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| Christian Bible: Valid? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 4 2009, 03:08 AM (856 Views) | |
| Yowming41 | Jun 14 2009, 06:14 PM Post #21 |
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If, like me, you believe the Bible to be divinely inspired, then you'd be able to accept the writings coming years after the times of Jesus's life, ect. God doesn't get old and forget things even if the disciples did. Black, you mention laughing as though this is something 'not Godly', or am I mistaken? |
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| Eddie | Jun 15 2009, 12:09 AM Post #22 |
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That's great that God knows these things, but we don't. For all we know, there could be scriptures saying that Jesus is a complete fake, but they are not included in the bible because they tarnish the religion. Could that scripture conflict and make the others untrue? Possibly. |
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| Yowming41 | Jun 15 2009, 03:43 PM Post #23 |
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It wouldn't exactly make sense to have scriptures detailing Jesus's life and the miracles he performed and then have other scriptures that said "Jesus is a complete fake." That would be...dumb. |
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| Eddie | Jun 15 2009, 04:32 PM Post #24 |
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How can they detail his life if they leave out parts that could be critical? If there were times where he tried to do a "miracle" and it failed, that's pretty important, don't you think? There's no way something like that would make it into the bible if it tarnished the religion. |
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| Blackt3ars | Jun 15 2009, 07:32 PM Post #25 |
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Well, for an instance, I would like to know what happened to the part from his younger years to about 30? There isn't a single canonical gospel that mentions anything about this period. I would assume that anyone assembling the New Testament would have added at least one thing about this part of his life, because it seems pretty significant. I'm not looking for an explanation (aimed at you yow), I simply want to express some things that make me question the Bible. |
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| Yowming41 | Jun 16 2009, 07:35 PM Post #26 |
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Doggy, I guess that depends on what you believe. I believe that Jesus is the Son of God. God gave him the power to perform miracles. If he was doing a miracle, he didn't fail. It wouldn't make sense for him to perform some amazing miracles, like turning water into wine, and then fail at others. God gave him the power to perform all his miracles, and none of them 'failed'. Black, you didn't ask for an explanation, but I'mma give one anyways. This is mainly my opinion, but to me, the most important things about Jesus' earthly life were his ministry and his death and resurrection. Perhaps details about his younger life weren't that important, or not enough to go into the Bible. I'm not saying they were unimportant, just not needed. I found a site that explains a few of the verses that do describe Jesus' early life, http://www.elite.net/~ebedyah/PastorsSite/gospels/luke2-21-52.htm You might find that interesting. |
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| Eddie | Jun 16 2009, 09:12 PM Post #27 |
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Just read over this again... you sure about that? Genesis chapter 17, verse 12: And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised. In this passage God understands that people buy other people and, quite obviously, is comfortable with the concept. God wants slaves circumcised in the same way as non-slaves. Exodus chapter 12 verse 43: The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, "These are the regulations for the Passover: No foreigner is to eat of it. Any slave you have bought may eat of it after you have circumcised him, but a temporary resident and a hired worker may not eat of it. God again shows that he is completely comfortable with the concept of slavery and singles out slaves for special treatment. Exodus Chapter 21, verse 1: Now these are the ordinances which you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,' then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for life. Here God describes how to become a slave for life, and shows that it is completely acceptable to separate slaves from their families. God also shows that he completely endorses the branding of slaves through mutilation. Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20: If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. Not only does God condone slavery, but he is also completely comfortable with the concept of beating your slaves, as long as you don't kill them. Exodus Chapter 21, verse 32: If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull must be stoned. Not only does God condone slavery, but here God places a value on slaves -- 30 shekels of silver. Note that God is not sophisticated enough to understand the concept of inflation. It is now 3,000 years later, and a gored slave is still worth 30 shekels of silver according to God's word. Leviticus Chapter 22, verse 10: No one outside a priest's family may eat the sacred offering, nor may the guest of a priest or his hired worker eat it. But if a priest buys a slave with money, or if a slave is born in his household, that slave may eat his food. Here God shows that the children of slaves are slaves themselves, and that he is completely happy with that concept. Leviticus Chapter 25, verse 44: Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. Here God states where you may purchase your slaves, and clearly specifies that slaves are property to be bought, sold and handed down. Luke, Chapter 7, verse 2: Now a centurion had a slave who was dear to him, who was sick and at the point of death. When he heard of Jesus, he sent to him elders of the Jews, asking him to come and heal his slave. And when they came to Jesus, they besought him earnestly, saying, "He is worthy to have you do this for him, for he loves our nation, and he built us our synagogue." And Jesus went with them. When he was not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying to him, "Lord, do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you come under my roof; therefore I did not presume to come to you. But say the word, and let my servant be healed. For I am a man set under authority, with soldiers under me: and I say to one, 'Go,' and he goes; and to another, 'Come,' and he comes; and to my slave, 'Do this,' and he does it." When Jesus heard this he marveled at him, and turned and said to the multitude that followed him, "I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith." And when those who had been sent returned to the house, they found the slave well. Here Jesus shows that he is completely comfortable with the concept of slavery. Jesus heals the slave without any thought of freeing the slave or admonishing the slave's owner. Colossians, chapter 3, verse 22: Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but in singleness of heart, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, work heartily... Here God shows that he is in complete acceptance of a slave's position, and encourages slaves to work hard. This sentiment is repeated in Titus, chapter 2 verse 9: Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to be refractory, nor to pilfer, but to show entire and true fidelity. Once again God shows that he is quite enamored of slavery. source If Christianity was not made to control slaves, why the hell would a loving god have this in the bible? You may find this site interesting Yow, it proves that nearly every aspect of the Christian religion is fake... link. Seriously, spend an hour and read over it. |
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| Yowming41 | Jun 17 2009, 04:21 PM Post #28 |
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Doggy, probably to your surprise, I did read through all 50 'proofs'. However I found that most of them rely on a misunderstanding of Christianity and the Bible. They mention prayer about a thousand times and act as if, if you ask God to do a simple 'miracle' and it doesn't happen, that proves God doesn't exist. If you want to speak with the Queen of England, you come on her terms, she doesn't come on yours. The Bible doesn't say that any random prayer you ask will be responded to with an "Ok, here you go." As for your slavery issues, I found this site: http://www.abercrombie.cc/ds/q1109/q1109.html It explains a lot of the times the Bible speaks of slavery and whether or not that means that God is actually condoning it. You should find it interesting. |
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| Eddie | Jun 18 2009, 08:46 PM Post #29 |
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But, why would god put a price on slaves? Clearly, if god didn't like slavery, he would have said it was wrong in the book instead of allowing it under certain condition. It's obvious whoever wrote the book didn't have a strong opposition to slavery. Edited by Eddie, Jun 18 2009, 08:48 PM.
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| Yowming41 | Jun 19 2009, 06:58 PM Post #30 |
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The website in question makes the case that the slavery of Biblical times was more humane than the common slavery talked about today, with the African people. It states somewhere in there that slaves were often treated as members of the household and did have rights granted to them. |
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| Eddie | Jun 20 2009, 01:25 AM Post #31 |
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But does that make it just? Why would God want his people to have a pricetag? And back in the 1800's, while some slaves had it horrible, there were a lot that lived a life as modern day nannies. Does that mean that slavery is acceptable under certain conditions? |
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| Saj_61 | Jun 20 2009, 01:58 AM Post #32 |
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Lets face it slaves are never equal to their masters. Whether it be nowadays or back then. Totally goes against what religion says that 'everyone is equal'. You know who I think we should all pray to? Joe Pesci!!! (George Carlin FTW) :D |
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| Yowming41 | Jun 27 2009, 10:42 PM Post #33 |
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First of all, if you wondered, I got back from a 6 day camp today, so obviously I haven't posted in about a week or so. I see your point, Doggy. You mean to say that slavery is evil (well, whatever you think 'evil' is- because you can't know for sure) no matter the good/bad conditions. Here's more from that site on why God talks about slavery and what his people should do about it. "Remember, too, at that time no nation had the ability to deal with people who had gotten themselves hopelessly in debt. So they were allowed to sell themselves into slavery (often temporarily) in exchange for release from their financial obligations (Ex. 21:2-4; Lev. 25:39-43; Dt. 15:12). Finally, we must interpret the permission of slave purchase as stated in Leviticus 25:44-46 in the light of the culture and accompanying revelation. The situation was such that the Israelites could not abolish the slave trade. Therefore, although God permitted them to buy slaves, He gave them a series of moral-spiritual reminders and a set of civil regulations that were designed to guarantee the humane treatment of all slaves, whether captured or purchased." Edited by Yowming41, Jun 28 2009, 03:46 AM.
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| Mr Master52 | Jun 28 2009, 08:16 PM Post #34 |
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A question to all non-believers: What event that doesn't involve divine happenings (like God appearance etc) would change your mind about the Bible? We can argue all we want, but the fact is that, for example, brave men wrote down a biography of someone really close to them. Why wouldn't it be valid? |
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| Saj_61 | Jun 29 2009, 10:16 AM Post #35 |
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So your telling me that if there was only good things written about someone that you wouldn't question it what so ever? So if my best friends wrote a book about me only saying good things then you would just believe that I only do good things? |
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| Yowming41 | Jun 29 2009, 02:55 PM Post #36 |
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You're a normal human being, Saj, so no, I wouldn't believe that you do only good things. No one does only good things, except Jesus. That sounds silly and prejudiced coming from me, but Jesus claimed to be the Son of God who can do no evil, giving us a reason to believe he doesn't do evil. There's nothing about what Jesus did wrong because he didn't do any wrong. |
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| Saj_61 | Jun 30 2009, 10:22 AM Post #37 |
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The only proof you have that Jesus is the son of god is the bible. Anyone could have written a book about someone claiming to be the son of god, its not hard. Not to meantion they could make a fortune from it. Edited by Saj_61, Jun 30 2009, 10:25 AM.
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| Yowming41 | Jul 1 2009, 01:39 PM Post #38 |
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The Bible is a very, very long book, and quite detailed in many places. It would either take prior knowledge or years of work and conspiracy to create it, and it would look different if people just 'made it up.' True events are recorded in the Bible. The disciples never claimed to be brilliant or extraordinary. They were ordinary, plain men of their day. What made them special was their experiences with Jesus. Would they really have known all the history recorded in the Old Testament or the prophecies made throughout the Bible by themselves? And I don't think they would have written a book like that to get themselves rich or famous. Sure, they could have had that reason, but it would have been dumb. All, except one I believe, of the disciples were slaughtered for their faith. Being a Christian back then was not an easy life. And yet the disciples stuck to their stories. I wonder why?
Edited by Yowming41, Jul 1 2009, 01:46 PM.
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| Saj_61 | Jul 2 2009, 11:58 AM Post #39 |
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According to the dates it did take years to write, 40 years being the shortest amount of time. The bible compared to the Harry Potter books is tiny and the Harry Potter books took what 16/17 years, so 40 years minimum is easily enough time to write the bible. Also they stuck to their stories because it makes a hell of a lot of money and don't try and deny that it rakes in billions every year. |
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| Mr Master52 | Jul 2 2009, 02:33 PM Post #40 |
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So, if they were after money, why the hell did they sacrifice themselves for God then? |
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