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My Tentative Lineup For Next Year
Topic Started: Aug 14 2008, 10:14 AM (856 Views)
HendoBaby
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I'm hoping Dice-K f*cks up his arm really bad. He throws lots of off-speed, gets in bunches of trouble with walks, he was with Japan throwing tons of pitches for years, and he's had a few arm issues already. Let's just hope
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Strider
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Homie, I don't want Asian pitchers because I'm racist. I wasn't high on Matsuzaka when the Yankees were in the running either. And, like House said, he's probably not long for this sport. He was throwing like a Cuban in his high school days, he isn't that durable and he's a pretty old 29. He's like the running back who started every game from his freshman year and carried it a ton every year in the SEC. By the time he gets to the NFL, he's experienced and can be really productive, but he's only 22 on his birth certificate.

And Darvish, to me, doesn't look to have it. I said it in the first thread where someone posted the YouTube link. I don't like his build, his motion, his delivery or his release point. I don't remember what I'd found in it, but something in it had me thinking he's one bad step or slip from an injury. And that sidearm curveball/slider combo sh*t reminded me too much of Jeff Weaver. Really, that's who he looked like. I'd rather the Yankees show no interest and focus their money and effort elsewhere. I'll live with it if he signs with the Dodgers or Angels and goes 16-5 with a 3.20 ERA.
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HendoBaby
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You're right on Darvish, Strider. I think I posted the highlight. At first I was looking at the results like an idiot. But really, his ball doesn't have great natural movement to it at all. I was blown away with Dice-K's highlights before he came here. Darvish doesn't really have impressive looking stuff, at least from those clips
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Venom
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DrGregoryHouse
Aug 15 2008, 09:05 AM
You're right on Darvish, Strider. I think I posted the highlight. At first I was looking at the results like an idiot. But really, his ball doesn't have great natural movement to it at all. I was blown away with Dice-K's highlights before he came here. Darvish doesn't really have impressive looking stuff, at least from those clips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h26pkQpVB1I


If you see that slider as being anything less than dynamic you are blind.
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HendoBaby
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Venom
Aug 15 2008, 08:49 AM
DrGregoryHouse
Aug 15 2008, 09:05 AM
You're right on Darvish, Strider. I think I posted the highlight. At first I was looking at the results like an idiot. But really, his ball doesn't have great natural movement to it at all. I was blown away with Dice-K's highlights before he came here. Darvish doesn't really have impressive looking stuff, at least from those clips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h26pkQpVB1I


If you see that slider as being anything less than dynamic you are blind.

It's good. It ain't great. The Japanese ballplayers swinging wildly at it are the joke of that clip. A slider is supposed to look like a strike and then break. A lot of times, those sliders never even appeared to be strikes. They also didn't have a dramatic break to them. They appeared slow and went down and away without much of a break. Watch when Joba eats up a lefty with a slider down and in, how the slider appears to be a strike and then totally breaks fast and sharp. Darvish don't have that. Hell, I can see a good lefty golfing one of those sliders out of the park. It certainly doesn't look very fast. A major league hitter could wait back on that. He could only get our hitters out on those. His fastball don't look anything special, and we all know, pitchers gotta play off their fastball in the bigs.
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Strider
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Aug 15 2008, 09:49 AM
DrGregoryHouse
Aug 15 2008, 09:05 AM
You're right on Darvish, Strider. I think I posted the highlight. At first I was looking at the results like an idiot. But really, his ball doesn't have great natural movement to it at all. I was blown away with Dice-K's highlights before he came here. Darvish doesn't really have impressive looking stuff, at least from those clips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h26pkQpVB1I


If you see that slider as being anything less than dynamic you are blind.

It's a f*cking highlight reel. They're not gonna put anything in there that looks bad. The chinky highlight reels also said Kaz Matsui could play shortstop pretty well. And, if you recall, Jose Contreras' forkball/splitter looked "dynamic" too.

Watch this. Reggie Bush looked real dynamic, didn't he? I would throw in a Colt Brennan highlight reel, but you get the point.
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Venom
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DrGregoryHouse
Aug 15 2008, 10:16 AM
Venom
Aug 15 2008, 08:49 AM
DrGregoryHouse
Aug 15 2008, 09:05 AM
You're right on Darvish, Strider. I think I posted the highlight. At first I was looking at the results like an idiot. But really, his ball doesn't have great natural movement to it at all. I was blown away with Dice-K's highlights before he came here. Darvish doesn't really have impressive looking stuff, at least from those clips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h26pkQpVB1I


If you see that slider as being anything less than dynamic you are blind.

It's good. It ain't great. The Japanese ballplayers swinging wildly at it are the joke of that clip. A slider is supposed to look like a strike and then break. A lot of times, those sliders never even appeared to be strikes. They also didn't have a dramatic break to them. They appeared slow and went down and away without much of a break. Watch when Joba eats up a lefty with a slider down and in, how the slider appears to be a strike and then totally breaks fast and sharp. Darvish don't have that. Hell, I can see a good lefty golfing one of those sliders out of the park. It certainly doesn't look very fast. A major league hitter could wait back on that. He could only get our hitters out on those. His fastball don't look anything special, and we all know, pitchers gotta play off their fastball in the bigs.

No speed? His slider averages 85 mph, the same as Joba. You wrote a big block of text analyzing something and not knowing what you are talking about. Darvish's secondary pitches might not be great, but his slider is awesome and that's not up for debate. Anybody who has seen him pitch, and who knows what they are talking about, will agree and have already agreed.
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moomoo24
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Darvish also has age on his side and is probably going to get better. But for the amount of money its going to cost to just talk to him I want Brendan Frazier in The Scout type talent.
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Strider
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Venom
Aug 15 2008, 11:49 AM
DrGregoryHouse
Aug 15 2008, 10:16 AM
Venom
Aug 15 2008, 08:49 AM
DrGregoryHouse
Aug 15 2008, 09:05 AM
You're right on Darvish, Strider. I think I posted the highlight. At first I was looking at the results like an idiot. But really, his ball doesn't have great natural movement to it at all. I was blown away with Dice-K's highlights before he came here. Darvish doesn't really have impressive looking stuff, at least from those clips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h26pkQpVB1I


If you see that slider as being anything less than dynamic you are blind.

It's good. It ain't great. The Japanese ballplayers swinging wildly at it are the joke of that clip. A slider is supposed to look like a strike and then break. A lot of times, those sliders never even appeared to be strikes. They also didn't have a dramatic break to them. They appeared slow and went down and away without much of a break. Watch when Joba eats up a lefty with a slider down and in, how the slider appears to be a strike and then totally breaks fast and sharp. Darvish don't have that. Hell, I can see a good lefty golfing one of those sliders out of the park. It certainly doesn't look very fast. A major league hitter could wait back on that. He could only get our hitters out on those. His fastball don't look anything special, and we all know, pitchers gotta play off their fastball in the bigs.

No speed? His slider averages 85 mph, the same as Joba. You wrote a big block of text analyzing something and not knowing what you are talking about. Darvish's secondary pitches might not be great, but his slider is awesome and that's not up for debate. Anybody who has seen him pitch, and who knows what they are talking about, will agree and have already agreed.

Let's say the slider is awesome (like Dice-K's gyroball, which we've yet to see here). So? A lot of pitchers have an awesome pitch. Does that make them awesome pitchers? Like I said, the scouts, and anyone who knew what they were talking about, raved about Contreras' forkball.
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Mattingly23
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Posting feels, while crazy, aren't the part that really bothers me, although they do a little bit since they keep rising at unreasonable percentages.

It's the long-term, big money, MLB contracts for guys who still have to prove themselves at the highest level that really piss me off. So if they were to post $1 billion dollars (pinky to mouth), I wouldn't be too upset, as long as the contract were 3 years, $15 million with arbitration rights, not free agency like Matsui, following those years.

The idea of Igawa getting a five-year deal bothers me more than the posting fee, even though I think that was a waste of money too.

If Darvish pitched well for those first 3 years at $5 million a pop, he'd cash in through arbitration, or by getting offered a long-term deal. If he struggled, they wouldn't offer arbitration, and away he goes.

Then I'd support going after him.
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Venom
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Strider
Aug 15 2008, 11:57 AM
Venom
Aug 15 2008, 11:49 AM
DrGregoryHouse
Aug 15 2008, 10:16 AM
Venom
Aug 15 2008, 08:49 AM
DrGregoryHouse
Aug 15 2008, 09:05 AM
You're right on Darvish, Strider. I think I posted the highlight. At first I was looking at the results like an idiot. But really, his ball doesn't have great natural movement to it at all. I was blown away with Dice-K's highlights before he came here. Darvish doesn't really have impressive looking stuff, at least from those clips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h26pkQpVB1I


If you see that slider as being anything less than dynamic you are blind.

It's good. It ain't great. The Japanese ballplayers swinging wildly at it are the joke of that clip. A slider is supposed to look like a strike and then break. A lot of times, those sliders never even appeared to be strikes. They also didn't have a dramatic break to them. They appeared slow and went down and away without much of a break. Watch when Joba eats up a lefty with a slider down and in, how the slider appears to be a strike and then totally breaks fast and sharp. Darvish don't have that. Hell, I can see a good lefty golfing one of those sliders out of the park. It certainly doesn't look very fast. A major league hitter could wait back on that. He could only get our hitters out on those. His fastball don't look anything special, and we all know, pitchers gotta play off their fastball in the bigs.

No speed? His slider averages 85 mph, the same as Joba. You wrote a big block of text analyzing something and not knowing what you are talking about. Darvish's secondary pitches might not be great, but his slider is awesome and that's not up for debate. Anybody who has seen him pitch, and who knows what they are talking about, will agree and have already agreed.

Let's say the slider is awesome (like Dice-K's gyroball, which we've yet to see here). So? A lot of pitchers have an awesome pitch. Does that make them awesome pitchers? Like I said, the scouts, and anyone who knew what they were talking about, raved about Contreras' forkball.

Did I say he was an awesome pitcher? I'm talking about his 1 pitch. If I'm Cashman I sign Sabathia, and then either Sheets or Burnett.
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Strider
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Venom
Aug 15 2008, 12:05 PM
Strider
Aug 15 2008, 11:57 AM
Venom
Aug 15 2008, 11:49 AM
DrGregoryHouse
Aug 15 2008, 10:16 AM
Venom
Aug 15 2008, 08:49 AM
DrGregoryHouse
Aug 15 2008, 09:05 AM
You're right on Darvish, Strider. I think I posted the highlight. At first I was looking at the results like an idiot. But really, his ball doesn't have great natural movement to it at all. I was blown away with Dice-K's highlights before he came here. Darvish doesn't really have impressive looking stuff, at least from those clips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h26pkQpVB1I


If you see that slider as being anything less than dynamic you are blind.

It's good. It ain't great. The Japanese ballplayers swinging wildly at it are the joke of that clip. A slider is supposed to look like a strike and then break. A lot of times, those sliders never even appeared to be strikes. They also didn't have a dramatic break to them. They appeared slow and went down and away without much of a break. Watch when Joba eats up a lefty with a slider down and in, how the slider appears to be a strike and then totally breaks fast and sharp. Darvish don't have that. Hell, I can see a good lefty golfing one of those sliders out of the park. It certainly doesn't look very fast. A major league hitter could wait back on that. He could only get our hitters out on those. His fastball don't look anything special, and we all know, pitchers gotta play off their fastball in the bigs.

No speed? His slider averages 85 mph, the same as Joba. You wrote a big block of text analyzing something and not knowing what you are talking about. Darvish's secondary pitches might not be great, but his slider is awesome and that's not up for debate. Anybody who has seen him pitch, and who knows what they are talking about, will agree and have already agreed.

Let's say the slider is awesome (like Dice-K's gyroball, which we've yet to see here). So? A lot of pitchers have an awesome pitch. Does that make them awesome pitchers? Like I said, the scouts, and anyone who knew what they were talking about, raved about Contreras' forkball.

Did I say he was an awesome pitcher? I'm talking about his 1 pitch. If I'm Cashman I sign Sabathia, and then either Sheets or Burnett.

So if that's your thought, why the f*ck are we talking about Darvish?
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Mantlemurcer
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Forget Burnett, that pussy. He wouldn't do sh*t here.
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Strider
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Mantlemurcer
Aug 15 2008, 12:25 PM
Forget Burnett, that pussy.  He wouldn't do sh*t here.

He'd make three starts and then complain of a "twinge" in his elbow. Plus, we can't be the only ones bothered by the fact that it's the first time in his career that his record is considerably above .500 but he's got a 4.67 ERA and 1.44 WHIP with it. He and Sheets are injury risks, but at least Sheets is younger and hasn't had as many false-start seasons in his career.
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HomieYank
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Strider, Jose Contreras' forkball is dynamic. He gets into trouble because he doesn't throw hard anymore and his control is crap.

With hitters I agree that proving ones self is important. But if you have seen somebody pitch enough, you know what they can do, regardless of who it is against. Some pitchers come over here and suck because their stuff regresses or because they get hurt, or because they just stop being good, but the exact same thing can happen with a free agent pitcher.

For the record I haven't seen Darvis pitch and I'm not saying I think we should get him.
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ONE-BUY-ONE
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Mantlemurcer
Aug 14 2008, 11:40 AM
What is with the DeJesus dick riding?


Matsui can't play the OF any more. They should move him in a deal.

Matsui won't be dealt. Put money on it, so rewrite your dream team, ok? :no:
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Mattingly23
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ONE-BUY-ONE
Aug 15 2008, 12:38 PM
Mantlemurcer
Aug 14 2008, 11:40 AM
What is with the DeJesus dick riding?


Matsui can't play the OF any more.  They should move him  in a deal.

Matsui won't be dealt. Put money on it, so rewrite your dream team, ok? :no:

If Matsui isn't dealt, no additional DHs or OFs can be acquired, and be expected to play.
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Strider
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HomieYank
Aug 15 2008, 12:33 PM
Strider, Jose Contreras' forkball is dynamic.  He gets into trouble because he doesn't throw hard anymore and his control is crap.

With hitters I agree that proving ones self is important.  But if you have seen somebody pitch enough, you know what they can do, regardless of who it is against.  Some pitchers come over here and suck because their stuff regresses or because they get hurt, or because they just stop being good, but the exact same thing can happen with a free agent pitcher.

For the record I haven't seen Darvis pitch and I'm not saying I think we should get him.

I wasn't saying that Contreras' forkball wasn't good. Because I remember it. I remember when he got on a roll in 2003 and Michael Kay started that corny, "Roger Clemens calls his Mr. Splitee. Would Contreras' be Senior Splitee?" foolishness. But that pitch didn't make a great pitcher. My point was to counter Rob's belief in Darvish because of the dynamicness (don't know if that's a word) of his slider.

And the part about "you know what they can do, regardless of who it's against" I really disagree with. I think you're saying that stuff is stuff and if the talent is there, it's there. True. But you're not factoring in nerves and adjustments to better competition. You could have a pitcher with three great pitches, all the stuff, but he shits himself and can't throw strikes on the MLB stage. Or he has some of his good pitches (in good locations, too) redirected for bombs and loses confidence. That step is a big one, and it weeds out a lot of motherf*ckers who are talented but still ain't fit for the grind. Or the pitcher could show that stuff at lower levels and then somehow, unbeknownst to anyone, lose some of it and turn into an injury-prone twat like Phil Hughes.
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ONE-BUY-ONE
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Strider
Aug 15 2008, 08:03 AM
Homie, I don't want Asian pitchers because I'm racist. I wasn't high on Matsuzaka when the Yankees were in the running either. And, like House said, he's probably not long for this sport. He was throwing like a Cuban in his high school days, he isn't that durable and he's a pretty old 29. He's like the running back who started every game from his freshman year and carried it a ton every year in the SEC. By the time he gets to the NFL, he's experienced and can be really productive, but he's only 22 on his birth certificate.

And Darvish, to me, doesn't look to have it. I said it in the first thread where someone posted the YouTube link. I don't like his build, his motion, his delivery or his release point. I don't remember what I'd found in it, but something in it had me thinking he's one bad step or slip from an injury. And that sidearm curveball/slider combo sh*t reminded me too much of Jeff Weaver. Really, that's who he looked like. I'd rather the Yankees show no interest and focus their money and effort elsewhere. I'll live with it if he signs with the Dodgers or Angels and goes 16-5 with a 3.20 ERA.

This Asian pitcher, with a 14-2 record, with an ERA of about 2.48 single handedly gets the Red Sox to the playoffs. Without this Asian Red Sox would be sitting or shitting like us Yankee fans. :no1:
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Mattingly23
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OBO, since when did you get all PC and start calling them Asians? You were the one who got us started on these boards referring to them as Orientals!
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Mattingly23
Aug 15 2008, 11:43 AM
ONE-BUY-ONE
Aug 15 2008, 12:38 PM
Mantlemurcer
Aug 14 2008, 11:40 AM
What is with the DeJesus dick riding?


Matsui can't play the OF any more.  They should move him  in a deal.

Matsui won't be dealt. Put money on it, so rewrite your dream team, ok? :no:

If Matsui isn't dealt, no additional DHs or OFs can be acquired, and be expected to play.

1. Management loves a Matsui (a team player and only one the Yankees have)

2. Too many economics involved via Japan.

3. Matsui has the best average in knocking in runs with runners on base.
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Mattingly23
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1. They entertained dealing him last offseason.

2. They can't do everything based on the Japanese revenues, if it hurts the team on the field.

3. He has basically missed most of two of the past three seasons. He can't drive in runs when he's on the DL. He's past his prime.
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ONE-BUY-ONE
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Mattingly23
Aug 15 2008, 12:08 PM
1. They entertained dealing him last offseason.

2. They can't do everything based on the Japanese revenues, if it hurts the team on the field.

3. He has basically missed most of two of the past three seasons. He can't drive in runs when he's on the DL. He's past his prime.

If anyone goes it should be Posada. But you might be right since Matsui only has one year left on his contract. I'd just hate to see him go because I still believe he'll be productive, strictly as a DH/pinch hitter. I don't expect any outfield for him at all.
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Mattingly23
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Of course Posada being moved would be great, but that's impossible given his contractual situation.
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Mattingly23
Aug 15 2008, 12:01 PM
OBO, since when did you get all PC and start calling them Asians? You were the one who got us started on these boards referring to them as Orientals!

You know I was being sarcastic. I look at ball players that play the game right with the right attitude. That's why I will always veto someone like Manny Ramirez. Matsui next year for a rotational DH and pinch hitter. Matsui still has value for 2009.
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ONE-BUY-ONE
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Is it true the Joe G wants the job if his present gig doesn't pan out? :dunno:
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Strider
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Aug 15 2008, 01:00 PM
Strider
Aug 15 2008, 08:03 AM
Homie, I don't want Asian pitchers because I'm racist. I wasn't high on Matsuzaka when the Yankees were in the running either. And, like House said, he's probably not long for this sport. He was throwing like a Cuban in his high school days, he isn't that durable and he's a pretty old 29. He's like the running back who started every game from his freshman year and carried it a ton every year in the SEC. By the time he gets to the NFL, he's experienced and can be really productive, but he's only 22 on his birth certificate.

And Darvish, to me, doesn't look to have it. I said it in the first thread where someone posted the YouTube link. I don't like his build, his motion, his delivery or his release point. I don't remember what I'd found in it, but something in it had me thinking he's one bad step or slip from an injury. And that sidearm curveball/slider combo sh*t reminded me too much of Jeff Weaver. Really, that's who he looked like. I'd rather the Yankees show no interest and focus their money and effort elsewhere. I'll live with it if he signs with the Dodgers or Angels and goes 16-5 with a 3.20 ERA.

This Asian pitcher, with a 14-2 record, with an ERA of about 2.48 single handedly gets the Red Sox to the playoffs. Without this Asian Red Sox would be sitting or shitting like us Yankee fans. :no1:

Good for that Asian pitcher and the Red Sox. But that other gook can go f*ck himself.
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HendoBaby
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Venom
Aug 15 2008, 10:49 AM
DrGregoryHouse
Aug 15 2008, 10:16 AM
Venom
Aug 15 2008, 08:49 AM
DrGregoryHouse
Aug 15 2008, 09:05 AM
You're right on Darvish, Strider. I think I posted the highlight. At first I was looking at the results like an idiot. But really, his ball doesn't have great natural movement to it at all. I was blown away with Dice-K's highlights before he came here. Darvish doesn't really have impressive looking stuff, at least from those clips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h26pkQpVB1I


If you see that slider as being anything less than dynamic you are blind.

It's good. It ain't great. The Japanese ballplayers swinging wildly at it are the joke of that clip. A slider is supposed to look like a strike and then break. A lot of times, those sliders never even appeared to be strikes. They also didn't have a dramatic break to them. They appeared slow and went down and away without much of a break. Watch when Joba eats up a lefty with a slider down and in, how the slider appears to be a strike and then totally breaks fast and sharp. Darvish don't have that. Hell, I can see a good lefty golfing one of those sliders out of the park. It certainly doesn't look very fast. A major league hitter could wait back on that. He could only get our hitters out on those. His fastball don't look anything special, and we all know, pitchers gotta play off their fastball in the bigs.

No speed? His slider averages 85 mph, the same as Joba. You wrote a big block of text analyzing something and not knowing what you are talking about. Darvish's secondary pitches might not be great, but his slider is awesome and that's not up for debate. Anybody who has seen him pitch, and who knows what they are talking about, will agree and have already agreed.

I've watched that clip you posted twice and I'll watch it again. Where exactly does his slider start off looking like a strike and break off the table? Maybe the speed is the same as Joba, I dunno, but the break to it certainly ain't impressing me.
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HendoBaby
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At 22 seconds is a real tight, nice slider. That's about all I'm seeing that would make you bust over it. Can't you see the others that almost look like a curve? Their break doesn't look that great
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Grandy4MVP
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Bottom line is this, I spent two weeks in Tampa back in 2003 and watched Jose C pitch a lot, that cat was FLAT OUT AWESOME. WICKED!!!! Shocked he never won a CY Young but from August of 2004 to about October of 2005 this guy was simply one of the best pitchers in baseball and he finally put it all together. That splitter he threw which was more like a knuckle split, was flat out nasty!!!! Oh man was he something for a very short period! I thought he'd be that here, but he never was.
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