Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Just follow the on screen instructions and you'll have an account in no time!

Join our community! (click here)

We hope you enjoy your visit.

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Atheism
Topic Started: Feb 6 2008, 09:46 PM (3,222 Views)
1337 Sk1llzz
Member Avatar
Experienced DIY'er
[ *  *  *  * ]
Let's say you have a son. You love him dearly and teach him to love you too. You teach him right and wrong, and to profess his love to you. He grows up, realizes that you aren't that great, and refuses to return your love. He then steals your car and lies to you. Does he deserve eternal torture? I view that punishment as extremely unjust.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gill
Member Avatar
Your Token Native.
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Pwnt. However, if he hasn't already, it's surely only a matter of time until Yow pulls the "Well God is not comparable to us, for God isn't a human being, and thus doesn't abide by the same rules" card. XD
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Blackt3ars
Member Avatar
Confession and Gfx guardian
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Still, why punish if the victim won't be able to learn from it? Does God think some people will never learn? That's weak (hence making him not omnipotent :P ).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Yowming41
Member Avatar
Advanced DIY'er
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Do you think it's unfair to sentence someone who murdered a school full of kids to a lifetime of prison, because he'll never be able to get out and learn from his mistake? No, Black, God doesn't think some people can't learn. Anyone can go to Heaven. A man who murdered ten million people could go to Heaven. It's too much to expect of humans that anyone could be perfect, which is why God doesn't expect it. It doesn't matter what you've done. Nothing is 'too much' for God to forgive. God gives you a second chance.

Gill, for right now, I didn't think of that. But you have to say that it's got truth in it. Do you expect God to act just like humans? He does have different standards. To him, any lie, theft or other sin is evil, and you can't be perfect if you do them. Which is why, like I said, you don't get to Heaven on being perfect, that would be impossibly hard.
Edited by Yowming41, May 19 2009, 08:10 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr Master52
Member Avatar
Elephant :O!
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
God is like Jagex: If you mess up, you get a blackmark. Now that blackmark will lead you to hell. But if you repent your mess-up, you'll go to heaven.
That's why people that mess up big time have less chance of doing so; bigger blackmarks are harder to repent than small blackmarks.
As far as I know you guys you'll all going to heaven if you are good people and accept that God exists. Atheists are, I dare to say, too "immature" in the religious way to accept the truth.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Yowming41
Member Avatar
Advanced DIY'er
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Master, I'm fairly certain that you consider yourself to be a Christian, yes? But if that's truly what you believe, you are not. You do not get to Heaven by accepting that God exists and being 'good people'. Good works do not erase bad works. This is not Christianity. Satan 'accepts that God exists' and if he were to spend the next 1000 years doing good acts, do you think he would go to Heaven? No.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr Master52
Member Avatar
Elephant :O!
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
1) Satan doesn't repent his crimes
2) Satan is a metaphor
3) So you think that a family that lives somewhere in the wild and helps many other people out and shares their small amount of food is going to hell just because they didn't have the chance to know anything about Jesus?
If you say "no" to accepting Jesus, then you're surely not going to heaven. But if you didn't even had the chance to know Him, then you shouldn't be punished.
I, for one, don't believe that God has the same rules from the start. God is flexible. He's not that angry. If you think he's the kind of Wrath God, then you fear him, Yow. And that's what Atheists think they know: We are scared. But why should we be scared? They're just missing something and they're having the chance to get it. If they reject the opportunity, then I see a dark future for mankind.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Yowming41
Member Avatar
Advanced DIY'er
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
1. I know that.
2. ...if you mean Satan isn't real, then you're wrong, but if you mean he's a comparison, that doesn't mean the point doesn't work.
3. Ah, here's where the going goes dark. I don't really believe that, say, a three day old infant who doesn't have the mental capacities, or the opportunity, to learn about and accept the Gospel is going to Hell. I have no idea how God would figure out where that baby's eternal life would take place in, but thankfully, it's God who's running things in his infinite wisdom and not me. However, you know how Christian missionaries go to spread the Gospel to places like, say, India? Well, if people die in India who are Hindu, I don't think God lets them into heaven because missionaries haven't gotten to their villages yet- that's one of the reasons missions are important.

God's word states that all men are without excuse when they stand before him, do you doubt this? "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except through me."- that one shows that Jesus is the only key to Heaven's gates.

Also, you were talking to the people in this forum when you said they'd go to Heaven if they did good works and acknowledged God's existence. And they do have the chance to accept the Gospel- just by debating here they prove that they've had the chance to learn about it. They won't get into heaven if they've rejected it.
Edited by Yowming41, Jul 3 2009, 03:45 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1337 Sk1llzz
Member Avatar
Experienced DIY'er
[ *  *  *  * ]
In the fictitious story of Christianity, I believe Satan is the good guy, and I have 'facts' to support my point. He killed less people (source). The ten people Satan killed were Job's family. God made bet with Satan, which led to Job and his familys' deaths. So without God's interference, Satan would not have killed anyone.

He didn't create any evils of the world. Since God is the creator of everything, he must have created AIDS, cancer, pain, slavery, etc. God supports slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46). God endorses killing numerous people if their views differ from Jewish/Christian views, including children who disobey parents (source). God killed the whole world in the Great Flood, before there were Commandments set in place. Satan didn't create Hell, God did. We don't even know if he caused Eve to eat the apple, since the Bible never states that the serpent was Satan.

I think the whole Satan is evil thing is all propaganda made by God. God is the evil one. God is the one who sends people to burn for all eternity in the first place. God has caused wars like the Crusades, and other wars people fought for religion. And God causes millions to go to hell everyday. If he is all-powerful, why doesn't he just come down and tell people the right religion. Then, the people who haven't heard of Christianity yet could at least have a chance. God is an authoratarian figure who stops people from salvation and doing the things they want.

And if Satan is so evil, why doesn't God just stop him?

Edit: Here is a website that lists other evil things done/endorsed in the Bible. Including killing sons of sinners, dashing of babies against rocks, and marriage of women who were raped to their rapist. The Bible, source of all morals and good!
Edited by 1337 Sk1llzz, Jul 17 2009, 07:16 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dark Kirby 0
Member Avatar
Newbie DIY'er
Religions are created to control people. Most religions have several things in common, A "punishment" or hell, that encourages you NOT to do things. A "reward" or heaven, which encourages you to do the right thing (according to the religion). Wrong and Right are subjective. Anyway...

The truth is you're just like every piece of matter on this planet and you're just gonna rot... and that's science!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr Master52
Member Avatar
Elephant :O!
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
O, how I love debating :).

Kirby, you're simply stating a fact that nowadays there are many religions and some are just forthefail and manikantrawling. I have to remember you that the roots of christianity date back more than a thousand years BC and in that time there were not such manikantrawlings. Believe me or not, I died. I went to heaven and God said "lol you were nice, so phree heaven for you". I saw a random chinese that was next to me and God said "Thou shall be forgiven, for thy sins were not intended and my word has never ere been told to thee".
What I mean is that if you never had the chance to believe in anything, you shouldn't be punished. I believe Yow is an ultra-christian, which isn't bad, we need those people. But, seriously, the Bible should NEVER be taken by word and every sentence has 39245 metaphors, maybe 39246.
So, my point is, that Atheists had atheist parents or atheist friends. If everybody would be christian, there would be no atheism, everyone would be polite, cool, nice, chilly and there would be no wars (NO, Hitler and Co. were NOT christians). Of course this could be applied to any other religion (except for Allah-bombers).
Lol this is actually funny
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Saj_61
Member Avatar
Intermediate DIY'er
[ *  *  * ]
Mr Master52
Sep 24 2009, 06:09 PM
O, how I love debating :). Kirby, you're simply stating a fact that nowadays there are many religions and some are just forthefail and manikantrawling. I have to remember you that the roots of christianity date back more than a thousand years BC and in that time there were not such manikantrawlings. Believe me or not, I died. I went to heaven and God said "lol you were nice, so phree heaven for you". I saw a random chinese that was next to me and God said "Thou shall be forgiven, for thy sins were not intended and my word has never ere been told to thee". What I mean is that if you never had the chance to believe in anything, you shouldn't be punished. I believe Yow is an ultra-christian, which isn't bad, we need those people. But, seriously, the Bible should NEVER be taken by word and every sentence has 39245 metaphors, maybe 39246. So, my point is, that Atheists had atheist parents or atheist friends. If everybody would be christian, there would be no atheism, everyone would be polite, cool, nice, chilly and there would be no wars (NO, Hitler and Co. were NOT christians). Of course this could be applied to any other religion (except for Allah-bombers). Lol this is actually funny
And christianity is better than all other religions for what reasons? Im pretty sure Christians are to blame for a lot of wars + violence that have happened.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr Master52
Member Avatar
Elephant :O!
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Saj, nobody is perfect, especially humans. Are you implying that Christians should make no mistakes and be saints whatsoever?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Saj_61
Member Avatar
Intermediate DIY'er
[ *  *  * ]
Ye but killing thousands, if not millions of people because they are a different religion and they didnt see what was wrong. Kinda easy to relise that its wrong, not when you look back on it many many years later. TBH no wonder the middle east hates the "Christian countries" so much.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr Master52
Member Avatar
Elephant :O!
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
You are referring to the middle ages. I am referring to current ages. Humans get smarter and evolve. You can't blame me for something my uber-grand-father did when everyone at that time did the same thing
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Eddie
Member Avatar
Paranormal DIY'er
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Mr Master52
Sep 24 2009, 06:09 PM
O, how I love debating :).

Kirby, you're simply stating a fact that nowadays there are many religions and some are just forthefail and manikantrawling. I have to remember you that the roots of christianity date back more than a thousand years BC and in that time there were not such manikantrawlings. Believe me or not, I died. I went to heaven and God said "lol you were nice, so phree heaven for you". I saw a random chinese that was next to me and God said "Thou shall be forgiven, for thy sins were not intended and my word has never ere been told to thee".
What I mean is that if you never had the chance to believe in anything, you shouldn't be punished. I believe Yow is an ultra-christian, which isn't bad, we need those people. But, seriously, the Bible should NEVER be taken by word and every sentence has 39245 metaphors, maybe 39246.
So, my point is, that Atheists had atheist parents or atheist friends. If everybody would be christian, there would be no atheism, everyone would be polite, cool, nice, chilly and there would be no wars (NO, Hitler and Co. were NOT christians). Of course this could be applied to any other religion (except for Allah-bombers).
Lol this is actually funny
Wtf are you talking about?

My parents are both really, really Christian yet I'm agnostic. I didn't know anyone else atheist/agnostic until I became one. I also know complete and total dicks that consider themselves Christians.

It's funny how we don't take the bible word for word when it doesn't fit with our society, but before when it did, we did take it word for word. Huh.

Show me the metaphor here:

"If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through." (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." Exodus 21:20-21 NAB
Edited by Eddie, Sep 27 2009, 04:18 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Yugiah
Member Avatar
Novice DIY'er
[ *  * ]
Here's my two cents: The fact that there are quite a few major religions out there has really bugged me, because in essence, everyone claims they're right and everyone else is wrong. So, I just belive that religion is a fantastic way to impose a set of moral codes on a large society, and I see nothing wrong with that. The idea of "God" though really has too many flaws for me to belive. For instance, if God is truly all-powerful, why doesn't he eradicate all evil within this world? Why can't he just make us behave better, why is it our job to convert others? He could do it with less than the snap of a finger, and then the world would be perfect. God should obviously believe fully in his own ideas, and thus should have no trouble making people belive in them.
Eternal consequences are my biggest peeve, with the fact being that they're eternal. What happens after you've done everything there is to do in heaven? Eternal paradise would eventually turn into eternal boredom. The same thing goes for hell, if you were to kill someone you should be trapped in hell forever, but again, you would eventually become bored. Having no end like that would be utter madness for everyone, I think there has to be some kind of end...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr Master52
Member Avatar
Elephant :O!
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
God uses lives, Yugiah. He wants us to solve the problems by our own so we can learn. He's like a dad seeing both sons fighting and letting them hurt each other until they see that there's no point in it. One time Humanity will mature
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Eddie
Member Avatar
Paranormal DIY'er
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Thanks for replying to my post. Much appreciated.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
James
Member Avatar
Intermediate DIY'er
[ *  *  * ]
Owch, go wild Eddie :P ?

And umm.. I agree with Yugi on the whole 'Eternal' thing. Surely if there was a Heaven / Hell humanity wouldn't be so scared of death?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
Learn More · Register for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Debates · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Theme Created by Chort27 of NGL