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Leftfield "Battle"
Topic Started: Mar 14 2010, 02:15 PM (309 Views)
HomieYank
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And I wouldn't care if that on-base matched his average.
I hope you're exaggerating to make some kind of point. Any major league player with a .300 OBP is hurting his team offensively. Period. Thats an out 70% of a time. Thats where the term "automatic out" comes from.

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Because outside of upping a pitch count a little, getting on base alone doesn't mean much
You do know that the opposite of getting on base is an out, right? I think you've officially reached the point where you are just being stubborn when it comes to this subject. You can't possibly believe some of this stuff.

Answer me this one question. If Jacoby Ellsbury is indeed an elite player with his .300 BA and 70 steals. Then why, in nearly 700 plate appearances, with guys like Pedroia, Youkilis, Bay, Martinez...hitting behind him, did he not score 100 runs last year? Giambi scored the same amount of runs in 2006 with a .253 BA in 150 fewer plate appearances. Last year JD Drew, who played on the same team, in the same park, hit .279 with 68 fewer stolen bases than Ellsbury, with Varitek, Nick Green, and Mike Lowell hitting behind him, scored more runs relative to PAs than Jacoby did.

Jacoby Ellsbury is a good, very unique player. Thats it.
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Venom
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HomieYank
Mar 18 2010, 01:13 PM
If Jacoby Ellsbury is indeed an elite player with his .300 BA and 70 steals.
Nobody said he was elite. But comparing Brett Gardner to him is silly.

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Jacoby Ellsbury is a good, very unique player. Thats it.


And Brett Gardner is not.
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HomieYank
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I get the idea Strider thinks he's a top talent. I could be wrong.

This is silly. I think Brett Gardner will get on base about 34% of the time and steal as many bases relative to times on base as Ellsbury. I think Ellsbury will get on base about 35% of the time and will hit for a higher average and hit for more "power". Since the difference in average will be mostly due to singles, and since calling anything either player does "power" is laughable, I don't consider these huge differences. I think Ellsbury is better, I think they are comparable players, especially since one will be leading off and the other hitting 9th.

Rob you are still basing every opinion you have on Gardner on nothing. By the way his spring training average has gone up 100 points in the past 3 days since you made that silly post about nobody winning your imaginary competition for the LF spot. He now has a .345 obp in spring training. I dont' think it matters, because its spring training, but I'm wondering what you think of it. My guess is spring training stats don't count if he's hitting well. Kinda like regular season stats.
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Mattingly23
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I'm shocked nobody has suggested Elijah Dukes yet. Actually I guess I will. I wouldn't be against a minor league deal for him with a zero tolerance policy on behavior problems. Let him go to Scranton for awhile and think about him for left later in the year if things aren't going well with the current crop.
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HomieYank
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Mattingly23
Mar 18 2010, 09:41 PM
I'm shocked nobody has suggested Elijah Dukes yet. Actually I guess I will. I wouldn't be against a minor league deal for him with a zero tolerance policy on behavior problems. Let him go to Scranton for awhile and think about him for left later in the year if things aren't going well with the current crop.
I like Dukes a lot. I approve.
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HomieYank
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Not only playing everyday, but on pace or 113 runs, 60 steals, .313, .400, .422. The 119 runs would be 20 (yes 20) more than Ellsbury has ever scored, and literally the only difference between the two seasons would be Gardner's edge in walks and OBP (hmmmmm, wonder what that means about the importance of walks and obp?).

When I said Jacoby Ellsbury would bat 9th on the Yankees I got laughed at, well now we have the EXACT SAME player (well actually he's slightly better now, but is sure to regress a bit), and guess where he's batting... Gadzooks! 9th!!!

Not bad for a 4th OFer at best who shouldn't be on the roster and isn't a ML player.
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Grandy4MVP
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HomieYank
Jun 14 2010, 09:59 AM
Not only playing everyday, but on pace or 113 runs, 60 steals, .313, .400, .422. The 119 runs would be 20 (yes 20) more than Ellsbury has ever scored, and literally the only difference between the two seasons would be Gardner's edge in walks and OBP (hmmmmm, wonder what that means about the importance of walks and obp?).

When I said Jacoby Ellsbury would bat 9th on the Yankees I got laughed at, well now we have the EXACT SAME player (well actually he's slightly better now, but is sure to regress a bit), and guess where he's batting... Gadzooks! 9th!!!

Not bad for a 4th OFer at best who shouldn't be on the roster and isn't a ML player.
:thumbup: I'm pleasantly surprised.
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Strider
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I stand by what I said before about Ellsbury and his being underrated by some of you. As for Gardner, I supported the decision to start him. Argued that with a few people in the offseason and I'd said that if he got 500 at-bats, I'd see him hitting .265-.270 with a .340 OBP and stealing 45-50 bases. That, combined with his range in the outfield, would add up to a quality starter. Said then that I'd rather have him starting in LF than Damon and I didn't mind the offseason moves. Gardner has surprised a little. His slumps haven't lasted long, he seems to be making better contact (more often and hitting the ball more solidly) and he's on pace for more steals than I'd have guessed. I do expect the average to drop off, and he might wind up around .280/.350, but that's good enough with everything else he brings to the table.
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Grandy4MVP
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Strider
Jun 14 2010, 02:56 PM
I stand by what I said before about Ellsbury and his being underrated by some of you. As for Gardner, I supported the decision to start him. Argued that with a few people in the offseason and I'd said that if he got 500 at-bats, I'd see him hitting .265-.270 with a .340 OBP and stealing 45-50 bases. That, combined with his range in the outfield, would add up to a quality starter. Said then that I'd rather have him starting in LF than Damon and I didn't mind the offseason moves. Gardner has surprised a little. His slumps haven't lasted long, he seems to be making better contact (more often and hitting the ball more solidly) and he's on pace for more steals than I'd have guessed. I do expect the average to drop off, and he might wind up around .280/.350, but that's good enough with everything else he brings to the table.
I think the biggest mistake was made at the DH spot. I think bringing Johnson in with his history of injuries was a mistake. If you had Damon you could DH him a lot and play him in the outfield as well. So you wouldn't tie the DH spot up completely but you could have plugged Damon there a few games a week and Gardner though maybe not playing everyday still would have had a bunch of playing time especially with all the injuries.
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ONE-BUY-ONE
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ONE-BUY-ONE
Mar 15 2010, 06:32 AM
I will stick with Gardner because he has proven he can play with a W>S> winner. He should improve.
Nice call "one" You winning the battles onebuyone....
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HomieYank
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As for Gardner, I supported the decision to start him. Argued that with a few people in the offseason and I'd said that if he got 500 at-bats, I'd see him hitting .265-.270 with a .340 OBP and stealing 45-50 bases. That, combined with his range in the outfield, would add up to a quality starter
Yeah? thats pretty much what I assumed he'd do. For all I've defended the guy, his season is actually surprising me too.

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and he's on pace for more steals than I'd have guessed.
actually i'm surprised he isn't stealing more bases. He's faster than Ellsbury and is almost as good a baserunner. With a .400 obp and so few extra base hits I'm surprised he's not on pace for 70 steals.
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