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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 22 2010, 10:51 PM (337 Views) | |
| BleacherCreature | Apr 22 2010, 10:51 PM Post #1 |
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Jason Pierre Paul and why did we take a D-end? |
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| Venom | Apr 22 2010, 11:03 PM Post #2 |
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May the Force be with you
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Does this mean Osi is gone? I don't get it. |
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| Mattingly23 | Apr 22 2010, 11:41 PM Post #3 |
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There's a really good chance Osi will be dealt before the 2nd round begins tomorrow afternoon. |
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| Strider | Apr 23 2010, 01:42 AM Post #4 |
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I heard on the radio tonight that Reese said Osi is not being dealt and was adamant about that. The plan is to have a deep DE rotation "like in the Super Bowl." That same f*cking refrain we've been hearing every time they draft or sign another defensive lineman. And it hasn't really worked. Even if he's just saying that sh*t and Osi is a Lion tomorrow, Kiwanuka and Canty are still there. I hate this pick and I'm almost disgusted. Granted, I haven't had time to watch footage and break down players like I did in the past and I haven't seen a second of this guy, but I'm not at all impressed. He was a JUCO kid (wanted to go to Central Florida but was f*cked up academically) who played one year at South Florida and had 45 tackles and 6.5 sacks. That's it. I'm sure when the season ended he would've been a projected mid-round project. But he did well at the Combine and has a YouTube video of him doing backflips. So that shot him up into the first. Bullshit. I don't think a Combine workout should ever be able to elevate a player more than maybe a round. If what you saw on film of his 3+ years in college determines he should go __ then a good workout shouldn't completely change the perception. Because the prospect was most likely always capable of working out like a 1st rounder, yet he played like a 3rd rounder. And I'm sorry, but since when did it become cool to spend relatively high first round picks on rotation d-linemen? Especially a year after they drafted Clint Sintim and made Chris Canty their highest-paid defensive player. The Canty signing was the first move of Reese's that I was against and this pick just cost him a lot of points in my book. He's raw as f*ck, started just seven games at South Florida, wasn't that productive and they know he's a project. Why spend a first rounder on a project? Especially when the main guys you have at the position he plays are 28, 27 and 26. He fails the name test, too. Pierre-Paul is almost as bad as Guy Whimper. And someone texted me a couple hours ago saying Pierre-Paul got an 8 on the Wonderlic. And motherf*ck the Raiders for taking McClain. With their offense as f*cked as it is, yeah, an inside linebacker is what they needed most. |
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| Strider | Apr 23 2010, 02:54 AM Post #5 |
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Just watched a couple videos of Pierre-Paul. In total, it was about 10 minutes, but the things that showed up were consistent so I think it's enough to formulate an opinion of what he is. Positives: Hustles. He doesn't give up on plays, even when he's blocked or whiffs on a tackle, he keeps going until the ball carrier is down... Good tackler when he's actually able to make the tackle. He wraps up with good form and drags down... His athleticism stands out right away. He played basketball until junior year in high school, has the build of the new-age defensive ends which is more lean and chiseled with long arms. He's batted some passes that most ends wouldn't have been able to reach. He also has excellent burst off the snap and he explodes out of his stance like a wide receiver with the corner playing off... He sheds blocks well when playing the run. Didn't get to the back all that often (45 tackles), but he was good at getting off his man and going left to right or sealing the edge. Negatives: Didn't start playing football until midway through his junior year of high school and it took the coach literally dragging him into the football locker room and demanding that he play... He has a bull rush and nothing else. That's it in his pass-rush reportoire... He relies too heavily on his speed. Evidenced in him not having any real moves and playing too high. When he attacks the lineman, he comes in up high and doesn't play with good leverage. Osi does that, but he's got an array of moves to help him compensate for bad form. A lot of his penetration was a result of him just getting off the snap quicker than the lineman and not getting blocked. That doesn't happen often in the NFL... He missed a lot of tackles and sacks. He'd get close, but the QB or HB would put a move on him and he'd miss. That's why his tackle total was just ehhh and his sack total, for a reputed pass rusher, wasn't impressive. He could've had a bunch more of both if he didn't miss so often. It happened way too many times. Especially since he only started seven games, it's telling that it happened enough times to jump out in a highlight package... He doesn't go to anything else when he can't get through on the bull rush. I saw him try a spin move twice after he was blocked (didn't work), but most of the times when he was blocked, he'd just keep going straight and trying to push the lineman. That rarely ever accomplishes anything. Partly because o-linemen are stronger and heavier than the rusher and because while the DE is basically trying to push a Nissan uphill, the QB doesn't feel threatened. That and him not having any moves really scares me because I saw those things in Vernon Gholston. If anyone remembers when the Jets took him and I said it was a wasted pick. All Gholston did at Ohio State was rely on his strength and speed, attacked high and had no moves except the bull rush. The difference is I think Pierre-Paul is more athletic and doesn't have as much bitch in him. Gholston (I saw it in footage of him at OSU and I've seen it in person in Jets practices), if he doesn't get anything on his initial move (and he almost never does), he'll quit on the play and go to the try-to-push-the-lineman tactic, except it's half-hearted. Pierre-Paul at least tries hard. So what they've got is the ol' bromide: boom or bust. Boom and he's Jevon Kearse in his prime (similiar physical ability). Bust and he's the guy out there looking clueless and useless. It'll depend on how much and how quickly he can learn and change his game. I can see why a scout would like him and imagine what he can be molded into. But, like I said about Gholston, you don't use a high first-round pick on guys like that. To me, any non-quarterback taken in the top 15 should be able to contribute right away and shouldn't require a great deal of development. The fact that Gholston didn't have any (ANY!) pass rush moves is made me hate that pick. And at least he was productive at OSU (he'd disappear in games and didn't do sh*t except get sacks, but at least he did that). Pierre-Paul wasn't that productive. I can easily see him being one of those guys who five years from now we're like, "Remember him?" My confidence in his ability to learn a lot in a hurry wasn't buoyed by the interview I watched. He sounded dumb. He started playing football "in my 11th grade year." Didn't want to play football in his senior year after the coach who cajoled him into playing left the school, but was talked into staying on. He had one scholarship offer, "That was UCF. I went there and I had like-ted it. But everything ain't go right." What ain't go right was him being a dunce. And he said, "Nah mean?" a lot too many times. I would say his sister sounds dumb, too, but I couldn't figure out what the f*ck she was saying. The fact that he'll have to learn a whole lot and adjust his whole style, wasn't a bright student, sounds stupid and is named Pierre-Paul (Haitians are dumb; yeah, I said it) makes me doubt he'll develop fast enough to make a difference, if ever. I don't want to hear the 15th pick of my 8-8 piece-of-shit-defense team's draft is "doing a solid job on the kickoff coverage unit." The tape tells me this guy is a 3rd round pick. Talented enough for you to think he can be really good, but raw and unproductive enough to keep you from taking such a gamble with either of your first two selections. I haven't been so against a Giants draft pick since they passed on Santonio Holmes, traded down and took Kiwanuka. |
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| Grandy4MVP | Apr 23 2010, 08:29 AM Post #6 |
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Hey Striz, you going to break down Kyle Wilson for me? Give me your thoughts. |
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| BleacherCreature | Apr 23 2010, 12:07 PM Post #7 |
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Thanks for the break down Striz, great work as usual....I had a feeeling this was the case when I heard the name, and at 15 it was a dude I never f*cking heard of before....At one point I was well on my way to thinking Jerry Reese was a f*cking genius...Now I'm startin to think he's just a dumb ***** who made a few moves and got lucky.... |
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| Strider | Apr 24 2010, 02:42 AM Post #8 |
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Positives: He's fast. He clocked at 4.42 in the 40 but actually didn't look that fast when running it. His acceleration from the gun wasn't impressive and if I was guessing his time just off watching him run, I'd have said it was in the high 4.4s, closer to a 4.5. There are some guys like that, who time faster than what it looks like. But then seeing him on tape, he looks like a legit 4.42 guy. He looked faster in games than in the workout... He's nimble. Watching him on punt returns, you can see he's really shifty, has fluid hips, good start-n-stop and change of direction... Good hands. He made some nice catches on interceptions and he catches passes the way you're supposed to (plucking it; not allowing it to get in on his chest)... Hard hitter. He's not one of them bitched-up corners who's afraid of contact. He'll pop people and he'll jump into a pile and get in on a tackle. One catch near the sideline, he pretty much gave a receiver the spinebuster like The Rock used to do. On a nickel blitz, he speared the sh*t out of the QB... Good awareness of where the ball is after it's thrown. You'll see some corners who so get fixated on their man that they have no idea where the ball is. He looks like he's got good instincts. Negatives: He's not fundamentally sound and his speed bought him out of some mistakes in coverage. In one highlight he f*cked up defending a flanker go route, not redirecting the guy at all toward the sideline, not getting inside position and staying in his back pedal almost the entire way. But it didn't hurt him because he was stride-for-stride with the receiver while in his back pedal and the ball was slightly overthrown. That probably won't happen often in the NFL where he's able to run backwards 40 yards and keep up with a receiver. He tries that sh*t against Randy Moss, Brandon Marshall or Lee Evans and he's cooked... Played a lot of off coverage. Didn't see him at the line much playing press or jamming. The few times I did see it, he wasn't physical. If the corner is playing at the line, you expect him to get a jam in on the receiver. He just went into his back pedal off the snap. Maybe he doesn't know how to properly press or it's not his style, but that doesn't fly in the NFL. Chad Johnson is one of the best I've seen at it, where he'll use a jab step and weave around a corner in press. I'm sure a lot of other receivers have good tactics. And if you're not even gonna bother to try and shove the receiver, he's getting a free release and that can kill a CB on short timing routes. Especially since he'll probably be playing nickel. Picture him giving a free release to Welker on a 5-yard slant. Let's assume that shredded knee doesn't take away his quickness. Welker will make his cut before he's even got a chance to stop his back pedal and he's got that 5 + like three more after the catch. Rex likes his corners to press, too. So you know they'll be stressing that in practice... He might be a gambler. Guys who play off a lot and have good hands tend to be the ones who become route-jumpers in the NFL. The guys who play 6 yards off, see the receiver start to turn his hips a little and then come flying up trying to get a pick-6 off a curl route. Those are the guys who'll have decent INT totals but fans of their team hate them because they've seen them get beaten on stutter-gos and corner-posts. Granted, it's not really fair for me to say he'll be like those guys just because he plays off and has good hands... He's too touchy with big receivers. Draft Countdown says he "struggles to match up with big receivers." I don't know if it's so much that he can't (he did have a 38-inch vertical), but he might not be confident. Whenever he was going down field against a tall receiver, he was shoving and holding. He's 30 yards down field doing what he should've been doing to those other receivers in bump & run. The last corner I saw who did that so routinely was Ahmad Carroll, and that guy had 27 penalties in 27 starts with the Packers. Funny enough, Carroll also ran a 4.42 when he came out. But he wasn't nearly as fluid and agile as Wilson... He played at Boise State, so he didn't face too many receivers or quarterbacks who'll be playing in the NFL so he probably wasn't tested greatly. I'm gonna say the Jets have better defensive coaches than the Packers did and maybe they'll be able to coach him out of that and his other flaws. Physically, he's good. He didn't look that impressive running the cone drill (it wasn't bad, but a lot of corners look amazingly quick and smooth on them and he didn't), but he demonstrates that quickness and agility on the field. One of those guys you hear the analysts say looks better with the pads on. Put it this way: he's got more physical talent than Revis, but he's miles from Revis when it comes to technique and fundamentals. You hope that Revis takes him under the wing and he absorbs some of that. With Wilson it's just a matter of learning, polishing his game and staying healthy. I include healthy in that because he's a small corner who hits hard and throws his body around, so durability might become an issue. Overall, I think it's a good pick. Especially for where he was selected. And even if he never becomes more than a nickel back, at least you know he can return punts. If Leon returns to form, they could have him and Wilson back on kick returns and that would be a dangerous duo. |
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| Strider | Apr 24 2010, 03:06 AM Post #9 |
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Thanks... I'd heard of him about a month back. He shot up a lot of draft boards and got onto the radar because of his workouts. Reese has had good drafts, he's a former scout and I like him personally (met him a few times and he's cool), but I can't see how this was a good pick. Why at 15 would you take someone that doesn't fill a position of real need and who might take a couple years to develop? He might be like the DE version of Ramses Barden. Except Barden was taken later and was kind of a luxury pick. He spent the #15 on hope. And let's say that by 2011 this guy is ready to go. OK, he's in a rotation. Because they've still got three other young defensive ends under contract. How many snaps are there to go around anyway? Last year there was supposed to be a glut of pass rushers to keep everyone fresh and feroicious. That's why they made Canty their highest paid defensive player and signed Rocky Bernard and drafted Clint Sintim and made Kiwanuka a permanent DE. The f*ck happened? So let's say the rotation goes. Wycelf Juan Pierre is gonna get like 15 snaps per game, if that. You don't spend that high a pick on that. And if he does become a full-time starter in a year or so, it'll mean that Osi was cut/traded and Kiwanuka was passed over or cut. It would essentially be an admittance that Kiwi was a mistake pick (which he was). |
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| Grandy4MVP | Apr 24 2010, 06:56 PM Post #10 |
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Thanks bro, I always enjoy your analysis. Good looking out! |
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