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| 2008 U.S. Presidential Election | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 22 2007, 05:49 AM (37,425 Views) | |
| beatlechick | Sep 13 2008, 12:06 AM Post #2101 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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John, I wasn't alive for most of those but a good list anyway. |
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| fab4fan | Sep 13 2008, 12:06 AM Post #2102 |
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I regularly converse with Bill & Andy. I enjoy their feedback. What makes me scratch my head sometimes on this board though is when a non-liberal expresses a viewpoint on other parts of the world, we get slapped down to "we should mind our own business." Some people would think what is good for the goose is good for the gander. (I'm staying away from pig and pitbull analogies. ) Wouldn't call that stubborn pride, more like what's fair is fair.
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| Bill | Sep 13 2008, 01:17 AM Post #2103 |
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Hi Heidi, I think you might be trivialising a few things here. Yes, money is an issue but so is human life. Our volunteer military signed up to defend our own respective countries, not the personal vendettas of the US president's. 80% approval? So what? Firstly, that's an artificial bound and you know it. Secondly - and more importantly - that poll was only taken in America. You asked about what other countries thought and why. It's a mistake to equate popularity with quality. Bush's approval rating at that time only shows that you can fool all of the people some of the time. The world does not see America as the last great hope. The free world does not see America as its leader. Sorry, but deal with it! ![]() You're correct that it's a question of where to from here. McCain thinks the war and the economy are going just swell. If you agree with that, then vote for him. If you don't, then vote for someone who doesn't think Bush was right 90% of the time. |
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| Bill | Sep 13 2008, 01:26 AM Post #2104 |
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So you're saying she IS on the ticket only because she's female, to catch voters who will vote for any female, not one who represents their values?
Andy didn't say that and you know it. As I have said all along, it's got nothing to do with the political persuasion of the source, and all to do with the credibility and factual accuracy of the source. Rush has neither and that's what makes him a f*ckwit. Don't give me the "poor victimised conservative" argument. That's weak.
People who have called Michael Moore a f*ckwit get no argument from me. Jon Stewart is a satirist! And even so, he's a far more astute political commentator that many who have that as their job description. Stewart will be the first to point out what a sorry state of affairs that is.
You think Gadaffi represents what many think? Why? Who else has expressed such views? (and if you say Hugo Chavez, that will only prove me point) You wonder who's to say what people in other countries think? You just asked me! And I told you. So has Andy. Don't aslk the question if you don't want to know the answer. |
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| Bill | Sep 13 2008, 01:29 AM Post #2105 |
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How is a board moderator now entitled to express his views as passionately as anyone else? In what way is he trying to cram views down people's throats? And why do Republicans always play the victim whenever their world view is challenged. That's really lame. More on why other countries have a right to comment in a minute. But consider this: Why does America have a right to criticise Russia for their behaviour in Georgia? It's not your country, is it? |
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| Bill | Sep 13 2008, 01:33 AM Post #2106 |
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Could you give me an example, John? Personally, I welcome any and all discussion of my country's politics, policies and behaviour - and any other country's. My comment about Georgia above was to point out what you said about what's good for the goose.
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| Bill | Sep 13 2008, 01:49 AM Post #2107 |
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For those who ask why I comment: I was asked on another forum what my interest is in the US election, since I'm not an America. It disappoints me that the answer isn't obvious, but for those who don't get it, this is what I said: Who do you think of when you hear the expression, "leader of the free world"? If you said the President of the United States (and admit it, you did! ), then that's why I comment.Last time I looked, I live in the free world, but I didn't vote for him. What's more, I didn't get to vote against him, but as long as America presumes to influence the rest of the world, then I get to comment. My mate Angry Aussie put it better than I can: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW1NUQZ0qew The fact is that I DO have to put up with the bullsh*t the comes from American politics. We all do. That's how American policy effects the world. America sneezes and we catch cold. Don't go thinking the sub-prime debacle stops at the US border. There are a whole bunch of businesses here that are in deep sh*t thanks to that crap too. So the suggestion that my life and my country is not effected by US politics could not be more wrong. The fact of the matter is that it's Americans who don't understand what it's like when another country's policies f*ck things up for you at home. You only have to worry about your own government. Most of us outside the bubble realise that there's only so much our own politicians can do if America goes nuts. So why do I support Obama and what difference does it make to me? Obama plans to end to war in Iraq. Since my country has troops in Iraq, I have an interest in that. Obama plans to refocus the war in Afghanistan to actually defeat al Qaeda rather than just keep them moving. Since my country has troops in Afghanistan, and since we have lost more of them in the last six months than we have in the last six years, I have an interest in that. Since my countrymen have been the targets of terrorism for our involvement with America, I have an interest in that. Obama plans to stop allowing corporations to write their own legislation. As a resident of a country where people have been burned by US monetary policy (who would have thought anything could go wrong by lending a sh*tload of money to people who can't pay it back :?: ) I have an interest in that. Obama plans to rebuild America's shattered reputation in the world. As a citizen of said world, I have an interest in that. Obama plans to close the gulag in Guantanamo Bay. Since two Australians were held there for years without charge, one of whom was illegally kidnapped to be taken there, I have an interest. And as a citizen of a world that is generally a much more uptight place than it was eight years ago, thanks in no small part to the policies of the outgoing US administration, I have an interest. I don't expect Obama to do anything for me personally but it's so awfully refreshing to hear someone who isn't afraid to say what he means and not just what he hopes the crowd wants to hear. Twelve months ago I would have been content enough with McCain but I have lost all respect for him as he does nothing but pander. As a citizen of a country and a world that will inevitably be effected by a decision I don't get to participate in, I do very much have an interest. The tide is turning. Any questions? Edited by Bill, Sep 13 2008, 02:29 AM.
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| beatlechick | Sep 13 2008, 01:56 AM Post #2108 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Bill you put it better than I did. |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Sep 13 2008, 02:05 AM Post #2109 |
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LOLcat Freak
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I personally value people's opinion about the election who aren't from America. What happens in America can effect the world. To tell someone to keep their opinions to themselves isn't right, IMHO. |
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| Deleted User | Sep 13 2008, 02:06 AM Post #2110 |
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Bill you wish you were American, admit. You are one of those few non Americans who call USA, America. Nobody else in the world call USA America except for Americans. In South America, Americans are not called Americans. They are called estadounidenses. Maybe because your girlfriend is American you are interested about American Politics more than ever. There are so many problems going on in so many countries people have their own election to care about. World wide media is showing Obama as the good man and that's why people from "the rest of the world" is supporting him. That's all. Nobody cares about US politics. USA politics doesn't affect the world like it used to affect 10 years ago. Things are changing a lot. |
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| Bill | Sep 13 2008, 02:17 AM Post #2111 |
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Michelle, we've been through this before and you are wrong to attempt to read my mind. I accept that most people from South America refer to it as the USA but most of us in the English speaking world just say America. Sorry if that offends you, but that's the way it is. And most of our local media is simply reporting the facts. It's unfortunate that people always assume some kind of bias when the reality is that the facts support one side more than the other. |
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| maccascruff | Sep 13 2008, 02:24 AM Post #2112 |
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Sing the Changes
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Andy did not post in moderator blue. Andy is also a member here and is entitled to his opinions, as we all are. Bill, I couldn't state my case on Obama any better than you did. Bill has been interested in US politics as long as I have been posting with him on pm.com. It's nothing new. After being forced to listen to Rush Limbaugh spewing hate and lies daily at work, I can tell you he is one overpaid f*ckwit. I will never understand why anyone listens to him. My crazy boss keeps telling me that McCain is going to win by a landslide. I do think Obama will win, but I do not think it will be a landslide. I think those who are so enamored with Palin will see the light. I wish I had Monday off so I could go see Obama again. Instead, I will put my money where my mouth is and attend a fundraiser on September 21. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 13 2008, 02:37 AM Post #2113 |
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Not most people from South America but most people where the official language is not English, including Europe. It doesn't offend me at all. Just a comment. And I know Bill is interested in American politics since pm.com because I registered there a long time ago and I remember his posts. He is just getting more "passionate" about it. |
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| maccascruff | Sep 13 2008, 02:41 AM Post #2114 |
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Sing the Changes
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You are giving Dubya too much credit. He hasn't been right even 5 per cent of the time. |
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| Rose | Sep 13 2008, 04:46 AM Post #2115 |
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Well, here's another clue for you all, the Walrus was Paul...
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Personally, I find Bill and Andys perspective on American politics fascinating. And although I don't usually get vocal in this thread (it is rather intimidating sometimes) I find myself learning a thing or two from them. I like that...even 'moderators' are allowed opinions... And Sarah Palin still scares the living hell out of me...
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| fab4fan | Sep 13 2008, 05:16 AM Post #2116 |
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Considering this previous quote of yours, your question to my post is very respectful. I expected an emoticon playing a violin, humming the world's saddest song. Suffice it to say bringing up the example that somewhat burns me won't resolve anything. Sorry I brought it up.Moving on to other things: if I were to say that I believe 50% of what I insist to be fact and truth, and not opinion, is in fact and truth incorrect, what would you say? And of all the things on say, just the last dozen pages or so that you have insisted are fact and truth, what percentage might you say you might possibly be wrong about?
Edited by fab4fan, Sep 13 2008, 05:34 AM.
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 13 2008, 05:16 AM Post #2117 |
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MaccaMomma
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Having met Andy and Fiona personally, I can say that Andy has a kind spirit and Fiona is a sweet gal. From reading a lot of his posts, he is very well versed and I appreciate his ability to articulate wonderfully (although strongly at times). Bill, on the other hand, I've never had the pleasure of meeting personally. I know he is very up on things of the world and I would imagine, reads a lot! ![]() It is, however, difficult to post on this particular thread; it can be intimidating when you're on the "other" side of the popular consensus! ![]() ![]() All that to say is that I know the people here are a passionate group, and I really hope that we can continue to express ourselves without being made to feel ignorant or that our opinions are not important....!
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| Bill | Sep 13 2008, 07:26 AM Post #2118 |
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Heidi, I'd just like to say that I often get passionate about things and say some things that could be read as hurtful. I promise you, that's not the intention. We lose things in plain text here. I believe friends owe it to each other to tell the truth and if I think someone is talking sh*t, even if they're my best friend (in fact, more likely if they're my best friend), I won't hesitate to say, "You're talking sh*t." It doesn't mean I love them any less. That's a given so there's no need to sugar-coat anything. I hope you know the same applies to you. John, I don't quite see how that comment of mine can be read as telling people to mind their own business. I want to be challenged. I want people to state their case. If I see a flaw in the argument, I'll point that out - it's not a personal thing. If I were to act all victimised because my argument hasn't stood up to scrutiny then it's time to put me out to pasture. To answer your question, I'm always open to the idea that my information is wrong. You called me out on that the other day and I do owe you an explanation for that. I could think of only one lie that had been told about Sarah Palin and you had set me straight on the others. I thank you for that. And I kicked myself when I read them because I was aware of all those smears. My excuse is (and this is going to sound really lame) I'd forgotten. The thing about the new baby really being her daughter's was such obvious bullsh*t that I didn't pay it any more attention and put it out of my mind. I don't believe she's had an affair but the truth is, I couldn't care less if she did. Marital fidelity has nothing to do with one's ability to do their job. That applies to Edwards, it applies to Clinton, it applies to Kennedy, it applies to Eisenhower and it applies to Palin. I really couldn't care less either way. So I had just put the two things out of my mind. It's no excuse for forgetting, but that's why I had. I understand that it's really arrogant of me to go saying that everything I think is the truth. I try not to get bogged down on petty debating points and 'Aha!' moments. What I'd really like to know from those who disagree with me is what I'm wrong about. Although it doesn't always look it, I do genuinely want to know. And I want to understand the logic and reasoning behind the formulation of an opinion that runs counter to mine. Yeah, I know that just looks like I'm trying to be far more noble than I really am. I've never tried to change anyone's mind. Most of my points here basically come down to "How can you think [that] when [this]?" I could give some examples from this thread but it might be better to keep things generic. So most of what I'm saying here is, "How can you say Collingwood is a great football team when they've lost 2/3 of their games this season?" I'm sorry, it was such a simple question too. I'm way too wordy.
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| Bill | Sep 13 2008, 08:32 AM Post #2119 |
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| Adilah | Sep 13 2008, 09:28 AM Post #2120 |
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Every four years one quarter of Americans self-righteously declare Democrats to be absolutely right, one quarter self-righteously declare Republicans to be absolutely right and the other half of Americans stay at home and watch game shows on TV. |
| "We call 10 American deaths a catastrophe. One hundred European deaths are a tragedy. One thousand Asian deaths are a shame. And 10,000 African deaths we call a Monday." - Lissa (1981-2007) ÇáÓáÇã Úáíßã æÑÍãÉ Çááå æÈÑßÇÊå | |
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| Adilah | Sep 13 2008, 09:31 AM Post #2121 |
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Presidents Jackson and McKinley should be added to that list. I may be mistaken, but I think Warren Harding was a senator, not a governor. |
| "We call 10 American deaths a catastrophe. One hundred European deaths are a tragedy. One thousand Asian deaths are a shame. And 10,000 African deaths we call a Monday." - Lissa (1981-2007) ÇáÓáÇã Úáíßã æÑÍãÉ Çááå æÈÑßÇÊå | |
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| Adilah | Sep 13 2008, 09:34 AM Post #2122 |
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The day he speaks for "the Arab world" is the day I eat pork chops. |
| "We call 10 American deaths a catastrophe. One hundred European deaths are a tragedy. One thousand Asian deaths are a shame. And 10,000 African deaths we call a Monday." - Lissa (1981-2007) ÇáÓáÇã Úáíßã æÑÍãÉ Çááå æÈÑßÇÊå | |
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| Jacaranda | Sep 14 2008, 12:38 AM Post #2123 |
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Blizzard of Lies By PAUL KRUGMAN Published: September 11, 2008 New York Times Did you hear about how Barack Obama wants to have sex education in kindergarten, and called Sarah Palin a pig? Did you hear about how Ms. Palin told Congress, “Thanks, but no thanks” when it wanted to buy Alaska a Bridge to Nowhere? These stories have two things in common: they’re all claims recently made by the McCain campaign — and they’re all out-and-out lies. Dishonesty is nothing new in politics. I spent much of 2000 — my first year at The Times — trying to alert readers to the blatant dishonesty of the Bush campaign’s claims about taxes, spending and Social Security. But I can’t think of any precedent, at least in America, for the blizzard of lies since the Republican convention. The Bush campaign’s lies in 2000 were artful — you needed some grasp of arithmetic to realize that you were being conned. This year, however, the McCain campaign keeps making assertions that anyone with an Internet connection can disprove in a minute, and repeating these assertions over and over again. Take the case of the Bridge to Nowhere, which supposedly gives Ms. Palin credentials as a reformer. Well, when campaigning for governor, Ms. Palin didn’t say “no thanks” — she was all for the bridge, even though it had already become a national scandal, insisting that she would “not allow the spinmeisters to turn this project or any other into something that’s so negative.” Oh, and when she finally did decide to cancel the project, she didn’t righteously reject a handout from Washington: she accepted the handout, but spent it on something else. You see, long before she decided to cancel the bridge, Congress had told Alaska that it could keep the federal money originally earmarked for that project and use it elsewhere. So the whole story of Ms. Palin’s alleged heroic stand against wasteful spending is fiction. Or take the story of Mr. Obama’s alleged advocacy of kindergarten sex-ed. In reality, he supported legislation calling for “age and developmentally appropriate education”; in the case of young children, that would have meant guidance to help them avoid sexual predators. And then there’s the claim that Mr. Obama’s use of the ordinary metaphor “putting lipstick on a pig” was a sexist smear, and on and on. Why do the McCain people think they can get away with this stuff? Well, they’re probably counting on the common practice in the news media of being “balanced” at all costs. You know how it goes: If a politician says that black is white, the news report doesn’t say that he’s wrong, it reports that “some Democrats say” that he’s wrong. Or a grotesque lie from one side is paired with a trivial misstatement from the other, conveying the impression that both sides are equally dirty. They’re probably also counting on the prevalence of horse-race reporting, so that instead of the story being “McCain campaign lies,” it becomes “Obama on defensive in face of attacks.” Still, how upset should we be about the McCain campaign’s lies? I mean, politics ain’t beanbag, and all that. One answer is that the muck being hurled by the McCain campaign is preventing a debate on real issues — on whether the country really wants, for example, to continue the economic policies of the last eight years. But there’s another answer, which may be even more important: how a politician campaigns tells you a lot about how he or she would govern. I’m not talking about the theory, often advanced as a defense of horse-race political reporting, that the skills needed to run a winning campaign are the same as those needed to run the country. The contrast between the Bush political team’s ruthless effectiveness and the heckuva job done by the Bush administration is living, breathing, bumbling, and, in the case of the emerging Interior Department scandal, coke-snorting and bed-hopping proof to the contrary. I’m talking, instead, about the relationship between the character of a campaign and that of the administration that follows. Thus, the deceptive and dishonest 2000 Bush-Cheney campaign provided an all-too-revealing preview of things to come. In fact, my early suspicion that we were being misled about the threat from Iraq came from the way the political tactics being used to sell the war resembled the tactics that had earlier been used to sell the Bush tax cuts. And now the team that hopes to form the next administration is running a campaign that makes Bush-Cheney 2000 look like something out of a civics class. What does that say about how that team would run the country? What it says, I’d argue, is that the Obama campaign is wrong to suggest that a McCain-Palin administration would just be a continuation of Bush-Cheney. If the way John McCain and Sarah Palin are campaigning is any indication, it would be much, much worse. |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 14 2008, 02:01 AM Post #2124 |
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MaccaMomma
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So what do the Obama/Biden supporters think about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM537BgCsMg |
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| beatlechick | Sep 14 2008, 02:11 AM Post #2125 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Since it isn't true, it doesn't bother me at all. If Hillary were on the ticket, I would still vote for Obama as I am an Obama supporter. However I am not, nor was I ever a Hillary supporter mainly because of her views on the Iraq war. She changed her mind way to late, showing me she didn't change her mind because she felt it wrong but changed her mind because we felt it wrong. |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 14 2008, 02:37 AM Post #2126 |
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MaccaMomma
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But how do you feel about Biden himself saying that he felt Hillary would've been a better choice than him for VP? |
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| beatlechick | Sep 14 2008, 06:54 AM Post #2127 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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What do I feel about it? I would have liked to have seen the full text and not just a portion. It's not the truth, like I said, anyway. |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Sep 14 2008, 08:05 AM Post #2128 |
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LOLcat Freak
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Tina Fay was on SNL tonight and did a dead on impression of Sarah Palin. I saw it on YouTube, but I'm too lazy to get the URL.
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| FamousGroupie | Sep 14 2008, 08:16 AM Post #2129 |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBH1gleAyf4 It helps that they look similar. |
| I don't believe in Bondi. I don't believe in rugby league. I believe in Yoko, John Lennon, the Lost Weekend and me. | |
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| Bill | Sep 14 2008, 10:37 AM Post #2130 |
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Who gives a flying? If Biden felt he wasn't up to the job, he wouldn't have accepted it. If Obama didn't feel Biden was up to the job, he wouldn't have chosen him. And when it comes to being on the right side of history, I'll put Obama's judgement up against Clinton, McCain and Palin put together. Another phoney controversy over. Thank you and goodnight.
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| Jacaranda | Sep 14 2008, 12:11 PM Post #2131 |
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Here it is Tina Fey is brilliant -- Clare's link was gone.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc3Zxq078ns |
![]() "If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through." General Melchett, Blackadder Goes Forth | |
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| Rose | Sep 14 2008, 02:59 PM Post #2132 |
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Well, here's another clue for you all, the Walrus was Paul...
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HILARIOUS! The physical resemblance is amazing.
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| Deleted User | Sep 14 2008, 03:53 PM Post #2133 |
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Tina Fey as Palin, Amy Poehler as Clinton in "Saturday Night Live" skit (5:33) |
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| maccascruff | Sep 14 2008, 05:03 PM Post #2134 |
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Sing the Changes
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Don't look at this one unless you like to see dead animals. http://www.grizzlybay.org/SarahPalinInfoPage.htm |
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| retrollama | Sep 14 2008, 08:14 PM Post #2135 |
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Came across this website yesterday: Women Against Sarah Palin From the intro: "On Wednesday, September 3, we sent out an email to 40 friends and colleagues asking them to respond to Sarah Palin’s candidacy as Vice President of the United States. They forwarded the letter to their friends across America. To date, we have received more than 120,000 responses from women of all ages and backgrounds." And here is their original call to action: "Friends and compatriots, We are writing to you because of the fury and dread we have felt since the announcement of Sarah Palin as the Vice-Presidential candidate for the Republican Party. We believe that this terrible decision has surpassed mere partisanship, and that it is a dangerous farce—on the part of a pandering and rudderless Presidential candidate—that has a real possibility of becoming fact. Perhaps like us, as American women, you share the fear of what Ms. Palin and her professed beliefs and proven record could lead to for ourselves and for our present and future daughters. To date, she is against a woman's right to choose, environmental protection, alternative energy development, freedom of speech (as mayor she repeatedly brought up the question of banning books), gun control, the separation of church and state, and polar bears. We want to clarify that we are not against Sarah Palin as a woman, a mother, or, for that matter, a parent of a pregnant teenager, but solely as a rash, incompetent, and all together devastating choice for Vice President. Ms. Palin's political views are in every way a slap in the face to the accomplishments that our mothers and grandmothers so fiercely fought for, and that we've so demonstrably benefited from. First and foremost, Ms. Palin does not represent us. She does not demonstrate or uphold our interests as American women. It is presumed that the inclusion of a woman on the Republican ticket could win over women voters. We want to disagree, publicly. Therefore, we invite you to reply here with a short, succinct message about why you, as a woman living in this country, do not support this candidate as second-in-command for our nation. Please include your name (last initial is fine), age, and place of residence. We will post your responses on a blog called "Women Against Sarah Palin," which we intend to publicize as widely as possible. Please send us your reply at your earliest convenience-the greater the volume of responses we receive, the stronger our message will be. Thank you for your time and action. VIVA! Sincerely, Quinn L. and Lyra K. New York, NY womensaynopalin@gmail.com **PLEASE FORWARD WIDELY! If you send this to 20 women in the next hour, you could be blessed with a country that takes your concerns seriously. Stranger things have happened." |
| What a long, strange trip it's been.... | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 14 2008, 11:42 PM Post #2136 |
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MaccaMomma
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What part is not true; that Biden doesn't feel that way or that Hillary would make a better choice as VP? |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 14 2008, 11:47 PM Post #2137 |
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MaccaMomma
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What's the point here? These pictures are not subject to Palin alone; it's the reality of anyone who hunts. I don't like seeing dead animals or people. Shall we put up pictures of aborted fetuses next?
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 14 2008, 11:51 PM Post #2138 |
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MaccaMomma
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Re-posted below....
Edited by Bag O' Nails, Sep 15 2008, 12:25 AM.
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 14 2008, 11:57 PM Post #2139 |
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MaccaMomma
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Well for starters, I would think that Obama first and foremost wouldn't like to hear that the person he chose to be second in command thought another candidate (and one who was vying for the Presidential office) was the better choice! If I was supporting the Democratic ticket, as a voter I would be concerned about his lack of confidence in himself as being the best VP pick. Why did he even say such a thing? Why is this a "phony" controversy? |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 15 2008, 12:32 AM Post #2140 |
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MaccaMomma
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Another viewpoint: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/09/schreiber.palin/index.html Commentary: Don't underestimate Palin's appeal to women by Ronnee Schreiber: Story Highlights: ~Democrats shouldn't underestimate conservative women ~Conservative women have growing network of activists, Schreiber says ~They emulate feminists with women's perspective on conservative views, she says ~ Palin supported by large conservative women's organizations By Ronnee Schreiber Special to CNN Editor's Note: Ronnee Schreiber, author of "Righting Feminism: Conservative Women and American Politics," is a political science professor at San Diego State University. She is a registered Democrat. SAN DIEGO, California (CNN) -- The nomination of Sarah Palin has turned our assumptions about women and politics on their head. Many Democrats have presumed that her policy positions run contrary to those held by women, and that women will not vote for her. To that end, feminist icon Gloria Steinem argued in the Los Angeles Times: "Republicans may learn they can't appeal to right-wing patriarchs and most women at the same time." But that is not true. After all, 48 percent of women voted for President Bush in 2004. Also, the latest CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll shows that 53 percent of women have a favorable opinion of Palin. If Democrats want to win in November, they should not underestimate conservative women and their ever-growing network of organizations and activists. Commentators missed the mark when they speculated ad nauseam that Sen. John McCain chose a woman mostly to appeal to Clinton voters. Having Palin on the ticket is not just about seeking supporters of Sen. Hillary Clinton -- it is about energizing Republican women and bringing undecided women who like the way conservative women speak to them into McCain's camp. With McCain's choice of Palin for his running mate, he has introduced the public to the political strategy of "femball." I learned of this concept when interviewing Anita Blair, the co-founder of the right-wing Independent Women's Forum. Playing "femball" means taking a page from feminist activists by talking about conservative issues from the perspective of women and having women make political claims. And "femball" may well work for conservatives in this election. In her recent op-ed article, Steinem compared Palin to Phyllis Schlafly, and that's an apt comparison. Although feminists may count that as a negative mark against Palin, there are large numbers of women who would find that comparison appealing. And we should not forget that Schlafly helped defeat the Equal Rights Amendment, in part by invoking her gender. Now, continuing in Schlafly's footsteps are nationally prominent groups like the Independent Women's Forum, Concerned Women for America and the Clare Booth Luce Policy Institute, which encourage their conservative political soul sisters to articulate the Republican line on issues like abortion, affirmative action, tax cuts, same-sex marriage and tort reform -- as women and for women. Having women speak for these causes helps legitimate them to other women and casts the Republican Party as one that cares about women's interests. Not surprisingly, the former president of the Independent Women's Forum, Nancy Pfotenhauer, is now a senior policy adviser for the McCain campaign. McCain's pick of Palin is not lost on conservative women's advocates; indeed, it helps solidify their stance that women need to be speaking out for conservative causes -- that these women need to play "femball." Concerned Women for America, arguably the nation's largest women's organization, with local chapters in every state, praised Palin, not just because she opposes abortion but because she is a "woman of accomplishment who brings a fresh face to traditional values and models the type of woman most girls want to become." Equally celebrated was that she "will bring to the forefront of our cultural conversations an intelligent, realistic, well-grounded woman's perspective." For groups like Concerned Women for America, Palin embodies modern conservative womanhood -- she is politically active, personally motivated and decidedly conservative. Independent Women's Forum has been at times reluctant to say that gender matters when it comes to who we elect. Yet it now touts the significance of Palin's being a woman. And why not? Palin might be able to bring some undecided, yet moderately conservative women into their fold, especially if she is branded as the "everywoman" as in this observation by IWF President Michelle Bernard: "Sarah Palin might not win the votes of left-wing feminists, but she appeals to average women and men across the country." On the one hand, Palin's nomination and conservative women's activism are bad news for liberals and progressives -- a McCain victory would clearly sideline feminist policy priorities for another four years. But there is a glimmer of affirmation here -- it shows how the feminist movement has been successful in promoting the idea that women are serious political actors. Palin clearly acknowledges this triumph and is eager to run with it. As she noted in her acceptance speech: "It turns out the women of America aren't finished yet, and we can shatter that glass ceiling once and for all." Of course, Palin has feminists to thank for that. Whether or not you support McCain/Palin (and to be clear, I do not), it is a huge mistake to think of conservative women as pawns of right-wing men who will matter little in this election. These activists and Palin's nomination show us how much power and political significance they actually possess |
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| retrollama | Sep 15 2008, 12:57 AM Post #2141 |
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Did you read anything on that page? It wasn't just about the pictures I found this quite interesting: "NEWS UPDATE (9/13/08): Anti-Palin rally draws hundreds in Alaska (Corresponding pro-Palin rally attacts less than 50 people)." |
| What a long, strange trip it's been.... | |
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| Jacaranda | Sep 15 2008, 01:22 AM Post #2142 |
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Thank you Lisa for the Women Against Sarah Palin site. I appreciate that. Also, I just found out but am not surprised that NEA (National Education Association) endorses Obama, through a secret ballot of their membership supported him with an 80% vote. This is based on the questionnaire he answered about his plans for public education. John McCain did not bother to answer the questionnaire. |
![]() "If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through." General Melchett, Blackadder Goes Forth | |
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| Bill | Sep 15 2008, 01:36 AM Post #2143 |
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That is a complete distortion of the facts. 48% of women who voted at all voted for Bush. There was a 57% voter turnout in 2004. 48% of 57% is 27.36%. That's not exactly a majority. In fact, it's closer to Bush's actual approval rating right now. This is what happens when you when you happily accept what someone tells you without thinking critically about it. Edited by Bill, Sep 15 2008, 01:37 AM.
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| Bill | Sep 15 2008, 01:39 AM Post #2144 |
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Well, you're not supporting the Democratic ticket anyway, so the point is moot. Why would John McCain say he knows nothing about economics? Speaking of which.... |
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| maccascruff | Sep 15 2008, 01:42 AM Post #2145 |
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Sing the Changes
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The point is the hypocrisy. If human life is so important, what about the lives of animals? |
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| Bill | Sep 15 2008, 01:44 AM Post #2146 |
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McCain economic advisor admits the next president will have to raise taxes http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/the_mccain_tax_increasescontin.html
Any thoughts from the conservatives in the room? Edited by Bill, Sep 15 2008, 01:47 AM.
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| maccascruff | Sep 15 2008, 01:45 AM Post #2147 |
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Sing the Changes
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I can't wait to watch Biden chew up Palin alive during the vice presidential debate. He is going to have a field day with her. Why is McCain so afraid to let the press near Palin? Why does she only campaign in friendly territory alone? Why do her children seem to always be with her? Doesn't that make them fair game? |
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| Bill | Sep 15 2008, 01:48 AM Post #2148 |
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I don't think it does since they're not in a position to say no if they want to. However, I do think it's fair game to cite Bristol's pregnancy as a result of abstinence-only sex education. |
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| maccascruff | Sep 15 2008, 01:52 AM Post #2149 |
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Sing the Changes
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The editorial cartoonists seem to think the daughter's pregnancy is fair game, too, since Palin stands for abstinence only. Look at what happened in her family--now another child will be raising a child--or mom and dad will need to help their daughter, which I'm sure they will. I basically meant the pregnant daughter. She seems to always be holding the baby. Don't these kids go to school? Edited by maccascruff, Sep 15 2008, 02:01 AM.
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| Bill | Sep 15 2008, 01:53 AM Post #2150 |
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Good point!
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| Jacaranda | Sep 15 2008, 01:57 AM Post #2151 |
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I'm hoping for a bright spot to come out of this situation, and I hope the debates will be it. I worry terribly about the outcome of this election. |
![]() "If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through." General Melchett, Blackadder Goes Forth | |
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| maccascruff | Sep 15 2008, 02:03 AM Post #2152 |
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Sing the Changes
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I do, too, Lisa. If Obama doesn't win, I don't know what I will do. Four years ago, I tried to figure out a way to go to Canada, but I'm too old and they don't want me. I don't want to live here under four more years of what we have had and it's very obvious that is what we will get under McCain. |
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| Bill | Sep 15 2008, 02:05 AM Post #2153 |
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TRIVIA: Who said this? McCain has gone in some of his ads similarly gone one step too far in sort of attributing to Obama things that are, you know…beyond, beyond, beyond the, the 100% truth test. Answer HERE. |
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| maccascruff | Sep 15 2008, 02:08 AM Post #2154 |
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Sing the Changes
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Incredible. And people will still vote for McCain. |
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| maccascruff | Sep 15 2008, 02:12 AM Post #2155 |
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Sing the Changes
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http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/14/campaign.wrap/index.html?section=cnn_latest (CNN) -- Former Bush adviser Karl Rove said Sunday that Sen. John McCain had gone "one step too far" in some of his recent ads attacking Sen. Barack Obama. Rove has leveled similar criticism against Obama. "McCain has gone in some of his ads -- similarly gone one step too far," he told Fox News, "and sort of attributing to Obama things that are, you know, beyond the '100 percent truth' test." The Obama campaign immediately leaped on the quote. "In case anyone was still wondering whether John McCain is running the sleaziest, most dishonest campaign in history, today Karl Rove -- the man who held the previous record -- said McCain's ads have gone too far," said campaign spokesman Tommy Vietor, in a statement sent to reporters minutes after Rove's on-air comments. Rove masterminded both of President Bush's successful White House bids. Rove said both candidates need to "be careful" about their attacks on each other. "They ought to -- there ought to be an adult who says, 'Do we really need to go that far in this ad? Don't we make our point and won't we get broader acceptance and deny the opposition an opportunity to attack us if we don't include that one little last tweak in the ad?' " he said. Obama on Saturday accused McCain and vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin of avoiding the issues to "distort" his record. Obama on Saturday accused McCain and vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin of avoiding the issues to "distort" his record. "They're going to talk about pigs, and they're going to talk about lipstick; they're going to talk about Paris Hilton, they're going to talk about Britney Spears. They will try to distort my record, and they will try to undermine your trust in what the Democrats intend to do," he said at a stop in Manchester, New Hampshire. |
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| Jacaranda | Sep 15 2008, 02:13 AM Post #2156 |
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Linda, this is actually the first time I am scared what the outcome of this election will mean. Palin terrifies me; McCain mortifies me. Bill and Andy, I have always appreciated your viewpoints and clarity on the political process here and our upcoming election. I feel that you are completely and utterly within your rights to comment and have opinions on this situation as citizens of the world and a world so devastatingly affected by the U.S. However, I will say that you can't know the feelings we have -- how deeply we here will be affected and how much it (very obviously) it can and will impact even our daily lives from moment to moment. The value of my house, how and what and the way my child studies in school, the prices we pay for every thing we need or don't, the laws that govern how we conduct our lives, the proportion we do or don't give of our hard-earned money to the government and what insane way it gets to be spent. Our very freedom to not be locked away without due jurisprudence. I worry also about the future, the country that will be left for my child and everyone who will come after her. Will there be anything left? |
![]() "If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through." General Melchett, Blackadder Goes Forth | |
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| maccascruff | Sep 15 2008, 02:14 AM Post #2157 |
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Sing the Changes
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I am so proud of my 84 year old parents. They got called by the Republican Party today, as they are registered Republicans. They had told me earlier that they could not vote for a black man. They told the party that they are voting for Obama. I asked them if that was what they would be doing and they said absolutely. |
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| retrollama | Sep 15 2008, 02:14 AM Post #2158 |
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You're welcome, Lisa. It's quite an interesting read, no? As a teacher, the candidates' positions on education are obviously a big issue for me. I printed the NEA article for everyone at work last week. Here's the link: Candidate Comparison
You and me both.
Edited by retrollama, Sep 15 2008, 02:38 AM.
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| What a long, strange trip it's been.... | |
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| Deleted User | Sep 15 2008, 02:26 AM Post #2159 |
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Deleted User
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VERY well said Lisa. I think you only know a country when you live there, when you are part of it. |
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| Bill | Sep 15 2008, 02:33 AM Post #2160 |
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You know you've gone beyond the pale when even Karl Rove says you're lying, and he's on your side. |
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| Mia Culpa | Sep 15 2008, 04:44 AM Post #2161 |
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In the endless American election both sides said they'd stick to the issues and not get into personal attacks and spin. So from what I've read and seen here are the issues that divide the United States: Democrats Experience doesn't matter that much, unless the other side picks somebody without much experience. Then it's paramount. It's dangerous to put somebody without much experience a heartbeat away from the White House but it's ok to put somebody without much experience directly in the White House. Obama wants to move forward and get away from the old boy's network, so he picked a running mate who's been in Washington longer than all the other candidates combined. Alaska doesn't have that many people so it doesn't count. Not like Delaware. It doesn't matter if the candidate has an Arab name. That has nothing to do with running the country. But if the other side's children have weird names it matters. Having real estate investments is bad somehow. Abortion laws won't change so it's important to elect somebody who supports abortion. The other side uses attack ads that distort the truth. Republicans Experience matters, unless they pick somebody who doesn't have much. People who wear flag pins are more qualified to be president than people who don't. Being a community organiser doesn't prepare one for running a country, but being a prisoner of war does. Living near another country counts as foreign policy experience. Muslims can't be president. Neither can people who you think are Muslim. The other guy went to church for 20 years under a divisive preacher, but leave their girl alone when it comes to her divisive preacher. Attack dogs wear lipstick. Abortion laws won't change so it's important to elect somebody who opposes abortion. The other side uses attack ads that distort the truth. In many countries political issues are important life or death subjects that can tear a nation apart. Politicians debate how to deal with famine, terrorism, genocide, medical epidemics, rebellion. American politicians always say they'll stick to the issues but once the election's near they always resort to attacks. All of them. Even the great saviour Obama. |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| fab4fan | Sep 15 2008, 04:47 AM Post #2162 |
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Caretaker
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What an excellent post! |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| beatlechick | Sep 15 2008, 05:07 AM Post #2163 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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He should know. He's helping to run the campaign. |
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| beatlechick | Sep 15 2008, 05:17 AM Post #2164 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Excellent point. As much as I hate to say this, McCain is not the politician that scares me the most. Palin pretty much does. Not so much for her views but to think that having the ability to deploy the National Guard for emergencies and being able to see Russia from certain points in Alaska is by no means experience for foreign policy. Hell Gov. Ahhnie can do the very same thing and from certain points of California you can see Mexico. Hell certain points of California you can take a tunnel to Mexico. Granted Mexico is not as much of a threat as Russia but it's about the same amount of foreign policy experience Palin has. My hope, and I am happy that Obama has been told this, is that Obama will let her be. Only time will tell if she can withstand the pressure of an election and come out smelling like a candidate or come out falling flat on her face. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 15 2008, 05:24 AM Post #2165 |
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Deleted User
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I trust McCain to not let Palin make any important decisions if he is elected. He is too smart for that. |
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| beatlechick | Sep 15 2008, 05:56 AM Post #2166 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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sh*t, this is getting totally f*cked up and scary! Lehman rescue fails, B of A buys Merrilly Lynch Lehman rescue fails, BofA buys Merrill for $50B By JOE BEL BRUNO, CHRISTOPHER S. RUGABER and MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Business Writers A failed plan to rescue Lehman Brothers was followed Sunday by more seismic shocks from Wall Street, including a government-brokered takeover of Merrill Lynch by the Bank of America for $50 billion. A forced restructuring of the world's largest insurance company, American International Group Inc., also weighed heavily on global markets as the effects of the 14-month-old credit crisis intensified. A global consortium of banks, working with government officials in New York, announced late Sunday a $70 billion pool of funds to lend to troubled financial companies. The aim, according to participants who spoke to The Associated Press, was to prevent a worldwide panic on stock and other financial exchanges. Ten banks — Bank of America, Barclays, Citibank, Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley and UBS — each agreed to provide $7 billion "to help enhance liquidity and mitigate the unprecedented volatility and other challenges affecting global equity and debt markets." The Federal Reserve also chipped in with more largesse in its emergency lending program for investment banks. The central bank announced late Sunday that it was broadening the types of collateral that financial institutions can use to obtain loans from the Fed. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said the discussions had been aimed at identifying "potential market vulnerabilities in the wake of an unwinding of a major financial institution and to consider appropriate official sector and private sector responses." Futures pegged to the Dow Jones industrial average fell more than 300 points in electronic trading Sunday evening, pointing to a sharply lower open for the blue chip index Monday morning. Asian stock markets were also falling. The stunning weekend developments took place as voters, who rank the economy as their top concern, prepare to elect a new president in seven weeks. It likely will spur a much greater focus by presidential candidates — Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama — and members of Congress on the need for stricter financial regulation. Samuel Hayes, finance professor emeritus at Harvard Business School, said the Bush administration may get a lot of blame for the situation, which could benefit Obama. "Just the psychological impact of this kind of failure is going to be significant," he said. "It will color people's feelings about their well-being and the integrity of the financial system." Lehman Brothers may be forced to seek an orderly unwinding of its businesses. All potential buyers walked away after the U.S. Treasury refused to budge on its refusal to provide any takeover aid, as it had done six months ago when Bear Stearns faltered and earlier this month when it seized Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Expectations that the 158-year-old Lehman would survive dimmed after Barclays PLC withdrew its bid to buy the investment bank. Barclays and Bank of America were considered front-runners to buy Lehman, which is foundering under the weight of $60 billion in soured real estate holdings. Employees emerging Sunday night from Lehman's headquarters near the heart of Times Square carried boxes, tote bags and duffel bags, rolling suitcases, framed artwork and spare umbrellas. Many were emblazoned with the Lehman Brothers name. TV trucks lined Seventh Avenue opposite the building, while barricades at the building's main entrance attempted to keep workers and onlookers from gumming up the steady flow of pedestrians flowing in and out of Times Square. Some workers had moist eyes while a few others wept and shared hugs. Most who left the building quietly declined interviews. People snapped pictures with cameras and their phones. Observers pressed up against a police barricade drew the ire of one man who emerged from the building and shouted: "Are you enjoying watching this? You think this is funny?" Merrill Lynch, another investment bank laid low by the crisis that was triggered by rising mortgage defaults and plunging home values in the U.S., agreed to be acquired by Bank of America for $29 a share, according to a person briefed on the deal who spoke on condition of anonymity because the agreement had not yet been finalized. That's a premium to its closing price on Friday of $17.05, but only a fraction of its price of almost $100 a share early in 2007. Charlotte, N.C.-based Bank of America has the most deposits of any U.S. bank, while Merrill Lynch is the world's largest brokerage. A combination of the two would create a global financial giant to rival Citigroup Inc., the biggest U.S. bank in terms of assets. Strategically, most industry analysts say it's a good fit. If the deal goes according to plan, Bank of America will be able to offer Merrill's retail brokerage services to its huge customer base. There is not a great deal of overlap between the two companies — Bank of America does have an investment bank already, but it has never been terribly strong. Where there is duplication, however, the combination of the two companies could result in more layoffs. Both Merrill and Bank of America have already cut thousands of investment banking jobs over the past year. The deal would not come without risks, however. Merrill Lynch, like many of its Wall Street peers, has been struggling with tight credit markets and billions of dollars in assets tied to mortgages that have plunged in value. Merrill has reported four straight quarterly losses. And Bank of America's own finances are far from robust. As consumer credit deteriorates, the bank has seen its profits decline, and the company is still in the midst of absorbing the embattled mortgage lender Countrywide Financial, which it acquired in January. Insurer AIG, hit hard by deterioration in the credit markets, said Sunday it is reviewing its operations and discussing possible options with outside parties to improve its business after a week when its stock dropped 45 percent amid concerns about the company's financial underpinnings. It was working with New York Insurance Superintendent Eric Dinallo and a representative of the governor's office through the weekend to craft a solution that protects policyholders, according to Dinallo's spokesman David Neustadt. Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson was huddled through the weekend at the New York Federal Reserve's fortress-like building in downtown Manhattan with executives from major banks and investment houses to hash out the fate of Lehman Brothers and to staunch the bleeding on Wall Street that threatened to shatter investor confidence around the globe. "It's clear we're one step away from a financial meltdown," said Nouriel Roubini, chairman of the consulting firm RGE Monitor. The meetings that began Friday night were a who's who of financial heavyweights: Paulson, Timothy Geithner, president of the New York Fed, Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman Christopher Cox, and a host of CEOs, including Vikram Pandit of Citigroup Inc., Jamie Dimon of JPMorgan Chase & Co., John Mack of Morgan Stanley, Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs Group Inc., and Merrill Lynch & Co.'s John Thain. For all their efforts, Lehman appeared ready to file for bankruptcy. The end of Lehman may not stop the financial crisis that has gripped Wall Street for months, analysts said. More investment banks could disappear soon. The independent broker-dealers "are going the way of the dodo bird," said Bert Ely, an Alexandria, Va.-based banking consultant. That's partly because some of the firms, particularly Merrill, made bad bets on real estate. But several analysts said that investment companies will need the deep pockets of commercial banks to survive the next few years. Roubini said with no deal for Lehman, Merrill and the other investment firms would have been hit with a "run on the bank," as hedge funds and other clients withdraw funds and banks become reluctant to lend to them. Many of the investment banks rely on short-term loans to finance their day-to-day operations. The cost of insuring financial firms' debt from default has been soaring. A rise in the cost of the insurance, known as credit default swaps, indicates debt holders believe there is a greater chance of default by the financial companies. Especially over the past week, those insurance costs have been increasing rapidly as more debt holders fear companies like Lehman Brothers and Washington Mutual Inc. could collapse and not be able to repay their debt. Swaps on most financial firms are likely to get even worse during the upcoming week, analysts said. On Sunday, there was also an emergency trading session being held at the International Swaps and Derivatives Association to "reduce risk associated with a potential Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. bankruptcy." The ISDA, which arranges trades for derivatives, said it was allowing customers to make trades and unwind positions linked to Lehman — but that those trades would be Roubini said it's difficult to accurately gauge the health of companies like Merrill because their financial health depends on how they value complex securities. As a result, their finances aren't very transparent, he said. That can lead to a loss of confidence in the financial markets, he said, which can overwhelm an investment bank even if it is financially healthy by some measures. "Once you lose confidence, the fundamentals matter less," he said. Ely said similar shake-outs have happened in other parts of the financial industry, such as credit cards and thrifts. Bank of America acquired independent credit card issuer MBNA in 2005, for example, while credit card company Capital One Financial Corp. has diversified itself by purchasing regional banks in Louisiana, Texas and New York. The common denominator of the financial crisis, analysts said, is the bursting of the housing bubble. Home prices have dropped on average 25 percent so far. Roubini predicted they could drop another 15 percent. The crisis has begun to slow the broader economy as banks make fewer loans and consumers have begun cutting spending. Many economists are now forecasting that the economy could slip into recession by the end of this year and early next year. That, in turn, could cause additional losses for commercial banks on credit cards, auto loans and student loans. The Fed is widely expected to keep interest rates steady at 2 percent, below inflation, when it meets Tuesday. It was possible, however, that the central bank might decide in coming weeks to cut rates if such a move is seen as needed to calm turbulent financial markets. The International Monetary Fund predicted earlier this year that total losses from the credit crisis could reach almost $1 trillion. So far, banks have only taken about $350 billion in losses. Commercial banks are also starting to feel the pinch. Eleven have closed so far this year, including Pasadena, Calif.-based IndyMac Bank, which had $32 billion in assets and $19 billion in deposits. Christopher Whalen, managing director of Institutional Risk Analytics, a research firm, predicts that approximately 110 banks with $850 billion in assets could close by next July. That's out of 8,400 federally insured institutions, he said, which together hold $13 trillion in assets. Individual customers are starting to get nervous about the financial health of their banks for the first time in generations, he said. Whalen's firm analyzes the safety and soundness of banks for business clients, but began receiving inquiries from individuals in the past two months for the first time, he said. "If we don't get ahead of this, we are going to face a run on the retail banks by election day," he said. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Sep 15 2008, 03:04 PM Post #2167 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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On the contrary, Lisa, I worry about my low-income 'mother-in-law' who is currently on food stamps, existing purely because she has (diminishing) capital on her house and who is exactly the sort of person who the Republicans won't help and the Democrats will. I live with an American citizen and perhaps one day I will also be an American citizen. You could say that I have a vested interest and the outcome of this election is very real and important to me.
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| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Jacaranda | Sep 15 2008, 03:09 PM Post #2168 |
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Of course Andy, I forgot. Silly me.I hope that all goes well too for Fiona's mom and you and Fiona and you still want to join us here someday.
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![]() "If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through." General Melchett, Blackadder Goes Forth | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 15 2008, 06:25 PM Post #2169 |
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MaccaMomma
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I can't wait for that debate, too! Uh, maybe her children are with her because she's their Mom? Sheesh, this utter hatred for Palin from the Demo camp is utterly fascinating!
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![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 15 2008, 06:28 PM Post #2170 |
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MaccaMomma
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Maybe they are.....gasp....home-schooled???
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![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 15 2008, 06:29 PM Post #2171 |
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MaccaMomma
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Yup....a whoooooole lot of us!
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![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 15 2008, 06:33 PM Post #2172 |
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MaccaMomma
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Certainly I read the entire thing! However the post warned us not to look at it if you don't like dead animals, meaning (to me) that it was about the fact that she hunts. The other parts of that article could've been quoted without the pictures.
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![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 15 2008, 06:36 PM Post #2173 |
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MaccaMomma
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Any comments about the article I posted?
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![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| BlueMolly2009 | Sep 15 2008, 09:29 PM Post #2174 |
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LOLcat Freak
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Here's what I don't get: Why people have to be so divided when it comes to politics? Why does every campaign have to turn into a personal attack against each candidate, instead of focusing on the ISSUES. I don't want to hear about your personal attacks, I want to hear why you want me to vote for you. Why people hate Sarah Palin so much. I mean I'm not fan of her politics, but I wouldn't mind sitting and having a conversation with her. Politics aside, she seems like a person I'd sit and have a nice chat with. I guess it's my small town girl coming out. Why can't both parties work together instead of bickering with each other. I bet things would work better if people would compromise. Those of the questions I'd love to get answered. I'm sick of the whole political process. Both parties need to be ashamed of themselves for the way they act, IMHO. |
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 15 2008, 10:01 PM Post #2175 |
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MaccaMomma
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I hear you, Molly, and I agree with a lot of what you said.
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| Corvair | Sep 15 2008, 10:53 PM Post #2176 |
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You can take a test here to see on how many issues you agree with Barack 0bama. http://www.barackobamatest.com/ (Turns out I disagree 96% of the time.) |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 15 2008, 11:13 PM Post #2177 |
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MaccaMomma
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According to that questionnaire, I disagreed with Obama's policies 87% of the time; no surprise there Don't be surprised if some don't like the way in which some of these questions were asked....
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| beatlechick | Sep 15 2008, 11:15 PM Post #2178 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Actually for a lot of people, seeing dead animals from a hunt or otherwise is upsetting so a disclaimer was warranted. I almost didn't look. I wish I hadn't. Had little to do with Sarah Palin it was seeing dead animals killed from a stupid hunt. Edited by beatlechick, Sep 15 2008, 11:21 PM.
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| beatlechick | Sep 15 2008, 11:17 PM Post #2179 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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What about the one I posted, Heidi? A little bit more important and one we all have to live with. But I digress. You're point? |
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| beatlechick | Sep 15 2008, 11:20 PM Post #2180 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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I agree with a lot of what you said. However, I can never sit down and have a heart-to-heart talk with a hunter. Never. I hate the so-called "sport" and could never knowingly talk to someone who hunts. And the Drill Baby Drill bit is very annoying especially when it won't do a damn bit of good. We need to invest time and money into alternative fuels. |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 15 2008, 11:21 PM Post #2181 |
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MaccaMomma
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Cathy, My point is that kudos and back-slapping will be made for those who post their own points of view and nothing will be said about a counter-point.
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 15 2008, 11:23 PM Post #2182 |
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MaccaMomma
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The article could've been posted without those pictures. The same people who post these blogs (not referring to Linda; rather the authors of the blog) also say assinine things about Palin, like "Palin kills mother of Bamb!!" Give me a break!
Edited by Bag O' Nails, Sep 15 2008, 11:26 PM.
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| beatlechick | Sep 15 2008, 11:36 PM Post #2183 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Turns out, I'm voting for the right people.........
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| beatlechick | Sep 15 2008, 11:38 PM Post #2184 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Since I was a child, I always thought of hunters as killing Bambi's mother. In that regard, I would agree. But don't discount the fact that many of us people who abhor hunting will say that. I have, and have for a very long time. |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 15 2008, 11:51 PM Post #2185 |
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MaccaMomma
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Personally speaking, I abhor hunting as a sport! But these pictures and the blogs I referred to are nothing but liberal smear tactics against Palin. |
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| beatlechick | Sep 15 2008, 11:56 PM Post #2186 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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For those of us that have been affected by the train crash in Chatsworth, in one or another, in the LA and California area I found this to be a very nice gesture Sarah Gallagher blogging about the train crash
Many of us in my area are quite upset by this crash. Even though most of us didn't know anybody killed on the train, it still has us quiet and mournful. My City, Simi Valley, was badly affected. We were the next stop and many of the dead and wounded were coming home to Simi. Unfortunately I didn't see anything like this on the McCain website. Wish I did. I really do. The deaths of 26 people, thus far, is not something that should be ignored. |
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| beatlechick | Sep 15 2008, 11:58 PM Post #2187 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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How can it be smear tactics when those pictures are telling the truth? The blog part, I didn't pay that much attention to but she is a hunter. |
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| Corvair | Sep 16 2008, 12:02 AM Post #2188 |
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Great! I'll be canceling your vote.
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 12:07 AM Post #2189 |
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MaccaMomma
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Because, Cathy...not everyone thinks hunting is "evil" or wrong! So they're obviously trying to use that against her. Let's not dislike her because of her politics...let's diss her because she hunts! For cryin' out loud...lots of people in the rural areas of this country hunt! I don't like it, but I don't hate her for it nor is that a reason for me not to vote for the Repub ticket! Others on here said just the opposite....that the blog part was the important issue; not the hunter pictures! |
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 12:08 AM Post #2190 |
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MaccaMomma
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While this is a horrible incident, why politicize it?
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| beatlechick | Sep 16 2008, 12:10 AM Post #2191 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Do I look like I'm one of the others? I may be for Obama but I don't pay attention to the bloggers, though some do ring some truth and we all know truth hurts. For me, hunting is a big issue. I tend to lose respect for hunters. That's why I refuse to eat meat. I won't kill or eat someone else's kill if it isn't needed. |
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| beatlechick | Sep 16 2008, 12:15 AM Post #2192 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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It isn't politicizing it. It's bringing attention to the hurt a lot of us feel. You obviously were not affected by it. We were. All over the radio and tv there is call for blood. It's nice to know that others care about what we are going through. If people didn't care, why politicize (as you put it) the past two hurricanes? Why would I, or anyone else not affected, want to help out as best we can to support the victims? Why would we want to give to the American Red Cross to help out? Why would we want to raise money to help out the Chinese after their earthquake or the victims of the Tsunami? It's the same thing here. Maybe you didn't read the part where I stated I really wanted to see it in McCain's website? Edited by beatlechick, Sep 16 2008, 12:17 AM.
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 12:17 AM Post #2193 |
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MaccaMomma
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I respect your views; we all have issues that are important to us. I'm just pointing out that one issue is not a reason to not vote for someone. Is Obama a vegetarian?
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 12:20 AM Post #2194 |
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MaccaMomma
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Cathy, don't get me wrong! I live in northern CA so I was not personally affected by this terrible accident; neither was I personally affected by these two horrible hurricanes. It doesn't mean that I don't care; I do! I give to the Red Cross relief funds to help these people out; I think it's our duty as humans and Americans to help! But what I'm saying is that because it wasn't listed on McCain's website doesn't mean he/Republicans don't care! I went to Obama's official website and didn't see it; can you please post a link? |
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| beatlechick | Sep 16 2008, 12:23 AM Post #2195 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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I did. Edited by beatlechick, Sep 16 2008, 12:24 AM.
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| Bag O' Nails | Sep 16 2008, 12:26 AM Post #2196 |
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MaccaMomma
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Cathy, The link didn't work; it said "ERROR: invalid page requested" but nevermind....I searched some more on my own and found it. Edited by Bag O' Nails, Sep 16 2008, 12:26 AM.
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| beatlechick | Sep 16 2008, 12:30 AM Post #2197 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Sarah Gallagher blogs about the train crash in Chatsworth. |
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| Bill | Sep 16 2008, 12:39 AM Post #2198 |
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I had considered that, but didn't want to say it for fear of being accused of "hatred." Does home-schooling mean they can have they day off whenever Mom needs to go out campaigning? It's a fair question to ask why we've seen more of Palin's kids in the last three weeks than we have of Obama's kids all year. Sorry for being so "hateful."
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| BlueMolly2009 | Sep 16 2008, 12:43 AM Post #2199 |
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LOLcat Freak
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Heidi and Cathy, do I have to split you two up?
I'm biting my tongue and not saying anything, but the conversation has been really interesting. It's been fairly civil, and I hope it stays that way.
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| beatlechick | Sep 16 2008, 12:43 AM Post #2200 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Now I've seen it all! Get your Presidential Action Figure before they're all gone! Herobuilders.com How stupid. |
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) Wouldn't call that stubborn pride,
more like what's fair is fair.

), then that's why I comment.






The thing about the new baby really being her daughter's was such obvious bullsh*t that I didn't pay it any more attention and put it out of my mind. I don't believe she's had an affair but the truth is, I couldn't care less if she did. Marital fidelity has nothing to do with one's ability to do their job. That applies to Edwards, it applies to Clinton, it applies to Kennedy, it applies to Eisenhower and it applies to Palin. I really couldn't care less either way.


I saw it on YouTube, but I'm too lazy to get the URL.



2:01 PM Jul 11