|
Cashman" no trade market - ZERO"
|
|
Topic Started: Jun 16 2008, 06:02 PM (320 Views)
|
|
Bleedrngrblue
|
Jun 16 2008, 09:29 PM
Post #31
|
Is there any fight left in the dog.....?
- Posts:
- 4,046
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #375
- Joined:
- April 28, 2005
|
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:27 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:22 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:10 PM
What will you say if Horne struggles when he first comes up? You have the patience of a gnat.
When are you going to realize that Hughes wasn't "auditioning", he was counted on to pitch COMPETENTLY as a 3 or 4 in the rotation, based on his "audition" last year! Why should he be cut any slack? These boards are merciless on pitchers ALOT better than he will ever be. I don't get your Hughes love....but I don't bash you for having patience to wait on him. I've watched the Yankees alot longer than you...and seen them suck for long stretches including all of the 80's and early 90's. I have helped pay for countless Yankee contracts by buying tons of memorabilia and merchandise. I've seen the Militello's and Lilly's come and go,the Maas's and the Balboni's shine and fade. If I want to dislike Phil Hughes and his soft mentality..its my perogative, I don't need or ask for anyones approval! You root your way...I'll root mine! BTW... if Horne sucks after parts of 2 season like Hughes....he can feck off as well!
Yeah great, I have seen all of those guys too. If you think Sam Militello was even a real prospect, you're even more lost than I ever imagined. Hughes is nothing like those guys. Everyone in baseball loves Hughes. Militello was a nobody who came up and performed on a bad team for a couple of months, as was Maas. Hughes is considered one of the best young pitchers to come up in the past several years. He's 21 years old. In other words, he's the equivalent of a kid who just finished his junior year of college. Only an idiot wouldn't give him more of a shot than 19 starts.
Cry me a river.........excuses are like assholes and they usually stink! I even got tired of you guys posing excuses for his lack of velocity! Everyone else in Baseball had a different space time continueum to pitch in I guess! The laws of physics were different for poor little Philly Hughes! Thats why he had no giddyup on his fastball!
|
|
|
| |
|
Mattingly23
|
Jun 16 2008, 09:31 PM
Post #32
|
- Posts:
- 18,455
- Group:
- Moderator
- Member
- #74
- Joined:
- April 29, 2004
|
Where was the crying? There's no crying in baseball. There's idiots though.
|
|
|
| |
|
Yanksfan03
|
Jun 16 2008, 09:32 PM
Post #33
|
VC 4 Life.
- Posts:
- 23,470
- Group:
- VC_Members
- Member
- #56
- Joined:
- April 28, 2004
|
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:25 PM
- Yanksfan03
- Jun 16 2008, 09:20 PM
I have to admit, Hughes was pissing me off too. But that's mainly because you can see the talent is there. He just needs to relax and let it take over. Hopefully we see a different pitcher when he comes back.
Also, they held on to this guy rather than trade him for Santana. It'd be idiotic to turn around now and deal him for Sabathia in what would be a clear panic move. Especially since Sabathia will likely test the market this offseason.
Yf......I wouldn't trade Hughes for CC without a window of negotiation to sign him long term first! But I would trade him for him!
:no1:
|
|
|
| |
|
Bleedrngrblue
|
Jun 16 2008, 09:33 PM
Post #34
|
Is there any fight left in the dog.....?
- Posts:
- 4,046
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #375
- Joined:
- April 28, 2005
|
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:31 PM
Where was the crying? There's no crying in baseball. There's idiots though.
I count you and your sarcasm amongst them on occasions such as this!
|
|
|
| |
|
Bleedrngrblue
|
Jun 16 2008, 09:34 PM
Post #35
|
Is there any fight left in the dog.....?
- Posts:
- 4,046
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #375
- Joined:
- April 28, 2005
|
- Yanksfan03
- Jun 16 2008, 09:32 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:25 PM
- Yanksfan03
- Jun 16 2008, 09:20 PM
I have to admit, Hughes was pissing me off too. But that's mainly because you can see the talent is there. He just needs to relax and let it take over. Hopefully we see a different pitcher when he comes back.
Also, they held on to this guy rather than trade him for Santana. It'd be idiotic to turn around now and deal him for Sabathia in what would be a clear panic move. Especially since Sabathia will likely test the market this offseason.
Yf......I wouldn't trade Hughes for CC without a window of negotiation to sign him long term first! But I would trade him for him! :no1:
You're getting delusional now if you think Hughes is going to be better than Sabathia! You must have swallowed the pill! How does the matrix look?
|
|
|
| |
|
Yanksfan03
|
Jun 16 2008, 09:36 PM
Post #36
|
VC 4 Life.
- Posts:
- 23,470
- Group:
- VC_Members
- Member
- #56
- Joined:
- April 28, 2004
|
Where did I say he would be better? What I did say was you don't trade a talented 21 year old who you held onto instead of getting the game's best pitcher after only 19 starts. Period. Sometimes you have to take risks. If the Yankees want Sabathia bad enough, they'll try hard to sign him in the offseason if they can't get him in a trade not involving Hughes.
|
|
|
| |
|
Bleedrngrblue
|
Jun 16 2008, 09:39 PM
Post #37
|
Is there any fight left in the dog.....?
- Posts:
- 4,046
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #375
- Joined:
- April 28, 2005
|
- Yanksfan03
- Jun 16 2008, 09:36 PM
Where did I say he would be better? What I did say was you don't trade a talented 21 year old who you held onto instead of getting the game's best pitcher after only 19 starts. Period. Sometimes you have to take risks. If the Yankees want Sabathia bad enough, they'll try hard to sign him in the offseason if they can't get him in a trade not involving Hughes.
So if he's on the market next month you say pass? They are going to want our TOP prospect I'm sure....which you all seem to think Hughes is, so without him there will be no deal!
|
|
|
| |
|
Yanksfan03
|
Jun 16 2008, 09:43 PM
Post #38
|
VC 4 Life.
- Posts:
- 23,470
- Group:
- VC_Members
- Member
- #56
- Joined:
- April 28, 2004
|
Well, no deal then, I'm not as enamored with Sabathia as some others are anyway. He's a good pitcher but he doesn't put us over the top.
|
|
|
| |
|
Bleedrngrblue
|
Jun 16 2008, 09:47 PM
Post #39
|
Is there any fight left in the dog.....?
- Posts:
- 4,046
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #375
- Joined:
- April 28, 2005
|
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:27 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:22 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:10 PM
What will you say if Horne struggles when he first comes up? You have the patience of a gnat.
When are you going to realize that Hughes wasn't "auditioning", he was counted on to pitch COMPETENTLY as a 3 or 4 in the rotation, based on his "audition" last year! Why should he be cut any slack? These boards are merciless on pitchers ALOT better than he will ever be. I don't get your Hughes love....but I don't bash you for having patience to wait on him. I've watched the Yankees alot longer than you...and seen them suck for long stretches including all of the 80's and early 90's. I have helped pay for countless Yankee contracts by buying tons of memorabilia and merchandise. I've seen the Militello's and Lilly's come and go,the Maas's and the Balboni's shine and fade. If I want to dislike Phil Hughes and his soft mentality..its my perogative, I don't need or ask for anyones approval! You root your way...I'll root mine! BTW... if Horne sucks after parts of 2 season like Hughes....he can feck off as well!
Yeah great, I have seen all of those guys too. If you think Sam Militello was even a real prospect, you're even more lost than I ever imagined. Hughes is nothing like those guys. Everyone in baseball loves Hughes. Militello was a nobody who came up and performed on a bad team for a couple of months, as was Maas. Hughes is considered one of the best young pitchers to come up in the past several years. He's 21 years old. In other words, he's the equivalent of a kid who just finished his junior year of college. Only an idiot wouldn't give him more of a shot than 19 starts.
[/B]Everyone in baseball loves Hughes
Where did you get the authority to speak for all of MLB about Hughes? I know a team in Minnesota that laughs about him alot when he is mentioned!
|
|
|
| |
|
Bleedrngrblue
|
Jun 16 2008, 09:49 PM
Post #40
|
Is there any fight left in the dog.....?
- Posts:
- 4,046
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #375
- Joined:
- April 28, 2005
|
- Yanksfan03
- Jun 16 2008, 09:43 PM
Well, no deal then, I'm not as enamored with Sabathia as some others are anyway. He's a good pitcher but he doesn't put us over the top.
True enough....one pitcher can't put them over the top now! But he is the best pitcher available .
|
|
|
| |
|
Mattingly23
|
Jun 16 2008, 09:51 PM
Post #41
|
- Posts:
- 18,455
- Group:
- Moderator
- Member
- #74
- Joined:
- April 29, 2004
|
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:47 PM
[/B]Everyone in baseball loves Hughes
Where did you get the authority to speak for all of MLB about Hughes? I know a team in Minnesota that laughs about him alot when he is mentioned!
What are you talking about? The Twins wanted him.
|
|
|
| |
|
Bleedrngrblue
|
Jun 16 2008, 09:59 PM
Post #42
|
Is there any fight left in the dog.....?
- Posts:
- 4,046
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #375
- Joined:
- April 28, 2005
|
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:51 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:47 PM
[/B]Everyone in baseball loves Hughes
Where did you get the authority to speak for all of MLB about Hughes? I know a team in Minnesota that laughs about him alot when he is mentioned!
What are you talking about? The Twins wanted him.
And you don't think they are happy as hell they didn't land him after the early season returns on his play?
|
|
|
| |
|
Mattingly23
|
Jun 16 2008, 10:03 PM
Post #43
|
- Posts:
- 18,455
- Group:
- Moderator
- Member
- #74
- Joined:
- April 29, 2004
|
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:59 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:51 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:47 PM
[/B]Everyone in baseball loves Hughes
Where did you get the authority to speak for all of MLB about Hughes? I know a team in Minnesota that laughs about him alot when he is mentioned!
What are you talking about? The Twins wanted him.
And you don't think they are happy as hell they didn't land him after the early season returns on his play?
No, I don't think that. Baseball executives, especially ones in what are considered small markets (despite having a rich as hell owner), love getting their hands on guys like Hughes. They tend to have a little more patience than you do.
Notice they lived through Johan Santana's growing pains at the same age Hughes is now? They didn't trade Santana to win this year. They did it for the long haul, so of course they'd be patient with a young talent like Hughes.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
|
|
|
| |
|
HomieYank
|
Jun 16 2008, 10:08 PM
Post #44
|
- Posts:
- 12,064
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #198
- Joined:
- August 18, 2004
|
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 08:22 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:10 PM
What will you say if Horne struggles when he first comes up? You have the patience of a gnat.
When are you going to realize that Hughes wasn't "auditioning", he was counted on to pitch COMPETENTLY as a 3 or 4 in the rotation, based on his "audition" last year! Why should he be cut any slack? These boards are merciless on pitchers ALOT better than he will ever be. I don't get your Hughes love....but I don't bash you for having patience to wait on him. I've watched the Yankees alot longer than you...and seen them suck for long stretches including all of the 80's and early 90's. I have helped pay for countless Yankee contracts by buying tons of memorabilia and merchandise. I've seen the Militello's and Lilly's come and go,the Maas's and the Balboni's shine and fade. If I want to dislike Phil Hughes and his soft mentality..its my perogative, I don't need or ask for anyones approval! You root your way...I'll root mine! BTW... if Horne sucks after parts of 2 season like Hughes....he can feck off as well!
Ted Lilly and Sam Militello? Wow. Ted Lilly and Sam Millitello were NEVER the level of prospect Hughes is. I've already disproved your little velocity theory. He isn't a soft tosser. After his first two or three starts he was sitting 91-93 and yes, touching 95 pretty regularly. I posted the game logs somewhere around here. And whats this about Hughes sucking for two years? He had a league average era as a 20 year old in a year he was injured. His BAA was .228, 7th in the american league among starting pitchers with 60 or more innings, better than Beckett's. His whip was 1.28, which was 21st in the league among the same group. Better than Wang, Daisuke, Kazmir...
and oh by the way he had a 1.54 post season era that year
Long story short there is NO reasonable measure that shows Phil Hughes has "sucked" for two years. I can't see anyone with the information above thinking that is the case and I really hope it changes your mind. Phil Hughes has sucked for 4 of 6 starts in 08. Thats it. 4 starts, after which it was revealed he had a fractured rib. Thats not a guy you give up on. As you said, as an american you have the right to think and say whatever you want, but I would strongly advise against this particular belief as it makes you look quite misinformed.
|
|
|
| |
|
Bleedrngrblue
|
Jun 16 2008, 10:10 PM
Post #45
|
Is there any fight left in the dog.....?
- Posts:
- 4,046
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #375
- Joined:
- April 28, 2005
|
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 10:03 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:59 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:51 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:47 PM
[/B]Everyone in baseball loves Hughes
Where did you get the authority to speak for all of MLB about Hughes? I know a team in Minnesota that laughs about him alot when he is mentioned!
What are you talking about? The Twins wanted him.
And you don't think they are happy as hell they didn't land him after the early season returns on his play?
No, I don't think that. Baseball executives, especially ones in what are considered small markets (despite having a rich as hell owner), love getting their hands on guys like Hughes. They tend to have a little more patience than you do.
Notice they lived through Johan Santana's growing pains at the same age Hughes is now? They didn't trade Santana to win this year. They did it for the long haul, so of course they'd be patient with a young talent like Hughes.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
So you don't think that the fact his velocity is not as advertised., his control is not as advertised.... and his injury record is atrocious plays into this at all?
|
|
|
| |
|
HomieYank
|
Jun 16 2008, 10:10 PM
Post #46
|
- Posts:
- 12,064
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #198
- Joined:
- August 18, 2004
|
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 08:59 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:51 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:47 PM
[/B]Everyone in baseball loves Hughes
Where did you get the authority to speak for all of MLB about Hughes? I know a team in Minnesota that laughs about him alot when he is mentioned!
What are you talking about? The Twins wanted him.
And you don't think they are happy as hell they didn't land him after the early season returns on his play?
I don't think that at all. I doubt they use 4 games to evaluate pitchers.
|
|
|
| |
|
HomieYank
|
Jun 16 2008, 10:11 PM
Post #47
|
- Posts:
- 12,064
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #198
- Joined:
- August 18, 2004
|
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:10 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 10:03 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:59 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:51 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:47 PM
[/B]Everyone in baseball loves Hughes
Where did you get the authority to speak for all of MLB about Hughes? I know a team in Minnesota that laughs about him alot when he is mentioned!
What are you talking about? The Twins wanted him.
And you don't think they are happy as hell they didn't land him after the early season returns on his play?
No, I don't think that. Baseball executives, especially ones in what are considered small markets (despite having a rich as hell owner), love getting their hands on guys like Hughes. They tend to have a little more patience than you do.
Notice they lived through Johan Santana's growing pains at the same age Hughes is now? They didn't trade Santana to win this year. They did it for the long haul, so of course they'd be patient with a young talent like Hughes.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
So you don't think that the fact his velocity is not as advertised., his control is not as advertised.... and his injury record is atrocious plays into this at all?
what do you think his velocity is? I'll post the links to the games again if you want. He was 91-93 touching 94-95 after his first few starts.
|
|
|
| |
|
Bleedrngrblue
|
Jun 16 2008, 10:15 PM
Post #48
|
Is there any fight left in the dog.....?
- Posts:
- 4,046
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #375
- Joined:
- April 28, 2005
|
- HomieYank
- Jun 16 2008, 10:11 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:10 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 10:03 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:59 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:51 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:47 PM
[/B]Everyone in baseball loves Hughes
Where did you get the authority to speak for all of MLB about Hughes? I know a team in Minnesota that laughs about him alot when he is mentioned!
What are you talking about? The Twins wanted him.
And you don't think they are happy as hell they didn't land him after the early season returns on his play?
No, I don't think that. Baseball executives, especially ones in what are considered small markets (despite having a rich as hell owner), love getting their hands on guys like Hughes. They tend to have a little more patience than you do.
Notice they lived through Johan Santana's growing pains at the same age Hughes is now? They didn't trade Santana to win this year. They did it for the long haul, so of course they'd be patient with a young talent like Hughes.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
So you don't think that the fact his velocity is not as advertised., his control is not as advertised.... and his injury record is atrocious plays into this at all?
what do you think his velocity is? I'll post the links to the games again if you want. He was 91-93 touching 94-95 after his first few starts.
His velocity was 89-90 and YOU said it was the cold weather early in the season! Meanwhile the rest of MLB was zipping their fastballs at the prescribed velocity of their capabilities!
|
|
|
| |
|
Bleedrngrblue
|
Jun 16 2008, 10:17 PM
Post #49
|
Is there any fight left in the dog.....?
- Posts:
- 4,046
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #375
- Joined:
- April 28, 2005
|
- HomieYank
- Jun 16 2008, 10:08 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 08:22 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:10 PM
What will you say if Horne struggles when he first comes up? You have the patience of a gnat.
When are you going to realize that Hughes wasn't "auditioning", he was counted on to pitch COMPETENTLY as a 3 or 4 in the rotation, based on his "audition" last year! Why should he be cut any slack? These boards are merciless on pitchers ALOT better than he will ever be. I don't get your Hughes love....but I don't bash you for having patience to wait on him. I've watched the Yankees alot longer than you...and seen them suck for long stretches including all of the 80's and early 90's. I have helped pay for countless Yankee contracts by buying tons of memorabilia and merchandise. I've seen the Militello's and Lilly's come and go,the Maas's and the Balboni's shine and fade. If I want to dislike Phil Hughes and his soft mentality..its my perogative, I don't need or ask for anyones approval! You root your way...I'll root mine! BTW... if Horne sucks after parts of 2 season like Hughes....he can feck off as well!
Ted Lilly and Sam Militello? Wow. Ted Lilly and Sam Millitello were NEVER the level of prospect Hughes is. I've already disproved your little velocity theory. He isn't a soft tosser. After his first two or three starts he was sitting 91-93 and yes, touching 95 pretty regularly. I posted the game logs somewhere around here. And whats this about Hughes sucking for two years? He had a league average era as a 20 year old in a year he was injured. His BAA was .228, 7th in the american league among starting pitchers with 60 or more innings, better than Beckett's. His whip was 1.28, which was 21st in the league among the same group. Better than Wang, Daisuke, Kazmir... and oh by the way he had a 1.54 post season era that year Long story short there is NO reasonable measure that shows Phil Hughes has "sucked" for two years. I can't see anyone with the information above thinking that is the case and I really hope it changes your mind. Phil Hughes has sucked for 4 of 6 starts in 08. Thats it. 4 starts, after which it was revealed he had a fractured rib. Thats not a guy you give up on. As you said, as an american you have the right to think and say whatever you want, but I would strongly advise against this particular belief as it makes you look quite misinformed.
As I stated in an earlier post...he's injury prone, his velocity is not what it was advertised, and his control was bad this season. Please don't pretend like the rib injury was the problem all along. That manifested itself in his last start!
|
|
|
| |
|
YankeeBaseball
|
Jun 16 2008, 10:37 PM
Post #50
|
- Posts:
- 14,555
- Group:
- VC_Members
- Member
- #48
- Joined:
- April 24, 2004
|
At this point, I'd keep Hughes, Brackman, Betances and Action Jackson. Anyone else (including Tabitha) should be open for discussion in my book. Sabathia would be a sterling addition, particularly with Wang sidelined. And even if he walks, we get the two high draft picks so we haven't really lost much anyway. If we sign him, all the better.
2009:
Sabathia Joba Wang Hughes Mussina/Horne/Rasner/McCutchen/Brackman/Betances/ etc
that's a pretty imposing rotation. :drool:
|
|
|
| |
|
HomieYank
|
Jun 16 2008, 10:37 PM
Post #51
|
- Posts:
- 12,064
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #198
- Joined:
- August 18, 2004
|
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:15 PM
- HomieYank
- Jun 16 2008, 10:11 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:10 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 10:03 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:59 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:51 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:47 PM
[/B]Everyone in baseball loves Hughes
Where did you get the authority to speak for all of MLB about Hughes? I know a team in Minnesota that laughs about him alot when he is mentioned!
What are you talking about? The Twins wanted him.
And you don't think they are happy as hell they didn't land him after the early season returns on his play?
No, I don't think that. Baseball executives, especially ones in what are considered small markets (despite having a rich as hell owner), love getting their hands on guys like Hughes. They tend to have a little more patience than you do.
Notice they lived through Johan Santana's growing pains at the same age Hughes is now? They didn't trade Santana to win this year. They did it for the long haul, so of course they'd be patient with a young talent like Hughes.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
So you don't think that the fact his velocity is not as advertised., his control is not as advertised.... and his injury record is atrocious plays into this at all?
what do you think his velocity is? I'll post the links to the games again if you want. He was 91-93 touching 94-95 after his first few starts.
His velocity was 89-90 and YOU said it was the cold weather early in the season! Meanwhile the rest of MLB was zipping their fastballs at the prescribed velocity of their capabilities!
In Hughes' most recent start he sat 91-93 with a few pitches that were 90 and a few that were 94. None were 89.
In the game before that he threw 8 first inning fastballs. 7 were 94, two were 93. Second inning he threw 4, one each of 92, 93, 94, and 95. The rest of the game 91-93 and hit 95 more
In the game before that everything was 92-93. He threw a few pitches that were 90-91, but not until the 5th inning and there weren't many.
The game before that he was 93-94 in the first inning and 90-94 in the second inning. Inconsistant velocity was probably due to the fact that he was throwing a ton of pitches and getting killed by boston while struggling to throw strikes.
So like I said, for whatever reason his first 2-3 starts his velocity was low for whatever reason. After that he was 91-93 hitting as high as 95.
|
|
|
| |
|
KOCUR
|
Jun 16 2008, 10:38 PM
Post #52
|
- Posts:
- 11,572
- Group:
- VC_Members
- Member
- #52
- Joined:
- April 27, 2004
|
10 feckn weeks....FECK!
|
|
|
| |
|
HomieYank
|
Jun 16 2008, 10:40 PM
Post #53
|
- Posts:
- 12,064
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #198
- Joined:
- August 18, 2004
|
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:17 PM
- HomieYank
- Jun 16 2008, 10:08 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 08:22 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:10 PM
What will you say if Horne struggles when he first comes up? You have the patience of a gnat.
When are you going to realize that Hughes wasn't "auditioning", he was counted on to pitch COMPETENTLY as a 3 or 4 in the rotation, based on his "audition" last year! Why should he be cut any slack? These boards are merciless on pitchers ALOT better than he will ever be. I don't get your Hughes love....but I don't bash you for having patience to wait on him. I've watched the Yankees alot longer than you...and seen them suck for long stretches including all of the 80's and early 90's. I have helped pay for countless Yankee contracts by buying tons of memorabilia and merchandise. I've seen the Militello's and Lilly's come and go,the Maas's and the Balboni's shine and fade. If I want to dislike Phil Hughes and his soft mentality..its my perogative, I don't need or ask for anyones approval! You root your way...I'll root mine! BTW... if Horne sucks after parts of 2 season like Hughes....he can feck off as well!
Ted Lilly and Sam Militello? Wow. Ted Lilly and Sam Millitello were NEVER the level of prospect Hughes is. I've already disproved your little velocity theory. He isn't a soft tosser. After his first two or three starts he was sitting 91-93 and yes, touching 95 pretty regularly. I posted the game logs somewhere around here. And whats this about Hughes sucking for two years? He had a league average era as a 20 year old in a year he was injured. His BAA was .228, 7th in the american league among starting pitchers with 60 or more innings, better than Beckett's. His whip was 1.28, which was 21st in the league among the same group. Better than Wang, Daisuke, Kazmir... and oh by the way he had a 1.54 post season era that year Long story short there is NO reasonable measure that shows Phil Hughes has "sucked" for two years. I can't see anyone with the information above thinking that is the case and I really hope it changes your mind. Phil Hughes has sucked for 4 of 6 starts in 08. Thats it. 4 starts, after which it was revealed he had a fractured rib. Thats not a guy you give up on. As you said, as an american you have the right to think and say whatever you want, but I would strongly advise against this particular belief as it makes you look quite misinformed.
As I stated in an earlier post...he's injury prone, his velocity is not what it was advertised, and his control was bad this season. Please don't pretend like the rib injury was the problem all along. That manifested itself in his last start!
I already posted the velocities from his last 4 starts. He hasn't sucked for 2 years like you said, that was my main point. I never said the rib fracture was the problem all along, but its certainly possible that something like that would effect his control if nothing else. Bottom line he doesn't need an excuse because it was 4 starts. Thus far yes, he seems to be injury prone. So was Wang at his age, so have many players been at his age. Most pitchers would kill to be in A+ ball by the time they are 20 let alone throwing no hitters in the majors
|
|
|
| |
|
Bleedrngrblue
|
Jun 16 2008, 10:46 PM
Post #54
|
Is there any fight left in the dog.....?
- Posts:
- 4,046
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #375
- Joined:
- April 28, 2005
|
- HomieYank
- Jun 16 2008, 10:37 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:15 PM
- HomieYank
- Jun 16 2008, 10:11 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:10 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 10:03 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:59 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:51 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:47 PM
[/B]Everyone in baseball loves Hughes
Where did you get the authority to speak for all of MLB about Hughes? I know a team in Minnesota that laughs about him alot when he is mentioned!
What are you talking about? The Twins wanted him.
And you don't think they are happy as hell they didn't land him after the early season returns on his play?
No, I don't think that. Baseball executives, especially ones in what are considered small markets (despite having a rich as hell owner), love getting their hands on guys like Hughes. They tend to have a little more patience than you do.
Notice they lived through Johan Santana's growing pains at the same age Hughes is now? They didn't trade Santana to win this year. They did it for the long haul, so of course they'd be patient with a young talent like Hughes.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
So you don't think that the fact his velocity is not as advertised., his control is not as advertised.... and his injury record is atrocious plays into this at all?
what do you think his velocity is? I'll post the links to the games again if you want. He was 91-93 touching 94-95 after his first few starts.
His velocity was 89-90 and YOU said it was the cold weather early in the season! Meanwhile the rest of MLB was zipping their fastballs at the prescribed velocity of their capabilities!
In Hughes' most recent start he sat 91-93 with a few pitches that were 90 and a few that were 94. None were 89.
In the game before that he threw 8 first inning fastballs. 7 were 94, two were 93. Second inning he threw 4, one each of 92, 93, 94, and 95. The rest of the game 91-93 and hit 95 more
In the game before that everything was 92-93. He threw a few pitches that were 90-91, but not until the 5th inning and there weren't many.
The game before that he was 93-94 in the first inning and 90-94 in the second inning. Inconsistant velocity was probably due to the fact that he was throwing a ton of pitches and getting killed by boston while struggling to throw strikes.
So like I said, for whatever reason his first 2-3 starts his velocity was low for whatever reason. After that he was 91-93 hitting as high as 95.
I can't argue those readings Homie. Those are the MLB ones and they are the most accurate.....I still would do Hughes for Sabathia if thats what it took.
|
|
|
| |
|
HomieYank
|
Jun 16 2008, 10:48 PM
Post #55
|
- Posts:
- 12,064
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #198
- Joined:
- August 18, 2004
|
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:46 PM
- HomieYank
- Jun 16 2008, 10:37 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:15 PM
- HomieYank
- Jun 16 2008, 10:11 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:10 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 10:03 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:59 PM
- Mattingly23
- Jun 16 2008, 09:51 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Jun 16 2008, 09:47 PM
[/B]Everyone in baseball loves Hughes
Where did you get the authority to speak for all of MLB about Hughes? I know a team in Minnesota that laughs about him alot when he is mentioned!
What are you talking about? The Twins wanted him.
And you don't think they are happy as hell they didn't land him after the early season returns on his play?
No, I don't think that. Baseball executives, especially ones in what are considered small markets (despite having a rich as hell owner), love getting their hands on guys like Hughes. They tend to have a little more patience than you do.
Notice they lived through Johan Santana's growing pains at the same age Hughes is now? They didn't trade Santana to win this year. They did it for the long haul, so of course they'd be patient with a young talent like Hughes.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
So you don't think that the fact his velocity is not as advertised., his control is not as advertised.... and his injury record is atrocious plays into this at all?
what do you think his velocity is? I'll post the links to the games again if you want. He was 91-93 touching 94-95 after his first few starts.
His velocity was 89-90 and YOU said it was the cold weather early in the season! Meanwhile the rest of MLB was zipping their fastballs at the prescribed velocity of their capabilities!
In Hughes' most recent start he sat 91-93 with a few pitches that were 90 and a few that were 94. None were 89.
In the game before that he threw 8 first inning fastballs. 7 were 94, two were 93. Second inning he threw 4, one each of 92, 93, 94, and 95. The rest of the game 91-93 and hit 95 more
In the game before that everything was 92-93. He threw a few pitches that were 90-91, but not until the 5th inning and there weren't many.
The game before that he was 93-94 in the first inning and 90-94 in the second inning. Inconsistant velocity was probably due to the fact that he was throwing a ton of pitches and getting killed by boston while struggling to throw strikes.
So like I said, for whatever reason his first 2-3 starts his velocity was low for whatever reason. After that he was 91-93 hitting as high as 95.
I can't argue those readings Homie. Those are the MLB ones and they are the most accurate.....I still would do Hughes for Sabathia if thats what it took.
I can't argue that logic. If I had a window to negotiate I'd probably do that too.
|
|
|
| |
|
Venom
|
Jun 16 2008, 11:21 PM
Post #56
|
May the Force be with you
- Posts:
- 36,293
- Group:
- Admin
- Member
- #1
- Joined:
- January 29, 2004
|
Trading Hughes for Sabathia is stupid, the guy is a free agent and the Indians are not going to re-sign him before he goes out on the market.
|
|
|
| |
|
Venom
|
Jun 16 2008, 11:24 PM
Post #57
|
May the Force be with you
- Posts:
- 36,293
- Group:
- Admin
- Member
- #1
- Joined:
- January 29, 2004
|
Cashman would look like an utter and complete fool if the trades Hughes for Sabathia, when he didn't want to trade him for Santana just a few months ago.
At this point you hold onto Hughes, he doesn't get traded for anybody.
|
|
|
| |
|
Venom
|
Jun 16 2008, 11:26 PM
Post #58
|
May the Force be with you
- Posts:
- 36,293
- Group:
- Admin
- Member
- #1
- Joined:
- January 29, 2004
|
:here: Don't mind me, just whoring through. :agent:
|
|
|
| |
|
HomieYank
|
Jun 16 2008, 11:26 PM
Post #59
|
- Posts:
- 12,064
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #198
- Joined:
- August 18, 2004
|
- Venom
- Jun 16 2008, 10:24 PM
Cashman would look like an utter and complete fool if the trades Hughes for Sabathia, when he didn't want to trade him for Santana just a few months ago.
At this point you hold onto Hughes, he doesn't get traded for anybody.
I think if it was a straight up deal Hughes might have been traded, but you're right, it won't happen and shouldn't considering Sabathia's free agency.
|
|
|
| |
|
HomieYank
|
Jun 16 2008, 11:29 PM
Post #60
|
- Posts:
- 12,064
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #198
- Joined:
- August 18, 2004
|
- Venom
- Jun 16 2008, 10:26 PM
Not bad. Reasonable and well thought out.
|
|
|
| |
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
|