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| 2008 U.S. Presidential Election | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 22 2007, 05:49 AM (37,436 Views) | |
| JeffLynnesBeard | Mar 19 2008, 04:18 PM Post #1001 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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There is no such thing as 'reverse discrimination' - there is only discrimination and that's all. If you say that you have seen more racism from black people towards white people, then you obviously haven't been looking in the same places that I have. Perhaps you have, personally, witnessed this - but it's certainly not indicative of the big picture in America or, indeed, across the globe. As for 'taking the Lord's name in vain', I believe he is doing no such thing. If a pastor is allowed to say 'God Bless America' then he should surely be allowed to say 'God Damn America'. They are both essentially the same thing - calling upon God to either bless or damn a country for its actions. You may not agree with his calling upon God to damn America - understandably so - but just because you disagree with the sentiment, doesn't mean that he is using the Lord's name in vain. As for your other point, I don't think that - other than understanding the discrimination that many black people have faced in their lives - I happen to agree with you that this doesn't make Obama more or less qualified to run the country than any of his opponents. The USA may well have moved forward on the 'race issue' (whatever that is) over the past few decades, but people are very quick to overstate that. Racism certainly hasn't disappeared. What is your source for your last statement, by the way - about Obama losing votes? Although I could well believe that it would lead to a momentary short-term shift in a certain section of society's confidence, it would be a very fickle and unintelligent person to decide not to vote for Obama based upon the comments made by a Pastor at Obama's church. The Pastor is obviously enjoying his time in the spotlight and using media attention to drive forward his own agenda. Although it is unhelpful to Obama's campaign, I severely doubt that it will be damaging in the long-term. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Deleted User | Mar 19 2008, 05:02 PM Post #1002 |
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reverse discrimination NOUN: Discrimination against members of a dominant or majority group, especially when resulting from policies established to correct discrimination against members of a minority or disadvantaged group. http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dicti...+discrimination
I was talking about what I have personally witnessed. There are many blacks in my area (E. St. Louis, Broklyn, Washington Park, Cahokia, Venice) who hate whites with a passion, so much that if you are white and go to their 'hood' you will be killed. There are many other citied across the country and the world much worse than it is here. There is even hoods police officers (black or white) refuse to go and that is bad.
He can say whatever he wants, I am not saying he can't, but if you think he isn't using the Lord's name in vain than I can't debate with you about it and I won't. I know he did. As far as the Obama lossing votes, I was tuned in to the radio and they were going through poll results and I couldn't make out the name of the poll. I will attempt to find out the name of that pool. Although we seem to agree at the very best it doesn't help him. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Mar 19 2008, 05:32 PM Post #1003 |
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Oh, right. What 'reverse discrimination' means in the US is known in the UK as 'positive discrimination' - but it would never be used to described, for example, a black person racially abusing a white person - that would just be called racism, as one person is discriminating against the other because of skin colour. Reverse (or positive) discrimination is used in the context of, say, employing an Albanian in a US factory, because his ethnicity was under-represented, above a white American even though the American was just as or more qualified for the position than the Albanian. The white American could then claim to be a victim of reverse discrimination. However, if the Albanian came outside and racially abused the American, you would not say that the American was a victim of reverse discrimination, it would 'just' be racism.
How many murders are there on record of white people going into a black neighbourhood and being killed because of simply being white? I'd be interested to know. I'm sure that many people feel intimidated in those areas and, of course, some people want to make you feel intimidated, but perhaps you are actually safer than you think in those places. I hear about a huge amount of what is referred to as "black on black" gun crime in the UK and the US, but not many cases of whites being murdered by blacks because they encroached on their territory. I suppose, looking at the bigger picture, you have to examine why those people feel that way and why many people of the same race all gather in one community and feel such anger towards whites - which may, or may not, be overstated.
Why?
No problem - I believe you. I was just interested in where that came from. There's a long, long way until the election, though. This incident will, I'm sure, have little influence on the outcome. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| fab4fan | Mar 19 2008, 10:29 PM Post #1004 |
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Caretaker
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you Bev & Cathy.
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| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| beatlechick | Mar 19 2008, 10:45 PM Post #1005 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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We you too, John!!
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| beatlechick | Mar 19 2008, 11:21 PM Post #1006 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Taking the Lord's name in vain is a very subjective phrase. I have an ex-father who said that, this was in the 70's, Jesus Christ, Superstar was taking the Lord's name in vain. This was coming from a man that was a liar and a cheater to me and my mom. A man that was an adulterer and a bigot who was allowed to stay in the Catholic Church. Saying the Lord's name in vain is something a lot of us say when someone that we don't know or necessarily agree with says something that offends us yet I would bet that you say (I know I have) God damn it or God damn you. Since damn's actual meaning is to condemn, you are asking God to condemn something. Jerry Falwell pretty much said the same thing this Pastor did when he spoke of 9/11 on the 700 Club with Pat Robertson. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson on 9/11 I know he apologized but the words are still there, still ringing loud and clear that bigotry and ignorance abound. For many people, words like these, alone have been what has killed God and faith for them. What the Pastor said was stupid and ignorant but so was putting the blame for 9/11 going on different groups that Falwell did not like and condemned. Speaking of 9/11, this is the 5th anniversary of the war in Iraq. A war that was based on lies. Osama Bin Laden, remember him? 3,992 American troops and over 80,000 Iraqi citizens have died. Osama Bin Laden? Still alive and kicking! |
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| Bag O' Nails | Mar 19 2008, 11:42 PM Post #1007 |
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MaccaMomma
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Just a point I'd like to make on the taking the name of the Lord in vain thing... Here's a good article by someone I respect about this: (Greg Laurie is the author of 12 inspirational books) Taking the Name in vain Posted: September 09, 2006 1:00 am Eastern © 2008 In a previous article, I listed God's "Top Ten list" of all time, the Ten Commandments. Now let's consider the third commandment on God's list: You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain. (Exodus 20:7) Here is one of the most misunderstood of the commandments, one that can be so easily broken. One of the most common ways to take the Name of God in vain is through profanity. Have you ever noticed how many who claim to be atheists invoke God's name quite regularly? "Oh my God!" or "Oh God!" Or by cursing. Look, God's last name is not damn. Such talk is clearly not a genuine call to the one true God, but is rather using the Name of God in a vain – that is, in an empty, frivolous and insincere – way. The Bible states clearly, "The LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His Name in vain." This is no idle threat but is simply a statement of fact. God is laying down an unchanging truth, not unlike the law of gravity. If you step off a 30-story building, you will fall to your death. That's not a threat, but a simple statement of fact. In the same way, if you take God's Name in vain, you will not be held guiltless or go unpunished. I shudder when I see people go out of their way to insult or blaspheme God. "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked." (Galatians 6:7) We must remember the God is holy. If there is one thing we see repeatedly in Scripture it is this fact. So we want to always have reverence and respect for God's Holy Name. Another common way people take the Name of God in vain is by saying, "I swear to God this is true." But why do we have to "swear to God"? Isn't this because our word isn't reliable normally? Do we find ourselves backing up our words because we make commitments we don't keep or say things that aren't true? Jesus explained this in the Sermon on the Mount: Again, you have heard that the Law of Moses says, "Do not break your vows; you must carry out the vows you have made to the Lord." But I say, don't make any vows! Just say a simple, "Yes, I will," or "No, I won't." (Matthew 5:37) Your word is enough. To strengthen your promise with a vow shows that something is wrong. Here are a few practical applications: If you say that you are going to do something, do it! Don't make commitments you don't intend to keep. "Oh sure, I'll meet you for dinner," but then you cancel at the last minute because someone you liked better called. Then you go out to dinner with them and run into the person you canceled! When you are hired to do a job, you should do it. Christians should be the hardest workers, never using their faith as an excuse for laziness. "I can't sweep the floor now, I need to pray!" When two people commit themselves to each other in marriage, they should honor their vows for the rest of their lives. But people today – even Christians – will just "bail out" of a marriage when it gets hard, citing "irreconcilable differences." But you should honor the commitment you made to your spouse – "for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health." You didn't vow, "Until I lose interest in you," or "Until a better spouse comes along." As Jesus said, let your YES be YES and your NO, be NO. We even have people today in what is called "Christian Retailing" who use the Name of God to further their business transactions. You can purchase a "Christian version" of just about anything out there. Now you can find everything from outstanding Christian books and music to ashtrays and lighters with the name of Jesus emblazoned on them! You can get "Christian" bird feeders, body lotions, luggage, lamps, scones, mud flaps, wallpaper, candy bars, mouse pads ... Are these people serious? Do I have to have "Christian mud flaps" to be spiritual? I ask this question – Is this a form of taking the Lord's name in vain? As already mentioned, the phrase "in vain" means to do so in an empty, insincere or frivolous way. But when we as followers of Jesus say, "God bless you," "Praise the Lord," "I'll pray for you," let those be heartfelt, sincere statements, not empty clich?s. Indeed, perhaps the most awful and subtle form in which this law is broken is by hypocrisy! Jesus said, "Why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do what I say?" (Luke 6:46) The hypocrisy of the church is far worse than the profanity in the street! To pray and not to practice, to believe and not to obey, to say, "Lord, Lord" and not do what He says – this is to take His Name in vain! If someone were to call out my name "Greg Laurie," I would turn and respond: "Yes, can I help you?" Think about how many times the name of the Lord is invoked and spoken in frivolous way each day. "Oh God!" "Jesus!" The Lord would turn and say, "Yes, can I help you?" So, next time you say the Name of God, pause and think about it. He is listening. |
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| ThirdHarmony | Mar 20 2008, 12:40 AM Post #1008 |
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This is veering somewhat off-topic, but re: using the word "God" as an expletive - this debate can go on and on (and on and on and on...) forever and ever if part of the audience are non-believers (like myself) who do not adhere to the belief that "God is listening", and part of the audience consists of people who genuinely do believe that. It appears there is division within the latter group as to what is "acceptable usage" - and I wouldn't be surprised to see broad political party lines appear in the middle of this division. As for simple manners and everyday "respect" (in the sense of not intending to cause offense, which is a position we may not always be inclined to hold) - I personally do not use phrases such as (the Swedish equivalent of) "Oh God" or similar. Not in an attempt to avoid some sort of "blasphemy", but because it would sound odd due to my lack of belief in God. |
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"My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson "Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. | |
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| Bill | Mar 20 2008, 04:52 AM Post #1009 |
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In what way did the pastor take the Lord's name in vain? He did no such thing. Certain people are having a knee jerk reaction to hearing those two words together. He was no using them as an expletive, as some are suggesting. He was using them as a verb. That's different. He's not the first person to say such things. Consider Pat Robertson. He was the one who stated the Sept 11 was God's punishment for America accepting homosexuality. In effect, he was saying that God had damned America, just not quite so succinctly. Did the Christian right hound Robertson? No, they made excuses for him. Did they express outrage when Rudy 9iu11iani (a man who should have been more offended by Robertson's garbage than most) accepted Robertson's endorsement? No, they didn't. Double standards? Damn right! I'm sure there's a special place in purgatory for cretins like Robertson and Falwell. |
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| Bill | Mar 20 2008, 04:57 AM Post #1010 |
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You've never stated it and I would never ask, but there is such a thing as a process of elimination. There are only three viable candidates left and your criticism of McCain (you'll have to remind me) has been far quieter than that of Clinton or Obama. Add that to the fact that you seem far more perturbed about an unwelcome endorsement for Obama than a welcomed endorsement for McCain. Is that fair and balanced?
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| maccascruff | Mar 20 2008, 05:24 AM Post #1011 |
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Sing the Changes
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Colorado had it's county conventions last Saturday. Obama increased his lead over Clinton here. Is that losing support? |
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| Deleted User | Mar 20 2008, 01:31 PM Post #1012 |
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It was the Gallup poll, and several other national polls. |
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| Deleted User | Mar 20 2008, 01:49 PM Post #1013 |
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Yes Bill that is fair. Some issues of McCain for example is his Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007. As far as the Pat Robertson is concerned he was critizied by O'Reilly and he made no excuses for him, as well as Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, and Laura Ingrahm, but you would have no idea because you don't listen to them so you are wrong. I am sure some people made excuses for him however I believe he had appologized for it. It was some years ago I can't remember exactly what he said besides I don't watch him. |
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| Deleted User | Mar 20 2008, 02:15 PM Post #1014 |
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I just want to clarify that I do not hold Obama responsible for Wright's comments. Obama has been there for 20 years, and if he had no idea about his controversial statements, then he is not super attenuated enough to be president. I think he has lost the election after this. Here is why, he needs to win over votes from Independents and the votes from undecided voters. The die hard Obama fans are secured, but undecided voters and Independets are certainly shaken and are wondering what else do we not know about him. What do we really know about Obama? He is a fresh face in the political world and that is the question now being asked. Can you imagine the up-roar if McCain went to a church for 20 years where the pastor was a member of the KKK and claimed he had no idea? Double standards? Damn right!
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| ThirdHarmony | Mar 20 2008, 02:38 PM Post #1015 |
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Dan, not to beat the subject death but... did you listen to Obama's speech in which he describes Wright and people like him, what his impressions of him were during those 20 years and the nature of that kind of preacher with that background? |
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"My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson "Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. | |
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| Bill | Mar 21 2008, 04:42 AM Post #1016 |
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Those would be double standards if the situation you described had happened. There's only one little problem though: it hasn't happened. So there are no double standards - just something that might happen in your own imagination.
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| Bill | Mar 21 2008, 04:48 AM Post #1017 |
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Dan, I'm not talking about the right-wing media bloviators who you devolve all rational thought to, I'm talking about individuals like yourself. And you ARE rationalising Robertson's behaviour by saying he apologised for it. So what if he apologised? If he could reach such an age and still not know innately what a stupid thing it was to say then he has no business influencing anyone at all and should no longer be heard. You don't have to remember what he said because these days we have a thing called the internet. Look it up! Oh, and speaking of looking things up: looky what I found:
Looks like Fox news has been reading your mind again! Now a question for you: What does "super attenuated" mean? In your own words please.
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| maccascruff | Mar 21 2008, 04:59 AM Post #1018 |
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Sing the Changes
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I was wondering what that meant myself.
Obama has not lost the election. He isn't even the nominee. Put yourself in the shoes of a black man of the age of Rev. Wright. He has seen segregation, been called the n word, etc. for many, many years of his life. He is angry and has every right to be. My father is about that age and sees nothing wrong with the n word--he has learned not to say it around me. I grew up in a small town in Iowa--no one lived there but white people. We took the train to Chicago for a vacation. It was the first time I had ever seen a black person. I distinctly remember staring and I now feel horrible about it. I wasn't even in kindergarten yet. I was totally ignorant, but I abhor my own behavior. We moved and I attend what was referred to the "black" high school in my town. I had many black friends and cherish those friendships. My father even learned to like one of my friends, but he still uses the n word. |
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| Bill | Mar 21 2008, 05:16 AM Post #1019 |
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Black men wear shoes? sh*t, next you'll be telling me they eat with knives and forks! |
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| maccascruff | Mar 21 2008, 05:19 AM Post #1020 |
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Sing the Changes
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You got me, Bill!
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| beatlechick | Mar 21 2008, 05:41 AM Post #1021 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Linda, I am considered white but have mixed heritage. The white side of my family are mostly bigots. They hate everyone. I grew up knowing what hatred is like. Hell, my own grandmother threatened to disown me when I was 10 for telling her that if I loved a black man enough (and knowing full well at the age of 10 what troubles we would be facing) that I would marry him. She said the day I do that is the day she disowns me as her granddaughter. I told her that was fine with me. How my parents ever got together, one Mexican-American (2nd generation American) the other Eastern European (1st generation American) who themself hate Mexicans, is beyond me. I hate the "n" word and feel it is more of a swear word than most swear words are. It is a word of pure hate and ignorance. Here is the definition of attenuated: Merriam-Webster attenuated One entry found. attenuate[2,verb] Main Entry: 2at·ten·u·ate Pronunciation: \ə-ˈten-yə-ˌwât, -yü-ˌât\ Function: verb Inflected Form(s): at·ten·u·at·ed; at·ten·u·at·ing Date: 1530 transitive verb 1 : to make thin or slender 2 : to make thin in consistency : rarefy 3 : to lessen the amount, force, magnitude, or value of : weaken 4 : to reduce the severity, virulence, or vitality of <an attenuated virus> intransitive verb : to become thin, fine, or less — at·ten·u·a·tion \-ˌten-yə-ˈwâ-shən, -yü-ˈâ-\ noun Sorry, Dennis Miller is a smart man but this makes very little sense to me. |
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| maccascruff | Mar 21 2008, 02:21 PM Post #1022 |
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Sing the Changes
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And now some State Department officials have looked at Obama's passport files--just before important primaries. Coincidence? I think not. |
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| Bill | Mar 21 2008, 02:30 PM Post #1023 |
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In fairness to Hillary..... Heather Mills has made another public misstep this week after posting video tributes from Hillary Clinton and Sir Richard Branson on her website without revealing they had been recorded years earlier. Both messages were sent before Mills had married Sir Paul McCartney, but were only made public in the wake of their divorce proceedings in an apparent attempt by the Mills to win back public support after the publication of the judge's ruling in the case. In her message, the Democrat presidential candidate praises the former Lady McCartney for being the "person she is and the work she does for all of us". But the clip, which is undated on the site, was filmed in 2002 — shortly before McCartney and Mills married. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=416512 |
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| beatlechick | Mar 22 2008, 12:01 AM Post #1024 |
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Apparently that was in the past and the same thing happened to Hillary and McCain.
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 03:30 AM Post #1025 |
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Here's something to think about regarding Obama's pastor: Would you condemn a war veteran for still carrying the scars 40, 50 or 60 years after the war is over? If the answer is No, then you have no business criticising Rev Wright. Racism is a war and it's a war he's old enough to remember. When you've lived through a war, you never forget it and the war is never truly over for you. My father lived through World War 2 and he hates Japs. He has always hated them and always will. Is anyone going to tell him the war is over and he should move on? Not if you like your teeth! I accept that he has lived through war and that he will always carry the scars and I thank God I don't have to. It's telling that the ones shouting the loudest about Wright are people who have never lived through a war, never been hated for the way they look and, to paraphrase the preacher, have never been called a n*gger. So when creeps like Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh to sit in their ivory towers and cry about racism.... give me a break! If Wright's comments are the closest you've ever come to racism, then what a charmed life you have led! Everyone should be so lucky. Thanks God we're moving closer to a world where everyone is. But don't you dare begrudge an old man his scars. |
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| tagandolfo | Mar 22 2008, 03:31 AM Post #1026 |
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But I think the difference is that Obama's was looked at three times and he was just recently told. Hillary's was last summer during a training period and I am not sure about the circumstances surrounding McCain's but I have to agree that I am I not so sure that Obama's was just a coincidence. Who's to say there wasn't something behind it? Will we ever know for sure? I mean just how truthful is this government anyway? |
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| Mia Culpa | Mar 22 2008, 03:41 AM Post #1027 |
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If racism's acceptable from people who've had to deal with it my grandparents should be allowed to murder Germans and Austrians at will. |
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| Mia Culpa | Mar 22 2008, 03:42 AM Post #1028 |
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What's with this passport story? What's in a passport file? Name, address, date of birth? That's public record anyway. |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 03:47 AM Post #1029 |
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That's not the corollary at all. No-one said they should be allowed to. My point is that no-one should blame them for wanting to. I certainly wouldn't. Presumably they didn't. That tells us a lot too.
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| Mia Culpa | Mar 22 2008, 03:54 AM Post #1030 |
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But who are you to decide from your ivory tower? |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 04:09 AM Post #1031 |
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You don't know anything about where I live. But I am aware of how lucky I am and my point is that a lot of people don't. |
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| Mia Culpa | Mar 22 2008, 04:18 AM Post #1032 |
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I might know a lot about where you live? Who's to say? But the point is a man who hates Japs because he fought them for 4 years is completely different from people who've had to deal with racism their entire lives. Most of us are lucky we don't have to deal with the level of hatred our grandparents lived with and died because of but none of that is a good rationalisation for any bigotry they demonstrate today. |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 04:29 AM Post #1033 |
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Well, if you want to imply insider knowledge about my life, you can put up or shut up. I'm not here to play games. And as you well know and have indeed illustrated, the war is never over for those who lived through it. It's not about rationalising bigotry, it's about showing respect for those who have lived through it. They deserve better than to have a bunch spoilt upstarts like you and me telling them how they should deal with what they've experienced. |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 04:30 AM Post #1034 |
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Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice spoke with all three candicates on Friday and expressed her regrets. In the meantime, State Department officials headed to Capitol Hill to brief the candidates' staffs. After speaking with Obama, Rice told reporters: "I told him that I was sorry, and I told him that I myself would be very disturbed." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23736254/ Of all the things Condi should apologise for! |
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| Mia Culpa | Mar 22 2008, 04:40 AM Post #1035 |
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Racism always hits a nerve. I don't want to annoy anybody whose time is too important to play games, but for anybody else I have a question or two, would you rationalise racism from McCain's pastor? Is it only ok from the person connected to the candidate you support or is it ok from anybody depending on their background? |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 04:50 AM Post #1036 |
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Excellent question, and thank you for asking it rather than attempting to answer it on others' behalf. (that wasn't directed at you). Firstly, I like McCain. He's made a bit of a dick of himself this week but I've always respected and admired him and he's another person who has lived enough and seen enough to say whatever he wants and have it heard. I have no time for those who want to make fun of him. Secondly, the real question is if McCain had a controversial pastor, whether he would be called to answer for it in the same way as Obama has. If the answer to that question is Yes (although it shouldn't be), then the next question would be was it was that informed the viewpoint of this hypothetical pastor. But back to reality for a moment.... How much of the media has been hounding John McCain about John Hagee? Has McCain been asked to answer for his endorser's bizarre views about Catholics? (disclosure: I'm a Catholic) If not, why not? It was a bad decision on McCain's part to associate himself with someone like that. But it still doesn't make him a bad potential president in and of itself. |
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| Mia Culpa | Mar 22 2008, 05:08 AM Post #1037 |
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If McCain's hypothetical pastor said "god damn America" and something about n*ggers you can bet your last ruble he'd be called to answer for it, whether he should be or not.
This is best answered by Americans, or at least people who hear American news. Around here we don't hear about McCain at all. Obama news is mostly good and Clinton news is mostly bad. |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 06:50 AM Post #1038 |
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Well, as I've already illustrated, Pat Robertson effectively said that God had damned America because of homosexuality but Rudy Giuliani went on to accept his endorsement and none of the people currently bitching about Wright batted an eyelid. I think that answers both questions. So it's not okay to say what Wright said but it's okay to call the Catholic church "The great wh*re" and "satan's church"? Don't get me wrong, my shoulders are broad. It's going to take a lot more than that to shake my faith and idiots like that aren't worth getting upset over. I just find it interesting, that's all. I'd also be interested to know what the Catholic church ever did to him. And I think it answers all the "what if" questions that have been put about McCain. And for what it's worth, we don't get much direct American news here either. We have the internet.
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| beatlechick | Mar 22 2008, 07:31 AM Post #1039 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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I DO get American news. I have heard a lot worse coming from Pastors than God Damn America. Take for instance Rev Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson blaming the homosexuals and abortionist for the 9/11 attacks. Hearing from Priests that homosexuals and adulterers will burn in Hell. Hearing from religious people that being a Christian I should not have a Jewish boyfriend. Hearing from other Churches that because my Church allows people of all sexual orientation that we go against the word of God and should be cast away like garbage into a landfill. |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 03:26 PM Post #1040 |
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Obama mentioned in his speech that we must continue to discuss racism in order to get over it. Well that is hard to do that, when most of the time when a white man disagrees with a balck man he is called a racist. I am tired of being called a racist every time I see things diffrent than they do and it makes most white people not want to talk about it with a black man or too afraid to. |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 03:33 PM Post #1041 |
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Can you give an example? Who has called you a racist? |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 03:39 PM Post #1042 |
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I heard an audio clip on the radio where Obama was at the "New Black Panther" meeting, he said in his opening remarks and I quote; "BLACK POWER! BLACK POWER! BLACK POWER!" My question is if I were to say "WHITE POWER!" would I'd be labeled a racist? Of course I would, so what's the freekin' diffrence? There is none. |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 03:42 PM Post #1043 |
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I find that highly suspect. What program? What station? Do you know it was Obama? I promise you if this were true, it would be all over the internet. Obama isn't that stupid. I think someone is having a lend of you. |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 03:50 PM Post #1044 |
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I have been called a racist many times Bill, by black people, because I did not agree with them on issues of affirmative action. If 2 people walked in at the same time (1 black 1 white). The only diffrence besides their skin color, was that the white man had a lot more experience than the black man, the company hired the white person. I agreed with the company that they did the right thing and he called me a racist. |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 03:52 PM Post #1045 |
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Well then I guess my ears were playing tricks on me because it was obama's voice. |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 03:54 PM Post #1046 |
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Further more how could anyone know I was going to tune in at that moment in time to have a lend on me? |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 03:57 PM Post #1047 |
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You only have the announcer's word for who it was. Did you hear it in context? Do you know what the program was? Did you hear it announced or did you just hear a voice that sounded like Obama's and assume it was him? Give this 12 hours. If there's any substance to this, we will know by then. If there isn't any more mention of it, then we will know it was a hoax. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences none of those people were Barack Obama and there's nothing to be gained from projecting your experiences with certain people onto other people you don't know just because they look similar. |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 04:07 PM Post #1048 |
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Well considering that most of the media is pro-obama, I would suspect that it was Obama, it was in context, besides if it were a hoax I would still not vote for him based on not that he is or isn't a racist but based on that I disagree with him on his stance on 98% of the issues (the war on terror, taxes, ect.). |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 04:13 PM Post #1049 |
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You say it was in context. Okay then, what was the context? I've already asked you what station it was and what the program was and you won't answer me. That makes me suspicious. Was it a news station? A talk show? A comedy program? These shouldn't be difficult questions if you are certain of what you heard. This isn't about whether you'd vote for him Dan, that's you own business. This is about truth and fiction. Like the fiction that most of the media are for Obama. Fox News have been trying so hard to put the boot into Obama that even Chris Wallace called them out for shoddy and misleading reporting. But then I wouldn't know that would I? Oh, and remember when Obama was a Muslim? I'm betting this "Black Power" thing belongs in the same box. Do you want to take that bet? Station and program is all I ask. If you don't know you can just say you don't know. |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 04:15 PM Post #1050 |
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It's really ironic that you mention that it was either a hoax or he was taken out of context. That's what a lot of Rev. wright supporters said about Rev. Wright, and it obviously is neither. |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 04:16 PM Post #1051 |
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It's really ironic that you won't answer the question. What station? What program? What was the context? |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 04:18 PM Post #1052 |
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Complete B.S. O'Reilly has been fair to him. So has a lot others. |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 04:21 PM Post #1053 |
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You must have missed Fox and Friends Dan. Chris Wallace tore strips off them for quoting Obama out of context. :lol: Speaking of context, how about explaining the context of what you heard? |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 04:21 PM Post #1054 |
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Can you answer me this what is the diffrence between black man saying "Black Power" and a white man saying "White Power"? |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 04:23 PM Post #1055 |
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No I did not watch Fox and Friends this morning. I was busy taking mom out to eat breakfast. |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 04:26 PM Post #1056 |
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To answer your question on the context of Obama, he was stating it exaclty like the KKK does to get the target audience excited, like he was in church yelling Praise the Lord! |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 04:27 PM Post #1057 |
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It depends on whether anybody actually said it. For pity's sake Dan, why won't you answer the question? It's not that hard. Just go to your radio and look at where the dial is pointing. If you're not willing to do that much in support of your claim then that supports my contention that there's no credibility to this story. My money is on the table. If it turns out to be true, you can say you told me so. But tell me why this isn't all over YouTube right now. |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 04:28 PM Post #1058 |
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97.1 FM |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 04:29 PM Post #1059 |
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That's not context Dan, that's a subjective description. Context means widening the quote, not describing the tone of voice. If that's all the context you have then you have no context at all. |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 04:31 PM Post #1060 |
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I had to go outside to look at my radio and mom had the car, it's not that I was ignoring the queston I was just waiting for my car to return, take a chill pill. It's not like you would find it credible anyway. |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 04:33 PM Post #1061 |
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Thank you. I'm not going to ask your area but help me out with which one of these it might have been: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=97.1+...gle+Search&aq=f It's important because you make a serious allegation and you offer no broader context for how you heard it. |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 04:34 PM Post #1062 |
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As much fun as this is mom and I are going shopping, so ta ta for now. |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 04:35 PM Post #1063 |
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97.1 tallk radio Westwood one. St. Louis. |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 04:38 PM Post #1064 |
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Not to be condescending Dan, but let me illustrate the importance of context:
See what I've done? I've cut out everything else you said and just left the bit where you said "White Power," and nothing more. That's what quoting out of context means. While it's undeniable that you typed those words, it's incredibly misleading because it has reversed the point that you made. Explain the context of what he was saying (IF there was any context given, IF it was even Obama saying it) and then we can discuss the issue. |
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| beatlechick | Mar 22 2008, 04:42 PM Post #1065 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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Dan, you have a lot of explaining here. You keep trying to get out of it, and right now it looks like you are trying to defame someone. I was just watching the news and none of this has popped up. Nothing said from your bible of news, Fox. Supposedly it was on his website about the New Black Panther Party. I live in California, just down the street from where the original Black Panther Party came from. I know the image they had but I also know what they were actually about, too. I don't care what Wikipedia says, they did not start out as militants. They started out helping the downtrodden people of Oakland. It didn't matter that a person was white or black, just had to be poor. They really got the ballrolling on healthy breakfasts in schools in the poorest neighborhoods in the State of California. Those breakfasts were free to the poor and about 10 cents to those who could afford it. They eventually did go into being a militant organization but, like a lot of people, they have mellowed. Their aim was to embolden the power of black people, who had very little say on the goings-on in their neighborhood. Hence Black Power. The white people have always had the power and used it over the blacks for a couple of hundred years. The same goes for the hispanics as well. Edited 97.1 in St. Louis? What are the call letters? |
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| Bill | Mar 22 2008, 04:46 PM Post #1066 |
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Thank you again. Fox News station, no surprises there. Looks like it would have been the Randy Tobler show. http://www.971talk.com/Tobler/index.aspx http://www.drtobler.com/ No mention of it on either of those sites, but it would take a day or so for today's content to be posted on their sites anyway. If there are truly recordings of Barack Obama chanting "Black Power!" then that's a huge story and it will be all over the place in a few hours. If it isn't, then there's your answer.
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| beatlechick | Mar 22 2008, 04:57 PM Post #1067 |
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Been looking at this blog, which appears to be right-wing, and they can't even unequivocably state that Obama's views are what they think they are. Obama and the NBPP |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 05:49 PM Post #1068 |
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Well, you can choose to believe he said it, or not taken out of context or not. I for one think it was not taken out of context. All I am saying is whether you are white yelling white power or black saying black power it offends me. |
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| Deleted User | Mar 22 2008, 06:03 PM Post #1069 |
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I am not tring to get out of anything and if you were reading you would see I mention the name of the station
I am also not defaming anyone, I only mention what Obama said, I did not accuse him of anything, just repeated what I heard on the radio and I made that clear. Now you can state that it was taken out of context all you want, but I hardly defamed anyone. Calling him a racist is defaming someone and I did not such thing. I do pose the question if someone says "white/black power" as being a racist comment. I believe it is (depending on the context of course). |
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| Bill | Mar 23 2008, 02:18 AM Post #1070 |
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Dan, I choose to believe things based on whether or not they are true. It's that simple. Ten hours later and there is still nothing in the news about this. Why do you think that is? Sorry Dan, you've been had. |
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| fab4fan | Mar 23 2008, 04:24 AM Post #1071 |
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Caretaker
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GREEK POWER! |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| scottycatt | Mar 23 2008, 04:30 AM Post #1072 |
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Ethnocentrist. :rolleyes: :lol: |
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| Mia Culpa | Mar 23 2008, 04:44 AM Post #1073 |
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Obama'd have to be a complete idiot to chant "black power" in public, no matter what the context. Say what you will about him, he's not totally stupid. |
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| maccascruff | Mar 24 2008, 02:02 AM Post #1074 |
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Sing the Changes
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Haven't heard a word on the news or internet about Obama chanting Black Power and I don't think he is that stupid to do that. |
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| fab4fan | Mar 24 2008, 04:09 PM Post #1075 |
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http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checke...ntures_par.html Here is the lying sack of sh*t who would be president nailed to the cross. This is backed up with video evidence and great commentary, which I have included in the text via the red hyperlinks. The best one to link to is the last one simply labeled "here." Candidate Watch Hillary's Balkan Adventures, Part II ![]() Greeting ceremony, Tuzla military airport, Bosnia, March 25, 1996. "I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base." --Hillary Clinton, speech at George Washington University, March 17, 2008. Hillary Clinton has been regaling supporters on the campaign trail with hair-raising tales of a trip she made to Bosnia in March 1996. In her retelling, she was sent to places that her husband, President Clinton, could not go because they were "too dangerous." When her account was challenged by one of her traveling companions, the comedian Sinbad, she upped the ante and injected even more drama into the story. In a speech earlier this week, she talked about "landing under sniper fire" and running for safety with "our heads down." There are numerous problems with Clinton's version of events. The Facts (Updated below) As a reporter who visited Bosnia soon after the December 1995 Dayton Peace agreement, I can attest that the physical risks were minimal during this period, particularly at a heavily fortified U.S. Air Force base, such as Tuzla. Contrary to the claims of Hillary Clinton and former Army secretary Togo West, Bosnia was not "too dangerous" a place for President Clinton to visit in early 1996. In fact, the first Clinton to visit the Tuzla Air Force base was not Hillary, but Bill, on January 13, 1996. Had Hillary Clinton's plane come "under sniper fire" in March 1996, we would certainly have heard about it long before now. Numerous reporters, including the Washington Post's John Pomfret, covered her trip. A review of nearly 100 news accounts of her visit shows that not a single newspaper or television station reported any security threat to the First Lady. "As a former AP wire service hack, I can safely say that it would have been in my lead had anything like that happened," said Pomfret. According to Pomfret, the Tuzla airport was "one of the safest places in Bosnia" in March 1996, and "firmly under the control" of the 1st Armored Division. Far from running to an airport building with their heads down, Clinton and her party were greeted on the tarmac by smiling U.S. and Bosnian officials. An eight-year-old Moslem girl, Emina Bicakcic, read a poem in English. An Associated Press photograph of the greeting ceremony, above, shows a smiling Clinton bending down to receive a kiss. "There is peace now," Emina told Clinton, according to Pomfret's report in the Washington Post the following day, "because Mr. Clinton signed it. All this peace. I love it." The First Lady's schedule, released on Wednesday and available here, confirms that she arrived in Tuzla at 8.45 a.m. and was greeted by various dignitaries, including Emina Bicakcic, (whose name has mysteriously been redacted from the document.) You can see CBS News footage of the arrival ceremony here. The footage shows Clinton walking calmly out of the back of the C-17 military transport plane that brought her from Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany. Among the U.S. officials on hand to greet Clinton at the airport was Maj. Gen. William Nash, the commander of U.S. troops in Bosnia. Nash told me that he was unaware of any security threat to Clinton during her eight-hour stay in Tuzla. He said, however, that Clinton had a "busy schedule" and may have got the impression that she was being hurried on her way. See clarification below. According to Sinbad, who provided entertainment on the trip along with the singer Sheryl Crow, the "scariest" part was deciding where to eat. As he told Mary Ann Akers of The Post, "I think the only 'red-phone' moment was: 'Do we eat here or at the next place.'" Sinbad questioned the premise behind the Clinton version of events. "What kind of president would say 'Hey man, I can't go 'cause I might get shot so I'm going to send my wife. Oh, and take a guitar player and a comedian with you." Replying to Sinbad earlier this week, Clinton dismissed him as "a comedian." Her campaign referred me to Togo West, who was also on the trip and is a staunch Hillary supporter. West could not remember "sniper fire" himself, but said there was no reason to doubt the First Lady's version of events. "Everybody's perceptions are different," he told me. Clinton made no mention of "sniper fire" in her autobiography "Living History," published in 2003, although she did say there were "reports of snipers" in the hills around the airport. UPDATE Friday 6:45 p.m. Lissa Muscatine, who served as Hilary Clinton's chief speechwriter in 1996 and accompanied her on the Bosnia trip, feels that I have failed to provide a full picture of what took place. She gave me her "vivid recollections" of the arrival in Tuzla, which I quote below: I was on the plane with then First Lady Hillary Clinton for the trip from Germany into Bosnia in 1996. We were put on a C17-- a plane capable of steep ascents and descents -- precisely because we were flying into what was considered a combat zone. We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla. As an additional precaution, the First Lady and Chelsea were moved to the armored cockpit for the descent into Tuzla. We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip. From Tuzla, Hillary flew to two outposts in Bosnia with gunships escorting her helicopter. UPDATE Saturday 8:45 a.m. Gen. Nash says that I misquoted him in saying he was unaware of any "security threat" to the First Lady. While he was unaware of any "sniper threat," he now tells me there were a couple of "security concerns" that day, which he found out about after returning to his headquarters after greeting Clinton at the airport. There was a "non-specific report" of a possible truck bomb in the area. The military also had information that "some of the communications associated with the First Lady's visit were being monitored." "In both cases, we took appropriate security action," said Nash, adding that Clinton's visit was not disrupted. Anybody else with first-hand memories of Clinton's Tuzla trip, please send them along. The Pinocchio Test Clinton's tale of landing at Tuzla airport "under sniper fire" and then running for cover is simply not credible. Photographs and video of the arrival ceremony, combined with contemporaneous news reports, tell a very different story. |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| beatlechick | Mar 24 2008, 10:58 PM Post #1076 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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If you had paid any attention to the part that you quoted (I will bold, italicize it, and make it purple for you) you would see that I acknowledged your post but you never did give the stations call letters. We were posting at about the same time and when I started my post, yours was not posted yet. Without documentation, it is hard to justify your statement. Thereby, one can accuse you of defaming somebody until you could prove it. It took Bill several tries to get anything from you. Yes I know it had to do with your mom and the car radio but you know people would want to know where you got that statement. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Mar 25 2008, 07:01 PM Post #1077 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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There's still nothing on the news/net about this. Could it be that it wasn't true?
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| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| beatlechick | Mar 26 2008, 12:14 AM Post #1078 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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You can find it in blogs but so far, that is about it. |
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| Bill | Mar 26 2008, 01:29 AM Post #1079 |
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Hillary's latest gaffe is amusing on two levels. Firstly, for her O'Reillyesque pretensions to heroism and secondly for Republican outrage over it. If Dick Cheney has taught us anything, it's that "a warm welcome," and "a hail of bullets," are interchangeable. So what's the problem? :lol: |
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| Mia Culpa | Mar 26 2008, 03:16 AM Post #1080 |
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One of my favourite parts of all this is how candidates want endorsements from people who dropped out of the race. Do you really want someone whom nobody voted for to tell people to vote for you? |
| If you read my posts backward there's evidence that Paul is dead. | |
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| fab4fan | Mar 26 2008, 04:29 AM Post #1081 |
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Get with the program! Barrack has declared it okay for non-Republicans to be outraged over this also. Now the rest of you can admit she sucks too! On another note Hilary has let her potential supporters know it is okay to be outraged over the words of Obama's pastor. (and while you're at it, spread the word in Pennsylvania.) Those of you waiting for the general election mudslinging by the republicans are missing some whoppers right now. |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Bill | Mar 26 2008, 05:12 AM Post #1082 |
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Much as I respect the man, he doesn't tell me how to think. My amusement is to with how Bush supporters reconcile the comedy of Hillary portraying a welcome arrival as some kind of war zone with Cheney portraying an arrival in a war zone as some kind of welcome. I find both misrepresentations equally comical. :lol: |
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| fab4fan | Mar 26 2008, 05:28 AM Post #1083 |
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Iraqis will be welcoming visits from U S vice-presidents well after Barack's VP's last visit. (don't know which emoticon to use here, I just know it needs one) |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Bill | Mar 26 2008, 05:39 AM Post #1084 |
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Will they have to travel in secret too?
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| fab4fan | Mar 26 2008, 06:24 AM Post #1085 |
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Let's hope not!
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| Bill | Mar 26 2008, 06:42 AM Post #1086 |
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Full points for optimism but perhaps the lesson of the last five years is that just hoping for the best isn't enough. |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Mar 26 2008, 07:21 AM Post #1087 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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I've removed the first poll and will replace it with something a little more interesting. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Bill | Mar 26 2008, 08:01 AM Post #1088 |
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Just to correct an apparent misunderstanding, I was attempting to contrast Hillary's mischaracterisation of her arrival with Cheney's mischaracterisation of the US invasion's arrival in 2003 - hence "warm welcome" and "sniper fire" being interchangeable.
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| Dorfliedot | Mar 26 2008, 08:26 AM Post #1089 |
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A Jehovah witness. so, I can see him go to door to door. Then he know how I felt when I was younger. |
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| fab4fan | Mar 26 2008, 12:57 PM Post #1090 |
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I thought you were talking about Cheney's recent visit and I thought I had missed something in his characterization of it. You're way off in comparing Hilary's "recollection" of Bosnia with Cheney's "prediction." And as the link to the Frontline series I provided to you months ago proves, the US was welcomed as liberators, albeit for only 2 or 3 days. The looting ended things pretty quickly. BTW, the last 2 nights I sat through 5 hours of an updated Frontline called 'Bush's War.' It is available for viewing at pbs.org. Incredibly informative. |
| Mnisthiti mou Kurie! | |
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| Bill | Mar 26 2008, 01:17 PM Post #1091 |
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Downloading it as we type - I hope.... I don't think we need to play semantics with how things turned out. If the horse you back has its nose in front for a moment before it falls and breaks its leg, you've still lost your money. But back to shitcanning Hillary, I loved her response: "I made a mistake, it proves I'm human." Some mistake! Ask us again who we want answering the phone at 3am! :lol: |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Mar 27 2008, 12:31 AM Post #1092 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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Hillary's 'exaggeration' of her arrival in Bosnia is staggering. After following the Mills/McCartney divorce for several months I've had enough of fantasists. There's putting a spin on things and there's just downright lying. Hillary's "human error" is firmly in the latter category. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| DCBeatle64 | Mar 27 2008, 01:12 AM Post #1093 |
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Wings nutter
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Thats just a disturbing poll, although I would be interested what the response would be if it was given to a wider audience. You would probrably discover that people would say I dont care but then it would turn out who ever the group were the would vote for their own, so to speak |
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I'm a BIGGER Beatles fan than you and I'm an even BIGGER Wings fan than that... 'You're a Paul McCartney fan? No you're a Wings fan'. 'Thankyou Scotland' Ho Hey Ho... ![]() I am the buttplug goo goo goo joob | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Mar 27 2008, 01:28 AM Post #1094 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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You may be right. I think it was an interesting response by Dorothy who said that she'd like the President to be a Jehovah's Witness because then he (sic) would have had the same experience of going door to door as her. To me, this is a very interesting viewpoint. I mean, we all want our politicians to represent our views at the highest level, but a Jehovah's Witness President, and I say this with all respect, would probably be a complete disaster for America because of the very specific beliefs they have and the influence that their religion would have on their decisions wouldn't represent the best interests of the country as a whole - in fact it would never happen. I would go so far to say that a minority religious group follower would never get the Presidency. There is more chance in there being an Athiest in the White House than a Jehovah's Witness. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| beatlechick | Mar 27 2008, 01:41 AM Post #1095 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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John, that was an incredible show the past 2 nights. Came upon it by accident and was not sorry I did. For anyone interested in watching this incredible show, the link has been posted on the Iraq War thread. |
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| Bill | Mar 27 2008, 04:48 AM Post #1096 |
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I'm half-inclined to agree but equally, couldn't you say all those things about a Mormon too? And if so, would it be fair comment? I mean, I find Mormonism to be a bit of a freaky cult but by the same token I've never met one (and there have been a few) who wasn't an incredibly sweet person. My distaste for Romney had nothing to do with his faith and everything to do with his policies, or lack thereof. That, and the fact that he seemed to be the go-to candidate for a lot of wing-nuts. I'm a Catholic and everyone knows that. Whether or not a candidate is Catholic or not would not effect what I thought of them. One of the most contemptible creeps in the (former ) Howard government, Tony Abbott, also happens to be Catholic. I don't regard that as a point in his favour, just an embarrassment to Catholics. I wonder if this reveals faith as one of the last remaining acceptable prejudices. It's like asking if you would prefer the nation's leader to be straight, gay or bi. You could construct an argument that a bisexual leader would have more understanding of more people than someone who preferred one or the other. What matters is not who the person's peer group are, but whether they would govern for all people rather than just their own peer group. |
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| Bill | Mar 27 2008, 04:59 AM Post #1097 |
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Here's one to file under "What if the other one did it?" I still like John McCain. I've always respected him and I think a lot of the name-calling thrown at him from some of the leftie blogs is completely uncalled for. But his mantra of Bush Administration talking points is turning him into an embarrassment. Recently he claimed that he was right to describe Iraq as the central front in the war on terror not only because David Petreus says so but also because (he claims) bin Laden says so. HUH? Can you imagine what people would be saying if Obama said, "I must be right - Osama bin Laden says I am!"? John, please get back to being the sensible, rational, dignified candidate we all know you can be. |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
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| JeffLynnesBeard | Mar 27 2008, 05:01 AM Post #1098 |
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Administrator & Moderator
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You may be right about a Mormon President perhaps being unacceptable to the American public, but I'm not sure about your comments regarding people being prejudiced against faith are comperable to prejudice based on sexuality. Faith is based upon belief which is, basically, a theological opinion - a choice. Actively choosing a faith or choosing to practise the faith upon which they have been raised is a different than being homosexual or having a certain skin colour. You can, essentially, change your mind about faith whereas you cannot change the colour of your skin or your sexual preference. I'm not arguing with the fact that some people are prejudiced against others because of religious belief and I am in no way condoning that prejudice, it's unacceptable, but a belief in a particular religion denotes a certain way of thinking and if that way of thinking isn't in tune with a person you would want to represent you, politically, then it isn't so much prejudice as disagreeing with the opinion that a politician may have on, for example, global warming or socialised medicine. The politician's faith or lack thereof is probably a more fundamental piece of their character than their viewpoint on those subjects, but it is still an opinion with which people are free to agree or disagree with. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
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| Bill | Mar 27 2008, 05:32 AM Post #1099 |
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Fair point, probably not the best analogy but I would suggest that a lot of people who would claim to merely be analysing a candidate's thought processes would be doing so as a shortcut to rationalise bigotry. |
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| beatlechick | Mar 27 2008, 06:16 AM Post #1100 |
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In Paul's Arms!
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I do know of some people that totally base a person's merit on their religion. To this one particular person, a person is good if they are a Christian. I used to live with this woman who was a very nice woman but highly suspect in her views on religion. She would always make it a point to tell me, or anyone interested in listening to her, that a handyperson she hired was because he is a Christian. Yes being a Christian, in all forms of Christianity, can be a great thing for many people but Christians can be just as immoral as anybody else. There was a couple of times where she really showed her true stripes. One time was a direct slap at my Church saying they weren't teaching me (and her son would have to be in this, he goes to my Church) right on certain aspects of the Bible. She got in my face because I got an invite from one of the AIDS organizations that I raised money for to go to a party where palm reading was being done. All in fun. She yelled at me that it was the devil's work and as a Christian she was appalled that I would even think of going. Another time she got in my face about some of the very spiritual songs The Beatles did. That morning, on our local Breakfast with The Beatles, they played some songs that really hit home that day. My mom had been on my mind, she was not as sick as she is now, and my mom told me that the night before she thought she was going to die. On my way to Church, it was a Sunday morning, the songs Let it Be, God, and All Things Must Pass came on. Very powerful moments for me and helped lift my mood. I made the mistake of telling her about this and she said to me that The Beatles never did anything spiritual. I shot her down faster than you can say God. Even my mother said that it was like a sign telling me that things would be okay. Not my ex-roommate. She does vote based on religion and is a Republican. |
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:lol:
you Bev & Cathy.

You presume too much. I have issues with McCain, and I have criticized him (publicly). I have never stated nor will I stated who I will vote for or, it’s none of anybody’s business. There is a thing called a "write-in" if I I am unhappy with the choices on the ballet.




) Howard government, Tony Abbott, also happens to be Catholic. I don't regard that as a point in his favour, just an embarrassment to Catholics. 
2:01 PM Jul 11