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Car Ai Details In Parameters.txt; Simple AI, for anything, 1207 & old 1.2
Topic Started: Jan 2 2011, 03:30 AM (15,994 Views)
R6TurboExtreme
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Ehm CW, I have a problem. I did the tutorial on a custom toyeca.

The car runs everywhere good, except on icy surfaces on the market. I tried to change the UnderMax value, but that only made it worser. The undermax value is 19.3 now, and its good.

But what can I do to make the car running good on the market freezer? I don't want to change the params, as I did low grip because the toyeca needs a bad part. I don't want perfect cars, but i'd like to have good AI.

Any tips?
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Citywalker
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19.3? You mean, more than 1.0 or is it a typo? :)

Anyway, I'm afraid that ice remains a challenge for 1207 AI with some cars. Try UnderMax 0.5 and if that doesn't help, then we'll have to wait for the new V1.2 AI...
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CW
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R6TurboExtreme
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umm maybe, its 0.1930000 indeed.
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burner94
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R6TurboExtreme,Thursday, Oct 20 2011
06:57
Ehm CW, I have a problem. I did the tutorial on a custom toyeca.

The car runs everywhere good, except on icy surfaces on the market. I tried to change the UnderMax value, but that only made it worser. The undermax value is 19.3 now, and its good.

But what can I do to make the car running good on the market freezer? I don't want to change the params, as I did low grip because the toyeca needs a bad part. I don't want perfect cars, but i'd like to have good AI.

Any tips?

Either having rail handling or deleting ice property on tracks :P
No other way to implement AI drifting at the moment. That also explains the bad AI most drift cars have.
LiveVolt supporter :)
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Rail handling is for n00bs.
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Citywalker
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Hey, R6TE, try this:
Get the track tc6, i.e. „Test Course 6, Concrete“, from the following pack:
http://rvzt.zackattackgames.com/main/comme...e+5+-+Ice+Speed
Then use the half-step method to find the highest UnderMax value that still lets the AI reach the car’s top speed (what the player can reach) so that the top speed doesn’t fluctuate in AI’s hands. That should be a good balanced value for the Supermarket 2 ice and for other track surfaces as well.

A word about the Supermarket 2 ice in general: this is the absolute trickiest course that can be! It is not just a patch of ice, but an icy road with higher surface grip at roadsides (the snow areas). Ask any driver – this is the worst that can happen. As soon as the car touches the roadside, its one side gets better traction than the other side and all handling is thrown out of whack. In Re-Volt Supermarket 2, the car usually happens to get a good speed boost from snow and then it can’t compensate for that because it reaches the more slippery ice. The only way to get a clean pass there is to never touch the snow, i.e. clean entry, clean racing arc, clean exit. Tough to do for anyone, especially AI. Still, it _is_ possible if you get the good borderline UnderMax value from the TC6 track. I did it for both turn-on-a-dime BiWheel and half-drifter Nissy.

Edit:
Just 10 short accelerations (including the first with no steering, to determine the top speed), and Candy Pebbles (!) can take Supermarket 2 ice with grace.
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CW
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Pranav
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Citywalker,Monday, Oct 17 2011
08:03
• Have the AI run the car on Neighbourhood 1 track, as only 1 car in the race.

Please can you tell me how to do it?
I am running it in -dev mode.
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Dave-o-rama
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get into a 2-car single race with the car whose AI you want to tweak as your opponent, and instead of racing it, observe it. Don't forget to move your car out of the way :P

Unless there's a better way...
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Citywalker
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Add also -gazzasaicar, to have the AI run the car for you (hold Right Ctrl key to take control temporarily).
To get only 1 car in the race, use WolfR4 with the 1207 Re-Volt.
But beware – WolfR4-s settings affect V1.2 as well. Uncheck the options later and run game once, before racing in V1.2.
All my stuff is available here, and all my videos are available there.
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CW
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Pranav
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Citywalker,Sunday, Nov 6 2011
17:59
Add also -gazzasaicar, to have the AI run the car for you (hold Right Ctrl key to take control temporarily).
To get only 1 car in the race, use WolfR4 with the 1207 Re-Volt.
But beware – WolfR4-s settings affect V1.2 as well. Uncheck the options later and run game once, before racing in V1.2.

I still don't get it. I am running 1.2.
I have added -gazzasaicar also, do i have to run it in 2-car single race mode?

I want to observe my monster truck, so should i choose another car or my monster truck?
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Dave-o-rama
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Pranav,Sunday, Nov 6 2011
07:38
I want to observe my monster truck, so should i choose another car or my monster truck?

It doesn't matter what car you're using because you're not racing. Definitely go with Panga :)
hi-ban about strike21's constantly getting banned
 
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Pranav
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Dave-o-rama,Sunday, Nov 6 2011
18:10
Pranav,Sunday, Nov 6 2011
07:38
I want to observe my monster truck, so should i choose another car or my monster truck?

It doesn't matter what car you're using because you're not racing. Definitely go with Panga :)

But how can i make the second car to be my monster truck?

(Sorry if this sounds noobish :) )
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Skarma
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This gazzasaicar thing doesn't seem to work at all for me...
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Citywalker
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<sigh> Okay, time for detailed instructions again.

To get 1 car in a race and have AI run it, with V1.2:
• Get WolfR4 (http://jigebren.free.fr/jeux/pc/revolt/WolfR4.html#Download)
• Run WolfR4 alone, DON’T press the “Launch Re-Volt” button there.
• In “Options” tab, “Race Options” sub-tab, check “Number of cars” and make it have value “1”.
• Close WolfR4.
• Run V1.2, with -dev -gazzasaicar.
• In-game, choose your car and track and observe.
• Hold Right Ctrl key to take control for yourself temporarily.
• Use Alt+Tab to switch between Re-Volt and Windows, so you can go edit the parameters and get back to game where you left it.
• Press Shift+F10 in-game to reload the car, if you have edited the parameters.

That’s it.
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CW
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Pranav
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WolfR4 does not allow me to have "Number of cars" as 1. :(
Whenever i write 1, it turns to "2".
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Citywalker
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Darn, I forgot.

In "Options" --> "Track/Car Makers", check "Allow single car race".
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CW
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Pranav
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It still isn't working. :(
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huki
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Hmm try this:

- Run 1.2 with 2 command lines: -dev -gazzasaicar (watch the spelling)
- Start Race -> Edit Mode (None) -> Pick your car and track
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Pranav
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huki,Monday, Nov 7 2011
17:53
Hmm try this:

- Run 1.2 with 2 command lines: -dev -gazzasaicar (watch the spelling)
- Start Race -> Edit Mode (None) -> Pick your car and track

Thank you Huki, it worked! :)
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Citywalker
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Bumped for clean-up:
I joined two posts into one tutorial for the simplified AI, re-wrote it for clarity, and the first post now links to it.
Short, simple, works.
All my stuff is available here, and all my videos are available there.
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CW
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Citywalker
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Bumped for more help:
+ Now states the exact number of AI runs for a proper result.
+ It turns out the UnderMax value is the same for old V1207 and new V1.2 AI, but the V1.2 AI will likely far surpass everything this procedure can offer. So simplified AI is mostly intended for the old 1207 AI.
+ Also includes a default fallback value that runs anything decently (not always awesomely).
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CW
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Citywalker
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And bump again:
+ I found a way to kill the tail-swing of tail-happy cars, with the same procedure.
The result is an absolute rail-handling AI. Only... does this kill all the fun too? :ph43r:

Again, first post links to the tutorial and, well, now this one links, too:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Revolt_Live/ind...dpost&p=5309238
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CW
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Citywalker
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Another bump:

Okay, it seems that the KISS principle is the best principle. So I edited the tutorial. Trust me, it’s even simpler now ;)

Again, first post links to the tutorial and, well, now this one links, too:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Revolt_Live/ind...dpost&p=5309238
All my stuff is available here, and all my videos are available there.
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CW
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Citywalker
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Bump:
Two functioning options with constant values that don’t depend on the vehicle. How much more KISS could it be? :)
+ Track AI for all easy-handling cars.
+ Default culling of tail-swing for tail-happy cars.

This makes the first post a good read for general information, and also for deep tweaking if your vehicle is something special.

Again, first post and this post link to the tutorial itself:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Revolt_Live/ind...dpost&p=5309238
All my stuff is available here, and all my videos are available there.
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CW
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Citywalker
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So, the newest AI runs cars exactly the same way no matter what I put in the AI parameters. Huki once said something about making the AI drive any car well, no matter the AI parameters, so I think he has (semi?) silently done just that – stopped accounting for the AI params. And he also introduced some new params there, so, basically, I think V1.2 has lost all backwards compatibility with the old AI. And I can’t really do anything, because V1.2 doesn’t react to anything I do there. I can’t help the newest AI. Even where it has difficulties (like Skarma’s Skull Buster which works nice in old AI, but not in the newest V1.2).
Anyway, Huki is officially on his own now. I can’t help him, he has to get this AI thing in line without me providing helpful tweaks.
Basically, I feel like everyone wanting to change the AI to suit the car and not vice versa, are shut out until Huki releases some detailed info or makes the old/new AI a switch. Darn.
This means that I hereby officially state that all my AI tweaks are intended for the old AI and all complaints please be sent to Huki.
That is all.
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CW
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Citywalker
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This is now only an archive of my earlier half-baked attempts to do the same thing that Huki was trying earlier: find a single AI that runs everything imaginable. But this is simply impossible. Instead, I now present a method of tuning a scratch-made car AI for any individual vehicle so that it runs decently anywhere, including ice. Warning: it only works with the old AI (V1207). Huki’s V1.2 still has some changes in race-code so it’s incompatible. I know because I tried tuning for his AI. Sprinter XL still did a U-turn on ice and already understeered on floors. So it’s old AI only for now.
It’s there:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Revolt_Live/ind...post&p=22058397

The rest of this topic is unchanged, except the first post.
All my stuff is available here, and all my videos are available there.
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CW
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Gustavo6046
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Citywalker,Sunday, Jan 2 2011
03:30
Tutorial follows:

+ General explanations:
• The AI part of the car parameters is essentially a set of instructions for corrections on top of what the track AI orders the cars to do.
• If the car has less than three wheels in contact with the ground, then the car is considered to be tumbling and the entire car AI section is bypassed.
•• In this case, the car is controlled by the track AI only. (Incidentally, this means that all the more lunatic vehicles, like bikes and some of my Concepts going on two wheels only, need to have technically double wheels with identical positions, to have any benefit from the car AI.)

Can I make a car with 5 or more wheels properly without AI problems? Well, I know (or at least it is probably that) this is not the place to ask the following, but can I ever make a car with five or more wheels?
Anyways, Skarma recommended you. Indeed, I were altering an Probe UFO to make it as easy to drive as would be an 13WD car or so... so it actually "floats low" or goes smoothly (with low kinetic friction) instead of stumbling it everywhere there is a corner or a turn or whatever else... (sorry)
Some fries and heavy metal!
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mightycucumber
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It is possible. Check out Hi-ban's Scorcher 6x6, Allan1's Road Bullet or BurnRubr and Manmountain's Wardog.

Normal cars use 4 "single wheels". These cars have wheels paired, so in the parameters, two wheels actually count as just 1. I don't know if I've expresses myself correctly, so I apologize in advance. :)
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Citywalker
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Quote:
 
Can I make a car with 5 or more wheels properly without AI problems?

Yes, because there will technically always be 4 or less wheels. See there.
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CW
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