| This is an archived forum, so it is here for read-only purposes only. We are not accepting new members and members cannot post any longer. Members can, however, access their old private messages. Strawberry Fields was open from 2006 until 2011. There is a Strawberry Fields Beatles Forum on Facebook. If you are registered with Facebook, join us at the group there! |
| 'Butt Printing' Art Teacher Fired; I think he has Balls... | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 10 2007, 09:47 PM (639 Views) | |
| JanaW | Jan 10 2007, 09:47 PM Post #1 |
|
Va. school board fires ‘butt-printing’ art teacher Paintings done during off-hours sell for as much as $900 Updated: 4:21 a.m. CT Jan 10, 2007 RICHMOND, Va. - An art teacher whose off-hours work as a so-called “butt-printing artist” became widely circulated among high school students has been fired. The Chesterfield County School Board, in a unanimous voice vote, fired Stephen Murmer at a meeting Tuesday night, spokeswoman Debra Marlow said. In its decision, the board reasoned that students have a right to receive their education in an environment free from distractions and disruptions, Marlow said. The decision also is in keeping with court rulings that hold that teachers are expected to lead by example and be role models, she said. Jason Anthony, Murmer’s attorney, called the vote “a bad day for the First Amendment.” “Chesterfield lost a tremendous asset today,” he said. Murmer, a teacher at Monacan High School, was suspended in December after objections were raised about his private abstract artwork, much of which includes smearing his posterior and genitals with paint and pressing them against canvas. His paintings sell for as much as $900 each on his Web site. The unique approach to art became a topic when a clip showing Murmer, wearing a fake nose and glasses, a towel on his head and black thong, turned up on YouTube.com and became the talk of the high school. © 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. |
|
If slaughterhouses had glass walls the whole world would be vegetarian. Linda McCartney | |
![]() |
|
| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 10 2007, 11:18 PM Post #2 |
|
I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
|
To be quite honest with you, I don`t think people should be so easily offended by what constitutes artistic expression. And just because you are a teacher in the public school system doesn`t mean you have to be totally sanitized does it. I suppose I could have bitched and moaned when my oldest daughter went to Italy her Junior year of high school on an art tour sponsored by my local public school system. After all she did see that huge statue of David in Florence Italy in all his tremendous male glory. Why is it that we seem to have absolutely no problem with going to art museums and looking at classic works of art that portrayed the human body in all it`s nude Glory, but if it is portrayed in a modern context it become obscene. How do you really begin to get away with ever defining art? There happens to be in the English Countryside a huge chalk outline of a Giant and the most obvious feature about this Giant is his gigantic penis. Why do we not feel it necessary to erase that image in order to protect our innocent children? And yet we think we have the right to impose controls on other images that provoke feelings we may not be comfortable in dealing with. Maybe we grownups need to grow up a bit and then true reason and logic could prevail. I am much more offended and ready to protest when my children are exposed to images of violence. The human body is an object to be glorified and not reviled, but violence is quite an offensive subject as far as I`m concerned. |
|
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Jan 10 2007, 11:30 PM Post #3 |
|
Deleted User
|
Okay ... as a 'grownup' that is without children to be concerned about I think I can honestly say that I myself find that to be slightly gross anyway. I mean the visual impression that I'm left with is some guy with a bunch of paint on his kibbles and bits rubbing himself (and those areas) onto a canvass in the name of artistic impression and then posting it on youtube as what(?) ... a cry for free expression or help?? Perhaps as a child he was made to feel uncomfortable about his bowel movements or something ... and now he's having his day in the limelight. Thinking that signing his works with the name 'Murmer' is a little funny too by the way (I mean he must do that wouldn't you think?).Whatever ... I think comparing this dime store art to Michelangelo's David is a little bit of a stretch. Not that I'm actually offended or anything, just confused at the notion that someone might think that I would be.
|
|
|
| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 10 2007, 11:40 PM Post #4 |
|
I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
|
I am not making a case for comparing his art in anyway to the statue of David. But art is art. Do the cave paintings that have been dated to many many thousands of years ago compare to what man later achieved as artistic expression. Maybe not but they are still art. Art cannot be pushed into a narrow little mold. Art is the expression of the individual and if it speaks to you then it doesn`t matter if it is rubbish to someone else. I happen to think Picasso sucks green weenies but lets face it people the world over are pleased as punch if they are fortunate enough to own one. I am not saying that I would think what this man does would be personally appealing to me, but it was his own expression of whatever his personal vision is. And the fact that he is teaching high school should not get anyones knickers in a twist. I have raised 4 kids and I`m liberal and not one of my kids has ever been in trouble with the law, had drug or alcohol problems or out of wedlock pregnancies. Maybe the fact that we talked openly about sex, the human body and nature from the very beginning, and took them to art museums and encouraged them to ask questions and be curious helped, or maybe I just got lucky. When I hear of a school board running a teacher out of town on the rails over something like this makes me think of the Scopes Monkey Trials. Maybe this man wasn`t a good teacher but the article doesn`t tell us anything about that. Good educators are hard to come by in this country and we desperately need them. I hope that this man was not one of the good ones that was let go due to small mindedness. |
|
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Jan 10 2007, 11:56 PM Post #5 |
|
Deleted User
|
Well I wasn't necessarily saying that you were comparing the two ... I just meant that on the one hand, people are probably going into that museum fully expecting to see the full frontal view of David in all his glory. Conversely ... anyone can rightly rub paint all over themselves and then get all squishy with a canvass. The difference ... I'd hazard a guess that it took several hundred hours of contemplation, planning and execution to get that piece of marble into anything resembling a youthful nude young man. I'd also hazard a guess that it probably took all of $10 to do what the presumed martyred high school teacher did ... and we all know that youtube is more than willing to allow anyone to upload stuff. Not really having an issue with the subject either way personally. Just find it funny that the lawyer is trying to appeal to the publics sense of 'fair play' by invoking the 1st Amendment argument (an age old defense that always seems to be brought up in these situations). I wonder if the framers of the constitution in enacting that Amendment after they were bold enough to sign the Declaration of Independence actual thought that their assertion that they had the right to be mift about those things outlined in that Declarative statement would be ultimately used to defend some guy's right to fancy dipping his privates with a bunch of paint in the 21st century, in the name of 'art.' Life is pretty silly sometimes, especially in print. |
|
|
| Deleted User | Jan 10 2007, 11:59 PM Post #6 |
|
Deleted User
|
By the way I also find it a little funny that anyone in their right mind would actual pay up to $900 to patron the guy and his apparent fetish with the old oil canvass. :wacko: |
|
|
| ogoble | Jan 11 2007, 12:04 AM Post #7 |
![]()
|
You did say "Virginia" teacher?........
Thank goodness! I'm safe for the moment here in Alabama. But, I guess I'd better cool it with my after hours body painting Art Class.
|
Beatles/Paul McCartney & Wings Fan
| |
![]() |
|
| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 11 2007, 12:07 AM Post #8 |
|
I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
|
In the words of the famous Emily Natella never mind. lol |
|
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
![]() |
|
| JeffLynnesBeard | Jan 11 2007, 12:08 AM Post #9 |
|
Administrator & Moderator
|
I am in full agreement with Betsy's points. I believe that whatever someone decides to do in their spare time, unless it is illegal, should have no bearing on their job - and that includes teaching. This person has a strange way of expressing himself, artistically, but that should be no barrier to being a teacher, if the two things are kept seperate. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
![]() |
|
| iscreamer1 | Jan 11 2007, 12:37 AM Post #10 |
![]()
Baking Fairy Cakes
|
I agree with Betsy too. This teacher wasn't asking his students to participate in this art form. If it wasn't for Youtube no one would have known. As for paying $900 for one his paintings, people have paid alot more for alot less. I bet they will sell for alot more now! |
Laughter is the shortest distance between two people - Victor Borge | |
![]() |
|
| BlueMolly2009 | Jan 11 2007, 01:33 AM Post #11 |
|
LOLcat Freak
|
I to agree with Betsy on this one. Whatever a teacher does during their spare time is there business. I know I've heard people say that if you're going to teach you have to be careful what you do on your spare time, because your students might find out and might be perminately damged. I don't agree. |
|
Molly Myspace My Twitter My FriendFeed My Facebook ![]() Boston Chihuahuas (I took this while at a Starbucks) | |
![]() |
|
| JanaW | Jan 11 2007, 02:38 AM Post #12 |
|
I do not believe that ANY employer has the right to hold a person accountable for what they do on time that they are not being paid for. If the person is breaking the law...then that is different. But until companies begin to pay people for their time 24 hours a day....they need to mind their business. |
|
If slaughterhouses had glass walls the whole world would be vegetarian. Linda McCartney | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Jan 11 2007, 03:41 AM Post #13 |
|
Deleted User
|
I don't really want to change the 'flow' of this exchange that's going on, because ultimately despite my musing I do agree and don't quite care. Evidently my take hasn't been fully appreciated in the spirit that I offered it up tho' ... which is too bad. I'm still amused by all the fuss on this, and agree with 'iscreamer1' that the notoriety is more than likely gonna be something that this guy ends up benefiting from since these types of things are often awarded by the mere mechanism of attention being drawn toward what's happened. Now he'll probably get a few $1000 for the same stuff (although I still think he must have been inspired by doing lewd acts with the photocopier at some point in his life :lol: :lol: ). One thing though, that point about whether employer's have the the right to dictate to their employee's about their off-time hours ... what about those that are on salary and are in sensitive positions to boot? I mean I could come up with a scenario not based upon the current dialog wherein someone that's in a position that ultimately could impact the safety and well being of others (say a police officer, a fireman, a conductor of a bus or a train) and they are on call for whatever reason. In their off time they decide to get totally polluted (i.e. intoxicated) and are called into work. They've already failed to come in when on-call previously due to similar situations, and are fearing that if they call in this time they will be dismissed. In their intoxicated state they make a poor judgment call and decide to come to work and fain sobriety in order to not be dismissed ... while on duty they end up being responsible for someone losing their life. Sometimes there are gray areas to these types of things. I'm taking an ethics course you'll have to forgive me on that completely off-topic approach to those instances where I personally would hope that someone would be voluntarily responsible above and beyond the call (although I think this is actually a feasible and practical expectation given my example). I guess I might be over analyzing the situation, but it is an interesting ethical type of thing to consider and is giving me the opportunity to exercise some of that stuff at the moment (LOL). I realize that none of that has anything to do with whether or not this guy should be allowed to teach high school students. Although I'd have to wonder if by having this issue become public might have impacted his effectiveness within the institution due to the potential for a cohesive breakdown of student-teacher dynamics. The students may have ultimately been unable to take the guy seriously after this got out and it became the "talk of the town." |
|
|
| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 11 2007, 03:45 AM Post #14 |
|
I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
|
I will most certainly get back to you on these points you have raised. I have much to say. However at this moment I am in a spades tournament and am waiting to find out who my opponent in the next round is. Therefore can`t take the time to expand on this subject at the moment. Let me just plant this seed though, I can`t recall ever a situation where a school teacher was called in on their off hours to teach an emergency class. Nor can I recall how putting paint on your genitalia would adversely affect your ability to teach a class during normal working hours. |
|
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Jan 11 2007, 03:55 AM Post #15 |
|
Deleted User
|
You're right ... I was completely not talking about the finger painter gone global. :lol: :lol: :lol: I was more or less thinking along the lines of when or rather if there are ever circumstances wherein one would hope that someone would be cognizant of their actions when off duty. Of course I'd also presume that in these instances that criteria might be something that would be fully discussed when the offer of employment occurred between all parties involved. More of a left field sort of rationale being used, to kind of challenge the immediate response one way or the other on the matter (pro or con). It's all speculative at this point anyway, I mean I myself don't live anywhere near Virginia and can't quite say that I have any idea of what their societal standard for public school employee's is when compared to where I'm currently at (which is generally a bit more liberal I'd say than Virginia). Hope you do well in that game of spades by the way. |
|
|
| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 11 2007, 04:48 AM Post #16 |
|
I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
|
You see where the subject of school teachers are concerned I have found it to be the case over the years that society has quite a double standard that they would like to apply to teachers and it varies from region to region based on the particular religious climate of that particular area. I am not quite sure that is at all fair. I could site certain bawdy posts and jokes made on this very board by a teacher who lives in a very conservative Bible belt part of this country that many parents might get all up in arms if the proper spin were put on his off hours behavior with the rest of us. But we know him to be a good and moral man who is having a bit of fun and letting off some steam and perhaps indulging in some harmless fantasy. It would be a real shame if narrow minded bigots got their hands on that info and exploited it in order to rob this man of his job. I certainly would never want to see that happen to anyone. And most certainly not someone I had come to believe was fundamentally a good and decent person, but in the hands of frightened zealots that very thing could happen over something as innocent as lascivious remarks and buxom pictures of scantily clad ladies being posted for all to see on the internet. If this man who was relieved of his job was given the boot because he was incapable of properly teaching the subject according to the district that employs him then all means he should not have his job. If the only reason that he was let go is because he smeared paint on his ass and his willy and rubbed them over a canvass then that is wrong in my opinion. Especially when you are talking about high school kids. Even first year psych students are taught that a persons fundamental morality and personality is well in place by the time they reach puberty. True, high school kids are going to do stupid irrational things, but if the worst thing the are doing is snickering about mister so and sos butt prints on the internet that is not so bad. The bottom line has always rested at home learning first. By the time our little darlings enter the public education system in this country they have already been in most cases irrevocably set upon a pattern that will direct them for the rest of their lives based on what mom and dad(if he is even in the picture) have chosen to expose and educate them towards. I am never in favor of the tar and feather approach to solving any issue. History is full of examples of that very thing and it almost always has an immediate negative effect. It also usually ends up being used as an example hundreds of years later when the next enlightened group arrives on the scene and rolls their eyes at the stupidity of the people that came before them. We were taught after all that for thousands of years people believed the world to be flat. That if you left rags and debris in obscure places that that was how insects bred. That the brain was not the center of thought and emotion but it was the heart. And when we were taught that that is how people use to view the world around them it was done to show us that we have learned better. Learning better will never stop as long as there are people left on this planet to learn. I think this is another example of some learning we still have to do. |
|
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
![]() |
|
| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 11 2007, 04:51 AM Post #17 |
|
I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
|
By the way, on that spades tournament. Me and my partner were runner up.
|
|
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
![]() |
|
| JanaW | Jan 11 2007, 04:54 AM Post #18 |
|
My sons are both police officers. VERY seldom have they been called in off duty when they would not be able to function. Surprisingly, most of the police officers I know are family men who don't go out partying each night and get so "polluted" they can't work. You are talking about a "what if" scenerio. I am talking about a company who keeps tabs on everything their employees do. Would you want to work for a company that said. "You can go to work for us but we don't want you to drink, smoke, or cuss. If you do, you are fired. We don't believe in forums, so you can't go to Strawberry Fields and talk to friends. Our employees will only drive green cars with two doors. You can't wear eye make-up or you can't drive down a certain street because there are hookers down there and it looks like you are trolling if you do." This is what I am talking about. Labor laws say you are paid for a certain amount of hours per month and what you work over you should be compensated for. They do not say that if you are salaried, your life belongs to your company and you are at their mercy 24 hours a day. |
|
If slaughterhouses had glass walls the whole world would be vegetarian. Linda McCartney | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Jan 11 2007, 05:23 AM Post #19 |
|
Deleted User
|
Interesting commentary that you've brought up and I do appreciate your expanding upon the rationale behind them, although I'd have to say that this isn't the 'Scopes Monkey Trial' ... and it may indeed be a regional thing. I mean I myself didn't quite agree with the whole push about Intelligent Design being placed within Biology classes in Kansas a couple of years ago. I have not one problem with that being somewhere within the curriculum on some level because given the diverse world that we live within it's probably a good idea to offer some context and expose folks with these things because occasionally these things are something that may clarify or challenge the intellect, but perhaps it would be better suited in a Theology course or a Philosophy course as opposed to a science based course. Although I think to try and dispute the Theory of Evolution with it is questionable because in the current world, which is truly a global community, these children need to be cognizant of the material in order to be able to effectively collaborate and contribute to the sciences if they chose to go into the fields that are based upon those areas of science that might not be held in high regard by factions that would prefer to have Intelligent Design be the be-all end of the discussion. It (in my opinion) would be a disservice to the children to not adequately prepare them for the global community that they could be moving into, and that's just kind of unfortunate. I'm, admittedly taking college coursework as a returning adult student and find that in quite a few courses Biblical material has been invoked perhaps on occasion in curious ways ... but it's still there without intruding upon those areas that it might not be as appropriately suited toward. For example I'm taking a BioEthics course at the moment, and guess what one of the books that I'm looking at has invoked within it in order to build upon the concepts behind ethical debates ... Biblical material. Thinking that probably took things off course again, sorry. I'd say that the real story that no one is really looking at within this issue is the point about youtube though. I've come across some articles of late that are indicating that potential employer's are indeed now looking at prospects on-line persona's and they're doing so in a rather serious fashion. If you've got a MySpace profile or any other on-line profile wherein you either volunteer controversial opinions, make slanderous outburst about previous employer's or co-workers, having questionable images of yourself or whatever the case may be ... these things might end up being factored in by the hiring manager. If it's down to you and your on-line persona and someone else that's without an on-line persona (or with an on-line persona that's less controversial) you might find yourself factored out of the bid for employment without ever even knowing that this material was playing a part in the decision process. Is that fair ... I don't know, they might be trying to judge whether or not they want to invest their interests in you from a legitimate angle. Or they could be just abusing the interconnectivity of the current wired world? Of course we all know that they'll often look at things like one's credit rating, and driving record in order to get some sort of picture or impression of someone that they're interested in ... but these things require a signed statement from the individual in order to be released to them. These on-line issues are (in my opinion) evidently not being handled in the same manner ... they're just doing it without your consent, but then again so is everyone else that ends up perusing your profiles. I was actually going to post something about that in that thread that was dedicated to whether or not people had MySpace accounts, but decided that more than likely the efforts on my part in bringing it up wouldn't end up being appreciated (like I'd be throwing a damp towel on peoples 'down time' escapades). I'd say this guy's situation was enhanced by his personal choices which evidently were in contrast to his best interests. Is that fair, maybe not ... but it's probably realistic and probably something that may be inevitable given the newness of the Internet and the inherent naivety of some people. Just like ID Theft ... that's something else that's occurring to some folks that are naively offering up too much information on themselves via these 'online communities' ... and of course other ugly things between adults and children that have been covered in far too much detail by Dateline NBC of late. Regardless ... looks like we need to be careful and remember that sometimes that which seems sweet can have an awfully bitter aftertaste. |
|
|
| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 11 2007, 05:31 AM Post #20 |
|
I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
|
All I can come up with at the moment is blah blah blah
Please forgive me, I`m in an irreverant mood.
|
|
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Jan 11 2007, 05:40 AM Post #21 |
|
Deleted User
|
Well it may not matter to you (or anyone else out here) but it may matter to future generations that have to unravel precedents that are created in your lifetime. |
|
|
| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 11 2007, 05:56 AM Post #22 |
|
I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
|
hee hee hee. I thankyou for you delightfully ability to make me laugh at myself. |
|
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
![]() |
|
| JeffLynnesBeard | Jan 11 2007, 11:47 AM Post #23 |
|
Administrator & Moderator
|
As far as the internet is concerned, if people are posting things about themselves on youtube, myspace or forums then they should be doing so with the knowledge that anyone, including their employers, are able to see it. You are, in effect, broadcasting yourself on the internet and, if you're not careful about what you put out there, it could come back to haunt you. Once you put something 'out there', thanks to Google cache & the ever-probing 'spiders', even something long deleted can stay around pretty much forever. Even though employers should have absolutely no right to dicate or even comment on what you do in your spare time (with the exception of Icarus' quite reasonable example of jobs which involve safety-critical work forbidding the use of recreational drugs & any alcohol consumption which would lead to you being inxoticated on duty), the fact of the matter is that, if for example, anyone was stupid enough to boast about a serious misconduct at work on the internet, would anyone blame that employer for wanting to take action against that individual? I still agree with Betsy that this art teacher shouldn't have lost his job for his off-duty artistic endeavours, but I wouldn't have thought it inappropriate for the school to call this guy in and remind him that he holds a position of responsibility in the community & should keep his artistic aspirations a little more low-key for the good of the reputation of the school. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
![]() |
|
| silver moondog | Jan 11 2007, 12:23 PM Post #24 |
|
Unregistered
|
How weird, how absurd, how f*cking stupid... they`re firing an art teacher because he just did what true artists are supposed to do? Interesting art is basically always about p*ssing off the mainstream. I guess they would have preferred someone drawing pointless landscapes |
|
|
| Deleted User | Jan 11 2007, 12:50 PM Post #25 |
|
Deleted User
|
One he is not alone in doing this form of art, it has been around for years. Two was he doing this in class or teaching his pupils how to. Three america the land of the free, my arse. Four nothing to stop him from walking into a store anfd buying a gun and blowing away the school board. Five the school board have some really serious problems and maybe they should seek professional help. Six four would be more obscene than painting with your willy or your arse. |
|
|
| Deleted User | Jan 11 2007, 03:13 PM Post #26 |
|
Deleted User
|
Seven all good children go to heaven (to take something completely out of context just to do it!) |
|
|
| JanaW | Jan 11 2007, 07:30 PM Post #27 |
|
To be honest with you...it seems pretty strange to think of someone painting with their butt or their 'willy' but it really is not. It happens more than you think. As was pointed out, body painting has been around for years. Many women smear paint on their bodies and paint canvases this way. I actually say 'Good For You!!' to this teacher. While he may not have intended to make his method of painting known to his students, he has opened up a whole new world of art to these kids. He piqued their interest! They now see that there is more to art than a paint brush...it is about expression. What you use to express youself is less the issue than the fact that you have the ability to create. Quite frankly it's not much different than an author sitting down with a pen and paper and handwriting a book....next thing you knew he was using a typewriter...and then God forbid!...he graduated to a computer! The words are the same, the expression is the same, only the method of delivery is different. |
|
If slaughterhouses had glass walls the whole world would be vegetarian. Linda McCartney | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Jan 12 2007, 02:47 AM Post #28 |
|
Deleted User
|
This is the only thing you need to know here. I don't want a man wearing a mask, smearing his paint-soaked butt and genitals all over a canvas, and then airing it on youtube, to be gainfully employed teaching kids. And interesting art is not about p*ssing off the mainstream. A picture of a urine soaked crucifix is no more "art" than my tallywhacker painted purple would be "art". That is simply shock value. Real art takes talent and creativity, in any medium, be it oil, water color or music. Michaelangelo's David is a remarkably realistic thing of beauty that was hand sculpted. That's the reason it's art and bum painting isn't. |
|
|
| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 12 2007, 02:56 AM Post #29 |
|
I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
|
Well the fact is that bums don`t have opposable thumbs. So making bum art that has something of interest to capture ones imagination and stir the sense might just be a bit more difficult than what one can make with ones hands that can mimik exactly what the human eye can see. You see before the camera was in place the goal of art was to reproduce exactly what the the human eye could see to set down for posterity. It was only after the camera obscura began to be tinkered with that abstract expressions and impressionism and pointilism came on the scene. Man was freed from the need to reproduce exactly what exist in nature based on the human eye and true artistic expression could flourish from not what was seen by the eye but by the mind and those two things are quite different. The fact may be that this mans art may not speak to you but it may speak to someone else. Picasso does nothing for me, but I cream in my jeans everytime I see a Van Gogh. |
|
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Jan 12 2007, 02:57 AM Post #30 |
|
Deleted User
|
Here's the youtube link. It's easy for me to see how a school board would unanimously decide to fire him. Butt Painter |
|
|
| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 12 2007, 03:01 AM Post #31 |
|
I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
|
Chad can you check that link and repost it. The only thing that comes up is the home page with nothing to click on to start any video or whatever is supposed to be there. |
|
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Jan 12 2007, 03:04 AM Post #32 |
|
Deleted User
|
But to me, that ain't talent. Although it may stir the senses of some, (and I'll bet no one here is stirred by it) art without talent is just crappy doodling. My 6 year old's drawings are treasured by Mom and me, but there's no value to them outside the house. Anyone remember the guy years ago who used an enema to insert paint into his rectum and paint like that? Honestly! He did! He turned out truly sh*tty art. :lol: |
|
|
| Deleted User | Jan 12 2007, 03:06 AM Post #33 |
|
Deleted User
|
Hmmm. It works for me. :hmm: Try searching for Stan Murmur. That's the name he uses on the TV show. |
|
|
| Bill | Jan 12 2007, 03:14 AM Post #34 |
|
Do you have a YouTube account Betsy? You have to log in to 'prove' you're over 18. |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
![]() |
|
| Dorfliedot | Jan 12 2007, 03:16 AM Post #35 |
![]()
Beatlelicious
|
I think all men teacher should get naked.
Only with me of course..
|
![]() Add Glitter to your Photos | |
![]() |
|
| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 12 2007, 03:18 AM Post #36 |
|
I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
|
Hahahaha, you are so right Chad but that is what art is all about. It is about people who are willing to take a risk and flaunt the accepted norms of their particular era. Most artist are never commercially successful until they die. What does that say about the rest of us. The people that are here and alive that should have some conviction or attitude about whatevger it is that stirs us and propels us to move forward in our own ordinary lives insprired in some small degree by what these people who were laughed at during their own lifetime. You know most of us here on this board have a get out of jail free card, because I would wager top dollar that almost everyone on this board is here because we were called to the power of the art and the gift that Beatles produced and that was art too. Van Gogh only sold one painting during the course of his entire life, and he is a brilliant artist and I defy anyone to say he wasn`t. In my travels across this planet over the last few years there was not a continent that I did not visit that I saw the work of this man proudly displayed. Even in Asia!! Now that boggles the mind does it not that this man who made paintings out of smears and thick stoggie strokes that the masters of his day were appalled to see but he always managed to evoke an emotion in every piece he produced. Maybe it appeals to me because I am blind as a bat and without my double dose of contacts and glasses that I have to wear together I wouldn`t even be able to see the nose on my face. hehehe So having the benefit of history and knowing what people endured to leave such wonderful beautiful things for the rest of us to be enriched by long after they are gone, who am I to run a teacher out of a job just because I might not like the fact that he paints with his ass. The question in my opinion has to be is he painting with his ass in front of kindergarten kids. We have not been given that info have we? At least I haven`t read it yet if he did. |
|
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
![]() |
|
| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 12 2007, 03:25 AM Post #37 |
|
I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
|
No , I do not have a youtube account but this is the first time that I have not been able to click on a youtube link on this board and not have a video load. :angry: |
|
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Jan 12 2007, 04:45 AM Post #38 |
|
Deleted User
|
Yeah ... imagine Tolstoy writing 'War and Peace' by merely dipping his 'willy' in the ink well. :rolleyes: Real high art. :lol: :lol: Obviously my mood has shifted somewhat.
|
|
|
| Deleted User | Jan 12 2007, 05:07 AM Post #39 |
|
Deleted User
|
I still can't quite believe that you're soooooooo very into this subject 'theonlyfabfan' ... maybe you should be on his defense team or something (I myself have absolutely no problem if that school board found the whole thing tasteless ... but I've already provided more than enough serious dialog on the matter). By the way ... almost that entire posting I pulled left me in tears, I was laughing so very much. The 'blind as a bat' comment made me think of Joe Piscopo and Eddie Murphy doing their rendition of 'Ebony and Ivory' on SNL (as I stated I was in tears at the time that I ended up coming to that sentence, so forgive me if that comes across the wrong way). I can't find the direct link to that skit ... but I did find the transcripts: http://snltranscripts.jt.org/81/81tebonyivory.phtml Man I hope that doesn't come across the wrong way, I stopped crying at this point. |
|
|
| JanaW | Jan 12 2007, 07:20 AM Post #40 |
|
Well the fact of the matter is, one mans art is another mans garbage. Just like one mans garbage is another mans treasure. We are all so different that different things appeal to different people. I don't think I would particularly want it. Not because of how it was painted, but because that is not they type of art that appeals to me. Quite frankly, the only reason I would purchase of Pauls McCartney's paintings is because he had painted it and because it will most certainly go up in value because of his notariety in music. I don't care for abstract art. Now, if it were French Impressionist that would be a different story. It all comes down to who the piece of art appeals to, and obviously not only does his art appear to appeal to people (at $900 per...) the value just went up because his notariety went up. The school system may have done him a favor! |
|
If slaughterhouses had glass walls the whole world would be vegetarian. Linda McCartney | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Jan 12 2007, 08:00 AM Post #41 |
|
Deleted User
|
Well now Jana I couldn't agree more with you on all of that, it was one of my first thought actually. Especially the last part you mentioned ... that due to the nature of that field all of this attention is bound to have an impact upon his stature on some level. Some folks are really into deviant art ... yeah, we could go back and forth about whether that in fact is what we're talking about. In my opinion it is ... and I also thought that what Chad stated earlier about this being more about 'shock value' than much else was a rather good point. I also wouldn't necessarily ever be in the market for this kind of art (I could get flippant about how I phrased that, but it's late ... and I'm about to retire for the night, so why start something now on it that I might not actually be interested in following up). Ultimately this guy has the chance to turn this into an advantage. It's really up to him to see that through ... if he does then whatever (once again I probably don't care too much) if he doesn't then at the very least he did end up getting some of us to put our thinking caps on and come up with some interesting commentary about the whole thing, and I think we learned a little about each other in the process too insomuch as how many varying feelings the subject elicited. Now the 'work' (if you could call it that, I'm still a little uncertain about that) may not be of interest, but the dialog about the work may in fact be as close as the guy comes to generating anything near what art is suppose to do ... which is make the audience think. Or at least that's one of the things it's prone to do. |
|
|
| Deleted User | Jan 12 2007, 08:43 AM Post #42 |
|
Deleted User
|
I thought that perhaps I should mention that when I was referencing my amusement at that stuff a few posts back I wasn't actually laughing at any of you (per se), but more at the many ways the subject itself could be described when left to all these opposing sides of the issue. The manner in which the discussion had continued to shift back-and-forth and the types of angles that people were coming up with to express themselves was pretty entertaining to me at the time I wrote that. Just wanted to clarify that. |
|
|
| theonlyfab4fan | Jan 12 2007, 12:48 PM Post #43 |
|
I AM THE BIGGEST JOHN FAN!
|
Icarus I find it funny that you made a point to question my interest and passion on this topic and you have posted as much if not more in this thread than I have :rolleyes: I am pleased I was able to give you a good laugh and I saw the Joe and Eddie skit the first time it ever aired and it was funny then and is funny now. The reason I feel the need to defend this mans art is not because it is necessarily good art but art is still art and if that is the only reason he was relieved of his job then that was wrong in my opinion. Jana is right though. The school system probably unknowingly did him a favor at least for a little while anyway. |
|
You say you want to save humanity but it`s people that you just can`t stand John came to me in a dream and this is what he said. "I had a vision of a man on a flaming pie, and he told me that Betsy with a B not Lisa with a L is the biggest fan of mine". John trumps 'the boss' ! I WAS ROBBED BY THAT DEVIL WOMAN | |
![]() |
|
| Sandra | Jan 12 2007, 12:49 PM Post #44 |
|
That's what I wasn't clear about whether he was printing copies of his bum onto canvas which would very soon lose its novelty value. Or whether he was using his bum to create something original and unique like some of the artists in this link http://www.mfpa.co.uk/ If so it should be applauded. Art is about pushing the boundaries doing something new and creative, In any case whether the teacher should lose his job for something he did/does in his own time, that isn't illegal, then I would have to say definitely not. I think that is a very worrying precedent. We were very fortunate with teachers when I was at school and many of them voluntarily gave their time to help the kids interests in something other than their academic subject. As a result we had the maths and science teacher taking drama activities, the chemistry teacher leading a photography group the geography teacher coached the football team The french teacher would facilitate religious discussions and the biology teacher would take us camping and bird watching. They were fantastic teachers who were really interested in the kids they taught. The less academic kids could relate to them on a different level. The boundaries were never crossed though when it was time to talk chemistry photography didn't have a look in. Some of the interests I still have many years later were fostered by these teachers desire to share their knowledge and expand the horizons of young people and not just do the job they were paid to do. |
| <a href='http://eapr-1/@0@Sandra@1@Edinburgh%2C%20Scotland@' target='_blank'></a> | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Jan 12 2007, 02:47 PM Post #45 |
|
Deleted User
|
Even the boundaries of decency? Where's the talent in that? Taking the low road doesn't neccessarily mean you are pushing the limits. |
|
|
| Bill | Jan 12 2007, 02:56 PM Post #46 |
|
Has anyone explored the possibility that maybe he was let go because his paintings just aren't very good, regardless of how the paint got on the canvas? |
| Put a puppet on it. | |
![]() |
|
| Merry | Jan 12 2007, 03:07 PM Post #47 |
|
I watched the video and noticed that it was labeled as "Comedy"...his disguise was kind of humorous considering the method he uses to do his "art". Anyhow, I personally don't care what the man does on his own time or other people's tastes. If they see what he does a true expression of his artist ability, well...good for them, personally it doesn't appeal to me. They are abstract renditions of butterflies and bullrushes, and to me nothing outstanding (excuse the pun). I think his losing his job because of it was wrong, but it has worked in his favor bringing attention to something that would probably cause nary a ripple in the art world, ordinarily. It's all for the shock value. I don't think he is particularly talented, just trying to bring attention to himself. He isn't the first and surely won't be the last. Merry
|
|
| |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Jan 12 2007, 03:47 PM Post #48 |
|
Deleted User
|
Absolutely, Merry! The guy's taking a p*ss and getting rich in the process! Don't grieve for his job, he's pulling in loads of cash right now. |
|
|
| Deleted User | Jan 12 2007, 04:31 PM Post #49 |
|
Deleted User
|
Yeah ... I was being cheeky with that statement back there, 'cause I was fully aware of how much of these pages were filled with my own musing on it. I'm glad you all were able to make me laugh yesterday evening too, it was a very up and down day for me and it was nice to find myself doing that at that point. So thanks all. Chad I can see your cartoon (you'd asked earlier) and I really do find myself enjoying that series more and more as you post these things. (Thanks! ).
|
|
|
| Deleted User | Jan 12 2007, 08:43 PM Post #50 |
|
Deleted User
|
I'm glad you can see them, Icarus! By the way, THAT is art!
|
|
|
![]() Join the millions that use us for their forum communities. Create your own forum today. Learn More · Register for Free |
|
| « Previous Topic · Things We Said Today · Next Topic » |






... and now he's having his day in the limelight. Thinking that signing his works with the name 'Murmer' is a little funny too by the way (I mean he must do that wouldn't you think?).





somewhat.
Merry
).

2:00 PM Jul 11