| You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Just follow the on screen instructions and you'll have an account in no time! Join our community! (click here) We hope you enjoy your visit. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Someone loves you. | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 5 2008, 03:30 AM (3,175 Views) | |
| Joe | Sep 5 2008, 10:29 PM Post #221 |
|
:]
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
When you can prove to me i'll be safe forever, then i may listen :) |
![]() |
|
| Miyagi30 | Sep 5 2008, 10:47 PM Post #222 |
|
Boss Monster Expert
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I belive a god exists, I dont need proof, I have had certain things that ive prayed for come true... --- If you dont want to belive in a god, I have nothing against you..Science is great, evolution is completely true (some of it is), i mean...fish arn't our ancestors, but monkeys are possible. --- But my main point is this, Why NOT belive in a god, if you are right you go to heaven and life is great. If you are stubbern and dont, then things go bad. But if you are wrong and this is no god, then there is no consequences? So its only positive, christians live a happier life (its proven) due to the fact that they belive jesus-god is always around and there for them when they need them. --- Im up for any questions |
![]() |
|
| Miyagi30 | Sep 5 2008, 10:49 PM Post #223 |
|
Boss Monster Expert
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
We cannot prove to you anything. But like I said above, why not. You might not WANT to belive in a god, but if you do, there is nothing wrong with it... |
![]() |
|
| Bunni Killer | Sep 6 2008, 02:04 AM Post #224 |
|
Novice DIY'er
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
While I don't have anything against Christians (again, if it works for you, I can be nothing but happy), but this particular line of reasoning is based on flawed assumptions. First, there's the assumption that the existence of God mandates the existence of a God that needs worship. An omniscient being may not require validation from its own creations. Insecurity is a human emotion, and if we're going to ascribe human emotions to God, who's to say that God couldn't get offended at such presumptuous creations? Second, there's the assumption that there are only two outcomes: the Christian God, or no god at all. There are countless (literally, considering obscure tribal religions and cults), countless denominations within each of those, and even more that have ceased to exist. Add that many of those consider themselves the only true religion--and other religions sure to be damned--and (theoretically, of course) remaining uncommitted might be the safest choice. At least then you aren't worshiping a powerful god's rival. Finally, there's the assumption of a necessary connection between belief, worship, and organized worship. Humans are flawed, so even if the basis is good, the institution can (again, theoretically) be flawed as well. Finally, even if someone were to tell themselves belief was the best thing, it wouldn't necessarily follow. If pI were to discover tomorrow that people who believe in aliens have lower blood pressure--or better grades, or less divorces, or whatever particular benefit appeals--I still couldn't force myself to believe in them. At least, not on that alone. |
![]() |
|
| Mr Master52 | Sep 6 2008, 07:41 AM Post #225 |
![]()
Elephant :O!
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Then start choosing Bunni, in Christianity the only way to go to heaven is to accept Jesus Christ in your heart, if you choose another God OR are atheists, it's the same, you just won't go to heaven. The worse thing of all is rejecting salvation. THEN you are reeeally in trouble...and believe in all the other religions. None that I know of has a rule "Only believe in this God!". If God is true, don't you think that He wanted you to only believe in him? Isn't that, like you say, "logical"? And to your thing on the worship: God made the men to his own figure, we are a bit of God in ourselves, He said us to become masters of all the animals and that was only possible due to his "hand" in the evolutional process. |
![]() |
|
| Yowming41 | Sep 6 2008, 12:26 PM Post #226 |
![]()
Advanced DIY'er
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
"only possible"? How is it that the almighty God of the universe couldn't just command men and creatures to come to life and they would? I don't think God 'needed' evolution at all. |
![]() |
|
| Blackt3ars | Sep 6 2008, 02:30 PM Post #227 |
![]()
Confession and Gfx guardian
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
God was probably just being lazy :P . He created a single being and 'installed' an evolution program :L . He probably thought: "let those fools work it out themselves." Note: this is a joke. Don't nag about it. |
![]() |
|
| Mr Master52 | Sep 6 2008, 07:48 PM Post #228 |
![]()
Elephant :O!
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Yow I am a christian, but i also think evolution (or part of it) is right and it actually fits in my beliefs. Example: Who made the big bang? Who began all? Who made life possible (it's actually 1 to 1billion that life could happen, if you look at all the factors and equations)? To look at it from a chrstian point of view, God needed a base to create the men. He made it better and better and we then adapted to our envoirment. (like 10billionth time I say this XD) |
![]() |
|
| Yowming41 | Sep 6 2008, 09:55 PM Post #229 |
![]()
Advanced DIY'er
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Who made the Big Bang? I don't think anyone did, it didn't happen. Why would God need to use evolution? Why couldn't He create humans on the spot and have them be able to survive without taking years to "adapt'? Also, why does the Bible say that God created the world in 6 days? Or do you think God lied?
Edited by Yowming41, Sep 6 2008, 10:14 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Yugiah | Sep 7 2008, 02:17 AM Post #230 |
|
Novice DIY'er
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Yea, the more and more I think about religion (I'm Jewish) the more and more implausible it is, modern science is rapidly disproving many legends etc. Of course there are uncertanties, such as paranormal things, but for the most part, it is fake. Legends of heaven and hell are simply to keep humans ethical, and to try to provide order, this worked in ancient times people were afraid and thus it created a better society. Also, you have to ask the question, what makes OUR religion RIGHT and another religion WRONG? Look at any past civilization such as the Mayans, Egyptians, Kushites, Icans, ANY civilization that has a god, there is but one difference between our faith and theirs, and that is their existence. Those societies have died out and given rise to newer ones that claim the the previous ones were primitive and wrong. Well, news flash: times change, 10,000 years from now, when OUR bodies are being dated and our tombs have been discovered, OUR society will be seen as primitive and wrong. I can almost garuntee it. I mean, look at the Egyptians, to them, gods like Amon, Osiris, etc. were the true gods, any non-belivers were again, thought to be primitive and wrong. Now, from our perspective, THEY are the ones that are wrong. Interesting, yes? So like I said, thousaunds of years from now, Jesus, etc. will simply be forgotten, rediscovered, and laughed at. Maybe not laughed at, but to occupants of the future, we will seem like fools. If science continues on it's course, within a few centuries, religion might even cease to exist, sicence will probably have solved it all. My theories to the for the un-explainable: Creation---- Our universe isn't the only one, there are an infinite number of them all throughout whatever they exist in. No universe obviously is the same, something will be differen't but that something can be ANYTHING, an event, particle, whatever. There is, somewhere, a universe that is EXACTLY the same as ours, except in some point in time, a single atom moved to a different position, then moved back, or it never did, or it did but after a different amount of time and so on. We ourselves are not unique, there an an infinite number of copies of us, and we were not a product of an omnipotent being. Of course, if anything can happen in any universe, then there is some omnipotent being, that CAN influence us, so this can technically work both ways. Sou----l (e.g. our will): We all know that we are composed of different particles which make up molecules and so on, I don;t think that there is a "soul" or "spirit" that simply exisits, it must be composed of something. Look at our brains, they are insanly complex, and yet at the atomic level, they are simply atoms comming and goin, releasing and obtaining different sub-atomic particles, which in turn, may be releasing sub-sub-atomic particles (quarks). Our brain, emotions, EVERYTHING in this universe consists of particles that react. So, nothing has a spirit that dissapears after these reactions stop, causing death, we just have very complex and evolved thought processes. Ghosts----- (and other paranormal things): Remember, there are an infinite number of universes, and there have been experiments that have lead us to belive that certain sub-atomic particles can pass between universes, but shouldn't universes be spread apart by unthinkable distances? Maybe, or maybe they all overlap, nobody knows for sure. At the sub-sub-sub atomic level, space-time is not smooth, it is what is called Quantum Foam, the bubles in this foam are actually wormholes to to other universes that constantly dissapear and reappear. Miniature black holes also happen to form there too, but again, dissapear. Well, I belive that certain particles like photons pass through the wormholes with ease, where they then interact with other particles. This alone does not explain ghosts and other paranormal events, remember, with an infinite amount of universes, there can be all kinds of properties particles etc. can obtain. The laws of physics apply in our universe, and in some other ones. Well, there may be different particles that can still pass through the quantum foam, that have other properties, in one universe, there may be a being that while it looks exactly the same here, as it does there, the particles have a property to travel through the quantum foam and re-arrange themselves in this universe, creating a ghost. Heaven and Hell--- To put it blankly, I do not belive in an afterlife. I do not belive anything happens after death, it is simply black, almost like a dreamless sleep. When you go to sleep, you do not sense the passing of time, and when you don't dream, it is almost as if it were instant. I picture death in almost the same way, you don't sense time, just like falling asleep, there is a begining, but instead of waking up, that never happens. Our self-awareness will cease to exist, and because the chemical reactions in our brain have stopped, we will not even sense it. In fact, there is no black, no white, no colors at all, when you sleep and don't dream, is it black? No, it is truly nothing. This is incredibly hard to explain, you have to think about it yourself, there are no words (as far as I know) that can create a picture. Even so, it is hard just think about it, right when you think you've got it, it slips away, and your mind literally goes blank for a second. As a comparison, it's like explaining the color of your car to a person who has been blind their entire life, it is utterly impossible. |
![]() |
|
| Mr Master52 | Sep 7 2008, 07:16 AM Post #231 |
![]()
Elephant :O!
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
You are forgetting Yugiah, that you're saying all those things from the "scientific" point of view, which is entirely different to the religious. You can go to a statue of Jesus on the cross and a scientist will say "This is made of stone and has the characteristics x and y, was made in the XVII century by the person X." A Christian will just say "It's holy" and it sums up everything about it. |
![]() |
|
| Bunni Killer | Sep 7 2008, 08:25 AM Post #232 |
|
Novice DIY'er
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Most likely I'm wasting my time, but I hate to see people reject science because they think it's incompatible with their religion. You should at least have the benefit of understanding all sides before you pick one.
COULD God have created people instantly? Sure. He could also have created us with modern technology and knowledge. Things have changed over time, and they're still changing. Humans have evolved, if only in what we know about our surroundings--but if God was only interested in an end result, He wouldn't have made us on earth at all: He'd have made us in heaven. Why would God need evolution? Good question. Why would He need 6 days? I imagine it as a domino set. People are engrossed for hours making complex setups simply to knock down one final piece. Would they be as entertained just toppling that piece with a finger? A less destructive example: I like to draw. I enjoy starting with a shape, adding more, then lines and shadows and maybe color. The experience is worth a lot to me--but if I were to snap my fingers and see a painting appear, it wouldn't be. The same thing is applicable to God. Is it true? Maybe, maybe not. But to say God would have created the world in exactly 6 days--no more, no less--is to limit a being that is, by definition, limitless.
First of all, the Bible did not spring into existence in its current, English translation. In its original language, the word used for "day" doesn't just mean a specific, 24-hour period--it can mean a day or an entire age. Moreover, a literal translation is not the only possible translation of the Bible (if it's the one you follow, that's your choice--but you need to know the full story the better to make that choice). Fundamentalist groups tend to use a literal translation, but others don't--because they believe the spiritual message of the Bible transcends the words used in it. Take Genesis, the origin of the "6 day" idea. People who use a less literal translation believe that the message of Genesis isn't to give us the specific order and manner of creation. Instead, the message is that God created the world. Adding manner and order made that message easier to for people to understand, like a similie or metaphor. The idea isn't that God lied in creating the message--it's that He offered that message in a form that people could relate to, the same way Jesus would later with parables. ~~~ There. I think I've explained it to the best of my ability. Unfortunately I'm not as skilled a writer as God, so those domino/artist/author comparisons will have to do. |
![]() |
|
| Yowming41 | Sep 8 2008, 01:14 AM Post #233 |
![]()
Advanced DIY'er
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Those are some fair points. But why would God use evolution to creat men? Did He not say that we are created in 'His image'? Why would he make us look like ugly fish or apes or stupid beasts? |
![]() |
|
| Eddie | Sep 8 2008, 01:42 AM Post #234 |
![]()
Paranormal DIY'er
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
That's actually a very valid point. The religion relating to Greek gods was actually that humans were created for their enjoyment, maybe that's the same with the Christian God? |
![]() |
|
| Yowming41 | Sep 8 2008, 07:53 PM Post #235 |
![]()
Advanced DIY'er
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
...In a sense, I suppose. Humans were created so God and them could enjoy loving relationships with each other. It's more humans being God's friends then His..I dunno...pets. |
![]() |
|
| Blackt3ars | Sep 8 2008, 08:27 PM Post #236 |
![]()
Confession and Gfx guardian
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Lol, reality show with the whole world as stars :P . Big Brother's watching you ^_^ . |
![]() |
|
| Llamakill | Sep 8 2008, 09:48 PM Post #237 |
![]()
Advanced DIY'er
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Everyone ready for a deep statement by me? My view on pretty much everything: Life's a bitch. People may love you for a while, it wont last. We don't own anything, and never will. It's all just borrowed from somewhere. Were all pretty darn insignificant, and so i dont see how (not) me believing in a God would make much difference to anyone but me. Then you die. Oh dear, I'm such a cheerful person aren't I? |
![]() |
|
| Yugiah | Sep 9 2008, 04:13 AM Post #238 |
|
Novice DIY'er
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I like my opinions, and besides, you can't have a good argument without most or all of the perspectives :D Lama: Only SOME people are like that. Edited by Yugiah, Sep 9 2008, 04:16 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Danielle | Sep 9 2008, 11:48 AM Post #239 |
![]()
~: When it ends :~
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I dont think god is 'real' but some people need somthing to belive in people didnt know what happend after death so they created a god Imo it got out of hand and god ended up supposedly making us (ironic) |
![]() |
|
| Blackt3ars | Sep 9 2008, 04:16 PM Post #240 |
![]()
Confession and Gfx guardian
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Well, this is something my teach told me about a religion today. It's deism. Basically, it's the idea that God created this universe and all of its laws of physics, but besides that, God does not intervene with life. It's what some of you guys described a bit earlier. Here's some more on deism: Deism |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Debates · Next Topic » |





![]](http://z1.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)









2:12 PM Jul 11