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Goose Gossage needs to shut the hell up already; Goose on Joba
Topic Started: Oct 14 2007, 01:50 PM (153 Views)
HomieYank
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“I really don’t see how they can think about making him a starter after what we’ve seen. You can find starters — I know they have other young kids — but how are you going to find another character like him? How are you going to replace him? Before he came up, those setup guys were killing them.”
You can find starters?? What the hell is he talking about? He is flat out saying that its harder to find a good reliever than a good starter. Is he high? He needs to stop licking his own nuts already. He was a closer because he couldn't be a starting pitcher, just like every other closer ever. Joba does not fall into that category yet. Enough Goose, shut up. Also what the hell does Joba being a character have to do with anything?

As a player he was the man. Completely dominant and reliable, but between his constant bitching about how he should be in the Hall of Fame, stating that Mariano Rivera doesn't compare to him, and now saying that closers are more important than starters because he was one....The guy needs to shut the hell up and go fishing or something.
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Strider
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:clap: Met him, and he's a nice guy, but I've thought that for a while. Every time he's asked about a great modern reliever, he goes into this 3-inning sh*t and how what they do is so much easier than what he did. It probably makes him sick that Eckersley, whose ERA was 1/2 run higher than his, made the Hall and he still ain't in, and he lets that dominate his thoughts on everything. Bitter bitch.

And I agree with you about starters being more important than relievers. And sh*t, Joba wouldn't even be the closer. I've long disagreed with people who said, "Mariano has been the most important Yankee since 1996." I say that's bullshit. He pitches 1 or 2 innings, and that's IF the team had the lead or is tied late. You gotta get and maintain the lead first, before he's even a factor in the game. People overrate late-game situations because that's when they're most tense, but this ain't the NBA. Most games aren't decided in the 9th inning. Most saves aren't blown (they're not, it's just that people remember when they are), so the first 6-7 innings is when the game is decided. A good starter does more for your team than a great reliever.

Oh, and the fact that Joba's a character (is he?) matters because Goose had a silly mustache and Joba wears Buffalo hide and feathers. That has to count for something.
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HomieYank
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Strider
Oct 14 2007, 01:50 PM
:clap:  Met him, and he's a nice guy, but I've thought that for a while. Every time he's asked about a great modern reliever, he goes into this 3-inning sh*t and how what they do is so much easier than what he did. It probably makes him sick that Eckersley, whose ERA was 1/2 run higher than his, made the Hall and he still ain't in, and he lets that dominate his thoughts on everything. Bitter bitch.

And I agree with you about starters being more important than relievers. And sh*t, Joba wouldn't even be the closer. I've long disagreed with people who said, "Mariano has been the most important Yankee since 1996." I say that's bullshit. He pitches 1 or 2 innings, and that's IF the team had the lead or is tied late. You gotta get and maintain the lead first, before he's even a factor in the game. People overrate late-game situations because that's when they're most tense, but this ain't the NBA. Most games aren't decided in the 9th inning. Most saves aren't blown (they're not, it's just that people remember when they are), so the first 6-7 innings is when the game is decided. A good starter does more for your team than a great reliever.

Oh, and the fact that Joba's a character (is he?) matters because Goose had a silly mustache and Joba wears Buffalo hide and feathers. That has to count for something.

I've heard he's a great guy too, and I'm sure he is, but he's annoying.

I understand that Sutter is in so he should be, but I also understand that him and every other reliever are lucky to even be getting consideration for the Hall.

I understand that he threw more innings than Mo, I also understand that he faced easier lineups. There is really no other way to say it. Hitters flat out weren't as good when Goose pitched, mostly because they weren't cheating and played in larger ballparks. I also understand that Goose had inferior post season numbers to Mo including a 4.91 era in the ALDS.

I understsnd that he and Mariano Rivera were very important to the Yankees winning championships, but I also understand, and I can't stress this enough, that THEY WERE BOTH CLOSERS BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T GOOD ENOUGH TO BE #4 STARTERS!

Just shut up so I can continue respecting you. He's like the little leaguer who thinks he is the leagues most important player for stupid reasons that his dad feeds him.(I back up the firstbaseman from right field on groundball outs. Thats HUGE!!) He's an old man, he's supposed to have perspective by now.
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Grandy4MVP
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Joba will be the closer when Mo sings a 4 year 60 dollar contract with the Muets. :peace:
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Big_Lou
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I guess i'm one of the few who feels Joba should remain the set up man.
2008 rotation may not be what it should be, but Seriously...besides Mo, who's out there in the pen who doesn't suck balls?

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15always
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Nope not the only one...

Joba should stay in the pen and then take over for Mo like Mo did way back when. I do agree a lights out closer is harder to find than a very good starter and there is no proof that Joba can be an Ace starter or even very good as a starter in the big leagues.
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Big_Lou
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15always
Oct 14 2007, 06:08 PM
Nope not the only one...

Joba should stay in the pen and then take over for Mo like Mo.  I do agree a lights out closer is harder to find than a very good starter and there is no proof that Joba can be an Ace starter or even very good as a starter in the big leagues.

Yanks have a couple of young starters, but besides Mo there's nobody in the pen.
Putting Joba in the starting rotataion will only make the bullpen worse, who's gonna set up? Farsworthless? :crybaby:
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moomoo24
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Have to get the bullpen the lead first. We've got some young arms like Veras, Ohlendorf, and Horne who could be major contributors to the bullpen.
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Yanksfan03
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moomoo24
Oct 14 2007, 07:12 PM
Have to get the bullpen the lead first.  We've got some young arms like Veras, Ohlendorf, and Horne who could be major contributors to the bullpen.

Couldn't agree more. A great bullpen is very important but I'll take a lights-out starting pitcher any day of the week over anything else.

Mike Vaccaro wrote a great article about this that was in yesterday's Post.


Vaccaro
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HomieYank
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Rivera was a set up man in 96 and a closer the rest of his life because he could not be a starting pitcher. Joba has not shown that he can't start so why limit him to 60-70 innings a season when you can eventually have him for 220 innings a season? It doesn't make sense to waste those additional 150 innings on lessor pitchers. If he starts and fails then fine, do what you gotta do. Until then it just wouldn't make sense. No current closers...no...no closer I can ever think of has had the ability to be an ace starting pitcher. Joba has two plus plus pitches, a third plus pitch(at times), and a fourth supposed ML average pitch. You just don't waste that in the pen. Nardi Contreras and probably every pitching coach and GM in baseball agrees with me for what thats worth.

Lights out relievers come out of nowhere all the time. Thats extreemly rare with starting pitchers.
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Strider
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Yanksfan03
Oct 14 2007, 08:15 PM
moomoo24
Oct 14 2007, 07:12 PM
Have to get the bullpen the lead first.  We've got some young arms like Veras, Ohlendorf, and Horne who could be major contributors to the bullpen.

Couldn't agree more. A great bullpen is very important but I'll take a lights-out starting pitcher any day of the week over anything else.

Mike Vaccaro wrote a great article about this that was in yesterday's Post.


Vaccaro

Good spot. I'd seen it online but didn't bother to read it. Once again, Vaccaro spits that real sh*t.

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Right now, it's about value. And there is no question that a drop-dead closer - the kind Rivera has been since 1997 - is a precious commodity. But just think: How much did having Rivera lurking help the Yankees this year when Chien-Ming Wang - their ace, small a - failed twice to get out of the fifth inning? How much did it help the Mets having Billy Wagner two Sundays ago when Tom Glavine never got out of the first? Last night Papelbon took the night off primarily because Beckett didn't.
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Yanksfan03
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The only reason I pick up the Post these days is to read Vaccaro's stuff. He's the only one who tells it like it is.
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HomieYank
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This is really only an issue with a small % (not that that means those people are wrong) of fans and a retired reliever who's knowledge of the game is completely centered around himself.
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Yanks473
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Let Gossage talk. Hank Steinbrenner has said Joba will start the year in the rotation.
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HomieYank
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Yanks473
Oct 14 2007, 08:22 PM
Let Gossage talk. Hank Steinbrenner has said Joba will start the year in the rotation.

Yeah. You're right.
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15always
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HomieYank
Oct 14 2007, 07:49 PM


Lights out relievers come out of nowhere all the time. Thats extreemly rare with starting pitchers.

What if Mo doesn't sign??? Then what? Who closes? Who are you signing? Gagne can't cut it obviously in the American League so who are you signing that is lights out. I don't agree that lights out closers come out of no where all the time. If this were true our bullpen would not have been as bad as it was.

I do understand what you're saying and part of me does agree. IF he can cut it as a starter and is extremely effective as a starter ~ that could be the Ace the Yankees have lacked the last few years.
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HomieYank
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15always
Oct 14 2007, 09:20 PM
HomieYank
Oct 14 2007, 07:49 PM


Lights out relievers come out of nowhere all the time.  Thats extreemly rare with starting pitchers.

What if Mo doesn't sign??? Then what? Who closes? Who are you signing? Gagne can't cut it obviously in the American League so who are you signing that is lights out. I don't agree that lights out closers come out of no where all the time. If this were true our bullpen would not have been as bad as it was.

I do understand what you're saying and part of me does agree. IF he can cut it as a starter and is extremely effective as a starter ~ that could be the Ace the Yankees have lacked the last few years.

Mo not signing is a completetly different scenerio. If Mo doesn't sign then Joba pretty much has to be the closer until a replacement is available. That replacement may be Alan Horne or Huston Street this year, or it may be a K-Rod, Joe Nathan, Humberto Sanchez or Mark Melancoln next year. Either way the Yankees are best off with Joba as a starter IF possible. I agree with you though. If Mo walks then I'm not giving the job to a Fransisco Cordero. Basically if Mo leaves the Yankees are pretty F'ed

As for lights out closers coming out of nowhere I'm sure I can come up with a nice little list for you. ;)
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15always
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Homie don't get me wrong... Good closers come out of no where but Mo's don't come out of nowhere. What I mean is Mo has been consistently lights out (with very few glitches) for years and years now. That lights out consistency is rare. Take Gagne who at one time some argued was better than Mo. Better my ass.... Mo is the standard for lights out closers... Joba has that kind of stuff.
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HomieYank
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15always
Oct 14 2007, 09:35 PM
Homie don't get me wrong... Good closers come out of no where but Mo's don't come out of nowhere. What I mean is Mo has been consistently lights out (with very few glitches) for years and years now. That lights out consistency is rare. Take Gagne who at one time some argued was better than Mo. Better my ass.... Mo is the standard for lights out closers... Joba has that kind of stuff.

If you are waiting for another Mo you are going to be dissapointed. The Blue Jays can make Halladay their closer tomorrow. The Fathers can make Peavy their closer tomorow. The Mariners or D-Backs could have made Randy Johnson their closer when he was dominating. Roger Clemens even could have closed. It would have been a waste to have any one of them in the Pen and there is STILL a VERY slim chance any one of them would have Mariano Rivera like success.
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HomieYank
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The only post season series in which Mariano Rivera surrendered more than 1 earned run was the 2000 WS against the Mets. He gave up 2 earned runs. He's pitched in 26 post season series'. That is extreemly unlikely to ever happen again.
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ONE-BUY-ONE
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Strider
Oct 14 2007, 01:50 PM
:clap: Met him, and he's a nice guy, but I've thought that for a while. Every time he's asked about a great modern reliever, he goes into this 3-inning sh*t and how what they do is so much easier than what he did. It probably makes him sick that Eckersley, whose ERA was 1/2 run higher than his, made the Hall and he still ain't in, and he lets that dominate his thoughts on everything. Bitter bitch.

And I agree with you about starters being more important than relievers. And sh*t, Joba wouldn't even be the closer. I've long disagreed with people who said, "Mariano has been the most important Yankee since 1996." I say that's bullshit. He pitches 1 or 2 innings, and that's IF the team had the lead or is tied late. You gotta get and maintain the lead first, before he's even a factor in the game. People overrate late-game situations because that's when they're most tense, but this ain't the NBA. Most games aren't decided in the 9th inning. Most saves aren't blown (they're not, it's just that people remember when they are), so the first 6-7 innings is when the game is decided. A good starter does more for your team than a great reliever.

Oh, and the fact that Joba's a character (is he?) matters because Goose had a silly mustache and Joba wears Buffalo hide and feathers. That has to count for something.

TOTALLY AGREE. YANKEES NEED 2 STARTERS THAT CAN DO WHAT PECKET CAN DO....especially in a short series, if you get me drift.... ;)
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