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Globe claims Sox, Twins nearing deal
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Topic Started: Dec 4 2007, 09:03 AM (354 Views)
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Mantlemurcer
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Dec 4 2007, 09:03 AM
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ASHVILLE - It was after midnight in the Music City, and the Red Sox and Minnesota Twins were exchanging medical information on pitchers Johan Santana and Jon Lester, indicating that the clubs may be closing in on a deal for the two-time Cy Young Award winner. The Sox and Twins were locked in negotiations after the Yankees refused to include another top prospect, pitcher Ian Kennedy, in a package that already included top pitching prospect Phil Hughes and center fielder Melky Cabrera. It was uncertain whether the Sox also were including center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury in their offer. Any team that strikes a deal for Santana will request a 72-hour window to discuss a contract extension, with Santana believed to be looking for at least $25 million a year. As for the Twins' attempt to squeeze another pitching prospect out of New York in Kennedy, new Yankees owner Hank Steinbrenner told the New York Times, "That's not going to happen. To give up two of the three, there's no chance, not for anybody - unless it's [Sandy] Koufax, and that's not happening." :)So, does the clock run out on the Twins to get something done with the Yanks? Steinbrenner, who had insisted he would pull the Yankees' offer off the table if a deal weren't struck yesterday, insisted his deadline was real. But artificial deadlines have a tendency to evaporate (see: Rodriguez, Alex). For much of the day yesterday, radio silence descended on the Santana negotiations. Neither Theo Epstein nor Yankees GM Brian Cashman, in separate sessions with reporters, were willing to acknowledge publicly that talks were ongoing with the Twins. "Bust out the fiction," was Epstein's tongue-in-cheek recommendation to Boston reporters seeking an update on talks with the Twins. Cashman, perhaps showing sensitivity to lingering irritation from the Twins' camp over Steinbrenner's issuance of an ultimatum, was similarly disinclined to discuss Santana, though both the Yankees and Sox spoke with Twins GM Bill Smith last night. The Twins had their pick between the offers, the one from the Sox featuring Ellsbury and three other prospects, but not pitchers Lester and Clay Buchholz. Another Sox pitching prospect, Justin Masterson, almost certainly was a player the Twins wanted. A third option for Smith is to hold onto Santana until the July trading deadline and reopen the bidding then. But for all the apparent lack of movement on a deal, there was an air of expectancy that something might transpire either late last night or by morning. While fan chat boards and a Boston.com survey indicated considerable dismay at the possibility that the Sox would part with Ellsbury, baseball executives informally polled here thought the Sox should proceed with a deal for Santana, even if it cost them both Ellsbury and Lester. They likened it to the trade made 10 years ago by former Sox GM Dan Duquette, who gave up the team's top pitching prospect, Carl Pavano, and another minor league pitcher, Tony Armas Jr., in the deal that brought Pedro Martínez to the Red Sox. Two winters ago, while Epstein was on hiatus, the Sox gave up the organization's prized prospect, Hanley Ramirez, and pitching prospects in the deal that netted them 20-game winner Josh Beckett and third baseman Mike Lowell, MVP of the 2007 World Series. The Yankees, even with lefthander Andy Pettitte informing the club he will return for a 14th big-league season, would seem to have a greater need for Santana. Their rotation is aging and lacking a true No. 1 starter. The Sox potentially have Beckett, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Lester, Buchholz and veterans Curt Schilling and Tim Wakefield, but would become prohibitive favorites in the AL East if they added Santana, who will be 29 next season. "Obviously we've made calls and talked to a couple teams about deals, talked to a few agents," Epstein said yesterday afternoon, "but we don't have anything to show for it. That might be par for the course. It seems like everything's on a later schedule this year." The Yankees have shown a penchant already this fall for issuing an ultimatum, and not following through. Steinbrenner vowed he was through with Rodriguez when the slugging third baseman opted out of the final three years of his deal, then succumbed when Rodriguez, through an intermediary, let it be known he really did want to be a Yankee. If dawn breaks and the Yankees are still talking to the Twins, this latest line in the sand will have faded to dust. Link
Obviously its pure speculation by them and you can bet the Twins will try to squeeze more out of the Yankees. I know nothing about the 2 prospects the Sox mention, but no way that Crisp and Lester are better than Hughes, Melky, and whomever.
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yankeecaptain15
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Dec 4 2007, 10:06 AM
Post #2
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- Mantlemurcer
- Dec 4 2007, 08:03 AM
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ASHVILLE - It was after midnight in the Music City, and the Red Sox and Minnesota Twins were exchanging medical information on pitchers Johan Santana and Jon Lester, indicating that the clubs may be closing in on a deal for the two-time Cy Young Award winner. The Sox and Twins were locked in negotiations after the Yankees refused to include another top prospect, pitcher Ian Kennedy, in a package that already included top pitching prospect Phil Hughes and center fielder Melky Cabrera. It was uncertain whether the Sox also were including center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury in their offer. Any team that strikes a deal for Santana will request a 72-hour window to discuss a contract extension, with Santana believed to be looking for at least $25 million a year. As for the Twins' attempt to squeeze another pitching prospect out of New York in Kennedy, new Yankees owner Hank Steinbrenner told the New York Times, "That's not going to happen. To give up two of the three, there's no chance, not for anybody - unless it's [Sandy] Koufax, and that's not happening." :)So, does the clock run out on the Twins to get something done with the Yanks? Steinbrenner, who had insisted he would pull the Yankees' offer off the table if a deal weren't struck yesterday, insisted his deadline was real. But artificial deadlines have a tendency to evaporate (see: Rodriguez, Alex). For much of the day yesterday, radio silence descended on the Santana negotiations. Neither Theo Epstein nor Yankees GM Brian Cashman, in separate sessions with reporters, were willing to acknowledge publicly that talks were ongoing with the Twins. "Bust out the fiction," was Epstein's tongue-in-cheek recommendation to Boston reporters seeking an update on talks with the Twins. Cashman, perhaps showing sensitivity to lingering irritation from the Twins' camp over Steinbrenner's issuance of an ultimatum, was similarly disinclined to discuss Santana, though both the Yankees and Sox spoke with Twins GM Bill Smith last night. The Twins had their pick between the offers, the one from the Sox featuring Ellsbury and three other prospects, but not pitchers Lester and Clay Buchholz. Another Sox pitching prospect, Justin Masterson, almost certainly was a player the Twins wanted. A third option for Smith is to hold onto Santana until the July trading deadline and reopen the bidding then. But for all the apparent lack of movement on a deal, there was an air of expectancy that something might transpire either late last night or by morning. While fan chat boards and a Boston.com survey indicated considerable dismay at the possibility that the Sox would part with Ellsbury, baseball executives informally polled here thought the Sox should proceed with a deal for Santana, even if it cost them both Ellsbury and Lester. They likened it to the trade made 10 years ago by former Sox GM Dan Duquette, who gave up the team's top pitching prospect, Carl Pavano, and another minor league pitcher, Tony Armas Jr., in the deal that brought Pedro Martínez to the Red Sox. Two winters ago, while Epstein was on hiatus, the Sox gave up the organization's prized prospect, Hanley Ramirez, and pitching prospects in the deal that netted them 20-game winner Josh Beckett and third baseman Mike Lowell, MVP of the 2007 World Series. The Yankees, even with lefthander Andy Pettitte informing the club he will return for a 14th big-league season, would seem to have a greater need for Santana. Their rotation is aging and lacking a true No. 1 starter. The Sox potentially have Beckett, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Lester, Buchholz and veterans Curt Schilling and Tim Wakefield, but would become prohibitive favorites in the AL East if they added Santana, who will be 29 next season. "Obviously we've made calls and talked to a couple teams about deals, talked to a few agents," Epstein said yesterday afternoon, "but we don't have anything to show for it. That might be par for the course. It seems like everything's on a later schedule this year." The Yankees have shown a penchant already this fall for issuing an ultimatum, and not following through. Steinbrenner vowed he was through with Rodriguez when the slugging third baseman opted out of the final three years of his deal, then succumbed when Rodriguez, through an intermediary, let it be known he really did want to be a Yankee. If dawn breaks and the Yankees are still talking to the Twins, this latest line in the sand will have faded to dust. LinkObviously its pure speculation by them and you can bet the Twins will try to squeeze more out of the Yankees. I know nothing about the 2 prospects the Sox mention, but no way that Crisp and Lester are better than Hughes, Melky, and whomever.
Good, let them have him, they ask for way too much!
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YankeeBaseball
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Dec 4 2007, 10:42 AM
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Just wishin the Schmets or the Dodgers or even the Mariners would swoop in at the last minute and get this guy. Santana in BossTown is insane. :no1:
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Venom
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Dec 4 2007, 10:54 AM
Post #4
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May the Force be with you
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Everybody on earth is reporting this.
But don't worry guys, it's just a ploy! Hank Steinbrenner and the Yankees are stupid. They are bidding against themselves. :rolleyes:
Stupid assholes.
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Mantlemurcer
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Dec 4 2007, 11:17 AM
Post #5
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- Venom
- Dec 4 2007, 09:54 AM
Everybody on earth is reporting this. But don't worry guys, it's just a ploy! Hank Steinbrenner and the Yankees are stupid. They are bidding against themselves. :rolleyes:Stupid assholes.
Hank does need to stop negotiating in public.
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Mantlemurcer
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Dec 4 2007, 12:09 PM
Post #6
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If they want Kennedy, tell them to give us Neshak or Glen Perkins...fuggers.
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Bleedrngrblue
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Dec 4 2007, 12:36 PM
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Is there any fight left in the dog.....?
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- Venom
- Dec 4 2007, 10:54 AM
Everybody on earth is reporting this. But don't worry guys, it's just a ploy! Hank Steinbrenner and the Yankees are stupid. They are bidding against themselves. :rolleyes:Stupid assholes.
If they were stupid they would have pulled the trigger on a deal by now.
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Yanks473
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Dec 4 2007, 01:09 PM
Post #8
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And the Band played on......
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Let the Twins trade for Lester. It'll be fun laughing at them while Lester barely wins 13 games for them and Hughes ends up being a perrenial Cy Young contender.
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Mantlemurcer
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Dec 4 2007, 01:33 PM
Post #9
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If Boston gets Johan Santana for Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Justin Masterson and Jed Lowrie, that is a steal.
Keep in mind that Crisp is owed $10 million (serious money for the tightwad Twins) and isn’t all that good. Lester is a solid No. 3 starter perhaps but does not have near the upside of Phil Hughes. Masterson is a big guy who had only 115 strikeouts in 153 minor-league innings last season. Lowrie is a 6-foot infielder who just hit .163 in the Arizona Fall League but is considered a good prospect.
Boston has no use for Crisp whatsoever and little use for Lowrie. Lester is a loss but Clay Buchholz is better.
PeteAbe
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BleacherCreature
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Dec 4 2007, 02:07 PM
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I think Hughes showed enough to think that he can win 16-20 games a year consistantly for the Yankees....So maybe in the regular season him / Santana may not be a push, but not enough of a difference to give up prize prospects and 25 million a year...As for the posteseason, Santana is 1-3 in 5 starts with an ERA of 3.97...Certainly nothing scary there, and he hasnt been able to be a horse and get his team deep which is what you need to get for 25 million a year...I think 4 postseasons is enough of an example to know what you have..
Let him go to the Sawx....Stay the course with the kids, other guys will be available sooner or later if we need them...I have no issue with Santana going to Chowdatown...I like our chances as is...
Pull the plug on this sh*t, let the sox overpay and give up top shelf recruits, focus on Bedard, Haren, or Sabathia with a Kennedy / prospects package and lets move on...
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Mantlemurcer
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Dec 4 2007, 02:10 PM
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Heyman is saying the Red Sox are expected to add more prospects.
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yankeecaptain15
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Dec 4 2007, 03:16 PM
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- BleacherCreature
- Dec 4 2007, 01:07 PM
I think Hughes showed enough to think that he can win 16-20 games a year consistantly for the Yankees....So maybe in the regular season him / Santana may not be a push, but not enough of a difference to give up prize prospects and 25 million a year...As for the posteseason, Santana is 1-3 in 5 starts with an ERA of 3.97...Certainly nothing scary there, and he hasnt been able to be a horse and get his team deep which is what you need to get for 25 million a year...I think 4 postseasons is enough of an example to know what you have..
Let him go to the Sawx....Stay the course with the kids, other guys will be available sooner or later if we need them...I have no issue with Santana going to Chowdatown...I like our chances as is...
Pull the plug on this sh*t, let the sox overpay and give up top shelf recruits, focus on Bedard, Haren, or Sabathia with a Kennedy / prospects package and lets move on...
And if I'm not mistaken, doesn't Yohan have a terrible ERA in Fenway?
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rsj23terp
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Dec 4 2007, 03:19 PM
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- yankeecaptain15
- Dec 4 2007, 02:16 PM
And if I'm not mistaken, doesn't Yohan have a terrible ERA in Fenway?
Pretty much everybody does, but a lefthanded pitcher whose primary out pitch is a changeup is going to give up a lot of HR over that monster.
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Mantlemurcer
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Dec 4 2007, 03:38 PM
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From PeteAbe:
Just spoke to a Yankees Exec Who Can Be Trusted and learned this:
The YEWCBT said that Brian Cashman has made his final offer and will not toss in Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne or Austin Jackson. That would seem to favor the Red Sox but the Dodgers and Angels are now getting in the mix with the Yankees on the outskirts.
This hillbilly nightmare The Winter Meetings end on Thursday morning, so there is little chance that Santana will be officially traded by then given that a contract extension would have to be negotiated.
The Yankees, for all of the deadline talk, remain open to the Twins coming back to them. But the Twins seem to love Jon Lester and aren’t crazy about Melky Cabrera.
Yankees fans in general put too much value on Cabrera. He’s a nice player but he has a career OPS of .728. Outside of his arm, he’s at best an average center fielder. I think he’s fine with the Yankees hitting eighth or ninth. But it’s not like he’s a budding star.
These GMs get paid to evaluate talent. If Minnesota likes Boston’s package, that is their choice.
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YankeeBaseball
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Dec 4 2007, 04:11 PM
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- Mantlemurcer
- Dec 4 2007, 03:38 PM
From PeteAbe:
Just spoke to a Yankees Exec Who Can Be Trusted and learned this:
The YEWCBT said that Brian Cashman has made his final offer and will not toss in Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne or Austin Jackson. That would seem to favor the Red Sox but the Dodgers and Angels are now getting in the mix with the Yankees on the outskirts.
This hillbilly nightmare The Winter Meetings end on Thursday morning, so there is little chance that Santana will be officially traded by then given that a contract extension would have to be negotiated.
The Yankees, for all of the deadline talk, remain open to the Twins coming back to them. But the Twins seem to love Jon Lester and aren’t crazy about Melky Cabrera.
Yankees fans in general put too much value on Cabrera. He’s a nice player but he has a career OPS of .728. Outside of his arm, he’s at best an average center fielder. I think he’s fine with the Yankees hitting eighth or ninth. But it’s not like he’s a budding star.
These GMs get paid to evaluate talent. If Minnesota likes Boston’s package, that is their choice.
Agreed, Melky's got a lot of enthusiasm and a strong arm, but otherwise is nothing that special. But Hughes is certainly a much better prospect than Lester. I'm surprised they're probably going with Boston. Considering the Twins traded away Garza, you'd think they'd want to obtain the best pitcher available and that clearly is Hughes.
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YankeeBaseball
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Dec 4 2007, 04:14 PM
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This just from Gammons:
The Twins and Red Sox are supposed to meet this afternoon to continue discussions on the Johan Santana deal. Sources indicate the Twins are still trying to decide between a 3-for-1 trade for center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, infielder Jed Lowrie and pitching prospect Justin Masterson and a 4-for-1 swap that substitutes lefty starter Jon Lester and center fielder Coco Crisp for Ellsbury.
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Bleedrngrblue
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Dec 4 2007, 04:22 PM
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Is there any fight left in the dog.....?
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- Dec 4 2007, 04:14 PM
This just from Gammons:
The Twins and Red Sox are supposed to meet this afternoon to continue discussions on the Johan Santana deal. Sources indicate the Twins are still trying to decide between a 3-for-1 trade for center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, infielder Jed Lowrie and pitching prospect Justin Masterson and a 4-for-1 swap that substitutes lefty starter Jon Lester and center fielder Coco Crisp for Ellsbury.
What a bunch of assholes! I hope it all blows up in their faces. Ellsbury is way overrated and Lester is NOTHING special. Coco crisp is a really bad cereal and an even worse trade for Santana
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Mantlemurcer
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Dec 4 2007, 05:27 PM
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According to a source familiar with the negotiations the Twins have told they want to complete the Johan Santana deal by the end of today.
Clearly trying to get the Yankees to top the Sox offer.
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Venom
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Dec 4 2007, 05:34 PM
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May the Force be with you
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- Mantlemurcer,Dec 4 2007
- 04:27 PM
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According to a source familiar with the negotiations the Twins have told they want to complete the Johan Santana deal by the end of today.
Clearly trying to get the Yankees to top the Sox offer.
Shut up, please. Stop with the f*cking conspiracy theories.
First I have to hear for weeks that the Sox aren't getting him, they aren't serious, they are just doing this to drive up the price, and all that other STUPIDITY coming out of people. Now you think this is all being done so that the Twins can squeeze 1 more player out of the Yankees? Enough!
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Mantlemurcer
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Dec 4 2007, 05:45 PM
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- Venom,Dec 4 2007
- 04:34 PM
- Mantlemurcer,Dec 4 2007
- 04:27 PM
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According to a source familiar with the negotiations the Twins have told they want to complete the Johan Santana deal by the end of today.
Clearly trying to get the Yankees to top the Sox offer.
Shut up, please. Stop with the f*cking conspiracy theories. First I have to hear for weeks that the Sox aren't getting him, they aren't serious, they are just doing this to drive up the price, and all that other STUPIDITY coming out of people. Now you think this is all being done so that the Twins can squeeze 1 more player out of the Yankees? Enough!
Why don't you shut the f*ck up asshole???
It's not a conspiracy theory..this is what teams do. They try to get the best offer and that means saying sh*t like this. Get a clue a-hole.
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BleacherCreature
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Dec 4 2007, 05:51 PM
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MM I think you need to get away from the computer for a while....You are glued to that thing like Strider after finding a new Porn site featuring 300 pound black bitches doing anal.
:evilgrin:
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Venom
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Dec 4 2007, 05:58 PM
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May the Force be with you
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- Mantlemurcer,Dec 4 2007
- 04:45 PM
- Venom,Dec 4 2007
- 04:34 PM
- Mantlemurcer,Dec 4 2007
- 04:27 PM
- Quote:
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According to a source familiar with the negotiations the Twins have told they want to complete the Johan Santana deal by the end of today.
Clearly trying to get the Yankees to top the Sox offer.
Shut up, please. Stop with the f*cking conspiracy theories. First I have to hear for weeks that the Sox aren't getting him, they aren't serious, they are just doing this to drive up the price, and all that other STUPIDITY coming out of people. Now you think this is all being done so that the Twins can squeeze 1 more player out of the Yankees? Enough!
Why don't you shut the f*ck up asshole??? It's not a conspiracy theory..this is what teams do. They try to get the best offer and that means saying sh*t like this. Get a clue a-hole.
MM isn't happy!!!
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Mantlemurcer
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Dec 4 2007, 05:58 PM
Post #23
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- BleacherCreature
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MM I think you need to get away from the computer for a while....You are glued to that thing like Strider after finding a new Porn site featuring 300 pound black bitches doing anal. :evilgrin:
Nothing compares to that ;)
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Mantlemurcer
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Dec 4 2007, 06:08 PM
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LOL, Stark completely contradicts Mr. Red Sox (who is probably right)...
The Twins and Angels continue to talk about a Johan Santana trade. Many of the same players mentioned in the Miguel Cabrera sweepstakes -- Howie Kendrick, Brandan Wood, Nick Adenhart, and possibly Jeff Mathis or Reggie Willits -- would be included in a package for Santana.
It is believed that the Angels haven't talked with the Marlins since last night, and Miguel Cabrera is off their radar screen -- at least for now.
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YankeeBaseball
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Dec 4 2007, 07:43 PM
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- Mantlemurcer
- Dec 4 2007, 06:08 PM
The Twins and Angels continue to talk about a Johan Santana trade. Many of the same players mentioned in the Miguel Cabrera sweepstakes -- Howie Kendrick, Brandan Wood, Nick Adenhart, and possibly Jeff Mathis or Reggie Willits -- would be included in a package for Santana.
It is believed that the Angels haven't talked with the Marlins since last night, and Miguel Cabrera is off their radar screen -- at least for now.
:please: Angels GM Tony Reagins just told reporters that there was no truth to Angels being involved in Johan Santana negotiations. Reagins said he never talked to Twins.
Were'd ya get this batch of bogus info MM? No dought you heard it down at the Shady Pines Rest Home... :smirk:
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Mantlemurcer
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Dec 4 2007, 07:57 PM
Post #26
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- YankeeBaseball
- Dec 4 2007, 06:43 PM
- Mantlemurcer
- Dec 4 2007, 06:08 PM
The Twins and Angels continue to talk about a Johan Santana trade. Many of the same players mentioned in the Miguel Cabrera sweepstakes -- Howie Kendrick, Brandan Wood, Nick Adenhart, and possibly Jeff Mathis or Reggie Willits -- would be included in a package for Santana.
It is believed that the Angels haven't talked with the Marlins since last night, and Miguel Cabrera is off their radar screen -- at least for now.
:please: Angels GM Tony Reagins just told reporters that there was no truth to Angels being involved in Johan Santana negotiations. Reagins said he never talked to Twins. Were'd ya get this batch of bogus info MM? No dought you heard it down at the Shady Pines Rest Home... :smirk:
I just told ya it was Jayson Stark and I didn't believe ya..ya old coot.
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ES03
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Dec 4 2007, 08:52 PM
Post #27
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- Bleedrngrblue
- Dec 4 2007, 04:22 PM
- YankeeBaseball
- Dec 4 2007, 04:14 PM
This just from Gammons:
The Twins and Red Sox are supposed to meet this afternoon to continue discussions on the Johan Santana deal. Sources indicate the Twins are still trying to decide between a 3-for-1 trade for center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, infielder Jed Lowrie and pitching prospect Justin Masterson and a 4-for-1 swap that substitutes lefty starter Jon Lester and center fielder Coco Crisp for Ellsbury.
What a bunch of assholes! I hope it all blows up in their faces. Ellsbury is way overrated and Lester is NOTHING special. Coco crisp is a really bad cereal and an even worse trade for Santana
Elsbury is not overrated...he's the real deal
Lester, however, is overrated.
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Gategem
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Dec 4 2007, 08:53 PM
Post #28
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Member In Exile
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According to ESPN Radio’s Andrew Marchand, the Yankees have officially told reporters that they are ‘out of the market,’ for Twins LHP Johan Santana.
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ES03
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Dec 4 2007, 08:55 PM
Post #29
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- Gategem
- Dec 4 2007, 08:53 PM
According to ESPN Radio’s Andrew Marchand, the Yankees have officially told reporters that they are ‘out of the market,’ for Twins LHP Johan Santana.
Good. :rock:
Phil Hughes dominance for 15 years baby! :rock:
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Bleedrngrblue
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Dec 4 2007, 08:55 PM
Post #30
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Is there any fight left in the dog.....?
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- ES03
- Dec 4 2007, 08:52 PM
- Bleedrngrblue
- Dec 4 2007, 04:22 PM
- YankeeBaseball
- Dec 4 2007, 04:14 PM
This just from Gammons:
The Twins and Red Sox are supposed to meet this afternoon to continue discussions on the Johan Santana deal. Sources indicate the Twins are still trying to decide between a 3-for-1 trade for center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, infielder Jed Lowrie and pitching prospect Justin Masterson and a 4-for-1 swap that substitutes lefty starter Jon Lester and center fielder Coco Crisp for Ellsbury.
What a bunch of assholes! I hope it all blows up in their faces. Ellsbury is way overrated and Lester is NOTHING special. Coco crisp is a really bad cereal and an even worse trade for Santana
Elsbury is not overrated...he's the real deal Lester, however, is overrated.
We'll see! You wanna tell me a guy who has 33 games MLB experience isn't overrated...who are you Houdini?
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