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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 5 2008, 03:30 AM (3,176 Views) | |
| Bunni Killer | Jul 29 2008, 11:00 PM Post #201 |
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Novice DIY'er
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You seem to have misunderstood the point--or, perhaps, the scale--of that comparison. ;) It isn't to say that science is reasonless--everything we do has a reason, whether apparent or not and whether grand or minor--but to say that the *ultimate* question pursued by scientists is how things work. How does the world work? Religion on the other hand is looking for the reason why things work the way they do. Why is there a world? People can use science in accordance with their why, but the thing itself is neutral. Your spaceship doesn't make you decide you want to know what's out there; your testing method doesn't tell you that you want people to have clean water. The whys, while they can be applied to science, are only found through philosophy, logic, religion, instinct--whatever it is you use to define your morality. Okay, done editing now. Edited by Bunni Killer, Jul 29 2008, 11:14 PM.
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| naomi shail | Jul 30 2008, 07:33 AM Post #202 |
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Newbie DIY'er
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As much as I agree with you, would you admit that if there was no reason to learn a how, we wouldn't have science in the first place? It's hardly scientific to say you want to go to space, but the why doesn't depend on religion and wanting to know the scope of the universe, any more than I would if I wanted a bowl of ice cream. Yes, religion looks for a why, but so does any form of philosophy, making the description of religion the "why" and science the "how" inaccurate. (Yes, I'm nitpicking, but that's always been a pet peeve of mine, along with the Creationism in class thing. If you notice, nobody really brought up the idea of religion in school, but it was a chance to get on my soapbox. I took it. ;) ) |
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| Bunni Killer | Jul 30 2008, 10:14 AM Post #203 |
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Novice DIY'er
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Reread my last paragraph. That should make it clear that I don't consider religion the sole factor in why--but that is the question it answers. Certainly philosophy is in the same realm--and that's why philosophy and religion can conflict (indeed, the two have exercised that ability many times). But philosophy is not science. And once again, science really is a neutral study. Gravity doesn't care whether God exists, and genetics aren't going to teach us the meaning of life. Science is the study and sometimes application of a means to an end (or to a "why' if you will). And I'm with you on schools. Creationism can be taught in a classroom, but only if it's Comparative Religion. The same goes for its PC cousin, Intelligent Design. Edited by Bunni Killer, Jul 30 2008, 10:15 AM.
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| Yowming41 | Jul 30 2008, 10:10 PM Post #204 |
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Advanced DIY'er
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Comparitive Religion? |
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| Llamakill | Jul 30 2008, 10:16 PM Post #205 |
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Advanced DIY'er
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Naomi, That's a pretty good view of life. My life's more Grey, finding a black and white could be much better. :P |
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| naomi shail | Jul 30 2008, 11:48 PM Post #206 |
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Newbie DIY'er
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Agreed Cerruh, and thanks for the comment Llamakill! Edited by naomi shail, Jul 31 2008, 12:28 AM.
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| Jack Sam1 | Jul 31 2008, 10:25 AM Post #207 |
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DIY's Master Runecrafter. 96/99. DIY Editor
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I have just deleted the last 2 posts as they bore no relevance to the discussion at hand. -->Jack Sam1 -->DIY Moderator |
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| Mr Master52 | Aug 1 2008, 11:32 AM Post #208 |
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Elephant :O!
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Wars and stuff are caused by religion, science and other stuff. I think science is great- it helped me when I was sick, it allows me to even write this post. But that doesn't stop me from believing that all this was created for a purpose. I'm not saying that god said "I'm giving this and this materials and in 3k years humans will make a PC out of it" I strongly believe in science (80% of it) but I also believe in Religion. I am 99% sure a Big Bang happened, and I just looked at all the factors that allow us to live: Carbon, Distance to the sun, water, all Nanometric precision that can't be just "luck". Science produces bombs for war and religion sometimes causes that war, that's why some people hate religion, but think: Just because one or two leaders is bad, that doesn't mean that religion is bad, it's just the way people interpret religion. I don't hate a muslim for being a muslim, I try to understand how he thinks about life and then I tell my point of view. Eirik always says "Master thinks that all non-christians are a disease and need to be cured, he's a fanatic etc etc". I'll just answer that with a quote from Pascal (surely someone know it): When someone says something is true and you can't be 100% sure, then the chance of it being right is 50% and wrong 50%. Imagine you say it's wrong: it MAY happen that it was right and you burn in hell. But if you say it's right you don't lose anything, it costs nothing and it MAY happen that you go to heaven. As a side point, I think it's stupid to have catholic and evangelic Christians, we're all Christians, finito. |
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| Yowming41 | Aug 1 2008, 03:03 PM Post #209 |
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Advanced DIY'er
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Good points, Master, although on the last part I'd have to say that some Christians don't believe in God-caused-evolution so that might be different...but otherwise I dunno really why we have like Protestant, Baptist, Lutheran, ect. :O |
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| Bunni Killer | Aug 1 2008, 09:17 PM Post #210 |
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Novice DIY'er
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I was wondering when someone would bring in Pascal's Wager. The problem with that is (a) it's just believing because of a "why not?" sort of selfishness, and (b) it isn't a choice between God and No God--it's a choice between all the different religions, all of which believe they're the right one. That doesn't mean religion is wrong--just that people should follow a religion because they think it's right, not because they figure"I may as well."
That's all down to human nature, really. Each sect considers its way the right way, and to unite they would have to pick a single path. That means everyone else would have to give up what they consider right. Edited by Bunni Killer, Aug 1 2008, 09:19 PM.
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| Mr Master52 | Aug 5 2008, 06:27 PM Post #211 |
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Elephant :O!
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you can't consider it a "sect", a sect is like people thinking that Madonna is the goddess and worship her in a secret house in the mountains lol º-º... The problem is , yeah, there are many religions. But I made my choice. Your choice is up to you ;) |
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| Hunter | Aug 5 2008, 09:36 PM Post #212 |
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Everything Went Numb
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I was reading Eldest today, when I came across this passage: Oromis smiled. "Very true. But ask yourself this, Eragon: If gods exist, have they been good custodians of Alagasesia? Death, sickness, poverty, tyranny, and countless other miseries stalk the land. If this is the handiwork of divine beings, then they are to be rebelled against and overthrown, not given obeisance, obedience, and reverence." "The dwarves believe-" "Exactly! The dwarves believe. When it comes to certain matters, they rely upon faith rather than reason. They have even been known to ignore proven facts that contradict their dogma." Alright, now lets take some words out and put new words in, yet it still makes sense! Hunter smiled. "Very true. But ask yourself this, Tigerblitz: If gods exist, have they been good custodians of Earth? Death, sickness, poverty, tyranny, and countless other miseries stalk the land. If this is the handiwork of divine beings, then they are to be rebelled against and overthrown, not given obeisance, obedience, and reverence." "The Christians (or any other religious group) believe-" "Exactly! The Christians (or any other religious group) believe. When it comes to certain matters, they rely upon faith rather than reason. They have even been known to ignore proven facts that contradict their dogma." Edited by Hunter, Aug 7 2008, 09:09 PM.
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| Bunni Killer | Aug 6 2008, 10:04 AM Post #213 |
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Novice DIY'er
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Actually you *can* consider it a sect, as it falls under most (though not all) definitions of the same. Dictionary.com's definitions of sect. Though I suppose denomination is more PC. And, thank you for respecting the right to choose. ^_^ It's all I ask. Edited by Bunni Killer, Aug 6 2008, 10:07 AM.
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| Yowming41 | Aug 7 2008, 12:50 PM Post #214 |
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Advanced DIY'er
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Hunter, if you knew much about Christianity, you'd know there's a reason for 'Death, sickness, poverty, tyranny, and countless other miseries.' Also, if there were an almighty being, do you think they would spend their time making -your- life perfect? |
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| Hunter | Aug 7 2008, 08:52 PM Post #215 |
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Everything Went Numb
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I wasn't trying to single out Christianity, if read it carefully. I was using it as an example because that is what this thread is mostly based on. And I never said anything about that so called god making my life perfect. My life is about as far from perfect as anybody I know can get. |
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| Llamakill | Aug 7 2008, 09:05 PM Post #216 |
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Advanced DIY'er
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Why did you use me in the example?!?! :D Although i love the inheritance books :D |
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| Hunter | Aug 7 2008, 09:08 PM Post #217 |
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Everything Went Numb
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Whoops, I meant to use Tiger, but I was trying to post this is a hurry. =( Sorry!! |
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| Llamakill | Aug 7 2008, 09:12 PM Post #218 |
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Advanced DIY'er
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It's not a problem lol, Dw about it :P |
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| Nick | Aug 27 2008, 09:03 PM Post #219 |
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Intermediate DIY'er
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I have a many different belief. For one, I believe in reincarnation also, like Blackt3ars. I also do NOT believe in a Heaven or Hell. I believe it is something kind of like a MASSIVE village with everyone living together, whether you have a wicked heart or not. In all honesty, I have NO problem with religious people, except for the fact they try to "convert" me so to speak. I am what I am. No one can change that. NOTHING. And I have been forced to believe in Christianity for ALL my life. I am like Eirik in that sense. I realized there is no one ABLE to physically change who I am inside. |
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| Tigerblitz | Sep 5 2008, 04:18 PM Post #220 |
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Proud to be a Banana Ninja
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Treeko I'm not "frocing you" to do anything. I just would like to know that you will be safe forever. |
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