket, just the other side of the bucket! That's their idea of tax reform." |
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| Bill | Sep 22 2008, 05:33 PM Post #2293 |
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I'd say taking on a trillion dollars of bad loans is socialism and wealth redistribution. So okay, if it's wrong to tax people who make more than average, then who do you tax? We're agreed that taxes are going to have to go up, so what is the most equitable way to do that? What other proposals are out there? Poll tax? Poverty tax? Cable levy? Making vagrancy a felony? What other options are there? Can I remind people that America is currently at war? And it's a war that the majority of people have not been asked to contribute to in any way. That accounts for another trillion dollars of debt. So to all those who are scared of the boogyman of tax increases, what happened to putting country first? Is it wrong in a time of war and crisis to ask the people to give a little more? Or is putting country first something that other people have to do so that you* don't have to? God bless our troops, but please God, don't make me pay for them. *that's a generic "you" because I can't say "we." |
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 22 2008, 05:44 PM Post #2294 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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I'd rather let it all go and let the chips fall where they may, no bail out, begin fiscal responsibility now. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 22 2008, 05:59 PM Post #2295 |
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MaccaMomma
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Good points. I'm all in favor doing my share to help out those in need (and I do that in many non-taxable ways) but also want fairness for everyone. It's a tough situation, and I just don't know the answer. How about drastically cutting out all the ridiculous spending and ludicrous funding for non-essential things? And then maybe a fixed percentage tax rate across the board for everyone? I think Huckabee was proposing something like this. Edited by Bag O' Nails, Sep 22 2008, 06:03 PM.
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 22 2008, 06:01 PM Post #2296 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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Fair tax. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 22 2008, 06:01 PM Post #2297 |
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MaccaMomma
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Edited by Bag O' Nails, Sep 22 2008, 06:03 PM.
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![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| Bill | Sep 22 2008, 06:14 PM Post #2298 |
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No argument on the spending cuts. Personally, I can't support a flat tax. It's fair for those who earn over and above a certain amount to pay a little extra, remembering that they only pay more on the income they earn over the lower bracket. I'd also be in favour of crediting that back if they contributed in other ways, such as having employees. |
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| Monkey Chow | Sep 22 2008, 06:18 PM Post #2299 |
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beep beep m beep beep yeah
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The Fair Tax proposal is 27% sales tax on all goods, no income tax whatsoever. Does away with corporations, many of which are small businesses, having to spend productive time collecting the IRS's money for them and collects taxes from everyone with no loopholes. |
| Everybody's got something to hide 'cept for me and my monkey. | |
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| Deleted User | Sep 22 2008, 07:55 PM Post #2300 |
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Deleted User
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Your small business that earns more than $340k per year, placing you in the dreaded top 1% of income earners, will only face the higher taxation if you are filing as an individual instead of as a corporation under Obama's plan. |
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As long as there is dual politeness, I can handle spirited chat!



I fully realize that you already try to do that!
I have never accused to your face nor behind you back that you are a liar.

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2:01 PM Jul 11