| This is an archived forum, so it is here for read-only purposes only. We are not accepting new members and members cannot post any longer. Members can, however, access their old private messages. Strawberry Fields was open from 2006 until 2011. There is a Strawberry Fields Beatles Forum on Facebook. If you are registered with Facebook, join us at the group there! |
| The Gray Squirrel Cull; What do you think? | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 29 2006, 03:24 PM (513 Views) | |
| Deleted User | Aug 29 2006, 03:24 PM Post #1 |
|
Deleted User
|
Gray Squirrel Cull ![]() Conservationalists who wish to help preserve the UK native red squirrel have convinced the government to have thousands of gray squirrels killed. This will cost taxpayers 1 million pounds. The red squirrel has once become extinct and thanks to a re-introduction 200 years ago it survives in this country to this day. It is believed that the Gray Squirrel, which was brought to this country from North America, is passing a virus onto the Red Squirrels, thus diminishing their population. The same Conservationalists have also secured over 3 million pounds of taxpayer money to cull all Ruddy Ducks because they breed with the White Headed Duck and as such contaminate the bloodline. This cull has the full support of the Wildfowl & Wetlands Trust and Royal Society for the Protection of Birds. How do you feel about the Gray Squirrel Cull? |
|
|
| MaccasGirl | Aug 29 2006, 03:42 PM Post #2 |
|
Born To Be Wild
|
I think this is very sad as well as expensive. Couldn't they just trap them and remove them from the areas where the red squirrels are? Also expensive, I suppose. |
|
And in the end...The love you take..Is equal to the love you make. | |
![]() |
|
| bluemeanie | Aug 29 2006, 11:00 PM Post #3 |
|
is now a happily married woman x
|
Well this is a topic I know very well from my best mate who for her PhD at University looked at the way red squirrels were affected by their 'grey cousins'. The grey squirrels do have a virus and from mixing with red squirrels can cause them to die
the red squirrels cannot defend this virus from their systems
my friend developed a vaccine which was proven to fight the virus in red squirrels but no-body would fund her to continue this research and therefore she couldn't do anymore about it
here in the UK, there are only certain towns of which have red squirrels within their area but because there are more grey squirrels than red and grey can roam anywhere, that is why the red is becoming more extinct
because of my knowledge from my friend about this subject I give them the go-ahead for this cull - others may not agree but to save from extinction the red squirrel I fully agree with it |
|
Jayne x is loving life and is so happy xxx | |
![]() |
|
| JeffLynnesBeard | Aug 30 2006, 08:38 AM Post #4 |
|
Administrator & Moderator
|
Surely if they cull the Grey squirrel, it's only delaying the inevitable? They'll have to cull the Greys year after year and that's not a sustainable answer. Conservation & vaccination is the answer, if it's the viral infection killing them off. Culling is lazy, expensive, short-term and inhumane. |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
![]() |
|
| MaccasGirl | Aug 30 2006, 05:48 PM Post #5 |
|
Born To Be Wild
|
I agree with you, Andy. The culling will go on and on. Vaccinating sounds like a humane solution, but I wonder about the expense of that, too. We have 40 acres of hardwood trees and lots of squirrels. We only had red squirrels up until about 2 years ago when the greys started appearing. The reds and the greys don't get along and they fight. I don't know if we have the virus in our squirrels here or not. I also don't know if our red squirrels are like the ones you have in the UK. I'm not trying to make light of the situation but here's a picture of one in the backyard. Sorry I can't seem to reduce the size. ![]() Isn't he cute? He's all sacked out from raiding the bird feeder :lol: |
|
And in the end...The love you take..Is equal to the love you make. | |
![]() |
|
| bluemeanie | Aug 31 2006, 12:13 AM Post #6 |
|
is now a happily married woman x
|
grey squirrels in this country are allowed to roam anywhere - whereas they try to keep red's in special reserves so they cannot mix. of course you all know that is very hard to do
my friends thesis for her Phd (ok I didn't fully understand because it was all micro-biology and equations and over 10,000 pages & stuff) explained how her vaccination worked but of course it gave her research and background on why red's die & luckily she did tell me in 'laymans' terms about what happens when the 2 come together and how the virus the grey have affects the red. the university she (still) works at put together a funding bid to further develop the vaccine but no-one would fund her she proved through her thesis and work that the vaccine can stop this put the national trust wouldn't fund it
red squirrels are a protected species, if no-one will spend the amount of money to save them through vaccines - how else can we protect them ???? |
|
Jayne x is loving life and is so happy xxx | |
![]() |
|
| JeffLynnesBeard | Aug 31 2006, 12:27 AM Post #7 |
|
Administrator & Moderator
|
Vaccines will ensure the long term survival of the species whereas the cull will only give short term protection as the Greys will quickly & easily breed, then we'll be back to square one. Does it seem crazy that they're willing to throw £1 million at the cull, but won't fund the vaccine - or is it just me? |
| ...and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. | |
![]() |
|
| maccascruff | Aug 31 2006, 01:07 AM Post #8 |
|
Sing the Changes
|
For me, any cull is sad and I wish there was a better way to accomplish what they are trying to do. I know my dad hates the squirrels in his yard and my boyfriend does, too. The squirrels damage the trees, to the point of killing them. Neither can do anything about the squirrels because they live in cities. I don't know what they'd do if they lived in a rural area. I agree that they should try the vaccine first before spending that kind of money. |
![]() |
|
| scottycatt | Sep 1 2006, 01:50 AM Post #9 |
|
I've never understood man's need to intervene and stop the course of nature. Who are we to decide which animals live and which ones should die??
|
|
Why? | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Sep 1 2006, 02:07 PM Post #10 |
|
Deleted User
|
Thank you for all the responses.
The way I feel about this is that it is a ridiculous display of favoritism. I don't believe it is possible to kill every last gray squirrel and if they are a strong breed they will make a comeback. What's done is done. The introduction of grays to this country is not something which can be taken back and now to take it out on an innocent creature is wrong. Bev is right. We cannot play God here. Are we going to have this attitude about every animal? 'We really love otters so we are going to take out every other animal that interferes with it.' Where would it end? The truth is, we are partly to blame for the drop in red squirrels numbers. Maybe the thing we need to focus on is not the damage that some little gray fluffy thing is causing, but rather the damage that we are causing. We would have a much easier time of controlling our own actions than those of mother nature. She has a plan. Let her fulfill it. Meanwhile, hunting and habitat destruction come to mind. I do not support an ethnic cleansing, which is what this cull and the previous ruddy duck cull are all about. It is like killing off a race of humans so that they won't interbreed or interfere with another and that sounds all too familiar to me. Surely disliking the possible outcome of this situation is a far worse reason to kill off another type of animal than simply having a virus which can affect other animals. Either way, one type of squirrels is going to die. Why should we get to decide who goes and who stays? What superior hypocrites we can be. I understand that some people may feel a bit of patriotism towards the red squirrels (at least I know that willingness to kill one animal to save another is not about ethics, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation) and if that is so important to them, I hope they work to make sure the millions of pounds intended to be spent on the killing of innocent squirrels goes towards the relocation of them. The gray squirrels may not be native but they are now a well-loved and well-established part of the UK and we have no right to disturb the evolution of wildlife. |
|
|
| scottycatt | Sep 4 2006, 12:07 AM Post #11 |
|
BRILLIANT post, Fiona!!! You are a wonderful spokesperson for all the creatures who cannot speak for themselves. We need to get you front and center to spread this philosophy to the rest of the world!! Paul McCartney, are you listening??
|
|
Why? | |
![]() |
|
| DCBeatle64 | Sep 4 2006, 12:48 AM Post #12 |
|
Wings nutter
|
This is another fault which had been caused through our history.From what I can remember grey squirrels were introduced from North America in something like the late 19th century because of the British being impressed by the creature.Oh boy the effects of empires and imperialism and the such like.Although I may be wrong. Anyway obviously actions from the past have again caused problems for our present and future.It appears to me that the Government are trying to come up with a simple way of balancing out the numbers between the two different species but its clearly not sustainable and sustainability is what the world need to look at now for the future of this planet otherwise we are going to have even bigger issues than we do today. Not only is it the virus in the grey squirrels that we have to protect the red squirrel from however but its the difference in size and methods of findng food.The grey species are more adapt to fighting off their red counterparts thats another reason for the 66 to 1 inbalance.This has always been an issue for wildlife as its the stongest which survive a they manage to get the food thats why some creatures are in certain areas and not others,but as soon as they are integreted then it causes a bit of a problem. Its a really complex situation whilst culling does appear to be a good idea it doesnt account for the long term but just appears as a quick-fix solution for an issue which we created over 100 years ago.I mean grey squirrels were initially massively out numbered by red squirrels so culling is not going to stop that happening again as they can easily recreate that. What I always find odd is that they are willing to pay alot of money for an unsustainable killing spree whereas they seem reluctant to cough up money to look into the situation and find a more effective way of dealing with it instead of brushing it off for a year.We really cant go on that way. |
|
I'm a BIGGER Beatles fan than you and I'm an even BIGGER Wings fan than that... 'You're a Paul McCartney fan? No you're a Wings fan'. 'Thankyou Scotland' Ho Hey Ho... ![]() I am the buttplug goo goo goo joob | |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Sep 4 2006, 02:15 AM Post #13 |
|
Deleted User
|
I wish! But thank you. I think it takes more than just passion to be successful in the field of animal care (like knowing how not to get pigeons killed
) and of course there is the small fact that I am much better at expressing myself from behind a screen... This is one of the nicest things anyone could say to me, though.
|
|
|
| BeatleBarb | Sep 4 2006, 03:45 PM Post #14 |
![]()
|
I agree that the cull sounds like a short term remedy. Why not take the humane road if both options will cost money? I don't agree with the altering of nature, unless absolutely necessary. The vaccination method is surely a better option. And Fiona....you speak so eloquently about such matters. |
![]() |
|
| Peter | Sep 4 2006, 11:07 PM Post #15 |
|
Unregistered
|
give Tufty a gun so he can shoot Wirral. Repatriate the buggers and if they don't want to leave shoot them. ummmm am i on the right broad and is this what they call an out of the body experience. |
|
|
| King_Kameamea | Sep 18 2006, 06:45 PM Post #16 |
|
Unregistered
|
Amen JLB.
|
|
|
| bluemeanie | Dec 8 2007, 06:31 PM Post #17 |
|
is now a happily married woman x
|
this is disturbing
Lethal virus could wipe out Sefton’s red squirrels Dec 6 2007 by Liam Murphy, Liverpool Daily Post FEARS are growing that a virus deadly to red squirrels could wipe out the population in parts of the Sefton woodland. Last night, 11 red squirrels were confirmed dead on and around National Trust land and it is suspected there could be many more. Squirrel Pox Virus is spread by grey squirrels. They are not affected by the disease, but it is usually fatal if passed on to their red cousins. Andrew Brockbank, property manager for the National Trust at Freshfield in Formby, said it was “very worrying” for the estimated 200 red squirrels in that area. In the past three weeks, 11 red squirrels have been discovered with the pox. At least two are probably infected but hiding away. Not all infected squirrels are found. Mr Brockbank said: “When they become infected, they usually hide away in the undergrowth”. He added: “We are fortunate in having a number of volunteers helping out and there has been a huge demand for traps to help control the population of grey squirrels.” But Mr Brockbank insisted it was “not all doom and gloom” and added: “Even elsewhere where the pox virus has occurred, there has been recovery. “Maybe the population goes down to a low level but it comes back again, and our woodland is being carefully managed with the red squirrels’ needs in mind. “Provided we can maintain even a low level of red squirrel population, they can come back. There is hope but it will require considerable effort.” Across the coastal woodland area of Sefton there are estimated to be around 800-1,000 red squirrels and, while the numbers of greys had appeared to increase, sightings have dipped recently. Steve White, conservation officer for Lancashire Wildlife Trust, said around 60% of the grey squirrels tested have been found to carry the virus antibodies, making the need to control their population more important that ever. However, information about the illness remains limited, with no clear understanding of how the virus is transmitted. All that can be done to control it is to remove grey squirrels and infected reds. But he said whole populations have been wiped out by the illness in the past and added: “It’s a desperate situation and difficult to keep your spirits up. “We have to keep battling away and hope we can find a solution, but whether that will be in time is anyone’s guess.” IF YOU want to volunteer to help the regular searches for sick squirrels, or to report sightings of grey squirrels in the Sefton area, call 0151 920 3769. |
|
Jayne x is loving life and is so happy xxx | |
![]() |
|
| DCBeatle64 | Dec 8 2007, 10:21 PM Post #18 |
|
Wings nutter
|
This has always been an issue and shows why humans shouldnt mess with nature coz it causes more problems in the long run |
|
I'm a BIGGER Beatles fan than you and I'm an even BIGGER Wings fan than that... 'You're a Paul McCartney fan? No you're a Wings fan'. 'Thankyou Scotland' Ho Hey Ho... ![]() I am the buttplug goo goo goo joob | |
![]() |
|
| Kay | Dec 9 2007, 12:31 AM Post #19 |
![]()
|
That's sad, I hope they can save the squirrels. We only have grey squirrels round where I live, and hundreds of them. I went to Denmark earlier this year and it was fascinating seeing loads of red squirrels while we were there. Humans have a lot to answer for unfortunately. A few years ago some well meaning 'do-gooders' raided a mink farm near where my Mum lives. They were obviously being kept for their fur, but while that's wrong, releasing them has caused even more problems. Basically the mink are now living wild in an area which is not their natural habitat. They are breeding like mad and killing off lots of birds, ducks etc. which is upsetting the balance of nature. |
![]() |
|
| clare | Dec 10 2007, 12:59 PM Post #20 |
|
There are areas I believe where red squirrels thrive in the UK. I was half watching a nature a few weeks back, and it featured a brief section on how in a particular type of woodland (I think it was pine) the grey squirrels can't survive, but the red do. As long as there are pockets of forest like this, then the red squirrels can be saved. Probably never in as great a number as their grey cousins, but certainly saved from extinction in the wild. |
| "Love as thou wilt" | |
![]() |
|
| « Previous Topic · Things We Said Today · Next Topic » |







the red squirrels cannot defend this virus from their systems


) and of course there is the small fact that I am much better at expressing myself from behind a screen... This is one of the nicest things anyone could say to me, though.



2:22 PM Jul 11