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| 2008 U.S. Presidential Election | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 22 2007, 05:49 AM (37,435 Views) | |
| Bill | Mar 27 2008, 06:36 AM Post #1101 |
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How ironic. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Mar 27 2008, 12:11 PM Post #1102 |
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I don't know... they say you should never discuss politics or religion, but it appears that we're now doing both simultaneously. I'm not sure about whether a lot of people would use that argument to rationalise bigotry, perhaps some would, but - speaking from a personal standpoint - that wouldn't be my angle. I think there's a distinct line between prejudice based on a person's religion opposed to knowing what decisions a politician would be likely to make because it was in line with his or her religious beliefs. For example, there are a few Catholic politicians who are pro-choice, but that's certainly not the norm, but if you knew a candidate to be strongly and traditionally Catholic, you would probably have a very good idea of where they'd stand on such an issue. In my opinion, it would be ideal if politics and religion could be kept completely seperate, but knowing how much of a person's personality is invested in a particular faith if they are religious, it would be naive to believe that a politician could 'leave their faith at home' whilst performing the duties of their particular office. On the other hand, I'm not entirely convinced that every single politician who claims to be a strong believer in any particular faith is making that statement from the heart. It would still be considered a shock in the early 21st Century for either the USA or the UK to have a non-Christian President or Prime Minister, for example. Without wanting to devalue or question individuals' particular faith, you have to wonder how much of it is heartfelt and how much is a vote-winning concession to the establishment and a necessary pre-requisite of power. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Bill | Mar 27 2008, 12:31 PM Post #1103 |
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Keep in mind that Tony Blair had to resign as prime minister before he could convert to Catholicism. To illustrate my point about people using it as an excuse for bigotry, you need look no further than the presidential candidates. The people who are making such a big deal about Obama's church are the same ones who said that Romney and Huckabee's faiths were irrelevant to the debate. Equally, some of those defending Obama relished the chance to put the boot into Romney over some of the more eccentric elements of his faith. You can't have it both ways. I think in the case of Huckabee, there was valid criticism since he had publically advocated changing the constitution to reflect Biblical law, or something like that. But on the whole, I think it does candidates an injustice to think that they can't separate church and state. The fact is that most politicians are pragmatists. To attempt mass conversions is not politically expedient. Can a referee who has a fondness for one team over another still umpire the game fairly? I think so. After all, there are checks and balances. And I would also observe that those who have no particular faith shouldn't jump to conclusions about those who do.
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| DCBeatle64 | Mar 27 2008, 10:32 PM Post #1104 |
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Wings nutter
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Lets face it, ultimately the US are not going to vote in a muslim because there is to high an amount of people who have this black and white view of them being terrorists. I hate the concept of religion and politics being intertwined and historically they have pretty much been brought up together. Even the Iraq war. No matter how much you query it essentially its a modern battle between Christianity and Islam. Religion is still a major issue in society because of these groups who still dismiss other religions and people get say they are as tolerant as they like but in reality they still have those same prejudices. Blair and Bush have both even been slagged off for their faith in the past when nobody should care what religion they follow but it has had a baring on their politics |
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I'm a BIGGER Beatles fan than you and I'm an even BIGGER Wings fan than that... 'You're a Paul McCartney fan? No you're a Wings fan'. 'Thankyou Scotland' Ho Hey Ho... ![]() I am the buttplug goo goo goo joob | |
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| beatlechick | Mar 27 2008, 10:56 PM Post #1105 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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The sad thing is, the pilgrims who came to the US from Britain came because of religious persecutions from the Church of England. One of the articles of the US Constitution is to keep a separation of Church and State. Unfortunately that seems to have gone by the wayside long long ago. Unfortunately there are an increasing amount of Churches that now preach how bad some State laws are along with preaching Bible passages from the pulpit. Preachers are not politicians, with the exception of Mike Huckabee who is an ordained minister, and should not put their Church in between the voter and ballot. |
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| fab4fan | Mar 28 2008, 04:15 AM Post #1106 |
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Caretaker
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Care to expound on this??? |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Bill | Mar 28 2008, 04:25 AM Post #1107 |
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I'm not sure where Cathy was going with that but I do know that Kathryn Harris is on record as saying that there is no separation of church and state because God chooses our leaders. Irony, anyone? :wacko: |
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| Mia Culpa | Mar 29 2008, 07:27 AM Post #1108 |
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In America it's not supposed to matter what religion a person is, but it does. If you're not a Christian you won't be president. The one time they voted for a Jewish vice president it went to court. Even Kennedy had a hard time getting in and he was Christian, just not the right sort of Christian apparently. |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| fab4fan | Mar 29 2008, 10:01 PM Post #1109 |
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Hil o'beans came to my birthtown yesterday, the first presidential contender (pretender) to do so since Bobby Kennedy in '68. I wanted to go to the rally with a sign, but I had to work. The sign would have warned her that we still hadn't caught the NW Indiana sniper.
http://www.nwi.com/articles/2006/12/31/new...255000b895e.txt |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| beatlechick | Mar 30 2008, 07:05 AM Post #1110 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Alright several of the evangelical Churches are now registering voters, sending their missionaries out door-to-door campaigning for issues and political leaders, and some preachers are starting to endorse candidates. Having John, Hillary, and Obama going to speak at a Church for a photo-op is one thing but having the preacher of a Church telling the congregation that they need to vote for a certain candidate is quite another thing. It's not even just the evangelical Churches either. My mother used to belong to a Lutheran Church a few miles from her home out in the deserts of California, I believe it is a part of a rather conservative synod - Missouri or Wisconsin, and the Pastor there not only preached against abortion but against or for political leaders, too! I can understand the abortion issue but what right does the Church have to tell their congregation who to vote for? Do they have the right to campaign for or against someone/thing? You bet they do, but as individuals and not a representative of a Church. |
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| maccascruff | Mar 31 2008, 02:16 AM Post #1111 |
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Sing the Changes
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I don't think the US would elect a Muslim president either and one of ten Americans believe Obama is a Muslim. I have had tax clients who when I ask the question about the $3 of your taxes to the presidential campaign fund, they say no way is it going to that Muslim. :rolleyes: |
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| Mia Culpa | Apr 1 2008, 05:25 AM Post #1112 |
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That's funny. Maybe people do get the politicians they deserve. |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| Reverend Dave | Apr 2 2008, 03:45 AM Post #1113 |
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Personally I'd like a Presbyterian president, but I don't think it should matter. The best presidents were deeply religious people, as were the worst. I could easily vote for a Jewish or Muslim candidate if I thought he or she - welcome to the 21st century - was right for the job. |
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With great power comes great responsibility. With great age.... What was I going to say? | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 2 2008, 06:21 AM Post #1114 |
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Personally, I wouldn't vote for Catholics, Protestants, Muslims and Jews. I wouldn't vote for a fanatic religious too. If the president has his beliefs, it's ok, as long as he doesn't start telling people to convert to his religion because if people don't make it, they will burn in hell and there is only one truth, and if you don't believe you are a sinner and you must pay for your sins. I would fight for Impeachment. But I never care about religion, I vote for the person and the opportunity, for the new. Tired of old blah blah blah. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 2 2008, 06:23 AM Post #1115 |
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I would vote for Obama, but if he wins he will have to be strong. It's a huge responsability. But I want him to win, that would be cool and he said many times he is not muslim. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 2 2008, 06:30 AM Post #1116 |
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If God chooses our leaders, He should stop choosing because HE can't stop making mistakes lately, and I doubt God chooses our leaders because He gave us the freedom of choice. People are incoerent. |
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| Mia Culpa | Apr 3 2008, 03:57 AM Post #1117 |
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You wouldn't vote for a Protestant but you'd vote for Obama? How does that work? |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 3 2008, 04:04 AM Post #1118 |
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hahahaha I noticed that. Stupid me |
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| Mia Culpa | Apr 3 2008, 04:11 AM Post #1119 |
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Now go to confession and vote Jewish :mellow: |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 3 2008, 04:12 AM Post #1120 |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Apr 3 2008, 01:46 PM Post #1121 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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Any ideas for a new poll, people? I aim to please - and to stir up discussion.
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| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Queenbee | Apr 3 2008, 01:49 PM Post #1122 |
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Poll ~ How about who should drop out of the Democratic race, Obama or Clinton? |
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PEACE and love to my friends, Judy When the Power of Love over comes the Love of Power, the world will know Peace. -Sri Chinmnoy Ghose Till me meet again ~ I Love you Mike! You were one of a kind. | |
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| Bill | Apr 3 2008, 01:50 PM Post #1123 |
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I think the previous poll has answered that question.
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Apr 3 2008, 01:56 PM Post #1124 |
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It'd be an interesting poll, though, to see how many people believe that one of the candidates should drop out. Is it really damaging the Democrats to have two strong candidates? Perhaps the constant publicity is actually good...? New poll coming up. Thanks Judy!
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| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Apr 3 2008, 01:57 PM Post #1125 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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Results of the previous poll: The vast majority of people thought that the President's religion or lack thereof should not be a factor in choosing the best candidate. Whether that is what happens in reality is another matter entirely.
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| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| ThirdHarmony | Apr 3 2008, 07:17 PM Post #1126 |
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Although inclined to the "Hillary should drop out" option, I had to go with the "unsure" option as I'm not really sure what effect her dropping out right now will have. Regardless of the fact that neither candidate is going to reach the 2024 delegates without the superdelegate votes, I will say this: I don't think there is ANY realistic way for Hillary to win the nomination. Having scrutinized the delegate counts, popular vote situation, current superdelegate effect and remaining net delegate effects from the upcoming primaries, even if Hillary clobbers Obama in PA and IN she won't even be close to closing the gap. For the superdelegates, no matter how "loyal", to swing that situation is hard to imagine. Add to this the fact that she underperforms against McCain compared to Obama on average. However, if you are in the Obama camp and interested in seeing him win the General Election against McCain, there may be pros and cons to her dropping out right now. It would certainly be good for the Obama camp to be able to focus entirely on the race against McCain. They are already well into this game seeing as they don't have time to wait. The McCain camp is also expecting him to be the candidate so they are firing out of both barrels against Obama. Still, if the Democratic nominee is not decided soon, the Republican machine can not be certain who the opponent is and may have to wait with using all resources against one candidate. Another aspect is media coverage of the Dem candidates and their speeches, policies etc. If this continues for months on end, with national headlines dominated by news on the Dems, the McCain campaign may have trouble ensuring equal exposure (more Iraq trips?). What they may hope for in this case is media fatigue where McCain suddenly appears as a "fresh face" (no matter how odd that may sound). |
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"My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson "Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. | |
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| beatlechick | Apr 4 2008, 02:00 AM Post #1127 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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I don't like Hillary but I don't think she should drop out. She should be able to give a voice for her followers as Barack and McCain do. My State used to be one of the last to hold a primary, by the time we had it there was very little to pick from. It is unfair to people who have yet to vote to not be able to vote for her or Obama. I say, stop trying to force her out. Obama says she should stay to carry on her fight. |
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| Bill | Apr 4 2008, 02:41 AM Post #1128 |
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While my personal preference is well known, the final choice has to be a pragmatic one, based on the question, Who will win more votes than they lose? To their credit, the Republicans have got this right. McCain may have p*ssed off a lot of a crazy base but the crazy base are going to vote Republican anyway. They need someone who will win more votes than they will lose and whatever you may think of McCain's policies, he has the credibility to state them far more than Romney or Huckabee ever would. Likewise, Clinton will easily carry all the default Democrats who will vote for whoever the party nominates, but Obama has the ability to win others over that Clinton just doesn't. |
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| Mia Culpa | Apr 4 2008, 05:42 AM Post #1129 |
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If you guys can't let democracy do its thing we'll just have to invade and liberate you all. |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| maccascruff | Apr 5 2008, 05:33 PM Post #1130 |
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Sing the Changes
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The George W. Bush Presidential Library is now in the planning stages. You'll want to be one of the first to make a contribution to this great man's legacy The Library will include: * The Hurricane Katrina Room, which is still under construction. * The Alberto Gonzales Room, where you can't remember anything. * The Texas Air National Guard Room, where you don't have to even show up. * The Walter Reed Hospital Room, where they don't let you in. * The Guantanamo Bay Room, where they don't let you out. * The Weapons of Mass Destruction Room (Which no one has been able to find). * The Iraq War Room. After you complete your first tour, they make you to go back for second, third, fourth, and sometimes fifth tours. * The Dick Cheney Room, in the famous undisclosed location, complete with shooting gallery. * Plans also include: The K-Street Project Gift Shop - Where you can buy (or just steal) an election. * The Airport Men's Room, where you can meet some of your favorite Republican Senators * To highlight the President's accomplishments, the museum will have an electron microscope to help you locate them. * Last, but not least, there will be an entire floor devoted to a 7/8 scale model of the President's ego State of the Union Address and Ground Hog Day This is a year when both Groundhog Day and the State of the Union address occur in the same week. As it has been pointed out, 'It is an ironic juxtaposition of events: One involves a meaningless ritual in which we look to a creature of little intelligence for prognostication, while the other involves a groundhog.' |
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| Queenbee | Apr 5 2008, 06:11 PM Post #1131 |
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I hope Colin Powell announces he's for Obama! Let's see how many people come over to Obama's side. |
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PEACE and love to my friends, Judy When the Power of Love over comes the Love of Power, the world will know Peace. -Sri Chinmnoy Ghose Till me meet again ~ I Love you Mike! You were one of a kind. | |
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| beatlechick | Apr 5 2008, 07:31 PM Post #1132 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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You and who's army?!?
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| fab4fan | Apr 6 2008, 01:15 AM Post #1133 |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/06/us/polit...3jp1vUuaW5RgB7Q April 6, 2008 McCain Is Vocal on War, but Silent on Son’s Service By JODI KANTOR One evening last July, Senator John McCain of Arizona arrived at the New Hampshire home of Erin Flanagan for sandwiches, chocolate-chip cookies and heartfelt talk about Iraq. They had met at a presidential debate, when she asked the candidates what they would do to bring home American soldiers — soldiers like her brother, who had been killed in action a few months earlier. Mr. McCain did not bring cameras or a retinue. Instead, he brought his youngest son, James McCain, 19, then a private first class in the Marine Corps about to leave for Iraq. Father and son sat down to hear more about Ms. Flanagan’s brother Michael Cleary, a 24-year-old Army first lieutenant killed by an ambush and roadside bomb. No one mentioned the obvious: in just days, Jimmy McCain could face similar perils. “I can’t imagine what it must have been like for them as they were coming to meet with a family that ...” Ms. Flanagan recalled, choking up. “We lost a dear one,” she finished. Mr. McCain, now the presumptive Republican nominee, has staked his candidacy on the promise that American troops can bring stability to Iraq. What he almost never says is that one of them is his own son, who spent seven months patrolling Anbar Province and learned of his father’s New Hampshire victory in January while he was digging a stuck military vehicle out of the mud. In his 71 years, Mr. McCain has confronted war as a pilot, a prisoner and a United States senator, but never before as a father. His son’s departure for Iraq brought him the same worry that every military parent feels, friends say, while the young marine’s experiences there have given him a sustained grunt’s-eye view of the action and private confirmation for his argument that United States strategy in Iraq is working. While Jimmy McCain’s service is a story all his own — he enlisted at age 17 — it illuminates the beliefs about duty, honor and sacrifice with which family friends say he was raised. Military ideals have defined Mr. McCain as a person and a politician, and he is placing them at the core of his presidential candidacy. Last week, he campaigned at his former stations of duty, explaining how the lessons he learned there would guide his decisions as commander in chief. “If I had ignored some of the less important conventions of the Academy,” as a demerit-prone midshipman, Mr. McCain said Wednesday at the United States Naval Academy, “I was careful not to defame its more compelling traditions: the veneration of courage and resilience; the honor code that simply assumed your fidelity to its principles; the homage paid to Americans who had sacrificed greatly for our country; the expectation that you, too, would prove worthy of your country’s trust.” With both potential Democratic nominees in favor of withdrawal from Iraq, debate about the war — whether it is winnable, what would happen if the United States withdrew, how much loss the country can endure — is likely to be a dominant issue in the general election. Mr. McCain’s potential opponents are already implying that he is too willing to risk American lives, too committed to stretching an already unpopular war far into the future. Out of the Public Eye Mr. McCain has largely maintained a code of silence about his son, now a lance corporal, making only fleeting references to him in public both to protect him from becoming a prize target and avoid exploiting his service for political gain, according to friends. At the few campaign events where Lance Corporal McCain appeared last year, he was not introduced. The McCains declined to be interviewed for this article, which the campaign requested not be published. “The McCain campaign objects strongly to this intrusion into the privacy of Senator McCain’s son,” Steve Schmidt, a campaign spokesman, said in a statement. “The children of presidential candidates in this election cycle should be afforded the same respect for their privacy that the children of President Bush and President and Senator Clinton have been afforded.” (To protect Lance Corporal McCain in case he is again deployed to a war zone, The New York Times is not publishing recent photographs of him and has withheld some details of his service). Born in 1988, the third of John and Cindy McCain’s children, Jimmy inherited his father’s features and slight build, outrageous humor and family tradition of military service that stretches back to the Revolutionary War. His grandfather and great-grandfather were the first parent and son to achieve four-star admiral status in Naval history. Then there was his father’s ever-growing legend. A hell-raising Navy pilot, John McCain relied on a defiant streak to survive nearly six brutal years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam. As Jimmy grew up, his father, first a congressman and then a senator, was always dashing off to speak at military events — a dedication here, a graduation there. Mr. McCain’s reputation was burnished with his memoir, “Faith of My Fathers,” and its adaptation into a television movie. Two of Jimmy’s three older brothers went into the military. Doug McCain, 48, was a Navy pilot. Jack McCain, 21, is to graduate from the Naval Academy next year, raising the chances that his father, if elected, could become the first president since Dwight D. Eisenhower with a son at war. The McCain children were not force-fed tales of their father’s bravery, said Orson Swindle, who was imprisoned in Vietnam with Mr. McCain. But “if you’re a man in the public eye, it’s hard for them not to know about it,” Mr. Swindle said in an interview. Early Ambition By the time Jimmy was in high school, he was scouting war memorabilia on eBay and playing video games like “Battlefield 1942,” classmates said. He chose sports that simulated combat, like fencing and paintball, and his prized possession was a World War II Army hat. At Culver Academy, a military-style boarding school in Indiana, he and his friend Nick Moore would fire up “Apocalypse Now” or “Platoon” on a laptop — critiques of war, but never mind — turn the sound down and talk about serving. “The testosterone was flying,” Mr. Moore said in an interview. “He’d say, ‘I’m just going to go in there guns blazing!’ ” Jimmy wanted to attend the Naval Academy, he told Mr. Moore, and then learn to fly. But how he would get there was uncertain. In interviews, classmates and teachers described him as the kind of kid who contributed impressive thoughts to classroom discussions but did not always turn in assignments, who was always collecting demerits for minor offenses like smoking — descriptions that echo those of his father at the same age. He left Culver after his sophomore year, making it the second school he passed through in two years. Sometime in the next year, Jimmy enlisted in the Marine Corps. He only called his parents to tell them afterward, according to Lance Cpl. Casey Gardiner, a friend from boot camp. Iraq was tilting toward civil war, with blasts of improvised explosive devices at their highest levels yet. Jimmy McCain was 17, so young that Cindy McCain had to sign consent forms for his medical tests before he could report for duty, according to Gunnery Sgt. Edward Carter, a recruiter in Phoenix who handed her the papers. By enlisting in the Marines, Jimmy seemed to be giving up his birthright. The Navy is, by reputation, the most aristocratic of the armed forces, the McCains among its most storied families. Now he would hold the lowest rank in a branch known for its grittiness. “The first time I heard he was going to be in the company, I couldn’t believe it,” said First Lt. Sam Bowlby, one of Lance Corporal McCain’s officers in Iraq. “He didn’t want to be in the shadow of his father,” Lance Corporal Gardiner said. But the new marine was fulfilling his father’s legacy in at least one way. John McCain had become a hero not for the missions he had flown or the men he had led, but for the privileges he had refused and the hardships he had endured. The North Vietnamese wanted to free Mr. McCain ahead of other captives because he was the son of a Navy admiral and Pacific commander. Mr. McCain refused. Now his son was carving a humble new path that the father, academy-bound since birth, never had. Jimmy began boot camp on Sept. 11, 2006. He took extra abuse for his last name, said Lance Cpl. Gregory Aalto, a member of his training platoon. Recruits are not even allowed their own eyeglasses, so Jimmy had to wear the standard-issue Marine ones, so unappealing they are known as “birth-control goggles.” As he completed his training and prepared for deployment, other marines caught only occasional glimpses of his family’s celebrity and wealth, such as when he handed out extra tickets for a Floyd Mayweather Jr.-Oscar De La Hoya boxing match he was attending with his father in Las Vegas. If anyone asked about his family, he had a sarcastic joke at the ready. When a cluster of marines asked how they could help his father’s campaign, Lance Corporal McCain pretended to call him and then passed on a message: they could carry out the contracts the senator had taken out on his rivals’ lives. “Jimmy was just completely joking,” said Lance Cpl. Johnathan Pebley. “You can kind of tell he doesn’t want to talk about it.” In July, days from deployment, Lance Corporal McCain, newly engaged to be married, joined his father’s struggling campaign in New Hampshire. He visited the Flanagans and sat unrecognized at campaign events. At the last stop, a veteran asked for a round of applause for the candidate’s brave Marine son. He did not seem to know that Jimmy McCain was sitting just a few seats away. Almost no one did. As Father of a Marine Mr. McCain did not speak publicly about whatever anxiety he may have felt about his son’s deployment, but Mr. Swindle described the experience as difficult. “Anybody who tells you it’s not tough is not being straightforward with you,” he said. Senator Christopher S. Bond, Republican of Missouri, whose son served two tours in Iraq, said he and Mr. McCain privately traded their concerns. “We talked about how it affects the young men over there,” Mr. Bond said. “He’s basically a father, very anxious about what his son’s going to be doing.” Representative Duncan Hunter, Republican of California, a former presidential contender whose son was serving in Afghanistan, said he and Mr. McCain would update each other at debates. “He knows what his father and grandfather went through as his sons went off to war,” Mr. Hunter said. “So he’s got a model to follow.” Indeed, John McCain’s own parents were dressing for a dinner party in London when they learned he had been shot down. They went anyway, never telling other guests. Later, Admiral McCain ordered air strikes on Hanoi, where he knew his son was imprisoned. Just before Jimmy’s departure, Mrs. McCain decided she had to see him one final time, according to Lieutenant Bowlby. With a few well-placed phone calls, she won permission to visit the Air Force base from which his unit would depart. When Lance Corporal McCain found out, he protested. No special favors, he said. Mrs. McCain stayed away. “God forbid someone gave him something the rest of the marines weren’t entitled to,” Lieutenant Bowlby said. Lance Corporal McCain and his fellow riflemen had trained for the worst in the spring of 2007, using paintball guns rigged as M-16s to apprehend costume-clad “insurgents” in fake Iraqi villages. In the real Iraq, they saw little combat. “We were expecting to get shot at all the time,” said Lance Cpl. Justin Murdock, 20. “But 95 percent of the time, nothing was going on.” The marines were stationed in Anbar Province, where some of the war’s bloodiest battles had been fought. But the fighting had moved on to other areas, and Lance Corporal McCain’s company mostly did security work, which meant keeping an unceasing eye on the locals, poor Sunnis who grew rice and other crops on small plots. Lance Corporal McCain’s unit performed “soft knocks” — visits to Iraqi homes intended as reassurance as well as surveillance, said Lance Cpl. Jason Case. His platoon hunted for weapons caches and I.E.D.’s, but also distributed school supplies and candy. Relying on interpreters and the bits of Arabic they all seemed to pick up, the 19- and 20-year-old grunts taught Iraqi police officers how to hold and clean weapons, search vehicles and conduct patrols. The hardest part, said several marines, was enduring tedium while remaining braced for mayhem. There were physical deprivations, too — searing heat, heavy gear, long hours and minimal sleep. Fifteen marines with whom Lance Corporal McCain trained or served were interviewed for this article, and all praised his performance. He “was just always a hardworking kid,” Lieutenant Bowlby said. “He never bitched about anything,” he said, and always seemed to be laughing. “The humility of him, that’s what blew me away,” he continued. For much of his tour, Jimmy McCain was cut off from political news. The rented Iraqi home where his platoon bunked did not have Internet service, and the 30-odd men shared one satellite phone with a shaky signal. Some news arrived via word-of-mouth, like the senator’s New Hampshire victory (Mr. McCain recounted the story at a recent Manhattan fund-raiser). Lance Corporal McCain did see his father once. On Thanksgiving, Mr. McCain visited Camp Habbaniya with Senate colleagues, and the two shared the holiday meal in the chow hall, according to several people present. Mr. McCain asked other marines if they saw security improving and seemed heartened when they told him they did. Lance Corporal McCain and his unit returned home in February. For his father, who believed that United States strategy in Iraq was working, his son’s tour corresponded well. The company had not lost any men, though three from the battalion had died. It had arrived in a stable area and things had only improved from there. “In my seven months there, you would see drastic changes in Iraq,” Lance Cpl. Greg Jumes said. Lieutenant Bowlby echoed his comments, as did every marine interviewed. “There were some hairy moments, but compared to the past couple of years, it’s 180 degrees,” he said, comparing his first tour in Iraq with his second. Mixed Events Two days after Lance Corporal McCain arrived back in the United States, his father shared his account of the war with Republican congressmen. In a private meeting on Capitol Hill, Mr. McCain mentioned the decline in I.E.D.’s that his son witnessed, the soccer balls he gave to Iraqi children. Mr. McCain’s audience responded with a standing ovation, according to a report published by CNN and confirmed by several aides who were present. In recent weeks, the news from Iraq has been less encouraging. The cease-fire between the leading Shiite militia and American and Iraqi security forces, which overlapped with Lance Corporal McCain’s tour, has frayed. Bombings and sectarian killings have increased. Days after the fifth anniversary of the war’s start, the death toll of American troops crossed the 4,000 mark. As Mr. McCain enters the general election, some say that his son’s service will underscore the sincerity of his stance on the war. “He has, to use a gambler’s term, skin in the game,” said Bob Kerrey, the former Democratic senator and longtime friend of Mr. McCain. “It’s among the most important things that people want to know about John McCain in trying to decide whether or not to trust him.” Last month, Mrs. McCain made a similar argument at a campaign event in Houston. “I want him to represent my son at 3 o’clock in the morning,” she said of her husband, referring to an advertisement for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York that boasts of her national security credentials. She wore a blue-star pin, the mark of an American with a family member at war. Her son is back at Camp Pendleton, where he is using the Jeep he just bought to ferry other marines to the beach. Lately he has been teased about a McCain presidency, according to Lance Cpl. Matt Drake, another company member. “Will we have to go patrolling with Secret Service?” they ask. “Shut up,” Lance Corporal McCain tells them good-naturedly. Kitty Bennett contributed research for this report. |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Deleted User | Apr 6 2008, 01:20 AM Post #1134 |
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Just don't invade the Virgin Islands brutally. Go slowly. |
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| Bill | Apr 6 2008, 03:09 AM Post #1135 |
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This is one of the reasons I still like McCain. A lesser man would flaunt his son's service. I wonder what the Romney boys are up to these days. I also have to say that McCain's speech about Martin Luther King was excellent. |
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| Bill | Apr 6 2008, 03:11 AM Post #1136 |
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Those who aren't allowed in are the lucky ones. |
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| beatlechick | Apr 6 2008, 08:09 AM Post #1137 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Trying on the magic underwear. As for McCain's speech for Dr. King, I didn't really think much of it. I harken back to the days when he voted down the King Birthday holiday. Yes I know people do change but for me his speech just did not do enough to erase his vehement no on the holiday. Sorry.
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| Mia Culpa | Apr 7 2008, 04:10 AM Post #1138 |
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Sad but true. I remember watching footage of that and thinking it was Bangladesh, not America. |
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| Mia Culpa | Apr 7 2008, 04:13 AM Post #1139 |
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We have the most moral army in the world, according to our army. But it's our air force you have to worry about. |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| Mia Culpa | Apr 7 2008, 04:14 AM Post #1140 |
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We'll buy them dinner first. |
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| fab4fan | Apr 7 2008, 01:38 PM Post #1141 |
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| Bill | Apr 8 2008, 03:56 AM Post #1142 |
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Rice campaigning for VP?? http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0...851-910,00.html Oh, wouldn't that be great! The woman who, as national security advisor, decided that a PDB headed "Bin Laden determined to strike in the US" was "speaking historically" and no big deal (because daily briefings are history lessons :wacko: ) might be trying to become Vice President? Be afraid! |
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| Deleted User | Apr 8 2008, 04:00 AM Post #1143 |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Apr 15 2008, 11:41 AM Post #1144 |
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Obama Defends "Bitter" Remarks PITTSBURGH (Reuters) - U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama spent a fourth day on Monday defending himself for calling people in small towns with economic blight "bitter" in a controversy that rival Hillary Clinton is trying to use for a comeback. Republican John McCain sought political gain from the flap, saying it is the people from small towns in America who survived the Great Depression, fought in World War Two and built a strong postwar economy who are the "heart and soul of this country." Clinton, who is vying with Obama to face McCain in the November presidential election, also pounced on Obama's remarks in an effort to revive her struggling bid to overtake Obama's lead in the state-by-state contest for the Democratic nomination. Clinton launched a television ad in Pennsylvania featuring an announcer summarizing Obama's comments and five of her supporters in the state condemning them. "I was very insulted by Barack Obama," a woman says in the ad. "Hillary does understand the citizens of Pennsylvania better." With tests looming in Pennsylvania on April 22 and Indiana and North Carolina on May 6, Obama was forced to spend another day explaining comments he made at a private fundraiser last week, in which the Illinois senator said economic problems had led voters in some small towns to become "bitter" and "cling to guns or religion." "Now it may be that I chose my words badly. It wasn't the first time and it won't be the last. But when I hear my opponents, both of whom have spent decades in Washington, saying I'm out of touch, it's time to cut through their rhetoric and look at the reality," Obama told steelworkers in Pittsburgh. Speaking to the Associated Press' annual meeting in Washington, he said many Americans are bitter about Washington not addressing economic dislocations caused by globalization, as well as high health care bills and other woes. "They are angry and frustrated with their leaders for not listening to them; for not fighting for them; for not always telling them the truth. And yes, they are bitter about that," he said. Speaking later to the same steelworkers, Clinton tried to keep the controversy alive. "I don't think he really gets it that people are looking for a president who stands up for you and not looks down on you," said Clinton, a New York senator and former first lady who would be the first woman president. But there was some resistance from the mostly union crowd, which included Obama supporters. Some murmured disagreement and said "no, no" when Clinton attacked Obama and remarked they were probably as disappointed by the comments as she was. An American Research Group poll conducted over the weekend showed Clinton with a 20 point lead over Obama in Pennsylvania, 57 percent to 37 percent. Previous polls had showed a closer contest in the state. Arizona Sen. McCain, speaking to reporters on his campaign plane on a flight to Pittsburgh, said the remarks may well have defined Obama for Americans as representing "a certain out-of-touch elitism." "I think his remarks may be defining, because it shows a fundamental attitude about the heartland of America, that basically says that it's economic conditions that shape their values," he said. Full article here |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Beatlesaholic | Apr 15 2008, 04:34 PM Post #1145 |
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Me At Thanksgiving On November 24, 2011.
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Thats So Funny!
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Paul John George Ringo Are My Favorite Beatles! The Beatles Rule!!!!! Beatles Biggest Fan Kirsten Julian Lennon Biggest Fan RIP John Lennon RIP George Harrison RIP Maurice Gibb RIP Andy Gibb RIP Michael Jackson RIP Grandpa Nick RIP Grandma Tess My Favorite Beatles Movie And Album Is A Hard Day's Night & My Favorite Paul McCartney Album Is Good Evening New York City! Gold Strawberry: BeatlesBiggestFan (16 votes) ![]() | |
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| maccascruff | Apr 25 2008, 12:42 AM Post #1146 |
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Bush is so out of touch with reality. First he didn't know gas was nearing $4 a gallon and now he doesn't think there is a recession. |
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| beatlechick | Apr 25 2008, 12:56 AM Post #1147 |
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Actually I think it was a mistake. In actuality he didn't think...............it was a repression! He always gets those two mixed up, repression - recession, all means the same to him!!
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| maccascruff | Apr 25 2008, 02:09 AM Post #1148 |
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Of course he didn't think. He doesn't know how to do that. |
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| Bill | Apr 25 2008, 03:58 AM Post #1149 |
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A question for all the Republicans and right-wingers reading: What do you make of Rush Limbaugh's "Operation Chaos :rolleyes: " initiative? This is where he has explicitly stated his desire to have riots at the Democratic convention.
Aren't there laws against inciting riots? Isn't that called TERRORISM??? Where the hell are the secret service and why haven't they hauled his sorry, fat ass off to Gitmo? |
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| fab4fan | Apr 25 2008, 04:33 AM Post #1150 |
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Talk about quoting things out of context. Operation Chaos is a call for all Republicans to cross over and vote in democratic primaries where the rules allow it and vote for Hilary so that the democrats can continue to destroy each other. (Did you see her Pennsylvania ad featuring 9/11 and bin Laden?) The riot part of your quote is actually the Rev Al Sharpton. He said that if the dems give the superdelegates to Hilary he will lead riots in Denver at the convention. |
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| Bill | Apr 25 2008, 04:50 AM Post #1151 |
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That's not true John. The bit about "where the rules allow it" has been added after the fact. The original call was for Republicans to vote in the Dem primaries, completely ignorant of the fact that to do so would require a stat. dec. declaring that they are doing so because they honestly support the policies of the party they are switching to - so there's a whole lotta dittoheads out there who have committed a whole lotta perjury. ....assuming anyone pays attention to this idiot. If you think it's out of context, listen to the audio: http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id...7a-8ac85334fc98 That's his strategery. I know there's no such word and he probably meant strategy, but I'm not supposed to quote out of context. Riots are the "dream end." Don't blame me, those are his words. It all makes you wonder why Republicans don't think they can win without cheating. Whatever happened to just being the better person with the better policies? |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Apr 25 2008, 10:30 AM Post #1152 |
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There is a phrase for that kind of thing - it's called "dirty tricks". Attempting to interfere with the democratic process in this way and encouraging people to do so should be (if it is not already) illegal. As for the Presidential campaign, I'm starting to think in terms of "anyone but Hillary". In fact, I'd rather see McCain win than her. I really don't trust her at all. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| maccascruff | Apr 25 2008, 08:33 PM Post #1153 |
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Sing the Changes
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I actually liked Bill, but I can't stand Hillary. If she gets the nomination, I will be doing a write in for my candidate. I can't vote for McCain, so I still have to vote or I can't complain for four years. Here is the transcript of what Rush said as shown at http://www.850koa.com/cc-common/mainheadli...article=3596738 This is what my boss listens to at work. Yesterday, Rush took a call from a listener who thought that Rush's ego may be getting away from him a bit, and that his Operation Chaos may have ramifications beyond Rush's control. Of course the local drive-by media (see Channel 7) is falsely reporting that Rush is calling for violence at the convention. Click Here to listen to the call, hear it for yourself and come talk about it in our forum. Or you can always read the transcript for yourself below: BEGIN TRANSCRIPT RUSH: Sinking Spring, Pennsylvania. This is Brian. Great to have you here, sir. CALLER: Yes, thank you. I was calling to comment on -- on -- on first of all the gentleman that had called in earlier about your ego. I am a Republican, and I'm a very conservative Republican. However, I have to agree a little bit, Rush, that -- from a comment that you made a little while ago, that -- I do believe your ego is run away with you slightly. RUSH: Well, first off, it was an e-mail. The guy didn't call actually, I read an e-mail from him that my ego was out of control. CALLER: Understood. Well, I believe in ego. I believe it's a necessary for your occupation. I believe it's the engine that, you know, that needs to be fed to make you good at what you do. I'm in sales, and I believe that for myself. But your comment about wanting your Operation Chaos to go all the way, like back to 1968 with riots in the streets, turned over burning cars, and I believe you even said "literally." RUSH: I did say literal riots. Al Sharpton has promised them! CALLER: But you said, "That's what we want." That's not good for anybody, and hopefully you really don't want that, and most of us don't. I believe in your Operation Chaos. It showed great ingenuity, and it was and is a fantastic idea. However, riots and burning cars would make all Americans look bad. I believe our whole premise -- RUSH: To who? To who would it make all Americans look bad? CALLER: To the world. RUSH: Oh, screw it! Screw the world! You know, I can't -- CALLER: I think there's that ego again. (laughing) RUSH: It will make...? Do you really think we ought to govern ourselves on the basis of what the world thinks of us? CALLER: I believe that we need -- that our whole premise on working hard for our side is to bring all Americans together, Democrats, Republicans, and independents even, under one common goal that our forefathers designed for us. RUSH: That's what we're trying to do. You don't bring them together. We don't bring people together. That's not how this country works. We defeat our political adversaries so that they're in the minority. CALLER: I believe that, with -- with passion. But then also, I mean our -- our whole premise was our Constitution for our safety, you know, for our children's safety. And what would that show by riots and burning cars no matter what side did that? I just think, Rush, that that comment was a little out of line and maybe just not properly thought through. Because I don't believe that way, and I don't believe that most of us want that. Because people get hurt in those situations -- and we believe that our side as Republicans, we can do it better than the rest. RUSH: As we would be demonstrating because there won't be riots at our convention. CALLER: Actually they would be demonstrating as Americans -- RUSH: We don't riot. CALLER: -- that they're more out of control. RUSH: We don't burn our cars. We don't burn down our houses. We don't kill our children. We don't do half the things the American left does. We need the American left -- and this is another great thing about Operation Chaos; nothing to do with my ego. We need as many ignorant Americans to wake up and find out exactly who the modern-day Democrat Party is as dominated by the far left in this country. We need that to be seen. Now, I am not inspiring or inciting riots. I'm dreaming. (singing to the tune of White Christmas) "I'm dreaming of riots in Denver." Remember 1968? And which party did that? It was the radicals in that party, the anti-war radicals, the same bunch of clowns that are running around defining the Democrat Party today. What the world thinks of us? There was an analogy just this week about somebody in the world. I'm drawing a mental blank about this. But the fact is that the Democrat Party has members in it that have already said, "There will be riots," or something to that effect. Al Sharpton. He was throwing down the gauntlet to the superdelegates: "You take this election away from Barack Obama, and there's gonna be trouble. There's going to be trouble in Denver." As for the rest of the world and what they think of us, you know, there's nothing that frustrates me more than to hear that. What part of the world do we care about? What part of the world do we want approval from? Do we want approval from the Europeans who have gone so damn wussy that they cannot -- they could not if they had to -- mount a military defense of themselves if they were attacked? Not even with NATO, because it has been allowed to lapse. Is it those people that we want the approval from? Do we want approval from people like Robert Mugabe? Do we want approval from some of the warlords and terrorists of Al-Qaeda? Who in the world do we want approval from? Do we want approval from Hamas, like Jimmy Carter does? We have the approval of our allies. We have the approval of the UK. We have the approval of the Australians. Do we want the approval of the Chinese? Do we want the approval of Kim Jong Il. Who do we want to love us? What is this? I guarantee you: You live your life this way as an individual, and you are forever going to be confused and unhappy because you will be embarking on something that's impossible, and that is, A, to make everybody like you; and, B, respect you. This is something that has to be earned, particularly on the side of respect -- and respect is earned with strength. Nobody is going to respect you if they figure out you're doing whatever you have to do to get their approval. They're going to laugh at you! They're going to think you're a weak-kneed wuss. So the hell with that! We do, hopefully, the right thing for the sake of this country. We're the only ones in charge of our affairs. We don't farm out our defense, unless we elect Democrats. We don't farm out our protection against attack and national security, unless we elect Democrats. We don't farm out our economy and tear it up in the name of a hoax called global warming, unless we elect Democrats. Riots in Denver at the Democrat convention would see to it we don't elect Democrats -- and that's the best damn thing could happen for this country as far as anything I can think: Don't elect Democrats! BREAK TRANSCRIPT RUSH: Let me tell you something, folks. If there are riots in Denver, the world is gonna just think that we're just like them, and we have something in common with them, and isn't that what we want to say: "We're all the same"? END TRANSCRIPT |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Apr 25 2008, 09:21 PM Post #1154 |
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All I can really say to that is this: Rush Limbaugh is scum. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| maccascruff | Apr 26 2008, 12:43 AM Post #1155 |
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Sing the Changes
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100% correct, Andy. |
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| beatlechick | Apr 26 2008, 01:03 AM Post #1156 |
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At this point, scum is to good for likes of him. He's the sh*t that you scrape off the bottom of your shoes! |
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| Bill | Apr 26 2008, 02:55 AM Post #1157 |
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All of Limbaugh's arguments are self defeating. Anyone with any rational thought can see that, but merely for the purposes of the exercise, please indulge me while I state the obvious.... If he wants to compare the 1968 conventions, let's look at what the Republicans did at theirs. They nominated Nixon! Then they elected him. Nixon was elected on a platform of ending the war. Instead he escalated it. Oh, and he went on to be the most embarrassing US president up to that point in history. Way to go! If Limbaugh wants to talk about anti-war people in 1968, then he must surely include himself amongst them. Or was he anti-war only in as much as he didn't want to go? He avoided service in Vietnam because of a pimple on his bottom. That and the fact that he didn't want to go - he's said as much. Now I don't blame anyone for not wanting to go to war - what makes a difference is whether they're happy for others to go in their place. If Limbaugh was real about his support of the war he would have said, "Anal cyst, my ass! My country needs me!" But he didn't. Fast forward to 2008. Again, he wants to compare the behaviour of the two parties and again, he loses. Did the Democrats interfere in the Republican primaries? No. Not one bit. Yet even so, Republican voters in their wisdom, chose the candidate that least suits the likes of Limbaugh and his ilk. Now if McCain (who I still respect) is such a good candidate - and he must be, because Republican voters chose him - then there would be no need to make mischief on the other side. Limbaugh's idea is entirely based on the premise that the Democrats have two very strong candidates and the Republicans don't, so the only way Republicans stand a chance is to cheat. And that brings us full-circle back to Nixon because the great tragedy of Nixon was that he didn't think he could win without cheating. Why should anyone inside a country care what anyone outside that country thinks? Good question! It's the same question asked by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim John Il, Robert Mugabe, Pervez Musharrif..... shall I go on? You have to laugh at all this. Limbaugh is reduced to inciting riots, perjury and possibly treason all to try an elect a candidate he hates. Stephen Colbert couldn't have done better! :lol: John, thank you for holding me to higher standards. All things considered though, I think I was pretty generous. If that makes me small or cheap, I plead guilty.
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| Mia Culpa | Apr 26 2008, 04:56 AM Post #1158 |
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Are McCain and the leaders of the party endorsing this plan, or just some guy on the radio? Is this radio guy an official party spokesperson or just some guy on the radio? |
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| Bill | Apr 26 2008, 11:09 AM Post #1159 |
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McCain himself certainly wouldn't endorse it. He has class. As for the party machine, it's a very interesting question. So is the question about whether he's an official party spokesman. There is plausible deniability, but when Dick Cheney gives a radio interview, it's not to NPR. Yet Limbaugh would be the first to tell you he is not a journalist. Go figure! |
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| maccascruff | Apr 26 2008, 05:08 PM Post #1160 |
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Sing the Changes
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Sadly, Limbaugh's show is very popular. I have to listen to it at work. My brother-in-law listens to it. My boss is telling clients about these riots that will be happening in Denver and how that will give the Repugs the White House. |
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| Bill | Apr 30 2008, 02:44 AM Post #1161 |
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Rush is getting his wish..... sort of..... :lol: Outmaneuvered by raucous Ron Paul supporters, Nevada Republican Party leaders abruptly shut down their state convention and now must resume the event to complete a list of 31 delegates to the GOP national convention. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ilIP7Ab...KftNYwD90ABL380 By the way, there's no schadenfreude in me posting this. I'm a big fan of raucous democracy. |
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| fab4fan | Apr 30 2008, 04:21 AM Post #1162 |
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That part was added by me to show that some of your points, which are stated as facts, are incorrect. I don't know if those are your opinions based on an erroneous source or what. You seem to think that each state has the same primary rules. They absolutely do not. Some states, like Indiana, allow you to walk in on primary election day and ask for either party's ballot. There is no oath of allegiance to a party. Some states have closed primaries. You can only vote for a party that you are registered to, usually months in advance of the election. My point being on this that the "fat, impotent dickhead" is being Rev. Wright-ed on this issue. Another fact you have wrong because your source is only one paragraph of a 2 month campaign is that El Rushbo is the one who wants the riots. The "riots" are a threat from the Reverend Al Sharpton if something happens and the superdelegates give the nomination to Hilary. Now Rush, whom I will be calling the same names you call him if he succeeds in getting Hilary the nomination, started a publicity stunt called Operation Chaos to try and get Sharpton the opportunity to make the Dems look bad. After some Dems started panicking that Rush may be affecting the race he, in his out of control ego glee, put together a couple of sentences that didn't explain the Sharpton origins and you have that narrow quote that is akin to the Rev. Wright tape-loops. It's as stupid as the minnions going around saying McCain wants a one hundred year war. Another angle is this. Some of Obama's earlier wins came because Repubs crossed over and voted for him. Was that dirty politics? (talk about redundant. )If I were an outsider like you what I would question is why does the democratic party have their nominating process set up so that the will of the people can be overturned by party insiders (super delegates?) And I can't believe in my first response when I mentioned Hilary used 9/11 images against Obama in Pennsylvania you ignored that. I seem to remember many a conniption fit any time Rudy would use it.And a final thought that's sure to ruffle a few feathers. Amazing to see that its not just right wing conservatives who have racist tendencies. I'm not saying anyone here has said that as much, only that it has been implied. |
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| fab4fan | Apr 30 2008, 04:26 AM Post #1163 |
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Almost forgot. Sunday a couple of Hilary supporters came to the door and interrupted our Easter festivites. After they asked me if they could count on me supporting her on election day I replied, "I'm very impressed she came to NW Indiana while we still have a sniper on the loose, but no." They were not amused.
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| Mia Culpa | Apr 30 2008, 05:54 AM Post #1164 |
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Racism's not about party politics. Any idiot can join any party. |
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| Bill | Apr 30 2008, 06:08 AM Post #1165 |
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Sorry John, but you're spinning now. I fully understand that different states have different primary rules. The point is that Limbaugh didn't seem to understand that. He made no mention of the fact that what he was advocating would amount to perjury in certain states. You're a Republican who crossed over because you believe in the candidate. That's not dirty politics, that's politics as it ought to be. It's totally different to what Limbaugh wants. And he never made it clear that it's only legal in certain states while in others, you have to declare your genuine support for that candidate. He never mentioned (and I am surmising that he never knew) that what he was suggesting amounted to a criminal conspiracy in certain states. Sharpton has nothing to do with it at all. He is not dreaming of riots, he has warned of them, which is a separate issue, though equally sleazy. Limbaugh is the one who actually wants them and is telling people to do all they can to cause them. What part of "I'm dreaming of riots," is there to be misunderstood here? Indeed, I'm very curious as to why the Democratic party has the mechanism to override the will of the majority of its members - but what does that have to do with Limbaugh wanting riots - apart from distracting from it? And speaking of distractions, if Hillary mentioned 9/11 with the same monotonous regularity as Guiliani, you're damn right I'd be talking about it. I've never made any secret of the fact that I think she's second-worst to Giuliani - I've said so all along. |
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| maccascruff | May 1 2008, 01:29 AM Post #1166 |
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I don't think it is right that unless Hillary drops out, the democratic candidate will be decided by the super delegates. Hillary and Bill have a lot of cards they can call in from years gone by and Obama does not. They've seen some of those people defect, but I'm sure a lot of arm twisting is taking place. It's very difficult for one man to run against a couple--especially when one part of the couple is an ex-president. This is also what I don't like: Bush 1 Clinton Bush 2 Clinton It's too much of a dynasty. The party needs to change the rules so the people choose our nominee. |
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| Mia Culpa | May 1 2008, 03:21 AM Post #1167 |
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So Clinton has experience and Obama doesn't. I think it's only a dynasty if they're similar. |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| fab4fan | May 1 2008, 01:36 PM Post #1168 |
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Can't argue that Mia. Remember this as we near the general election. |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| fab4fan | May 1 2008, 02:00 PM Post #1169 |
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Caretaker
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Will, were so close to being on the same page about something and yet so far away. I don't know but when I see radical left wing propaganda sites starting to accuse someone of perjury it raises a red flag to me. No wonder it looks like I'm spinning to you when the original spin has been bought hook, line and sinker. Which state has you "declare your genuine support of that candidate," and how is that enforced. (Are we getting dizzy yet?)As for distractions, trying to skewer a radio personality as opposed to talking about the democratic party nominating process in a thread titled "2008 U.S. Presidential Election,"..... To quote Hilary's newest found friend in the media, "I'll give you the last word on the subject."
:lol: (I hope all the smileys convey the tongue-in-cheek aspect of my remarks.) |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Queenbee | May 1 2008, 02:01 PM Post #1170 |
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Moderator
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Looking for Work A Japanese doctor said, 'Medicine in my country is so advanced that we can take a kidney out of one man, put it in another, and have him looking for work in six weeks.' A German doctor said, 'That's nothing, we can take a lung out of one person, put it in another, and have him looking for work in four weeks.' A British doctor said, 'In my country, medicine is so advanced that we can take half of a heart out of one person, put it in another, and have them both looking for work in two weeks.' A Texas doctor, not to be outdone said, 'You guys are way behind. We took a man with no brains out of Texas, put him in the White House, and now half the country is looking for work.'oik Throw in a little humor. :-) |
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PEACE and love to my friends, Judy When the Power of Love over comes the Love of Power, the world will know Peace. -Sri Chinmnoy Ghose Till me meet again ~ I Love you Mike! You were one of a kind. | |
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| Bill | May 1 2008, 02:31 PM Post #1171 |
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I don't want the last word, I just want to give my response, and will look forward to yours. What radical left-wing propaganda sites? Remember, I write all my own material - any copy & paste jobs are attributed. What original spin? Do we accept that there are distinctions between expecting riots, warning of riots and dreaming of riots? If so, then what's the problem?"Personality" is debatable but when such a personality is explicitly making mischief in the democratic (small d) process, I think it's an issue. Rather than waiting to see if his actions result in the wrong nominee before calling him (admittedly) nasty names, I'd be saying, "Don't you dare f*ck this up for me." Call it a pre-emptive strike. :lol: |
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| maccascruff | May 2 2008, 01:12 AM Post #1172 |
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Sing the Changes
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I can't believe what my boss and his daughter were talking about at work today. They both listen to Rush. :rolleyes: Apparently somebody called in and said he was going to vote for either Hillary or Obama because after four years of the Democrats, the Democrats would never, ever win another election. :rolleyes: I thought I was going to puke. I wanted to ask what do you think the Repugs and your beloved Dubya have done to this country for the last 8 years? Can't do that as it's the boss and his baby girl. Rush makes me sick. Do Repugs really believe this or just the type that listen to Rush? |
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| fab4fan | May 7 2008, 03:55 AM Post #1173 |
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Caretaker
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Gary, IN Gary, IN Gary, IN Tenuous link anyone? (think thread and SF website) |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| fab4fan | May 7 2008, 04:25 AM Post #1174 |
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Caretaker
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I'm sorry that last post was fuzzy. I had just watched Keith Obermann on MSNBC sing the line from a song in the Music Man. Paul's 'Till There Was You" is from the same movie, so there is the link to the website. (kinda, sorta) The link to the thread is that the county that I live in, in its first important primary election in 40 years, just may be the county that puts the stake in the heart of HRC. (not literally) What's happening is 91% of Indiana has reported and HRC is up by 20,000 votes.(out of a 1,100,000) The 9% left to report is Lake County Indiana where I live. In our county is Gary. Very African-American. Very Obama. Bottom line is even if the votes aren't there and she still ekes out a win, it will be by such a negligible margin that the writing is on the wall. Get your broom out babe, it's time for you to fly away. p.s. If Obama loses by one vote it's not my fault.
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| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| beatlechick | May 7 2008, 04:49 AM Post #1175 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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As of right now, her lead (which was in double digits in Indiana - wonder if Chad likes the results or not - he liked Obama) which was in the double digits is now down to 2%! |
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| fab4fan | May 7 2008, 04:58 AM Post #1176 |
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http://nwitimes.com/blogs/election/?p=47 Could Gary flip it? With Hillary Clinton’s statewide lead under 40,000, the pending results from Lake County loom large. While Clinton reportedly led voting in cities like Hammond, Whiting and East Chicago, Gary Mayor Rudy Clay is indicating a huge margin in favor of Obama in his city. It’s very lopsided,” Clay said, pointing to a hand-written list of precinct results. According to his numbers, in most districts Clinton’s turnout in the city of Gary was near non-existent. One precinct saw 126 voters turn out for Obama, while only four voted for Clinton. Clay said the election is seeing a record turnout in the city. “We’re used to having maybe a 22, 23 percent turnout for a primary. We’re seeing numbers as high as 85 to 95 percent,” Clay said. “The Gary people took care of business.” |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| beatlechick | May 7 2008, 05:16 AM Post #1177 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Sorry John. CNN just called it for Hillary with a very narrow margin. |
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| beatlechick | May 7 2008, 05:18 AM Post #1178 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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cnn calls Indiana for HRC |
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| maccascruff | May 7 2008, 01:06 PM Post #1179 |
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Sing the Changes
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It's time for HRC to get out of this race. It's over, Hillary. I think Chad will like the results. I will ask him when I see him here in July. |
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| Queenbee | May 7 2008, 05:33 PM Post #1180 |
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Moderator
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Linda ~ Is Chad coming to Colorado in July? If so ~ COOL ~ tell him I said HI! |
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PEACE and love to my friends, Judy When the Power of Love over comes the Love of Power, the world will know Peace. -Sri Chinmnoy Ghose Till me meet again ~ I Love you Mike! You were one of a kind. | |
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| beatlechick | May 7 2008, 11:10 PM Post #1181 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Being a Republican, he said that the one Democrat he was afraid of (because of his intellect and Chad admired him) was Barack Obama. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | May 7 2008, 11:14 PM Post #1182 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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I can't believe that someone as cool and rocking as Chad is a Republican. Actually, that goes for quite a few Macca fans I know.
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| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| beatlechick | May 7 2008, 11:15 PM Post #1183 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Rush "I am a f*cking pig" Limbaugh has got to go! He is claiming victory for HRC winning in Indiana. He said he got a lot of Republicans to cross over and vote for her. Now he is claiming that, since he considers Obama to be the weaker candidate, he thinks she should drop out so that Republicans can vote for their 'real' candidate McCain. So we now have him claiming he won HRC her victory in Indiana and wants to incite riots in Denver during the DNC just where the hell is this assh*le going to stop? Can't he just let the candidates speak for themselves and win or lose on their own merit? This 'man' just f*cking cheeses me off. :angry: :angry:
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| beatlechick | May 7 2008, 11:16 PM Post #1184 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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I know, hard to believe but they, too, come in all sizes, shapes, and colors. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | May 7 2008, 11:17 PM Post #1185 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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There's a new poll attached for you to vote on.
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| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Bag O' Nails | May 8 2008, 12:30 AM Post #1186 |
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MaccaMomma
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Thanks, Andy! :lol: :wacko:
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![]() One sweet dream came true....London & Liverpool '08 | |
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| maccascruff | May 8 2008, 01:16 AM Post #1187 |
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Sing the Changes
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Chad plans on visiting Denver in July and we are planning on meeting. He did say he was glad he was coming here in July and not during the DNC. Actually, I would like to leave town during the DNC. In my Obama group, they are saying that if you count the Repuglicans who voted for Hillary in Indiana, Obama won by 2 points. |
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| Bill | May 8 2008, 02:50 AM Post #1188 |
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I wouldn't presume to speak for him but I've always thought of Chad as a genuine conservative more than a knee-jerk Republican. The same goes for our friend in Chicago. There are people on all sides who give the more reasonable followers of their party a bad name. One shouldn't assume someone subscribes to right-wing extremist group-think just because they are a member of a party that has been hijacked by such ideals - and is hopefully being taken back. |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
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| fab4fan | May 11 2008, 08:55 PM Post #1189 |
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Caretaker
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At least we've eliminated knee-jerk. THANKS!
:lol:
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| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| maccascruff | May 21 2008, 02:13 AM Post #1190 |
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Sing the Changes
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Just saw my nephew get a hand shake in Des Moines at the Obama rally! |
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| fab4fan | Jun 4 2008, 03:14 AM Post #1191 |
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Caretaker
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OBAMA |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| BeatleBarb | Jun 4 2008, 03:17 AM Post #1192 |
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Really excellent! |
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| Samwise | Jun 4 2008, 04:02 AM Post #1193 |
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Obama's victory speech was probably the single greatest speech I have seen by a living politician in my eighteen-year lifetime. Hearing that made the hours of knocking on doors, making phone calls, and navigating the labyrinthian streets of Black Hills towns more than worth it all. I'm so glad my first-ever election got to end like this. |
![]() My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair! | |
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| beatlechick | Jun 4 2008, 04:30 AM Post #1194 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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He is a wonderful orator. Great, great speech! Just to bad Hillary wouldn't concede. |
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| LadyMacca | Jun 4 2008, 04:33 PM Post #1195 |
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-Imagine-
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Yikes.. politics! .. this is where I hide behind the couch an wave a white flag!
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| -Liz | |
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| beatlechick | Jun 4 2008, 11:51 PM Post #1196 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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It is your future that we are talking about so don't be that afraid of politics. Got a text message from cnn that by week's end the Hill will announce that she is conceding.
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| BlueMolly2009 | Jun 5 2008, 01:00 AM Post #1197 |
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LOLcat Freak
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I think a lot of people are fearful of politics because a lot of people don't want to hear both sides. They think their side is right and everyone else is wrong and won't listen to reasoning. That's why I started to block out the political threads because I know I can get wacky when it comes to political discussions sometimes. |
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Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
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| Deleted User | Jun 5 2008, 01:06 AM Post #1198 |
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Deleted User
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Oh God, I am happy for Obama. I love his speech, full of passion |
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| Mia Culpa | Jun 5 2008, 05:57 AM Post #1199 |
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Can pretty speeches run a country? |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| scottycatt | Jun 5 2008, 06:50 AM Post #1200 |
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We shall see.
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Why? | |
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any time Rudy would use it.
:angry:







2:01 PM Jul 11