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2008 U.S. Presidential Election
Topic Started: Feb 22 2007, 05:49 AM (37,429 Views)
Bill
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I'm sometimes criticised for speaking out about American politics while being an auslander, but I'll tell you this much:

Sarah, I know what the vice-president does. Why didn't you?
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BlueMolly2009
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The thing that pisses me off is a few comments I've heard today from Democrats think that being a mother of 5 children and one with special needs won't be able to do her job. I don't think that's not going to get in her way.
I'm not saying I'm going to go over to McCain's camp, but that's one thing that irked me a bit.
I think a lot of the Democrats who were going for Hilary's vote is probably going to go to McCain because of Governor Palin.
Oh btw, does anyone know if she has any relation to Michael Palin of Monty Python? That would be interesting. Even if it's on her husband's side.
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beatlechick
Aug 30 2008, 03:06 AM
I find interesting that no one has yet stated that her 6 month old child has down syndrome. From what I heard she refused to have an abortion which is something that endears her to McCain.

Lapis, I see nothing there that even compares to Hillary. Hillary may be a Senator but she was a lawyer first who happened to have been married to a President. Not much compares the two, if I am wrong please correct me.
Oh, that was complete and total SARCASM! It's an insult to Hillary and all women that John McCain thinks any disgruntled supporter of Hillary will EVER vote for the McCain/Palin ticket. Yes, Palin IS a woman, but she is in no way qualified to be a heartbeat away from 'Leader of the Free World'. She is a very nice woman, wife and mother, but not Presidential material.
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Bill
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We need an ironic font here. :lol:
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beatlechick
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BlueMolly2008
Aug 30 2008, 04:15 AM
The thing that pisses me off is a few comments I've heard today from Democrats think that being a mother of 5 children and one with special needs won't be able to do her job. I don't think that's not going to get in her way.
I'm not saying I'm going to go over to McCain's camp, but that's one thing that irked me a bit.
I think a lot of the Democrats who were going for Hilary's vote is probably going to go to McCain because of Governor Palin.
Oh btw, does anyone know if she has any relation to Michael Palin of Monty Python? That would be interesting. Even if it's on her husband's side.
The only criticism I heard were from radio newsreporters who were stating that with an infant, and a special needs infant, at home how would she find the time to be a mother and not be at home very much. So what she's a mother of 5. Not much difference than being a father of 5 except she has based her life personally and politically of family values and motherhood.

Not even Bill Maher touched on that subject. He did with everything else but not that.

I brought it up because I heard the radio newsreporters, an all-news station, talk about it.

Why would Hillary supporters jump to McCain's side because he chose a woman who is totally opposite of what Hillary stood for? That would be a slap in Hillary's face.
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JeffLynnesBeard
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Thank you for the interesting reading on Sarah Palin, Linda.
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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BlueMolly2008
Aug 30 2008, 04:15 AM
The thing that pisses me off is a few comments I've heard today from Democrats think that being a mother of 5 children and one with special needs won't be able to do her job. I don't think that's not going to get in her way.
I'm not saying I'm going to go over to McCain's camp, but that's one thing that irked me a bit.
I think a lot of the Democrats who were going for Hilary's vote is probably going to go to McCain because of Governor Palin.
Oh btw, does anyone know if she has any relation to Michael Palin of Monty Python? That would be interesting. Even if it's on her husband's side.
If you seriously believe that anyone who would have voted for Hillary would go over to McCain because of Sarah Palin then I'm speechless.

Have you read what Palin stands for? She's the complete opposite of Clinton. The only thing she has in common with Hillary is the fact that she's a woman.
...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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beatlechick
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LapisLee
Aug 30 2008, 05:07 AM
beatlechick
Aug 30 2008, 03:06 AM
I find interesting that no one has yet stated that her 6 month old child has down syndrome. From what I heard she refused to have an abortion which is something that endears her to McCain.

Lapis, I see nothing there that even compares to Hillary. Hillary may be a Senator but she was a lawyer first who happened to have been married to a President. Not much compares the two, if I am wrong please correct me.
Oh, that was complete and total SARCASM! It's an insult to Hillary and all women that John McCain thinks any disgruntled supporter of Hillary will EVER vote for the McCain/Palin ticket. Yes, Palin IS a woman, but she is in no way qualified to be a heartbeat away from 'Leader of the Free World'. She is a very nice woman, wife and mother, but not Presidential material.
I completely stand corrected.

Bill Maher was stating why would McCain think that a Hillary supporter would go over to his camp? Does he think they would be that stupid to follow because his running mate has breasts?

One thing that I found odd was that apparently McCain only met with her once..............back in February!! He called her cell phone while she was at the Alaska State Fair last week to ask her to be his running mate. I would hope that was wrong and that he talked with her more than once!
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Bill
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I've heard her introductory speech and I think she might have just declared war in Iran and Russia.

So, let's see what we've got here:

Christian right?
Check!

Denies basic science?
Check!

Insults the electorate's intelligence (by claiming to be carrying the torch for Ferraro and Clinton)?
Check!

Recklessly belligerent towards unstable countries?
Check!

Comically clueless about what the job entails?
Check!


The neoconning of McCain is therefore complete.
I give up on him.
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beatlechick
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Check!

For those of you who were not able to see Obama's great speech at the Democratic National Convention, here it is off Obama's youtube page:

Obama's acceptance speech



This does my heart good, shows that Fox can't always be THAT bad!

Chris Wallace tires of 2 hours of Obama bashing
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McCain sure did pick a winner, Sarah Palin! Never mind breaking the glass ceiling that Hillary already blew away, but she is the first RILF of the grand ole party!
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Bill
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This week's prediction:

In their next bit of me-too-ism, the Republicans will suspect the delegate count as all McCain's Republican rivals line up to fall on their swords for him the way Hillary did for Barack.
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Bill
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beatlechick
Aug 30 2008, 08:28 AM

For those of you who were not able to see Obama's great speech at the Democratic National Convention, here it is off Obama's youtube page:

Obama's acceptance speech

I have seen the new Beatles!
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maccascruff
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Molly, the Repugs are pandering to the conservatives. Those are not the 18 million people who voted for Hillary.

Read Bill's post and do not vote for McCain. Vote for Obama.

You think this woman was fully vetted when McCain only met with her one time? What about the investigation going on in Alaska about her meddling to get her ex-brother-in-law fired. There's been no decision on that, but why would you select a candidate that has those charges?

You should have been in my office yesterday. My boss was totally gleeful and that is all he could talk about. It was just the two of us and it was absolutely horrible to listen to it.

When will this election be over? It can't be too soon for me just because of work.

Bill, you can meddle in US politics any old time you like.
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beatlechick
Aug 30 2008, 08:28 AM
Check!

For those of you who were not able to see Obama's great speech at the Democratic National Convention, here it is off Obama's youtube page:

Obama's acceptance speech



This does my heart good, shows that Fox can't always be THAT bad!

Chris Wallace tires of 2 hours of Obama bashing
You can also download speeches on itunes for free
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beatlechick
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tonyhemp
Aug 30 2008, 07:12 PM
beatlechick
Aug 30 2008, 08:28 AM
Check!

For those of you who were not able to see Obama's great speech at the Democratic National Convention, here it is off Obama's youtube page:

Obama's acceptance speech



This does my heart good, shows that Fox can't always be THAT bad!

Chris Wallace tires of 2 hours of Obama bashing
You can also download speeches on itunes for free
You can off youtube too if you have realplayer.
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BlueMolly2009
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There is a chance they might postpone the Republican convention due to Hurricane Gustav.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/30/as-gustav-moves-in-gop-convention-planners-on-alert/
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Mindy
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beatlechick
Aug 30 2008, 06:23 AM


Why would Hillary supporters jump to McCain's side because he chose a woman who is totally opposite of what Hillary stood for? That would be a slap in Hillary's face.
Yes it would totally be a slap in her face. I don't think people will switch parties just because McCain chose a woman.

After 8 years of a Republican in the White House, it's time for a change. I don't know much about Sarah Palin, but I do know she's pro-life. I'm pro choice. I think women have the right to choose what to do with this bodies, and I think abortion is something that most women do not take lightly. I think it's difficult, heart-wrenching, and not the easy way out. Anyway, I won't get into that too much since it's a controversial subject.
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beatlechick
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It appears later today that we may not have the Republican Convention due to Gustav.

Gustav prompts 'substantial' changes to the RNC

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Gustav prompts 'substantial' changes to RNC agenda
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NEW: Bush likely to address convention, if there is one, via satellite, sources say

Sen. John McCain suggests hurricane may affect the Republican convention

GOP source says convention may turn into a massive telethon

Gulf state governors already have canceled trips to convention

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney will not attend the GOP convention in St. Paul, Minnesota, because of Hurricane Gustav, White House press secretary Dana Perino said Sunday.

In addition, "substantial" changes to the Republican National Convention program will be announced Sunday because of the storm, two Republican officials said.

One option is delaying the planned Monday opening of the convention, both sources said, though one of the officials said "that has not been decided. We need a few more hours to look at all of the contingencies. But there will be some substantial adjustments."

Instead of attending, Bush is likely to address the convention's Monday session, if there is one, via satellite, other officials said. First lady Laura Bush is scheduled to attend.

The final decisions will be made after Rick Davis, a top campaign aide to Sen. John McCain, meets Sunday with convention planners in St. Paul.

Shaping those decisions will be briefings that McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, has received in the past 24 hours from Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, Federal Emergency Management Agency Director David Paulison and several Gulf Coast governors.

"It's a dire outlook, and we need to make some changes," one McCain campaign official said. "But this has never happened before to anyone's convention, so we need some time to touch all the bases."

A senior McCain source said Saturday that officials were considering turning the convention into a massive telethon to raise money for the Red Cross and other agencies to help with hurricane aid.

"He wants to do something service oriented if and when the storm hits and it's as bad as it's expected to be now," the McCain source said.

They are also hoping to get McCain himself to a storm-affected area as soon as possible.

McCain had suggested to a Fox News interviewer that the convention could be suspended if it seemed that a festive gathering was inappropriate in light of the destruction the storm may bring. Watch as the Gulf Coast prepares for Gustav »

Republican Govs. Bobby Jindal of Louisiana, Charlie Crist of Florida, Haley Barbour of Mississippi and Rick Perry of Texas -- whose states lie in the path of the Category 3 Gustav -- will skip the GOP convention because of the storm.

The storm has forced last-minute changes in the convention's announced schedule: If the convention -- originally scheduled to start Monday -- commences by Tuesday, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney's speech will probably move to that night from Wednesday.

Other changes were being contemplated Saturday afternoon.

The hardest decisions, like whether to cancel a day or two of the four-day gathering or to condense days, will be made at the last second, GOP officials said, but the logistics are being discussed.

Also on Saturday, Bush declared a state of emergency in Mississippi, following similar declarations in Louisiana and Texas.

The president ordered federal aid to supplement state and local efforts in the areas in the forecast path of Hurricane Gustav. Bush and his administration were heavily criticized in 2005 for not moving fast enough to send federal help to the Gulf Coast when Hurricane Katrina hit.

CNN's Dana Bash, Ed Hornick, John King and Rebecca Sinderbrand contributed to this report.


I would hope that they make changes for this storm. A lot of changes. To bad the current administration couldn't take Katrina as seriously even though it was widely reported a couple of days ahead that the storm was a category 5 hurricane and on a direct course to hit New Orleans. The warnings were there for that storm 2-3 days ahead of landfall yet the President decided it was more important to go from his ranch in Crawford to California for some appearances for two days than to deal with the storm's potential. Evacuations were in order ahead of time, too but many residents were ill-equipped to leave.

Current video on evacuations

If you live along the Gulf Coast and have been told to evacuate, don't hesitate! Leave. Your house and belongings aren't that important if you aren't there. Your life is more important than some material things. You and your family. Get out! Protect what is most important to you!

Good luck! May Gustav fall apart before landfall, I know that won't happen. Be safe!
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BlueMolly2009
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I think both the Democrats and Republicans learned from the Katrina. We can't just blame the Feds, the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of LA at the time didn't do what they should have. Blame would have to go all around, not just Republicans.
I do hope they do change or even postpone the RNC. I mean they could wait until next week or the week after (unless TS Hanna going to be a threat). Gustav sounds like it's going to be really bad.
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They may as well postpone the Republican National Convention until after Nov. 4 anyway... :P
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beatlechick
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Yes Molly, blame should've gone all around however the President and his cronies should've taken a category 5 storm more seriously instead of going from his ranch in Crawford, TX to raise money for the Republican party. It was widely announced on tv and radio that Katrina was a category 5 storm just waiting to hit land. Because of his delay, the federal gov't delayed on their end.

Look at it this way. If it appears that you are about to be creamed by a speeding truck that is about to run a redlight, wouldn't you want some help before calling out for it or should you wait while you are lying there bleeding to death before help decides it should arrive?

This is not, nor has it ever been, a Democrat/Republican issue. It was an issue with the local and federal government's response.
Edited by beatlechick, Aug 31 2008, 11:35 PM.
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maccascruff
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From the Daily News-Miner in Fairbanks:

Sen. John McCain's selection of Gov. Sarah Palin as his vice presidential running mate was a stunning decision that should make Alaskans proud, even while we wonder about the actual merits of the choice.... Alaskans and Americans must ask, though, whether she should become vice president and, more importantly, be placed first in line to become president.

In fact, as the governor herself acknowledged in her acceptance speech, she never set out to be involved in public affairs. She has never publicly demonstrated the kind of interest, much less expertise, in federal issues and foreign affairs that should mark a candidate for the second-highest office in the land. Republicans rightfully have criticized the Democratic nominee, Sen. Barack Obama, for his lack of experience, but Palin is a neophyte in comparison; how will Republicans reconcile the criticism of Obama with the obligatory cheering for Palin?

Most people would acknowledge that, regardless of her charm and good intentions, Palin is not ready for the top job. McCain seems to have put his political interests ahead of the nation's when he created the possibility that she might fill it.

And from the Anchorage Daily News:

It's stunning that someone with so little national and international experience might be heartbeat away from the presidency.

Gov. Palin is a classic Alaska story. She is an example of the opportunity our state offers to those with talent, initiative and determination...

McCain picked Palin despite a recent blemish on her ethically pure resume. While she was governor, members of her family and staff tried to get her ex-brother-in-law fired from the Alaska State Troopers. Her public safety commissioner would not do so; she forced him out, supposedly for other reasons. While she runs for vice-president, the Legislature has an investigator on the case.

For all those advantages, Palin joins the ticket with one huge weakness: She's a total beginner on national and international issues.

Gov. Palin will have to spend the next two months convincing Americans that she's ready to be a heartbeat away from the presidency....
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maccascruff
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LapisLee
Aug 31 2008, 09:15 PM
They may as well postpone the Republican National Convention until after Nov. 4 anyway... :P
That is oh so true.

Read this for a laugh on Sarah Palin.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/opinion/31dowd.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
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Hilarious in a I-Really-Hope-That-Never-Happens kind of way... :no:
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Bill
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BlueMolly2008
Aug 31 2008, 06:49 PM
I think both the Democrats and Republicans learned from the Katrina. We can't just blame the Feds, the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of LA at the time didn't do what they should have. Blame would have to go all around, not just Republicans.
I do hope they do change or even postpone the RNC. I mean they could wait until next week or the week after (unless TS Hanna going to be a threat). Gustav sounds like it's going to be really bad.
There is certainly enough blame to go around, but the fact that there were gross failures at a local and state level does not mitigate the gross failure at the federal level.

There's the question of rank as well. Nagin and Blanco have nothing to be proud of but one is a parish mayor (remember that Nagin is only the mayor of Orleans parish and not of greater New Orleans) and the other was a governor of a state where political corruption is a tourist attraction. You would think that when the grownups step in, they would know what they were doing. They didn't, and three years ago, a wide selection of the US electorate finally woke up to that fact.

So to rationalise the Feds' incompetence by pointing to the similar incompetence of the state and local authorities is kind of like justifying a college senior's failure because the same task was also botched by a junior and by a high school kid. There's really no comparison.

What worries me the most is that the levees are no better than they were in 2005.
http://www.levees.org/factsheet
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Bill
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maccascruff
Sep 1 2008, 12:31 AM
Haha!

Here's something that I'm surprised no-one has mentioned:

While the Obama campaign is unfolding like a latter season of The West Wing, it seems the McCain campaign is trying to be Commander in Chief.

What they should remember is that one of these shows admirably ran its course despite setbacks, and the other was cancelled because it sucked.
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Bill
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It would be a mistake to think that Gustav is only a political blow to the Republicans.

It also means that Bush and Cheney have an excuse for skipping the convention without admitting that their appearances would have done more harm than good because everyone hates them.
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maccascruff
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Two more links on the total inadequacy of Palin as a vice president

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/cindy-mccain-on-abc-today_b_122759.html#postComment

Seems her foreign experience is that Alaska is close to Russia.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/31/mccain-camp-didnt-search_n_122823.html

This show's McCain did not properly vet Palin
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maccascruff
Sing the Changes
Why is McCain in the gulf during the Gustav? It is taking away from the police, etc. that the local municipalities have. He seems to think he is already in office and he sure isn't.

Yes, Bill, Gustav gave Bush/Cheney a very convenient excuse not to show up at the now diminished RNC.

Obama has stated that he is staying away from the Gulf because of the local resources that it takes when a presidential candidate is in town.
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beatlechick
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Heard something verrrrry interesting about Sarah Palin's 17 yr old daughter. Seems people on the internet have started up a rumor that Sarah's infant son is actually the infant son of her daughter. Apparently Sarah felt the need to clear that up by stating that her 17 yr old daughter is 5 months pregnant and is going to marry the father.

Teen daughter of GOP VP pick
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FamousGroupie
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The woman is a hunter. There's a picture somewhere of her with a caribou she's just shot. Even if I was American and could vote for McCain/Palin, I still wouldn't. :nono:
I don't believe in Bondi. I don't believe in rugby league. I believe in Yoko, John Lennon, the Lost Weekend and me.
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Families should be off limits. However they won't be.

Glad to see the baby isn't going to pay for her actions. Though mom should have taught birth control.
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FamousGroupie
Sep 1 2008, 11:15 PM
The woman is a hunter. There's a picture somewhere of her with a caribou she's just shot. Even if I was American and could vote for McCain/Palin, I still wouldn't. :nono:
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FamousGroupie
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:-/ I don't know if that was supposed to be a dig at me or not.....
I don't believe in Bondi. I don't believe in rugby league. I believe in Yoko, John Lennon, the Lost Weekend and me.
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FamousGroupie
Sep 2 2008, 12:07 AM
:-/ I don't know if that was supposed to be a dig at me or not.....
Nope. Just providing the pic you asked for along with a few others. ;)
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maccascruff
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FamousGroupie
Sep 1 2008, 11:15 PM
The woman is a hunter. There's a picture somewhere of her with a caribou she's just shot. Even if I was American and could vote for McCain/Palin, I still wouldn't. :nono:
That is enough for me, too, Clare. I wasn't voting that way, but this would have done it.

Obama has said that families are off limits even though the family values argument is totally valid here.
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beatlechick
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maccascruff
Sep 2 2008, 12:24 AM
FamousGroupie
Sep 1 2008, 11:15 PM
The woman is a hunter. There's a picture somewhere of her with a caribou she's just shot. Even if I was American and could vote for McCain/Palin, I still wouldn't. :nono:
That is enough for me, too, Clare. I wasn't voting that way, but this would have done it.

Obama has said that families are off limits even though the family values argument is totally valid here.
And that's why I posted it.

I do have to say that the way I have seen her daughter handle the baby, she looks pretty natural. I hope her marriage works out.
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maccascruff
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It appears that Palin herself was pregnant after her elopement to her husband. Like mother, like daughter.
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FamousGroupie
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LapisLee, thankyou, but with all due respect, I wish you hadn't. :no:
I don't believe in Bondi. I don't believe in rugby league. I believe in Yoko, John Lennon, the Lost Weekend and me.
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BlueMolly2009
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Can we NOT pick on Sarah Palin's daughter? Why can't we listen to Obama and leave the kids out of it? And btw, Sarah's daughter didn't have Sarah's baby. Tug was born in April and Sarah's daughter is a few months along.
People who hate McCain will do anything to trash him and his running mate, even start freaking rumors about them.
I'm sounding like a McCain supporter, which I'm NOT, but I think we should leave the kids out of it. What gives people the right to trash them? They didn't choose to be pushed into the spotlight.
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Bill
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As if the poor kid wasn't born with enough challenges, they had to go and name him Tug?
He's going to have a great time at school, isn't he?
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beatlechick
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BlueMolly2008
Sep 2 2008, 01:28 AM
Can we NOT pick on Sarah Palin's daughter? Why can't we listen to Obama and leave the kids out of it? And btw, Sarah's daughter didn't have Sarah's baby. Tug was born in April and Sarah's daughter is a few months along.
People who hate McCain will do anything to trash him and his running mate, even start freaking rumors about them.
I'm sounding like a McCain supporter, which I'm NOT, but I think we should leave the kids out of it. What gives people the right to trash them? They didn't choose to be pushed into the spotlight.
Don't take it so personally. This is something that Palin, herself, commented on. Her daughter is pregnant. No big deal to me but to a lot of people who have pregnant teen daughters and get criticisized for not being a good parent to their daughter in not teaching birth control it is a big deal.
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Bill
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In fairness to Sarah Palin, nobody knows that she didn't teach birth control. There's a difference between teaching and learning. Also, we don't know that her daughter didn't use it. Things can malfunction.
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Bill
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Bill
Sep 1 2008, 03:06 AM
It would be a mistake to think that Gustav is only a political blow to the Republicans.

It also means that Bush and Cheney have an excuse for skipping the convention without admitting that their appearances would have done more harm than good because everyone hates them.
What'd I tell ya?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/51419.html

Absence of Bush and Cheney cheers Republican delegates

By Steven Thomma | McClatchy Newspapers

ST. PAUL, Minn. — Although they were reluctant to say it out loud, many Republicans were relieved Monday that President Bush didn't attend the Republican National Convention.

They didn't like to talk about it on the record, in part because they didn't want to admit an unintended political benefit in Hurricane Gustav, which led both Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney to cancel their scheduled speeches Monday to the convention.

They also didn't want to admit publicly that a president from their own party is a drag on their prospects.

Yet inside and outside the convention hall, they mostly agreed that Bush is a political problem for Republican presidential candidate John McCain, and that it was better that TV screens Monday evening didn't feature delegates cheering him on.

"It is a good thing," said Mitch Harper, a Republican delegate from Fort Wayne, Ind. "John McCain has got to demonstrate that he's his own brand, that he would go in a different direction.

"Among those swing voters who make a difference, the president doesn't help John McCain," he said.

"I don't know a single person who is upset about the fact that they won't be appearing," said one veteran Republican strategist at the convention, speaking on condition of anonymity to freely question the political value of Bush and Cheney.

"The only bit of good news at all brought by Gustav is that it caused the cancellation of both Bush and Cheney speeches. Every Republican was rather dreading these speeches to begin with."

McCain did embrace Bush, especially during the Republican primaries when he needed support from the party's conservative base. Among his biggest shifts was urging that the Bush tax cuts — he had opposed them in 2001 and 2003 — be made permanent.

Now, however, he needs to distance himself from a president with dismal approval among independent voters McCain will need to defeat Democrat Barack Obama.

Even when Bush and Cheney were supposed to speak at the convention, McCain's camp had sought to minimize the attention paid to them by scheduling both on the same day and in the same news cycle. "It's no coincidence," the strategist said.

Canceling them both was "a great thing" for the Republicans, said independent political analyst Stu Rothenberg.

After casting himself as an independent-minded politician willing to buck his own party, and president, Rothenberg said of McCain, "he let his maverick image atrophy" when he needed to assure the conservative base that he wasn't too maverick.

Now, he needs that image back. And a Bush speech wouldn't have helped.

"The circumstances that led to the cancellation are obviously unfortunate, but many Republicans are very happy there won't be even one night devoted to Bush and Cheney," Rothenberg said.

"It's nice to have an honest excuse to not have George W. Bush speak."
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BlueMolly2009
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Sep 2 2008, 01:33 AM
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Sep 2 2008, 01:28 AM
Can we NOT pick on Sarah Palin's daughter? Why can't we listen to Obama and leave the kids out of it? And btw, Sarah's daughter didn't have Sarah's baby. Tug was born in April and Sarah's daughter is a few months along.
People who hate McCain will do anything to trash him and his running mate, even start freaking rumors about them.
I'm sounding like a McCain supporter, which I'm NOT, but I think we should leave the kids out of it. What gives people the right to trash them? They didn't choose to be pushed into the spotlight.
Don't take it so personally. This is something that Palin, herself, commented on. Her daughter is pregnant. No big deal to me but to a lot of people who have pregnant teen daughters and get criticisized for not being a good parent to their daughter in not teaching birth control it is a big deal.
I did get a bit emotional. :lol: :blush:

I just don't like it when people pick on the innocent kids, on both sides of the Political spectrum.

Oh and Bill, I think Tug is named after baseball player, Tug McGraw (country singer Tim McGraw's father.) The name is not "normal" but I kind of like it. Oh no, I'm showing my country roots now. :giggle:
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Sep 2 2008, 12:44 AM
LapisLee, thankyou, but with all due respect, I wish you hadn't. :no:
Well, I could have posted the other 100 pictures of her from her last 21 months as Governor of Alaska (a state whose population is roughly the same as San Antonio, TX), but they all look like an older version of Tina Fey.
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Sep 2 2008, 01:32 AM
As if the poor kid wasn't born with enough challenges, they had to go and name him Tug?
He's going to have a great time at school, isn't he?
Actually I have no idea where the name Tug came from, have not even heard it mentioned. The baby's real name is Trig Paxson Van Palin.
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I was going to say, the baby's name is actually Trig, which really isn't that much better than Tug.
Edited by FamousGroupie, Sep 2 2008, 06:17 AM.
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No it isn't but seeing how she likes to shoot things, maybe it is totally appropriate!
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:blink: I never thought of that. Oh dear.
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The full name is strange. I wonder how many times the Van Palin part will be mixed with Van Halen?
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:lol: And what the hell is Paxson?

Oh well, we really shouldn't give the poor kid a hard time. His mother will do that for him.
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Is Trig the premie with down syndrome?
Edited by fab4fan, Sep 2 2008, 12:22 PM.
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maccascruff
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Yes, Trig is the child with Down Syndrome.

Obama himself has asked his supporters not to make an issue of the Palin family, especially the children, so I won't.

However, there's enough other stuff about Palin to make her fair game that we don't need to go there. Take creationism for example.
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You know we judge people how they name their children, but I could say something about Beckett, Stella's son, but I won't. Tug Paxton is actually a good name, IMHO. I guess I'm weird. :lol:
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Tug Paxton may be a good name for someone's kid. Sarah's son's name is Trig Paxson Van Palin.
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What a tangled web we weave.....

Palin to face investigators in ethics investigation

Palin faces questions this month in ethics probe, says lawmaker

Palin's attorney says Alaska legislature does not have "primary jurisdiction" in the matter

Dem. chairman of Alaska Senate Judiciary Committee threatens subpoenas

Probe asks whether Palin used her power to get her former brother-in-law fired

Palin known for backing tough ethical standards

(CNN) -- As she takes part in the Republican National Convention with Sen. John McCain, the abuse of power probe facing Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin at home is charging ahead -- and the governor is expected to be questioned later this month, according to the lawmaker overseeing the investigation.

Palin's attorney is locked in a legal battle with the Alaska legislature, insisting it does not have "primary jurisdiction" in the matter. The Democratic chairman of the Alaska Senate Judiciary Committee, meanwhile, has threatened subpoenas if Palin doesn't continue to cooperate in organizing witness interviews.

Letters between the two sides show a legal back-and-forth over several sticking points, with the committee chair saying Palin's newfound status as McCain's running mate "does not change the steps" the committee is taking, and that he requests a "September date for the governor's deposition."

The probe boils down to whether Palin used her power to have a state commissioner fired for refusing to dismiss her former brother-in-law from the state police. She has denied any wrongdoing.

Her sudden, unexpected entry into the presidential race has taken the web of characters involved in the dispute and thrust them into the national spotlight.

The case centers on Walt Monegan, the public safety commissioner who was let go in July. After his dismissal, he said he had felt pressured by the governor's office to fire state trooper Mike Wooten, who had been in a messy divorce and child custody battle with Palin's sister.

Monegan said members of the governor's staff and her husband, Todd Palin, had called and questioned him about Wooten.

At a news conference last month, Palin acknowledged that her administration had made more than 20 calls to the Department of Public Safety regarding Wooten. However, she said Wooten had nothing to do with Monegan's firing, and that she had simply wanted new leadership to take the Department of Public Safety in "a new direction." The post of commissioner is a gubernatorial appointment.

"The individual inquiries taken by themselves are one thing. Many of these inquiries were completely appropriate; however, the serial nature of the contacts understandably could be perceived as some kind of pressure, presumably at my direction," she said.

Palin revealed a recording of one phone call made by her boards and commissions director, Frank Bailey, to a trooper lieutenant. In the call, Bailey complained there had been "absolutely no action for a year on this issue" and said that Palin and her husband were frustrated that Wooten was still a state trooper.

"I am truly disappointed and disturbed to learn that a member of this administration contacted the Department of Public Safety regarding Trooper Wooten," Palin said in a statement last month. "At no time did I authorize any member of my staff to do so." Palin placed Bailey on paid leave until the investigation is over.

The state Legislative Council -- a bipartisan group of lawmakers -- voted in July to spend $100,000 on an investigation, and hired Stephen Branchflower, who spent 28 years as a state prosecutor in Anchorage, as special counsel to lead it. The council chose Sen. Hollis French, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, to manage the investigation.

On Friday, Palin's attorney, Thomas Van Flein, sent a letter via e-mail to Branchflower. "We fully welcome a fair inquiry into these allegations, and believe that the Personnel Board is statutorily mandated to oversee these proceedings," he said, adding that under state law, the Personnel Board has "primary jurisdiction."

The Personnel Board is "an independent agency composed of members appointed by the governor," according to its Web site. Its duties include hearing ethics complaints against Executive Branch employees.

Palin's attorney also wrote that he understood there was an "informal agreement to share information the parties obtain through their own inquiries." He requested copies of all witness statements, documentary evidence, a witness list, and the "complaint or other charging document."

And he requested a meeting with the investigator, Branchflower, to schedule depositions of witnesses.

Van Flein vowed full cooperation and said he would reciprocate in providing information.

Branchflower did not respond to the letter. Instead, French wrote a response Monday, saying the Personnel Board "would not have jurisdiction unless someone filed a complaint."

"I hope you are not suggesting that the legislature does not have the authority to investigate possible violations of law by members of the Executive Branch," he added.iReport.com: What do you think of McCain's VP pick?

French asked whether Palin was aware that her attorney seemed to be "challenging" the legislature's jurisdiction. "Such a position is at odds with our state's constitution, and with your client's public statements."

As for the copies of witness statements, French wrote that he had instructed Branchflower not to comply.

"I think you would agree that it would be highly unusual for an investigator to share information with one of the targets of the investigation. I am unaware of any precedent for such an arrangement."

He also said he told the investigator, Branchflower, to stick to his established schedule for interviewing witnesses -- and that any delays "would cause me to convene a meeting of the Judiciary Committee and ask that subpoenas be considered."

While Palin's "new political role" as Sen. John McCain's running mate "will make it more challenging for her to make time for this investigation," French wrote, her promises to cooperate and her vows that the campaign trail will not interfere with state business "should result in a concrete willingness to schedule and conclude her deposition."

The two letters were first published by the Anchorage Daily News. Van Flein's office then provided copies to CNN.
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Just answer the damn question!!

Campbell Brown asking McCain spokesperson about Palin
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Sep 2 2008, 10:42 PM
Tug Paxton may be a good name for someone's kid. Sarah's son's name is Trig Paxson Van Palin.
Oops :blush:
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Just watching a bit of the RNC and what I just saw was sooooo inconsiderate! They just announced and brought up the Captain of the Minneapolis Fire Dept. As she got to the podium and was about to speak, Dumbya's parents came out to the floor to go to their seats totally disrupting the beginning of her speech!
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maccascruff
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There was a Hillary supporter interviewed on CNN this morning. She is switching to McCain. When the interviewer asked her what Palin agrees with that Hillary stood for, she never answered that question. She just said that the Democratic Party was sexist because 1) it didn't nominate Hillary and 2) Obama didn't select her as his VP running mate. She also said the press was sexist.

The interviewer then said so you aren't actually voting for McCain, you are voting against Obama. This woman said not so much against Obama as against the Democratic Party.

I guess issues for the good of the country don't matter to this type of Hillary supporter. Hopefully, she will come to her senses by the time she casts her ballot. :frustrated:
Edited by maccascruff, Sep 3 2008, 02:10 AM.
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Bill
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Don't worry. If she's that stupid, she'll have a hard time finding a polling place anyway.
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:clap: :clap:

I needed that, Bill. Thank you.
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Obama supporters have always said the issues should be first and foremost. When did this change? Are you voting for Obama because of what he named his children or when his wife got pregnant? Obama's been very candid about the indiscretions of his past. I'd think his supporters would be able to respect the same of his opponents.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=183505
Sure, the Obama bio 12 minutes in is funny, but is that Linda?
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Rev. Dave, that is sooo funny. And yes, that is Linda!

The RNC, where should I start? There was one line that made me choke and that was when Laura Bush stated that her husband has kept America safe! OMIGAWD does she actually live in the States?

I missed Thompson's speech and did hear it was a pretty good speech.

With all the speeches that I heard, I have yet to hear what Sarah Palin has done.

Okay, now for Joe Lieberman's speech. How many times did he align himself with being a Democrat only to finally state, thank God, that he is not a Democrat but is an Independent. He acted as if the Democrats still listen to him. For him to come out and completely endorse Sarah Palin when his views are totally opposite what hers are just proves to me he knows little of what he speaks. Unbelievable, totally unbelievable.

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One more thing, the video that I posted where I state just answer the questions, McCain saw it (or heard about it) and pulled his interview with Larry King because of it. Nice move, McCain! All the guy had to do was answer the damn questions!
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Bill
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Which Joe Lieberman?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJTJbqKuDDM
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Sep 3 2008, 04:55 AM
I think this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_Xvm6Hs5VI&feature=related
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Wow, Keith Olberman goes after Lieberman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er5YyouNHj0&feature=related
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maccascruff
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My nephew emailed me last night and said I was on the Daily Show.

Rev. Dave, I am following Obama's lead and not discussing Palin's daughter.

Michael Moore's latest missive:

(Last night, during his primetime speech from the podium at the Republican National Convention, Senator Joe Lieberman made the following statement: "... if John McCain is just another partisan Republican, then I'm Michael Moore's favorite Democrat. And I'm not. And I think you know that I'm not.")

Wednesday, September 3rd, 2008

Dear Joe:

John McCain IS just another partisan Republican -- so that must mean you ARE my favorite Democrat!

But how can you be my favorite Democrat when you are no longer a Democrat? This is very confusing. I was in the middle of taking out the garbage and, all of a sudden, there you were, trash-talking me in front of thousands of cheering (mostly) white people on TV.

What is it with you and your Republican friends always bringing me up? Can't you stop thinking about me? It's starting to sound like a fetish! Stop it! Four years ago at the last Republican Convention, John McCain, in his convention speech, also trashed me, calling me a "disingenuous filmmaker" because I called all of you out in "Fahrenheit 9/11." The crowd at Madison Square Garden went berserk. McCain didn't know I was sitting above him in the press box, and the crowd wouldn't stop screaming at me, so I flashed them the "Big L" loser sign and, well, nine of New York's finest had to help me get out of there alive.

With all the problems facing the world, why is valuable time being wasted reviewing a movie and attacking a filmmaker? And now you, Joe, tonight. Do you think you're energizing the "base" by attacking me? Better take a look at the scoreboard. While your side has spent years trying to make me the boogeyman, let's see how it's worked:

** 2006 Congressional elections: Republicans lose 30 seats in the House and 6 seats in the Senate;

** States That Have Lost a Republican Governor (and elected a Democrat) since 2002: Kansas, Montana, Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Arkansas, Kentucky, Oklahoma and Tennessee -- EACH ONE OF THEM A RED STATE!;

** Latest Gallup Poll: Obama hit 50% yesterday for the first time for either candidate, 8 points ahead of McCain!

Do you see the trend?

Putting me in your convention speeches, attacking me nonstop on talk radio and Fox News -- and thinking that this helps you -- shows just how out of touch you all are.

Two-thirds of the country agree with my position on the war, two-thirds of the country agree with my position on a single-payer universal health care system, two-thirds believe in some form of gun control -- name the documentary, pick the issue, and the American public agrees with Michael Moore. So get over me, will ya? You're only hurting yourself. And I've got to finish taking out the garbage.

"... if John McCain is just another partisan Republican, then I'm Michael Moore's favorite Democrat. And I'm not. And I think you know that I'm not." Now click your heels together and say, "There's no place like home on the Republican minority side of the aisle."
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Bill
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I know I'm a fine one to talk, but would somebody please buy Chris Matthews a comb?
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I'm sure he has a comb, he's in need of some mousse and/or hairspray for those outdoor sets. Man up! :rofl:
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OH MY!?! :o

GOP Analysts caught on open mic trashing McCain's Sarah Palin pick
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Bill
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMkchLnAdEM

Freudian slip? Wishful thinking? Can't remember? Never heard of her?
You decide! B)
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I guess that Sarah has Puhlenty of issues to deal with like should Alaska secede from the US.
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I was listening to WBUR from Boston (thank you iTunes :P ) and they were talking about an interview with a McCain supporter that was on another NPR show last night called, "On Point." One of the supporters was saying that all Democrats are for pro-choice and they would abort their pregnancies if they found out their child was disabled. This got a lot of angry calls from both sides (Republican and Democrat) saying that not all Democrats are pro choice and not all Republicans are pro life. I LOVE it when I hear things like this. It shows how stupid people can be.
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I'm not going to say anything about how I felt about Sarah Palin's speech because I know I'd get bashed around and asked why I feel like I do. :/
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You worry too much Molly. If you liked the speech, say so, whether or not you're a McCain supporter. It doesn't matter what other people think, if you liked it, than that's OK. Stand up for your beliefs!
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Bill
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Would it help you to know that her speech was written before she had even been chosen?

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2008/09/putting_words_in_palins_mouth.html

Quote:
 
Putting Words in Palin's Mouth

There was a flutter of attention when McCain campaign manager Rick Davis told a group of Post reporters and editors yesterday that his team was having to rework the vice presidential acceptance speech because the original draft, prepared before Gov. Sarah Palin was chosen, was too "masculine." While we all wondered to ourselves what might make a speech masculine or feminine, no one batted an eye at the underlying revelation: that the campaign was writing the nominee's speech before knowing who the nominee would be.

Never mind the prehistoric days when a politician might be expected to write his or her own words; speechwriters have been around since long before television. But traditionally their job was to channel their bosses' thoughts and ideas into poetry, or at least comprehensible English. Nowadays, apparently it's naive to expect a speech even to reveal something of the essential views or character of the speaker. Instead, campaigns -- not just the McCain campaign -- draft their speeches with an eye to which demographic groups need to receive which messages, and then we in the media rate the speeches based on how well we think they hit those targets.

So when you watch Sarah Palin tonight, expect to learn something about how well she handles a Teleprompter. Expect to learn something about the McCain campaign's assessment of its political standing with women, or working families, or social conservatives. Whether you're learning what Sarah Palin really thinks or feels is anybody's guess.

By Fred Hiatt | September 3, 2008; 12:43 PM ET
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Well, I can't say that's entirely surprising.

Incidentally, here's that massive tax burden Ms. Palin was talking about, courtesy the Washington Post:

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~LovelyRita~

Interesting table there. Palin used the example of people who have small business not having the money to run them with Obama's tax increases. However, I highly doubt too many small business owners have over a $603,000 income. There is a lot to be said about lower taxes leading to more personal freedom with your own money and it's ability to allow for increased investment, but I think the people at the top of Obama's tax bracket can still afford to invest. The large cuts at the bottom are equally encouraging and can only help those hanging on to the lower brackets pull themselves up a little.
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~LovelyRita~

On a side note, what did those of you who watched it think about Palin's speech? I actually thought it was pretty good; it had more substance than most of the speeches I've watched from both conventions. I didn't agree with most of what she said, but she said it with conviction and that garnered my respect if not my vote.
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Trickle-down economics at it's most short-sighted.

I'd would like for someone to explain how yo can keep spending more by taking in less. And yes, I know that both Kennedy and Reagan cut taxes and increased income at the same time but that does NOT mean that you're going to make more money every time you reduce the profit margin. If that were the case, the biggest business in town would be the one that sells home theatre systems for $10. Let's know if you find any.

I propose a trickle-UP economy. That's not a contradiction. It's called a capillary action. If you put one end of a piece of string in a glass of water, eventually the dry end will become wet too.

How can this become an economic system?
Simple!
By giving the greatest breaks to the poorest, you increase their spending power. As their spending power increases, that benefits those on the next rung up the ladder. As their income increases, so too with that of those above them, and so on. Eventually, even the ultra-rich will benefit from such a system.

If anyone can point out some flaws in that theory, then I'm all ears. I'm no economist. But then, neither is John McCain.

One thing is for sure though - giving the top end back enough money for a third Mercedes isn't going to stop any mortgage foreclosures. Even I know that.
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Sep 4 2008, 04:06 AM
You worry too much Molly. If you liked the speech, say so, whether or not you're a McCain supporter. It doesn't matter what other people think, if you liked it, than that's OK. Stand up for your beliefs!
Absolutely! Hey I used to get bashed regularly on pm.com and from a few know-it-all people, and so was Bill. Yet we persevered because, from my perspective, truly believed in what I was talking about.

If you liked her speech, that's fine it was a good strong speech.

I had a couple of problems with her speech. Did she actually listen to any of Obama's speeches where he talked about using nuclear power, clean coal, solar/wind power and not just about him reluctantly stating he would use offshore drilling? She talked as if this was a Republican idea. She also jumped on his case for talking about her family. I can't say just how wrong that is. He is the one to state that family was not an option to talk about. He has never once stated ANYTHING about her family, NOT ONCE! That was the media's fault.

She talked a big deal about what she has done in Alaska, which is good for her, but making fun of Obama's organizing career in Chicago. It was a career that helped the poor keep their homes and their jobs, a fete that can not be discounted in any way, shape, or form.

The one thing she totally avoided was mentioning abortion/pro-choice issue. Makes me wonder why.

I want to hear issues and not what it was like to govern people in Alaska who has less a population than the City of Los Angeles. If being the governor is what it takes to be a VP than Ahhnie could be a VP, too, if he were an American. I'm pretty sure he would do a crappy job at it but at least he isn't afraid to say global warming and NO offshore drilling. He hasn't been afraid to stand up to the Republican party lines! But a VP, wouldn't want to subject the US to him. Maria, maybe, but not Ahhnie!!
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Grace, I thought she gave a good strong speech but for me there were a lot of holes in it that I stated a couple of posts above. Hearing some synopsis of her speech, like the part about the jet not needed and putting it on ebay and all I can say is that a Governor California had several years ago (many called him Gov. Moonbeam), Gov. Jerry Brown, refused to use the Governor's mansion to live in. Instead he RENTED his own apartment. He said he didn't need to live in a great big mansion.

Bill, the point about the writing of her speech was brought up on CNN by a couple of people. It made me wonder, however, who has written Obama's speech or Biden's. Anderson Cooper brought up why are we talking about who wrote her speech when we haven't questioned who has written any other speeches. Frankly I think that was a great comment to make. She was given a speech to deliver and she did. Like Grace, I didn't agree with most of what was said (well......okay, just about all that was said!), but she delivered a strong speech.

Now if only Rudy Giuliani would just shut the f*ck up! What a prick! All he did was insult with very little substance.
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Bill,
Just one correction on your trickle-up theory, at least as it applies to the US. You can't give a federal tax "break" to people who do not pay taxes. I believe that currently in the US the lower 38% do not pay federal taxes and Obama's plan raises that to 47%. And it does call for some of that money to be "credited" (redistributed) to those individuals.

What are your feelings about that?
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When you have a job, federal taxes get taken out of your paycheck. I fall pretty damn close, if not there, to the 38%. I make less than $30,000.00 a year, and am the primary breadwinner in my household, but federal and state taxes get taken out. It's called withholding.
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wackadoo
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I am not ashamed to say it was a great speech and I am quite impressed by her. I am excited with the idea of Palin on the ticket. She is a breath of fresh air. I would love to hear how the Republicans would have been criticized if a comment would have been made about Hilary not being capable of being the President of the United States because she has a family. That was ridiculous. She has been smeared unnecessarily and by the party who said they wouldn't stoop to smear tactics. Attacking her daughter's pregnancy was a new low. Anyone who is a parent knows that it is difficult to raise children and that they make plenty of mistakes and so do we!

Of course all of these speeches are written by speech writers...anyone knows that. But now we are going to criticize Palin for her speech being pre-written for her? Come up with something better than that next time.

Obama's biggest mistake in my opinion was not putting Hilary on his ticket and I think he is going to pay heavily for that.

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beatlechick
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MaryAnn, you can like the speech all you want, I have no problem with that, but I think you need to rethink who was attacking her for her family. It was not Obama and the Democrats! Obama has ordered and maintained all along his campaign that family is not to be touched! If you can find any proof that I am wrong, than certainly please bring it to the table. It has been the media and bloggers that have brought her family issues to the forefront. Not Obama or the Democratic party!

I am happy Obama did not put Hillary on his ticket. And I am an independent thinking woman!
Edited by beatlechick, Sep 4 2008, 05:50 AM.
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Here is another wonderful speech that Sarah Palin delivered. Click on the link and scroll down for a video of Sarah Palin addressing her Assembly Of God church.

Palin's Church May Have Shaped Controversial Worldview
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Bill
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wackadoo
Sep 4 2008, 05:36 AM


Of course all of these speeches are written by speech writers...anyone knows that. But now we are going to criticize Palin for her speech being pre-written for her? Come up with something better than that next time.
It's not the the speech was written for HER. It's that the speech was already written before they even knew who would be delivering it. And when they realised who it would be actually delivering the speech, they had to change it to drop in all the so-called "feminist" tags.

The the commentary I posted noted, everyone knows politicians have speechwriters, but usually they at least know who they're writing for - not writing some generic speech for someone whose name they don't even know.

That my friend, if the definition of a puppet!
Put a puppet on it.
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Bill
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fab4fan
Sep 4 2008, 04:59 AM
Bill,
Just one correction on your trickle-up theory, at least as it applies to the US. You can't give a federal tax "break" to people who do not pay taxes. I believe that currently in the US the lower 38% do not pay federal taxes and Obama's plan raises that to 47%. And it does call for some of that money to be "credited" (redistributed) to those individuals.

What are your feelings about that?
I feel it's an excellent start. :yes:

I should probably have used a better word than "breaks" as I didn't mean just tax breaks, I meant a hand up (not a hand out), as opposed to being told they deserve their station in life if they don't pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
Put a puppet on it.
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Bill
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beatlechick
Sep 4 2008, 04:37 AM
Hey I used to get bashed regularly on pm.com and from a few know-it-all people, and so was Bill. Yet we persevered because, from my perspective, truly believed in what I was talking about.
There's really nothing to it if you have the facts on your side.

I've never bashed anyone for their views. I've just pointed out the facts, and called attention to any inherent contradictions in their argument.

Not all opinions are equal. An opinion is only as good a the facts underpinning them. Most of them are nice people who just haven't thought things through properly. I wouldn't be doing them any favours by not saying so.

For instance, here's a fact:
Barack Obama has never been a member of a radical separatist party.
Why is this relevant?
Because Sarah Palin has.
For a long time, she was a member of the Alaskan Independence Party.
http://www.akip.org/introduction.html
She only left so that she could run for public office and even as a holder of public office, she has shown her support for the party encouraging them to keep up the good work.

Now here's where the contradictions and hypocrisy come in:
Where do Republicans get off calling Obama unpatriotic for not wearing a flag pin when they nominate a VP candidate to wanted her state to break with the US entirely?
How can they live with themselves bringing up Jeremiah Wright saying "God, damn America!" (which had nothing to do with Obama anyway) when their gal supported Joe Volger, not despite but because he said "I've got no use for America or her damned institutions,"?

So it's not bashing anyone to point these things out. As Edward de Bono said, argument is meant to reveal the truth, not create it.
Put a puppet on it.
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Bill
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beatlechick
Sep 4 2008, 05:45 AM
MaryAnn, you can like the speech all you want, I have no problem with that, but I think you need to rethink who was attacking her for her family. It was not Obama and the Democrats! Obama has ordered and maintained all along his campaign that family is not to be touched! If you can find any proof that I am wrong, than certainly please bring it to the table. It has been the media and bloggers that have brought her family issues to the forefront. Not Obama or the Democratic party!
This is exactly what I meant. No bashing, no put-downs, just a few facts to get in the way of a good story.

I watched about a quarter of the speech (if the total time is anything to go by) before deciding I'd wasted enough of my life on it.
To those who were impressed by it, I have just one question: why?

What policies did she lay out? What visions did she share? What's her plan to make America and he world a better place?
To me, it seemed full of the same old oblivious right wing rhetoric. It's always heart warming to hear a mother talk of how proud she is of her family, but that doesn't mean she's up to being a heartbeat away fro the presidency. She credited John McCain with standing up for the troops in a way that means they're close to victory in Iraq. They've been "close to victory" for five and a half years and in all that time, no-one has ever actually defined what victory is. She talked about how much she loves America. Yeah, right! She loves America so much that for years she wanted to break away from it as a member of the Alaskan successionist movement.
Oh, and apparently she's a woman. Glad she mentioned it. My thoughts about Hillary Clinton are well documented but to her credit, Clinton never played the "glass ceiling" card. Hillary's campaign was all about why she thought she was the right person for the job. She never claimed she deserved it just because she has a vagina.
[aside: many of her supporters may have, but the candidate herself didn't. See above]

Palin has some gall belittling Obama's public service. Her CV reads like a monopoly game.
You have won second prize in a beauty contest. Advance to regional sports news anchor.


(edited rather than posting a new reply):
Fact checking the Republicans' story on Palin.
http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_fact_check

For what it's worth, this was put out by the AP, which has recently been accusing of shilling for the Republicans.
Edited by Bill, Sep 4 2008, 11:34 AM.
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maccascruff
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I managed to watch a few minutes each of Guiliani, Huckabee and Romney before I couldn't stand it. Tried to listen to Palin but the lies she was telling--I couldn't watch them, especially after watching the lies by the other three.

I will not and cannot vote for McCain/Palin just because Palin is a woman. I do not agree with her stance on a single issue. Being a woman is beside the point. My decision is made on the issues and I disagree with her on every single one.

As far as I know, Obama's only public comment on the daughter's pregnancy was to say children are off limits. I haven't heard a word since.

People on my Colorado for Obama group are up in arms this morning over the pack of lies at the RNC last night.
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fab4fan
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beatlechick
Sep 4 2008, 05:17 AM
When you have a job, federal taxes get taken out of your paycheck. I fall pretty damn close, if not there, to the 38%. I make less than $30,000.00 a year, and am the primary breadwinner in my household, but federal and state taxes get taken out. It's called withholding.
Withholding is different than federal taxes and state taxes. Withholding is for social security and medicare. If I'm not mistaken when you file your 1040 you get all of the federal taxes refunded to you. Not sure about the state taxes because I don't know the tax laws of CA but in IN you would likely receive a full refund on the state taxes also.

Bill,
Is Australia a socialist country or communism?

-
Edited by fab4fan, Sep 4 2008, 01:44 PM.
Mnisthiti mou Kurie!
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Bill
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Well, we're not fascist, I can tell you that much.



(you asked for that! :P )


You hinted before about income redistribution. I know you're not a fan of the idea but if you think that American doesn't do it already, then with the utmost respect, you're dreaming.

How is awarding no-bid, cost plus (whereby the more money you waste, the more money you make) contracts, not income redistribution?
How is giving every taxpayer a free $600 not income redistribution?
How is spending billions of taxpayers' dollars to bail out banks that were too stupid to know that it's a bad idea to lend a sh*tload of money to people who they knew couldn't afford to pay it back, not income redistribution?

Just imagine for a moment if instead of giving that money to banks who got greedy, they gave it to the people who were foreclosed on.
Now I'm not saying that governments should bail out mortgage defaulters, but if it were the choice between one and the other, which would have been the better investment? What would have yielded the greatest benefit for both the people and the treasury?
Edited by Bill, Sep 4 2008, 02:09 PM.
Put a puppet on it.
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BeatleBarb
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Who is Palin calling "elite"? She needs to look no further than the party she's running for!

And the pitbull joke? Guess they have their own attack dog now!
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BlueMolly2009
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So Maryann, you're saying you're only going to vote for McCain, because Sarah Palin is his VP? That is not right. I don't like how some woman are going to vote for McCain, because Obama didn't ask Hilary to be his running mate. To me, IMHO, that's really stupid. It's like those who are voting for Obama just because he's black.
I come from a small town, yet I'm not voting for McCain/Palin. I liked some of the things Sarah said last night about small towns, but that doesn't mean I'm going to vote for her. Not everyone from a small town is an ultra Conservative. I do admit in coming from a fairly Conservative small town though.
I am going to vote for the candidate that has the issues I agree with, and right now it's Obama.
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